How to get my players engaged.

[Humble Master]

So, a problem I have realized I have in my D&D campaign is my player don't seem to be all that focused on the game itself. They will get into conversations that have nothing to do with the game itself, run off to nap some NERF blasters ect. I know I can't control them, but I feel like I need to find way to make my campaign more engaging. Right now, the campaign has basically been dungeon crawl after dungeon crawl with a light story of cultist trying to summon an army of demons to facilitate the PC's moving from dungeon to dungeon. I was thinking that maybe if I made the story more complex it might get the players more involved, but I'm not sure how to create a complex story when I don't know what the PC's are going to do next.
I would appreciate any help you can offer in way to make my D&D campaign more engaging.

[Zanos]

Giving each person's character a personal motivation to care about what's going on is probably a good start. If you don't already have an at least somewhat detailed background for each character, maybe get one. Throw in some hooks so that every character is engaged.

Do the players feel like they're being railroaded, or do you feel like you're railroading them? I feel that campaigns typically work better if you let the characters do what they want, and let whatever overarching plot you may or may not have develop around them.

[Blackjackg]

This is just a guess, but based on what you've said about the campaign so far, I wonder if it might be a little too repetitious. Dungeon crawls are fun, but most of the time they only allow for a limited range of roleplaying. Maybe try and get them involved with a city adventure or something a little more character-based. It doesn't even need to be a big meta-plot issue, just a mystery or intrigue of some sort that can't be solved with swords and fireballs. If all goes well, it might give them a little steam to stay involved when you go back to dungeon-crawling, and maybe even give you the beginnings of a metaplot that will keep them interested.

This is in addition to everything Zanos said, of course.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Do they start out interested and disengage as the game goes on, or do they start out distracted and never entirely focus?

If the former... approach your players individually between games and say something along the lines of "hey, I've noticed that you guys don't seem too interested in the game; is there anything that you'd like to see that I'm not providing?" Something along those lines-- get a sense of what they want. Also, try to make fights faster-- if it takes thirty minutes to get around to their turn again, it's no wonder they're getting distracted.

If the latter... your players may just want to hang out, and are using the game as an excuse to do so. Or they may want to game, but also be excited to see each other. Try to plan some pre-game social time-- "we'll meet at 6 for pizza, then head back to my place afterwards to start rolling dice."

[ArcturusV]

It sounds to me like you don't really have fleshed out characters for the PCs. I say that only because I tend to find it's pretty easy to figure out what players are generally going to do if I have a short little Character History section from them in some regard. If your party fighter is someone who is the illegitimate heir of Duke Fatass, who's mother was a scullery maid and run out of town when the Lady Fatass found out about her... then your player probably is interested in A) Punching Duke/Lady Fatass square in the nuts/taco, B) Claiming his "birthright" as the eldest son of the duke. And so on and so forth. When people tell you about their character's history, they are, consciously or not, telling you about where they want the character to go as well.

So if you haven't, just ask people to come up with say, 2 paragraphs of "Character History" for each of their characters. Don't need a novel, just an idea of where they come from, what is important to them, why they are being a Fighter/Wizard/Rogue/Holy Roller, etc. For bonus points ask them for an Ally and an Enemy. The ally doesn't need to be like a hireling or a cohort, just someone who's in good terms with the PC who may help them out to the limits of their abilities. I mean the Commoner 1 mother of the illegitimate fighter from before probably isn't going to go slaying ogres side by side with her son... but can give him a place to crash and hide out, help him out with clothes, meals, etc, maybe do some simple undercover work "I need to watch X location but they know about me, can you go over there and keep an eye on them for a few hours, tell me if person X or Y comes or leaves?"

And then just having an enemy tells you instantly what sort of encounters they're interested in. They might list as an enemy something that feeds into your plot like "The demon Yegoth who despoiled and corrupted the Temple of ______ 2 centuries ago and is the enemy of all faithful and a mark of shame that our monks fell to her influence". So cool, he likes where he's going and you have an NPC enemy you can throw in now. Or maybe he has listed as an enemy something like Duke Fatass, who isn't a swordsman but a ruler and politician, who will throw challenges of intrigue and social control over the character rather than a stand up fight. Cool, he wants more political/social plots, now you know. He wants an enemy that he theoretically could just go up and murder, because he's an Aristocrat 4 or something and only has 20 HP... but shouldn't.

Plus side? If they get into this, which they might, it instantly gives you about a half a dozen, if not more, potential plot hooks that require almost minimal work on your part. They came up with most of the important locations, plot points, figures, etc. All you really do is gotta stat it out. Heck, their history will even have the plot hooks in it about 80% of the time. And since it was their idea, they'll be excited, and that excitement often carries to the rest of the team.

[Humble Master]

All very good ideas, thank you everyone.

There personal motivation thing is something I definitely need to work on. Right now, the only motivation they have had is "hey, these cultists are evil. We are good, and they have treasure. Lets go whack them!"

As for railroading I don't really know. Maybe I am railroading a little bit because I have been giving pretty obvious hooks at the end of each dungeon that lead to the next but the players seem to go along with it. I'll talk with them and ask them what they think.

I've tried to vary things up a bit. I've done a wilderness adventure were I mapped out a to scale forest, placed "encounter zones" and had the PCs wander through it looking for a black market arms dealer. I've also done an alley fight scenario with the PC's having to deal with snipers and cutthroats coming behind them and backstabbing them. Still, I will try and put in more RP opportunities.

I really like the idea of pre-game social time, I think it would help a lot. Also, what are some ideas for making combat go faster?

In fact, they have very fleshed out characters. I even have adventures that will be based around their characters for latter. One is going to return the Eternal Blades to their former glory and have to face off against an undead Dragon monstrosity to do so. One will get vengeance against an Illithid necromancer who destroyed his hometown and killed his family. One will journey back to their desert homeland and find they fulfill a prophecy about returning an ancient scorpion race to power. And finally one is a renegade from the Astral Isles who will have to return home and defend it from the Church of Alm. The problem, is all of those need to be pretty high level for it to work, so I'm kind of playing the waiting game until I can start up these bigger, world changing plots.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm. I mean they "sound" like high level adventures, but you can probably start feeding them these tidbits long before they get there. Just like you can have a campaign where the BBEG is level 14 when you first hear about him, and you're level 3. Sure, you're not going to run off and stab them in the face right away, but you can still act to try to foil that villain, and often in ways beyond "Go beg someone who's high level to kick his ass for you".

So I'd probably throw them a bone in the meantime. Your desert dweller will find some odd totems of the Scorpion People in the cultist relics. What does this mean? Is it a clue about their return? Do these demons have some knowledge (Or something to do with) their disappearance, and possibly a clue to their return?

I mean I might be wrong again. But just tossing them those little bits from time to time helps. Lets them know you haven't forgotten about what they "really want to do", and are building up to it.

Might be a factor as well of course. Hard to say without being there. I know I've had goals like... Reman Valarius who wanted to create a world spanning Empire in his name. Something that honestly he probably should have been level 12-15 before he was doing. But I had my boots on the ground, setting up the work for that eventual end state from level 1 onwards. Building up contacts, gaining influence in key regions, starting his propaganda machine, blurring the lines between nations as he helped forge temporary alliances, etc. Most of what interested me that game, well other than punking out the guy with blatantly loaded dice, was building that Imperial Dream, and the things I set up as a player to pursue it more than the plot the DM originally fed me.

So they can do both. They can do the plot you feed them to gain levels, experience, treasure, etc. But what drives them isn't the plot you feed them but the tidbits of other plot that you sprinkle through there.

I dunno... trying to be helpful. Not sure if I got a good read on things.

[Humble Master]

They are actually only level 3. Still, I love your idea of giving them little clues as to what's to come. I'm totally using the whole "scorpion relic in the Cultist's vault" thing.

[Gavinfoxx]

If you want to run a high level adventure, then, um, start the group at high level??

[Humble Master]

If you want to run a high level adventure, then, um, start the group at high level?? It's not that I want to just do a high level adventure, it's that, right now, the stories I have for the characters are rather high level. The player actually wrote that an Illithid necromancer killed his family and burned his village.

[ArcturusV]

Hey, I'm all for organic character growth myself. I find characters end up a lot more interesting when they've grown from level 1-10 than if they just started at 10. Particularly you can see an evolution of the character in gear, feats, and skills that they would not have picked if they just popped up at level 10.

So there's value in "grinding out" the "crappy levels". Depending on your group. Particularly if they only ever play high levels, being at a low level gives them a fresh perspective that can grab their attention. When they realize all their "go to" options and abilities aren't actually available it forces them to think in a new way.

That said, that's the other, somewhat cheesy, way that you can grab their attention back. Do something to fundamentally alter how they think about the game. Usually this is MacGuffin territory... where say, one encounter a high priest of the cultists curses one character. That curse being custom, powerful, and demon spawned is a little harsher than a book standard -6 to a check. Might even be a double edged sword as curses in stories tend to be. Curse gives them a few odd SLAs, but a penalty to say, saves versus X effects or something. Give them custom options like the ability to embrace the curse when they level up for more power... and more weaknesses, etc.

It's a lot of homebrew work. But knowing that the standard "formula" for their characters and how they want to grow is being altered can draw their attention.

But it's another thing I've done to focus someone's attention during a game.

[Gavinfoxx]

It sounds like, based on what they wrote, that they want to play a high level game. Just saying.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I also want to note (as DM of a large group) that you absolutely can control them. The helpful advice I can give on this end (as an Elementary Education major) is to look up classroom management strategies and techniques--yes, they will work on your group, too. I devised a set of hand gestures that I have assigned specific meanings that the rest of the group uses as well. If the group is getting too off-task, and has stopped engaging at a point in time when engagement in the game is kind of important for game feel or forward progression, or someone is obviously being talked over and doesn't feel included, I clap my hands once, and hold them pressed together before me. When a player notices I have clapped my hands together, they stop talking and do the same (sometimes dropping whatever they were doing with their own hands). I hold my hands in place until everyone else at the table has done the same, and nobody is talking, and then I release them by saying "Ninja!" (This is based off of an outdoor game we play, which begins with everyone placing their hands in prayer fashion. Once everyone has their hands clasped in this form, somebody shouts "Ninja!" and everyone strikes a fighting stance. Then, the participants take turns trying to strike at the hands of the other players to knock them out, starting with the person who shouted "Ninja!" first.)

I also have a set of hand gestures for players to use when they are talking or wish to talk. The first is the horns, which are used for out-of-character talk (I'm to believe this is pretty standard fare). If somebody wishes to speak as soon as the DM is finished describing something (an environment, an action, etc), they raise their hand (with, optionally, their number in the queue). If somebody wishes to interrupt the DM with a high-priority action (interrupting a character's speech to interject, for example, with some pressing matter or correction), they raise their fist in the air. This is typically done only when the player expects his action to override whatever would follow from the DM (for instance, if the party is negotiating with an enemy over a hostage, and one of the players gets fed up with the enemy and looses the arrow he had nocked in his bow, it's safe to assume negotiations have failed); if the player uses it trivially, they are barred from using it until so permitted (sometimes until the session ends). I simply refuse to acknowledge someone who is speaking out of turn without observing this protocol, or, if they are being too disruptive, bring them in with the routine in the previous paragraph.

The group is also aware that I run my table like a traditional opera: while I do have an intermission (usually for dinner), it is also the case that anybody who simply needs a break, or who is more engaged in their conversation with the person next to them than the table, can get up and leave as they please. The room next to our gaming room is always open, and people can carry on their conversations there without disrupting the people who are trying to stay engaged. During this time, their character enters "quantum space"; their character isn't targeted by anything bad, but also fails to contribute in any way. If they want to contribute to something, they need to be at the table, but that doesn't mean they can't take a break if they need one.

And yes, if your group is having problems focusing, or with joint attention, or is simply too rambunctious, then focusing their attention on the events at hand can increase their engagement; just make sure that the product you are directing them to is itself engaging, or you will quickly experience diminishing returns (at this point, you might want to call a quick break, or a session end if you need the time, so that you can plan to redirect your focus to something more engaging).

[Kane0]

I can only offer this one experience I had.

One campaign our group had been running for a couple months was getting to the point where people were focused more on the social than the game aspect. Which was fine since we're happy to do that, but the DM sat down when we were all done and said "Okay, I deliberately didn't plan anything out for tonight. You guys tell me what your characters want to do and we can make a filler session."

But it wasnt a filler session at all, of course. He made careful notes to himself about what we did and wanted to do and after that session continued on as normal. A couple sessions later he busted out those notes that he had been working on and ran with that alongside his own plans. He took the time to alter his railroads to accomodate each of our characters.

So I suppose my advice would be to sit down with your group and have a less intense, sandboxy session (but no more than the one) and take notes on it. Chances are the players will handle the engagement themselves (though it might take some encouragement) and you will end up with recharged players and a whole bunch of stuff to work with that will keep them involved.

But that depends on your group I guess.

[Morphie]

When I read the title I was about to write "If you like them then you shoulda put a ring on them", but then the urge to do it passed.

The same thing happens on my group, because each player has different things that motivate them to play. So the answer to that is to know your group and incorporate elements in your campaign that make them want to play.
If they are anything like my friends you'll probably have: 1) the guy that just wants to roll the dice, talking with the NPCs is not his thing, he just wants to try and hit things (but ironically plays a caster that ALWAYS stays in the back and never approaches the enemies in time); 2) The guy that wants to role-play every single thing he does, even if it involves buying milk, to the point that the rest of the guys just roll-eyes and check their cellphones or something while he carries it on; 3) Or the silent rules-lawyer that judges the legitimacy of the actions of the other players forgetting that he's not the DM. ; 4) Or even the guy that likes to try different things but keeps playing the same type of PC personality, regardless of stats, class and race.; 5) The guy that is always bored when the spotlight isn't on him, so he's totally absent of the action until his time to act comes, so he ends up asking "what's going on?" a great number of times.; 6) The guy that complains a lot about "keeping the game simple" but has a big problem doing anything creative/interesting when the only books allowed are the core 3.

This might seem a disfunctional group but we get along really well, although the DM sometimes has a hard time catering to everyone's motivation and to keep them on their toes with a great story that appeals to them.
In my opinion it takes a mix of combat, role-playing, good treasure distribution and rewarding of good and out-of-the-box problem-solving ideas, as well as some basic notions of group dynamics and psychology (by the DM) to make the group work as a cohesive unit. Other thing that also helps is for everyone to have some experience as a DM, that gives them a glimmer of how hard it can be to run a story and so they will have a bigger respect towards the DM when they are on the PC's side.

Just my 2 electrum pieces :smallsmile:

[Red Fel]

It's not that I want to just do a high level adventure, it's that, right now, the stories I have for the characters are rather high level. The player actually wrote that an Illithid necromancer killed his family and burned his village.

It sounds to me like the players have high hopes for their stories, but they're kind of in a holding pattern right now, waiting to be strong enough to go do their thing. It sounds like going from one dungeon to the next is just their way of passing the time until they hit the sweet spot and can bust some story-related heads.

I say, why wait?

As my good buddy Arcturus suggested, throw them a bone. But I'd do more than that.

You mention:
One is going to return the Eternal Blades to their former glory and have to face off against an undead Dragon monstrosity to do so. One will get vengeance against an Illithid necromancer who destroyed his hometown and killed his family. One will journey back to their desert homeland and find they fulfill a prophecy about returning an ancient scorpion race to power. And finally one is a renegade from the Astral Isles who will have to return home and defend it from the Church of Alm.

So what can you do for each of these that brings it closer to fruition?

Let's start with the Eternal Blade. At least, I assume he wants to PrC into the EBs, right? Well, re-read the fluff. EBs get those crazy dreams when they're young, don't they? The Blade Guide paying a visit, and all? Well, level 3 is pretty young. So start giving your EB visions. Little dream-based adventure hooks. Give him little extra-sensory moments that suggest the Blade Guide is pushing through, waiting for the EB's powers to reach fruition (read: for him to take the PrC). Suddenly, he's getting to have the cake he was saving for later, even if he can't eat it yet. It's mostly fluff, but it's the fun kind.

What about the Illithid-slayer? Well, Illithid Necromancers are known for slaughtering precisely one village and retiring, right? No, I didn't think so either. Let your party run into various undead. Low-level stupid ones, at first, but later intelligent undead. More importantly - these undead should bear signs of illithid experimentation. Make it abundantly clear that the player's village was, in essence, a testing laboratory; the necromancer is moving on to bigger and badder things, and the PCs will have a chance to clean up his messes. And as they interfere with his "experiments," he will take notice. And send meaner minions after them. You know, like a boss.

I think Arcturus has a good point about the Scorpion guy. Prophesies are funny things, and surprisingly easy to weave throughout a story. Don't just settle for the cultists, though. Give little clues everywhere. A haggard crone in the village who remarks about the player's "sting." An arachnid swarm in a cave that seems to cower away from the player. Again, little pieces of fluff that add a personal touch to the game.

As for the Astral Isles... I don't know much about that setting. But you can always have the PC find other exiles, or attempt to rescue allies in a similar situation. Drop signs of the Church of Alm's presence in a given area, set the player on edge. Give him a chance to do small acts of good for his people, before he can return as the mighty liberator.

Most importantly, give each one the chance to feel like the hero at the center of the story - because, in a way, each one is. Their epic sagas are surprisingly compatible, and will allow you to give each one a little nugget of interest, even in the same session. If you do things right, each one will walk away from a session thinking "tonight's game was all about me. Awesome!"

[Humble Master]

Thank you all so much for all of the help. I think I have found some good ways of integrating the PCs into the story more as well as find out exactly were the players want to take the story.