Item Familiar Help

[Crazy Cupcake]

I'm a little confused by Item Familiars (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm), and I was hoping that some of the more knowledgeable people around here could help me puzzle it out.

My biggest concern is with the Cantrips/Orisons and Spell Use special abilities.

I understand that a spell slot can be invested into an item familiar, but how do you invest the actual spells with which these two abilities rely on to function? Additionally, what's the point of taking Spell Use when Cantrips/Orisons seem to offer the same benefit (the ability to cast any spell invested in it) plus the ability to cast any 0th-level spell from any spell list you chose even if its master doesn't have access to it? The language is very confusing.

Edit: For example, say I'm a 10th-level Duskblade and, purely for flavor reasons, I want an item familiar in the form of a magical sword that shots lightning bolts and 0th-level cleric spells on its own accord. How do I make that happen, and what exactly am I investing?

Edit 2: And if you do invest spells into it, what happens when you lose the item familiar or its destroyed? How would, say, a Wizard or Cleric "lose" a spell (again, as opposed to a spell slot)?

Also, is the Armor, Shield, or Weapon Special Ability option really only limited to +1 enhancements or their equivalent bonuses, or does the Adding New Abilities (www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#addingNewAbilities) rule for creating magic items kick in, allowing you to upgrade the item with stacking benefits? For example, a Moderate Fortification after gaining three special abilities rather than just Light Fortification and two other minor ones?

Thanks in advance!

[Crazy Cupcake]

After doing some more research on the topic, I'm assuming the answer is basically "yes, it is limited to +1 abilities" for the second set of questions.

As for the first set, it's that pesky spell investment that really has me boggled. I've scoured all over the web for an answer to no avail; just a lot of people reminding you that it can be done, not how.

There's only two solutions I can fathom.

1. You give up a prepared slot per day of the appropriate spell level for the spell you're investing. The benefit you gain is, essentially, an unlimited number of uses of that spell per day (as there's no mention that the item familiar is limited in how often it uses the spell, only that its minimum casting time becomes a standard action). Lose the item familiar, lose the slot. Pretty straight forward, though the text makes no mention of a slot investment being involved.

2. You lose nothing by investing a spell in the item familiar, but it can only hold a single spell per time you take the ability (assuming you can take it more than once at all). This makes the special ability similar to things like spellstaff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellstaff.htm). The problem is, again, that there's no indication that the item familiar is limited in regards to how often it can cast the spell, only its minimum casting time. It also seems incompatible with the language used for Cantrips/Orisons which give a limitation on how often the 0th-level spells can be used, with no such mention for the invested spell(s) mentioned in the second sentence. And what happens if you lose the item familiar in this case? Nothing at all?

Is there some other option that I'm just not seeing? Or is the text actually quite explicit and I'm simply suffering from some kind of huge Dyslexia-based backlash?

Any constructive feedback is welcome!

[Maginomicon]

The point of the investment is to put one in, get two out. You put in a slot of your highest level and you can use that invested slot and you get a bonus invested slot two levels lower than the one you put in. With just this ability alone, the familiar can't cast from the invested slots, but you can. You use the invested slot and the bonus invested slot just like normal, the two slots just reside in the familiar (much like a memento magicka or pearl of power) for the purposes of what happens if you lose the item.

The cantrips/orisons ability is another matter. The item familiar can cast these spells on its own. It has its own set of 0-level spell slots as if it were a sorcerer of your character level, and access to all 0-levels spells on the specified spell list. Additionally, if you happen to invest a cantrip/orison into the item familiar, it can use it as if it had the spell use ability.

The spell use ability is a flat "the familiar can now use any spell in those two invested spell slots" (and has access to your spells known list if you have one for the purposes of casting from an invested slot).

So, for example, by default, a sword with the cantrips ability could cast electric jolt (a sor/wiz cantrip) on your command. If you want a more powerful lightning ability, you'd need to invest spell slots. An invested slot would have to either have the desired lightning spell assigned to them (if you're a prepared caster) or have the desired lightning spell on your spells known list (if you're a spontaneous caster).

[Crazy Cupcake]

That doesn't seem to be what the feat's description is stating. Underlined emphasis is mine.


SPELL USE
An item familiar empowered with this ability may cast any spell invested in it as a standard action (or longer, as defined by the spell’s duration) as long as it does not have an expensive material component or an XP component. The item familiar need not provide any verbal or somatic components, and it need not provide any material components that cost less than 1 gp. The item familiar must meet the ability score prerequisites for the spell but casts the spell at the master’s level. The item familiar may cast the spell only on the master’s order (as described in Cantrips/ Orisons, above). If an item familiar casts an invested spell, it is as if the master cast it for purposes of spells per day and preparation.

There's nothing there about invested spell slots, which is something completely different. Nor does it make mention of access to its master's spell list or prepared spells. Instead, it consistently refers to invested spells, implying there's a way to invest actual spells rather than slots.

As an aside, I just now noticed that last sentence which answers one of my earlier questions; I was afraid they were able to cast the spell an indefinite number of times.

In comparison, the Invest Spell Slots section has this to say (again, emphasis is mine):


INVEST SPELL SLOTS
Only spellcasters may choose to use this option. A character with an item familiar may choose to invest a single spell slot in his familiar and gain a bonus spell slot in return. The single spell slot must be of the highest spell level he can cast, and the bonus spell slot is always two levels lower than the slot invested in the item. As the caster gains (or loses) levels, the spell slot invested in the item changes so that it is always of the highest spell level he can cast, and the bonus spell slot also changes accordingly, remaining two levels lower than that.

If a spellcaster does not have a spell slot two levels lower than the highest spell level he can cast (if he can cast only 0- and 1st-level spells), he cannot use this option.

As with all other investiture options, if the item familiar is lost or destroyed, so are both spell slots.
There's nothing about an actual spell being invested, or even exactly which of the slots of a given spell level is invested into the item familiar (a 10th-level Wizard, for example, will have 2-6 5th level slots available depending on Intelligence, specialization, and alternate class features), thus making it impossible to determine which prepared spell is actually invested. Which kind of goes against how you implied it worked.

So, again, how exactly are you investing spells into an item familiar, and most importantly, what happens if you lose it?

Okay, let's assume the Spell Use ability is how you actually invest a spell (by stating which spell it is when selecting that ability). Let's say dispel magic. So now you have dispel magic invested, and the item familiar can cast it on its own turn using your spell slots. That's not too hard to grasp or assume from the text. What is difficult to grasp is what happens if you now lose the item familiar. Does the spell get ripped out of your spellbook or list of known spells? What if you're a cleric who doesn't even have a real list of known spells or spellbook? That's the part I really have trouble with. Hmm, or maybe nothing at all is lost because this ability is actually unrelated to the investing options you have (despite the similar use of terms in its description) from earlier in the feat's description?
.

[bekeleven]

When you gain a negative level, you lose "access to one spell as if you had cast your highest-level, currently available spell. (If you have more than one spell at your highest level, you choose which you lose.) In addition, when you next prepare spells or regain spell slots, you get one less spell slot at your highest spell level."

Use the same ruling. You lose access to a spell of the appropriate levels of your choice, and when you re-prepare, those are gone.

A better question might be, "If a level 4 wizard loses a 2nd and 0th level slot, then gain a level while missing their item familiar, are they now missing a 3rd and first?"

[Maginomicon]

That doesn't seem to be what the feat's description is stating. Underlined emphasis is mine.



There's nothing there about invested spell slots, which is something completely different. Nor does it make mention of access to its master's spell list or prepared spells. Instead, it consistently refers to invested spells, implying there's a way to invest actual spells rather than slots.

As an aside, I just now noticed that last sentence which answers one of my earlier questions; I was afraid they were able to cast the spell an indefinite number of times.

In comparison, the Invest Spell Slots section has this to say (again, emphasis is mine):


There's nothing about an actual spell being invested, or even exactly which of the slots of a given spell level is invested into the item familiar (a 10th-level Wizard, for example, will have 2-6 5th level slots available depending on Intelligence, specialization, and alternate class features), thus making it impossible to determine which prepared spell is actually invested. Which kind of goes against how you implied it worked.

So, again, how exactly are you investing spells into an item familiar, and most importantly, what happens if you lose it?

Okay, let's assume the Spell Use ability is how you actually invest a spell (by stating which spell it is when selecting that ability). Let's say dispel magic. So now you have dispel magic invested, and the item familiar can cast it on its own turn using your spell slots. That's not too hard to grasp or assume from the text. What is difficult to grasp is what happens if you now lose the item familiar. Does the spell get ripped out of your spellbook or list of known spells? What if you're a cleric who doesn't even have a real list of known spells or spellbook? That's the part I really have trouble with. Hmm, or maybe nothing at all is lost because this ability is actually unrelated to the investing options you have (despite the similar use of terms in its description) from earlier in the feat's description?
.

That may be a dysfunction in it "by RAW", but the RAI (which is all that actually matters in the end) is most certainly that any reference to "invested spells" is referring to "invested spell slots". It's the only thing that makes complete logical sense when you take it all in-context with eachother for the purposes of RAI. My highly-likely-RAI explanation (as far as I can tell) leaves no ruling interpretation holes.

This is effectively the same logic as the following quote from my house rules document (which isn't "gospel", obviously, but you can see the similar dysfunction in the RAW here):


Spell Learning Limitations
Ignore the “spells known” limitation that says that you can’t “learn” a spell if your casting stat wouldn’t normally be high enough to allow you to cast it. This limitation has a permanent impact at the time spells would normally be learned that would be completely irreversible by RAW any time afterward. Such a character still can’t cast those spells, but they should regardless be able to add them to their spells known at the time. For a comparison of fairness, consider how a wizard can add any wizard spell regardless of its spell level to his spellbook even though he can’t prepare or cast the spell.

For example, assume a character with CHA 11 reaches their 4th sorcerer level. This would be the first time they learn 2nd-level spells. However, their CHA score prevents them from casting 2nd-level spells. Oops, by RAW, they don’t add a 2nd-level spell to their spells known. Furthermore, by RAW, if that character later improves their CHA at the next opportunity and thus becomes able to cast 2nd-level spells, they still don’t get that 2nd-level spell known. They never get their full complement of spells known even though now they’re capable of casting their full normal complement. That’s asinine and should be prevented.
(By the way, psionics has exactly the same rules dysfunction)
Here, the "learned" terminology in the RAW is mistakenly implied to mean "ever learned". Similarly, in the Item Familiar RAW, mentions of "spells" are mistakenly implied to mean "invested spells learned" instead of the correct "invested spell slots".