Ghostly Visage as Familiar

[Chester]

Can anyone explain to me how a ghostly visage works as a familiar? Particularly:


Can I buff its ego score?
Can it possess others / gain control?
Does it "level up"?
Are there any other nifty things my Dread Necro can do with it that aren't necessarily outlined in the Fiend Folio?

[Snowbluff]

The Visage is a familiar, so it does 'level up.' it counts as having your HD, natural armor, and stuff like that.

The DC for it's meld (which can control people with Visage) and Gaze should increase with level, and it's int will start going up at level 15.

You can meld it to yourself to gain immunity to mind affecting abilities.

[Chester]

Thank you!

Would this familiar count as "undead I control?" For the purposes of Necromantic Presence / Necromantic Might, etc?

[Snowbluff]

Thank you!

Would this familiar count as "undead I control?" For the purposes of Necromantic Presence / Necromantic Might, etc?

You're welcome!

I doubt it counts, since 'control' usually means you are using Rebuking to control it. I'd have to look at the feats. Source/page?

[Coidzor]

You're welcome!

I doubt it counts, since 'control' usually means you are using Rebuking to control it. I'd have to look at the feats. Source/page?

Libris Mortis, IIRC.

[Chester]

You're welcome!

I doubt it counts, since 'control' usually means you are using Rebuking to control it. I'd have to look at the feats. Source/page?

Libris Mortis, p. 28.

[Snowbluff]

I would say yes, since it is undead, and I would say it is under your control.

Keep in mind it has your HD for turning, as well.

[Urpriest]

and I would say it is under your control.


This bit is a bit disputable. Curmudgeon is fond of pointing out that familiars are NPCs, they are friendly but are under no obligation to obey your commands.

Anyway, OP, you should be clear on the fact that by "level up" Snowbluff means the familiar counts as having more HD for effects, and gets new familiar abilities. It doesn't actually get any more HD.

[The Viscount]

The DC for it's meld (which can control people with Visage) and Gaze should increase with level, and it's int will start going up at level 15.

This DC is similarly the subject of some debate, is it not? I haven't seen a definitive statement on whether DCs for things like poison or gaze are an "effect related to HD" and most evidence I've seen suggests against it.

[Snowbluff]

I concur with Urpriest about the HD. It's why I kept saying "HD for..."

This DC is similarly the subject of some debate, is it not? I haven't seen a definitive statement on whether DCs for things like poison or gaze are an "effect related to HD" and most evidence I've seen suggests against it.

It's debatable, but abilities are based on your HD. "Effect related to HD" is an incredibly broad term.

For a not RAW, but rational argument, I think it helps promote familiar use. Familiars are awesome and flavorful, so making them scale better means you can have these little bundles of joy present at higher levels. :smallsmile:

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

All of its abilities are at a DC of 10 + 1/2 HD + its Cha bonus. It counts as having as many HD as your character, so the DC should scale with your level. It doesn't actually level up.

It does not count against the limited number of undead you control. There are many different sources of controlled creatures, and those are supposed to stay separate. You can use Rebuke Undead to take control of creatures, and these are counted separately from how many created undead you can control via Animate Dead. The Ghostly Visage is obtained via your Familiar class feature, so it doesn't count against either of those, it's completely separate.

It can't control anything it possesses, but keep in mind it confers complete immunity to mind-affecting effects on anyone it possesses. Also remember that it can manifest over their face to use its paralyzing gaze in combat, which is extremely powerful. Also remember that a gaze attack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#gazeAttacks) can be focused on a target as a standard action, forcing that target to save vs the effect again even if they're not looking or if they already made the save once that round. This is something that the Ghostly Visage itself spends actions to do, the creature it's possessing is not hindered and does not have its actions affected in any way.

[Deophaun]

Also, Chaos Shuffling its feats around can get you some nifty stuff. Ghostly Grasp and Lifesense from Libris Mortis are quite useful. If your DM is nice, he might let you reassign the normal feat at acquisition.

[Wolfepuppy]

This DC is similarly the subject of some debate, is it not? I haven't seen a definitive statement on whether DCs for things like poison or gaze are an "effect related to HD" and most evidence I've seen suggests against it.

Actually from the monster manual under the Gaze Su in the glossary
The type of savings throw for a gaze attack varies, but it is usually a Will or Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 gazing creature's racial HD + gazing creature's Cha modifier page 309 and on page 313 of the same book
The Fortitude save DC against a poison attack is equal to 10 + 1/2 poisoning creatures racial HD + poisoning creatures Con modifier

That combined with
Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use
the master’s character level or the familiar’s normal HD total, whichever
is higher. seems pretty clear.

[Warchon]

Why would you want to buff its ego score? That's just the chance per day that it hates you and pouts all day like a moody teenager instead of fighting.

[zergling.exe]

Why would you want to buff its ego score? That's just the chance per day that it hates you and pouts all day like a moody teenager instead of fighting.

You necro'd not one, but TWO threads on the same topic at the same time?

[Warchon]

You necro'd not one, but TWO threads on the same topic at the same time?
Been doing a fair amount of googling about an upcoming class feature I'm excited about.
I MAY be guilty of not looking at how old the discussions were. 😇

[Roland St. Jude]

Sheriff: Please don't revive old threads.