Working with the Shield Charge feat

[Elric VIII]

I've seen a fair amount of S&B threads and this feat comes up often, however, one thing that I always notice is that you would be better off using a heavy shield as a two-handed weapon rather than using a shield and a weapon. Obviously, the main reason for this is the 2:1 PA returns, but that could be overcome with a dip into Exotic Weapon Master.

So, my main question here is: What can be done to make using a weapon preferable or equal to wielding a shield in two hands (in addition to EWM)?

[limejuicepowder]

Warblade would be the place to start, probably. At lower lvls, it is actually better for them to use a shield because of maneuvers.

The main reason shields are for chumps is the animated shield enchantment (imo, anyways). With some feat investment, a shield used as a thw might be as good as a regular thw...but it takes that investment. Once animated shield comes along, the shield weilder becomes the same as the thf, but with less feats.

[Elric VIII]

Well, that's good advice for someone that just wants to do S&B, but the Shield Charge feat lets me make a free trip when I make a charge attack with a shield, so by combining that with Pounce and Improved Trip, I hope to create a build that can shield bash, trip, then smack with his primary weapon with the free attack plus my iteratives. It's essentially a nice way to get free attacks without TWF or high Dex.

Most maneuvers do not play nicely with charge attacks (except for a few White Raven and Desert Wind). But thank you, anyway.


EDIT: Also, this won't work with an animated shield since I cannot bash with it.

[Gavinfoxx]

What about an animated, dancing shield?

[Piggy Knowles]

Basically, if the shield is your primary weapon, there are no easy mechanical advantages to not holding it in two hands, as you get better damage returns that way.

However, if you can find some advantage to wielding a weapon, then it becomes less of a sure thing. One of my favorite reasons to use a shield on a character that's not relying on PA for damage is because it affords me an extra wand chamber; the same is true for the shieldbearer who carries a weapon in his other hand. Ironically, one of the best uses will probably be to use your weapon for a defensive boost - get a defending weapon with a bunch of passive boosts and a wand chamber with a useful spell. You'll still be attacking with your shield, while your weapon will boost your defenses and give you an extra spellcasting option.

If you take a one-handed reach weapon such as a kusari-gama or spinning sword, you can also threaten a greater area, which is handy for crusaders in particular.

Also, since you're building a shield user anyhow, it would probably be worth picking up Shield Slam (allowing you to daze enemies in addition to tripping them with a shield charge), and to look into the Shield Block and Shield Counter maneuvers. Both are Devoted Spirit counters; Shield Block lets you provide an AC bonus to an ally of your shield's bonus +4 as an immediate action, while Shield Counter lets you make an immediate action shield bash attempt in response to an attack, and if it hits, the opponent's attack misses.

[Darrin]

So, my main question here is: What can be done to make using a weapon preferable or equal to wielding a shield in two hands (in addition to EWM)?

How about... use Dragon Tail/Prehensile Tail to hold your heavy shield, and use Agile Shield Fighter to reduce your TWF penalties to -2/-2. That leaves both hands free to use a two-handed grip on a greatsword.

So charge + pounce, get a free trip attack + save vs dazed for 1 round, and if your trip succeeds, your free attack is a two-handed greatsword with Power Attack multipliers.

Race: Frostblood Orc/Half-Orc.
1) Ranger 1. Feat: Improved Shield Bash. Bonus: Track.
2) Ranger 2. Bonus: TWF.
3) Ranger 3. Feat: Shield Specialization. Bonus: Endurance -> Agile Shield Fighter.
Dragonborn of Bahumat: Track -> Dragon Tail
4) Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian 1. Whirling Frenzy, Pounce.
5) Wolf Totem Barbarian 2. Bonus: Improved Trip.
6) Ranger 4. Feat: Prehensile Tail. Champion of the Wild ACF -> Improved TWF.
7) Fighter 1. Bonus: Shield Charge.
8) Fighter 2. Bonus: Power Attack.
9) Fighter 3. Feat: Leap Attack.
10) Fighter 4. Bonus: Shield Slam.
11) Fighter 5.
12) Fighter 6. Feat: Improved Bull Rush. Bonus: Shock Trooper.
13) Fighter 7.
14) Fighter 8. Bonus: Greater TWF.
15) Fighter 9. Feat: Travel Devotion.
16) Fighter 10. Bonus: Combat Reflexes.
17) Fighter 11.
18) Fighter 12. Feat: Travel Devotion x2. Bonus: Double Hit.
19) Fighter 13.
20) Fighter 14. Bonus: Robilar's Gambit.