Oh Gods...

[sambouchah]

My DM just challenged me to build a Monk/Truenamer multiclass. :smalleek:

Rules of the challenge are as follows:

No base classes other than Monk and Truenamer
Only Monk or Truenamer PrCs.
No Gestalting.
3.5 Material only.


But on the bright side I get to play as any race I want(Probably a dwarf?), and I have access to all 3.5 books.

So how can I make this work in a campaign where we slay dragons? I thought about trying to get into Ur Priest and just figuring it out from there but I don't know. HELP???

Thanks for any advice you can give, Sam

[ryu]

ANY race you want? Are the any limits on LA? I'm thinking of doing something utterly silly that breaks the spirit of the challenge, but not the rules of it, harder than you can possibly imagine.

[sambouchah]

ANY race you want? Are the any limits on LA? I'm thinking of doing something utterly silly that breaks the spirit of the challenge, but not the rules of it, harder than you can possibly imagine.

Yes ANY race. But I'd prefer to not completely destroy the game. Oh and we aren't allowed to be dragons, so there is one limit on races.

[JoshuaZ]

At what levels should this build be viable?

[sambouchah]

At what levels should this build be viable?

Well the other party members are level five and that is what I was asked to roll. But preferably up to about 20.

[ryu]

So no LA over 10 races with natural spellcasting? It TECHNICALLY fits the given challenge.

[sambouchah]

New Rule: Any Prestige Class I choose must advance Monk abilities or my truenaming.

[Lord Haart]

Do you have to have non-zero levels in both Monk and Truenamer or would a character that focuses on one side of things without throwing a level away suffice?

[Metahuman1]

Well, time to crack open the PHB II. Particularly, rules to make custom affiliations.

Have it give you a special ability that grants Int to Fort saves in place of Con. And the Marshal Classes Motivate Int Aura. And the following bonus feats.

Keen Intellect,

Knowledge Devotion,

Fearie Mysteries Initiate,

Insightful Reflexes,

Kung Fu Genius.

Now, take the feats Travel devotion, Shape Soulmeld: Sphinxe Claws, Multy Attack, Open Chakura: Hands, Snap Kick and Luck Devotion.

Pump Your Strength And Intelligence Scores like your life depends on it. Use any and Every trick to get them as high as you can, cause all your defenses use Int and your offense benefits form Int but is mainly Str based. Also, check out Planar Handbook/manual of the planes, and grab that magic locaiton that grants turn undead attempts + some Nightsticks.

Then invest in the Mage Slayer Line, which shouldn't affect your true naming, and invest in a Custom Item of Greater Magic Weapon and another of Greater Mighty Wallop, the former at the highest possible caster level and the latter at at least caster level 6. Then an Amulet of Mighty Fists with a +1, the Speed Property, and the Force Property, and the Valorous property, in that order. After that I'd tack on the healing property.

That get's you around DR, doubles your damage on a charge (Hint, your always charging in combat.), helps you recover hit points by attacking enemy's, and adds about 3 extra attacks to your attack Routine, and if I understand the Force property correctly, you also get around Incorporeal with it.

Beyond that, Item Familiar and Max Truenaming, Knowledge skills and UMD any way you can.

[paddyfool]

What exactly did you do to earn this horrible fate?

[Psyren]

Technically, no PrCs advance truenaming. (Well, other than Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster etc.)

What's the ultimate goal of the challenge? I mean, you could build a Commoner 20 and then say, "hark, I've built a Commoner 20." Is the build then supposed to be able to accomplish something? Defeat a certain foe? Fulfill a certain task? Achieve a certain objective?

[Rubik]

Hatchling phaerimm monk X/truenamer 1.

Then use the hell out of your WBL. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

[sambouchah]

So no LA over 10 races with natural spellcasting? It TECHNICALLY fits the given challenge.

No haha I feel like that would ruin the game for everyone.


Do you have to have non-zero levels in both Monk and Truenamer or would a character that focuses on one side of things without throwing a level away suffice?

I have to have at least one level in each sadly.


What exactly did you do to earn this horrible fate?

Repeatedly play powerful characters(Conjurers, Druids, Clerics, Disciple of Dispators, etc etc etc) and he got sick of it. Also he promised me some "Rad Magic Items" if I accepted.


Technically, no PrCs advance truenaming. (Well, other than Legacy Champion/Uncanny Trickster etc.)

What's the ultimate goal of the challenge? I mean, you could build a Commoner 20 and then say, "hark, I've built a Commoner 20." Is the build then supposed to be able to accomplish something? Defeat a certain foe? Fulfill a certain task? Achieve a certain objective?

The ultimate goal is to survive in a campaign with dragons as the primary enemy, while staying a valuable team member despite my crippled classes. Also to prove to myself that there are other options worth trying just to try. I tend to over optimize in games and that gets old, carrying the party weight.

[ryu]

Ah so he's okay with magic item shenanigans then? If so have you considered maxing the ever-loving hell out of UMD and playing as a gimped artificer archetype?

[sambouchah]

Hatchling phaerimm monk X/truenamer 1.

Then use the hell out of your WBL. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

Where is the Hatchling Phaerimm located?


Ah so he's okay with magic item shenanigans then? If so have you considered maxing the ever-loving hell out of UMD and playing as a gimped artificer archetype?

He hasn't said he isn't so I assume it's okay:smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

Just to get the obvious out of the way, there's Acolyte of the Ego. It sucks, of course, but it's probably still a marginal improvement over straight Monk.

[Rubik]

Where is the Hatchling Phaerimm located?Lost Empires of Faerun. They're like chromatic and metallic dragons, insofar as you build them using age categories.

[Psyren]

Just to get the obvious out of the way, there's Acolyte of the Ego. It sucks, of course, but it's probably still a marginal improvement over straight Monk.

Assuming you meant the Truenamer/Monk PrC, it's Disciple of the Word actually. Acolyte of the Ego is a weird PrC built around talking to yourself.

[TiaC]

Hatchling phaerimm monk X/truenamer 1.

Then use the hell out of your WBL. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15474863#post15474863)

I was planning to post that. Other races that can carry a build are Phrenic, Half-fey(Use the savage progression to play a lesser feytouched and take the transition class. This makes it LA +1), and Ghost.

Are there any monk prestige classes with their own casting?

[Rubik]

I was planning to post that. Other races that can carry a build are Phrenic, Half-fey(Use the savage progression to play a lesser feytouched and take the transition class. This makes it LA +1), and Ghost.

Are there any monk prestige classes with their own casting?Psionic fist, from the SRD. And ghost savage progression (buying the levels off one at a time) would make a great template, since you can possess monster bodies using malevolence and just use aforesaid body to eat face regardless of class.

[sambouchah]

I was planning to post that. Other races that can carry a build are Phrenic, Half-fey(Use the savage progression to play a lesser feytouched and take the transition class. This makes it LA +1), and Ghost.

Are there any monk prestige classes with their own casting?

Fist of Zouken gives manifesting.

[SanusCompleo]

My DM just challenged me to build a Monk/Truenamer multiclass. :smalleek:

Don't Panic.

Truenamer won't be as bad as you think. Nor will Monk, really. First off, you're going to need a bloodline. Also, a monk's belt, and a monk's tattoo. This will get you some nice monk goodies. Then 18 Truenamer. Grab the Gate at your last level. Some helpful tips:

Law of Resistance: Utterances of different level don't count for this law. Also, you can willfully increase your DC by 4 to increase the level of your utterance*1.

Law of Sequence: Same thing as above, it even gives us the text that allows us to treat utterances as different if they are of different levels*2.
All utterances obey the Law of Sequence. If you speak an
utterance with an ongoing duration, you can’t speak that
utterance again until the duration of that utterance ends.
It’s okay to use a different utterance while the first is still
active, however. It’s also okay to use a higher-level version of
an utterance while a lower-level version is active, or vice versa,
because these constitute different utterances. The reverse of
an utterance is treated as the same utterance for the purpose
of the Law of Sequence.

ToM - 223

Utterance Stacking: Utterance bonuses are unnamed. As different utterances (because of Law of Sequence and voluntary +4 DC increase), two Knight's Puissances, Greater will stack with one another. For DC 15+Your CRx2+25 and then DC 15+CRx2+9 you can expend a standard and a swift action for 10 rounds of +10 attack/damage (Extend and Quicken Utterance). Belt of Battle, or help from White Raven Tactics would increase the effectiveness of something like that. Note, Fast Healing nor DR will stack with itself, since different effects of these kinds rarely if ever explicitly stack.

Extend Utterance: This theory is of questionable legality, and I would like it if someone with greater rules expertise could review. This may be a case of 'ask your DM'. Extend, Enlarge, Quicken, and Maximize Utterance are all general feats, with no associated "metamagic" or "metautterance" tags. They fulfill the same function, however, as metamagic. In core rules, this text can be found:
Multiple Metamagic Feats on a Spell
A spellcaster can apply multiple metamagic feats to a single spell. Changes to its level are cumulative. You can’t apply the same metamagic feat more than once to a single spell.
In Tome of Magic, of course, there is no such text. Also, to use one of these feats to modify an utterance, it's just a flat DC increase. There is precedence to increasing the difficulty of a skill check in order to create an additional effect, such as Craft's +10 to increase the DC. The only "metautterance" feat that this would benefit, would be Extend, as it states: "An extended utterance lasts twice as long as normal". This effectively doubles the original duration (a flat x2 multiplier) which would continue to add a multiplier to the base duration (x2, then x3, then x4, not x2 then x4, then x8) for a DC increase. For the same cost to quicken an utterance, you can have it last 20 additional rounds, much longer than your average fight. Or if you have a sufficiently high Truespeak DC, you can turn utterance buffs into longer duration buffs.

Use Magic Device: Both of these classes get UMD as a class skill. Which is pretty great. Even if you can't get hold of Master Alchemists or Alchemist Savants, you can still get up to 3rd level spell tiles that you can rebuild all day long, on the super cheap. Which gives you access to a -lot- of spells, buffs and otherwise, including hourlies and dailies. From here, you can also access very nice damage dealing spells, or gems such as wands of wraithstrike and Guidance of the Avatar to increase your skill checks. Also, Shield and Mage Armor will greatly benefit you as well.

Item Familiar: This is where one of your biggest skill bonuses come from. Don't be afraid to use it. Bonus if you can also make it your masterwork tool to give +2 to Truespeak and/or UMD. If you don't know how to use it, just understand that you can funnel your skill increases into it (If you lose your Item Familiar, you lose your skill points invested however). The benefit is that for each 3 ranks you invest, you can allocate a +1 unnamed bonus to a skill. Since you will be a high intelligence character (Maybe Carmendine Monk for flavor/Int synergy?) you will most likely enjoy the bonuses. They will also cap out at your maximum ranks (Your level+3, or your level+6 if you have a major bloodline, which will also net you bonus feats you may need). As a separate bonus, you'll get +10% experience as well, as long as you don't lose your Item Familiar. In case this isn't clear already, Don't Lose Your Item Familiar. If you do, your best bet is a massive Psychic Reformation that allows you to either designate a new Item Familiar, or abandon the current one for another feat.

Wandification: Utterances can be put into wands. Consider the possibilities of that. When you have downtime, you can increase the Truespeak DC of an utterance to use in a wand as -high- as you're able to make through use of Extend and then use it for a long duration nearly freely. They won't be able to stack with themselves from the same wand, but they can be a good starting ground.

Leadership: A lot of DMs ban this feat. Personally, when I DM, I'm usually alright with it provided two things: The player does all of the paperwork involved, and secondly they document everything in a format that I can read at my discretion. If this doesn't fly for your DM, offer to abandon the followers for just the cohort, because there are a lot of ways you can go with this. Perhaps you can get that Master Alchemist/Alchemist Savant potion tile maker you've always wanted. Maybe you can get a Crusader companion to stand as an Island of Blades, and use White Raven Tactics on you all the time. Maybe an Artificer to help you by building things that you can make use of through UMD? It's an option, which is why it's here.

The Longshot: See if your DM will allow you to research new truenames like the under-used option for wizards that allow them to research new spells. Personally I feel that the greatest failing of the Truenamer isn't it's DC, but rather it's lack of support outside of Tome of Magic, and limited Utterance selection. +5 attack/damage and unlimited gates are ultimately in the realm of high level characters, but there's no real support for anything middle-of-the-line, which is disappointing. If your DM is willing to work with you, then the experience can be very good.

Garbling; or The Dirtiest Trick: I don't suggest this one. There's an 11 HD creature in the Tome of Magic called the Garbler. Its an excellent target to polymorph into, as its skills will be transferred. Just above Immunities, there reads a line: Skills: A garbler never needs to make a Truespeak check for its utterances. If you use this, I hope you have good coverage, and don't mind losing hours to concussive injuries :smallbiggrin:

Rare Synergy: You'll most likely want to be a human, and probably take a few flaws as well in order to get all of the feats you might want. What I would suggest, at bare minimum, is Item familiar, Knowledge Devotion, Carmendine Monk, Extend and Quicken Utterances (Quicken Utterance will be your 9th level feat. This isn't negotiable.). Flurry of Blows actually gains a benefit here, as it can transfer damage from Knowledge Devotion, and Knight's Puissance, Greater (If you take it. Unfortunately it's only available at extremely high levels) very reliably. Divine Power Favor is also nearly mandatory. I would also suggest a potion tile of Girallon's Blessing, and perhaps even Arms of Plenty (Although that one has a much smaller duration). Perhaps even Chakra Bind for Girallon Arms, to gain additional attacks. Enlarge Person, see if Haste will work for your unarmed strikes (Or use several monk weapons to flurry with), maybe even Snap Kick. Unarmed Striking won't be your only method of dealing damage, as you still can use Wands and Staves (Put a Wand Chamber in your Staff, to preserve actions). If you also have a decent Charisma score, consider a pair of Heartfelt Gauntlets, unless you want to use your hand slots for something else.

Other Resources:
The Tao of Truenaming (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8270) - Or Solo's Truenaming Guide. It's not quite determined in the following thread if the guide is a joke or not, but despite derogatory comments it's quite good information.
The Truenamer Optimization Thread (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=8489.0) - Also linked in the Tao of Truenaming, but still very useful.
In the Beginning was the Word, and the Word was Suck (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214115) - Obligatory, really. Zaq's experience with as-written Truenamers.




*1: Link (http://ideone.com/GhMg5l) - I made a small little tool at Ideone to figure out how many uses you can get out of an individual utterance depending on the maximum DC you're willing to go to, using the rule that allows you to willingly increase the DC by 4 to change the level of the utterance. Edit: (Press the Edit Button in the link, next to Fork and Download. This will allow you to change the stdin, or the input)

*2: The table below shows how the dc can increase. it's a basic triangular number, only the second row goes missing, because of the +4 jump.



Natural Progression ---->
*
| 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
| -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
| 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
V 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
8 10 12 14 16 18 20
10 12 14 16 18 20
12 14 16 18 20
14 16 18 20
16 18 20
18 20
20

* +4 DC off of natural DC increase via Law of Resistance,
the 4 below the -- is equal to 0+4, the third row (6) is
equal to 2+4, the start of the next row is 4+4, etc.

Edit: In case this wasn't clear, for +20, instead of having
11 uses of an utterance, you can actually get 56.


Edit: Attack Sequence of the 20th level with all arms
+14/+9/+4 BaB
+14/+14/+14/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+9/+4 (six pairs of arms, getting up to imp. twf would gain you 2 additional attacks, but all would take a -2)
+5 (Knowledge Devotion)
+10 (One round of Knight's Puissance, Greater)
+3 (Divine Favor)
+2 (Create Magic Tattoo at the beginning of the day)
+5 Amulet of Natural Attacks
+39/+39/+39/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+34/+29
+23 damage to each hit. Before Strength bonuses. Also, Enlarge Person might go very well with this. Each round you aren't throwing on a Wraithstrike from your Wand of Wraithstrike, you can use your swift action to attach a Quickened Empowered Reversed Word of Nurturing, Greater to to deal 15d6 additional damage.

Mind you, this is all before strength bonuses. If we manage a Belt of Magnificence, attack and damage go up by +3, Elation gives a morale bonus of +2 to both Strength and Dexterity for +4 instead of +3. Before 20, or if you grab Unlimited Gate instead of Knight's Puissance, Greater, you'll have more difficulty making the attack bonus. There are still ways, and Wraithstrike is available to you, making your attack bonus nearly negligent. Typical gish strategies can make this work out well for you.

Oddball Options: You can always also try Archery. Your damage buffs work for it, so long as you have just 10 in Dexterity you can also manage the same amount of attack bonus presented above, with many many arms. The Strength Bonuses will help your damage using a Composite (Great)bow, and you can always grab rapid shot and precise shot with careful feat selection, then get the splitting enhancement. Knowledge Devotion's bonuses work well for your bow as well.

Grappling is a distinct possibility as well. It requires Improved Grapple, however, but it's not impossible. You will deal considerable unarmed damage while grappling with nearly anything. Fuse Arms is a spell you might want to consider, for the great strength bonus having 4 pairs of arms can give you, to assist in these grapple checks.

Control: The 'Solid Fog' is a very useful effect for control, as well as reversed word of nurturing/reversed knight's puissance, breath of x. There's a lot of single-target debuffs, and eventually (Speak to the Masses) there are a lot of multi-target debuffs. Since you can stack them reliably, you can slowly whittle away the defenses and strengths of encounters and allow your teammates to take the spotlight. Be wary, if you cannot see your target, truespeaking against them will be much harder.

Buffer: Most of the Utterances are there to help buff your companions. Anything you can do to yourself, you can do to your friends just as well. Reversed Spell Rebirth can also strip buffs/debuffs exceedingly well.

Tripping is another method, but one I don't suggest. Reach isn't put in here anywhere.

[TiaC]

Psionic fist, from the SRD.
That has a surprising amount of potential actually.


And ghost savage progression (buying the levels off one at a time) would make a great template, since you can possess monster bodies using malevolence and just use aforesaid body to eat face regardless of class.

I know, isn't it awesome!? I used this to make an E6 character that could possess a Balor. You also have Telekinesis for insane burst damage.

[limejuicepowder]

He hasn't said he isn't so I assume it's okay:smallbiggrin:

Exploiting the loopholes of rules made in order to prevent you from breaking the game, especially when those rules are seemingly made by someone who doesn't have your system mastery, is probably not going to be appreciated xD.

This character should really be focused in a support role. ROFLsmashing everything with sub-par classes is not going to make you look that good. I also highly recommend a strong back story and character development: tables tend to excuse OP characters a bit if they have a good in-game reason to be doing what they're doing.

[Rubik]

I know, isn't it awesome!? I used this to make an E6 character that could possess a Balor. You also have Telekinesis for insane burst damage.And it costs, what, 15,000 xp to buy off all five levels, if you take them all one at a time at level 3? You take one level, buy off the LA, take the next one, buy off the LA, and so on. And since you're incorporeal (and will eventually be in something else's body), you'll be nigh impossible to hurt. And given that you're effectively level 3 at level 8, you'll be gaining XP like crazy, while still gaining class features.

[SanusCompleo]

Buff the Hell out of your Truespeak skill: It's said everywhere. It's kind of hard, but not too hard. If you manage a bloodline and use Item Familiar, you'll get +6. Which is actually nicer than it sounds.

level+6*2 is the start of the formula. If you manage at least 16 in your Int, then that's another +3, then +4 at 8, and +5 at 16. +1 for each +2 you get on your Int increasing item, which is very dependent on your wealth (So is the whole idea), +10 for your Amulet of Silver Tongue, a simple 10,000 gp cost. 90,000 if you can get the +30 version, off of DMG custom-magic-item creation rules. This alone, at level 10 is 48, while the DC for affecting a creature of that CR is 35. It gets you a few uses (29/day) of any given utterance. Which isn't bad, you've got pretty good staying power. A whole lot of Words of Nurturing, that's for certain. But more likely, you'll be using utterances to help yourself.

Also... Universal Aptitude. I'm a little intimidated by Universal Aptitude, honestly. If you can afford a high check to extend, you can get a rather high check by stacking Universal Aptitudes for at least a short duration. Consider this, a CL 11 Polymorph can turn you into a garbler for 11 minutes. That's 66 rounds of Universal Aptitude that can last for all eternity, if you will it. Unless you meet another truenamer. Double the amount of rounds if you get anything out of Quicken Utterance, and you have 132 uses of it, for +660 to all skills. That's just... not right, but it is RAW. Don't do that thing. It is a bad thing to do. A very bad thing to do.

I feel I should mention Ethereal Reforged is instantaneous, and thus effectively gives your party ghost-touch forever. I'd suggest giving it a duration of 5 rounds, but I like the instantaneousness.

[SanusCompleo]

And it costs, what, 15,000 xp to buy off all five levels, if you take them all one at a time at level 3? You take one level, buy off the LA, take the next one, buy off the LA, and so on. And since you're incorporeal (and will eventually be in something else's body), you'll be nigh impossible to hurt. And given that you're effectively level 3 at level 8, you'll be gaining XP like crazy, while still gaining class features.

The Savage Progression levels aren't LA, they're actual levels. Unless there's something I'm missing, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't work that way.

[Jack_Simth]

Lost Empires of Faerun. They're like chromatic and metallic dragons, insofar as you build them using age categories.
And the big benefit? They get racial casting, as a Sorcerer, casting all their spells as spell-like abilities... based on their hit dice. Not their racial hit dice, just their hit dice.

So a Hatchling Phaerimm Monk-18 would cast as a Sorcerer-18 (theoretically). Makes for a nice tier-2 build.

Edit: Oh yes, and don't forget LA Buy Off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) and that Critters with only one HD lose it when they gain a class level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels).

[Rubik]

The Savage Progression levels aren't LA, they're actual levels. Unless there's something I'm missing, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't work that way.The ghost progression doesn't grant hit dice, and LA is the only other answer. Otherwise, your ECL doesn't change after taking a level in the progression, and you essentially buy off the LA as the default (since ECL = HD + LA, and according to you, taking levels in ghost grants neither, so you continue gaining levels according to your HD and lack of LA).

Five levels, five LA on the ghost template. Looks like LA to me.

[SanusCompleo]

Five levels, five LA on the ghost template. Looks like LA to me.

I think you may be right, although I'm not wanting to look into it further at the time being.


And the big benefit? They get racial casting, as a Sorcerer, casting all their spells as spell-like abilities... based on their hit dice. Not their racial hit dice, just their hit dice.

So a Hatchling Phaerimm Monk-18 would cast as a Sorcerer-18 (theoretically). Makes for a nice tier-2 build.

Edit: Oh yes, and don't forget LA Buy Off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) and that Critters with only one HD lose it when they gain a class level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monstersAsRaces.htm#humanoidsAndClassLevels).

Major X Bloodline Ghost Savage Progression Phaerimm Monk 2/Truenamer 18.
This is utterly depraved, undeniably disgusting, and ultimately despicable. I like it though.

Mind, tiers don't necessarily describe power level, but rather versatility. Tier 1s can do anything, Tier 2s can almost do anything, but while this may be tier 2, it would destroy nearly any same-cr encounters on it's own with little/no trouble.

[TiaC]

And it costs, what, 15,000 xp to buy off all five levels, if you take them all one at a time at level 3? You take one level, buy off the LA, take the next one, buy off the LA, and so on. And since you're incorporeal (and will eventually be in something else's body), you'll be nigh impossible to hurt. And given that you're effectively level 3 at level 8, you'll be gaining XP like crazy, while still gaining class features.

If you start at level 5, you will have finished the buyoff when your party is around 1/4 of the way to level 7.

[Rubik]

If you start at level 5, you will have finished the buyoff when your party is around 1/4 of the way to level 7.Is that including the "XP is a River" thing? If not, I think you'd get there earlier.

[SanusCompleo]

Are you still there, sambouchah?

[Rubik]

Are you still there, sambouchah?Perhaps he's been the victim of unnaming.

[sambouchah]

Are you still there, sambouchah?

Yeah, sorry. I was searching books vigorously. I feel like playing a ghost will get books thrown at me.

[SanusCompleo]

Yeah, sorry. I was searching books vigorously. I feel like playing a ghost will get books thrown at me.

I fear that Phaerimm may do much the same. For my pride's sake, I am significantly interested in what you thought of my advice provided towards the beginning of the thread.

[sambouchah]

I fear that Phaerimm may do much the same. For my pride's sake, I am significantly interested in what you thought of my advice provided towards the beginning of the thread.

Illumians being a language based race I chose them, with Carmendine Monk 2/Truenamer 3(eventually TN 18). Buffing the hell out of my True Speak skill.

[Rubik]

Take a note from GiaPickomoford and buff up UMD as much as you can.

[SanusCompleo]

Illumian is a fine race. I believe Solo's guide has some things regarding them that may assist, but I don't know anything about Illumians personally.

[Jack_Simth]

Major X Bloodline Ghost Savage Progression Phaerimm Monk 2/Truenamer 18.
This is utterly depraved, undeniably disgusting, and ultimately despicable. I like it though.
... how so? Neither the Savage Progresion Ghost nor the major bloodlines give any hit dice; they're just a different way of doing level adjustment... which puts that monster at ECL 30 before buyoff (ten levels of LA). Am I missing something?

Mind, tiers don't necessarily describe power level, but rather versatility. Tier 1s can do anything, Tier 2s can almost do anything, but while this may be tier 2, it would destroy nearly any same-cr encounters on it's own with little/no trouble.
... I'm definitely missing something for this to be true. What am I missing?

[SanusCompleo]

... how so? Neither the Savage Progresion Ghost nor the major bloodlines give any hit dice; they're just a different way of doing level adjustment... which puts that monster at ECL 30 before buyoff (ten levels of LA). Am I missing something?

... I'm definitely missing something for this to be true. What am I missing?

The Bloodlines can be bought at ECL 1, and the Savage Progression can be bought off for, 15,000 XP (I think, so I read up there). But combining with all of the tactics I proposed earlier, plus ghost, plus full sorcerer casting...

http://hugelolcdn.com/i700/59114.jpg

Also, as far as tier explanations go, a Tier 1 classes can essentially do anything, given time to prepare, at very little resource cost to themselves. Tier 2 can do almost all of that, but they have more restrictions. It's about versatility, or at least my (possibly flawed) interpretation is. For our ghost phaerimm monk truenamer, it has full sorcerer casting (bringing the character build up to tier 2 by default), as well as it's multitude of other goodies. It's entirely flexible, but it cannot change its loadout every day, without a small xp sacrifice (Limited Wish+Psychic Reformation), leaving it still at Tier 2. Although it's an exceptionally powerful build, that still fits in with the description for classes at tier 2. Still, I'm not sure that characters themselves can be defined by the tier system.

Oh, and also if the truenamer side takes their Gate ability, then they have nigh unlimited xp-free gates, which would bring them into tier 1 versatility. My definition of tiers comes from here (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=1002.0).

Edit: I realize now that you might have meant "What do you mean by, able to destroy like-cr encounters with little to no trouble?", and if that is the case (pardon) then I mean as a melee combatant, it is more than fair, and it's sorcerer racial casting brings up the rest significantly. The truenamer, while not very flexible, does give a lot of odd niche and also irresistible advantages. It's hard to do much against truenaming. For +5 to the DC, you can ignore Spell Resistance, and a lot of effects have no save DC either. Or you can willingly boost the DC by boosting the effective level.

Also, I digress, but the Bloodline gives it 3 additional levels to add to the sorcerer casting as well, and lenient readings may actually give it 3 additional real levels of casting per class. I would interpret it the straight-forward way, though, and only give +3 caster level, if anything. It may only apply to class abilities, as well.

[Chronos]

Illumian truenamers are one of the few things that's right about truenaming: The race that's mechanically best for a truenamer is also, by odd coincidence, the race with the most truenamey fluff.

[Rubik]

Does anyone have a link to the pre-RoD illumians that were much better than the ones in Races of Destiny, with more options available for sigils?

[TiaC]

Is that including the "XP is a River" thing? If not, I think you'd get there earlier.

I miscalculated, including XP is a river starting at 5th level(so you start with 10k XP but gain at a faster rate), you can have the four levels that are worth taking by the time your party becomes level 6. When they are level seven you are level 5 with four levels of ghost. You will be level 7 when they are 1000 XP into level eight. You will be level 8 when they are 6333 XP into level eight.