re-leveling spells

[blelliot]

Going through spells the other day, and sme upon that old goody, Shivering Touch. I was wondering about using the spell, but at higher level. Probably level six. First, does this sound like overkill? Second, are there any other spells that you would re-level?

[TuggyNE]

Energy transformation field should probably be a 9th.

Meteor swarm should be an 8th. Freedom should just be re-written with a new concept; potentially, it should be folded into superior restoration, superior restoration pull "This effect can only be reversed by miracle or wish" duties and generally act like an even better version of restoration.

[Emperor Tippy]

Energy transformation field should probably be a 9th.

Meteor swarm should be an 8th. Freedom should just be re-written with a new concept; potentially, it should be folded into superior restoration, superior restoration pull "This effect can only be reversed by miracle or wish" duties and generally act like an even better version of restoration.

I would make Freedom a day long buff (maybe 10 minutes or hours per level) that simply negates any attempt to incapacitate or capture the target, and probably let it be expended to act as a personal Wish like teleport.

[TuggyNE]

Streamers is, I think, both underleveled and very poorly written.


I would make Freedom a day long buff (maybe 10 minutes or hours per level) that simply negates any attempt to incapacitate or capture the target, and probably let it be expended to act as a personal Wish like teleport.

That would probably work more or less OK too.

[blelliot]

I would make Freedom a day long buff (maybe 10 minutes or hours per level) that simply negates any attempt to incapacitate or capture the target, and probably let it be expended to act as a personal Wish like teleport.

That would be interesting.

[nedz]

Glitterdust.
Level 2 spell: AoE which negates stealth, no save, and can blind for 1 round / level. Should probably be about level 4.

[Eldan]

Alter Self should be level 3 at least. It's as good as several other level 2 buffs combined.

[Devronq]

I Completly agree with streamers. Maybe if they could only make one attack and then end they would be OK but as written they are far better than any lv.9 blasting spell I know of.

Oh geeze I'm doing my own rewrite and I changed lots of spell levels I'm heading to Ned soon bit if I remember tommorow ill send you a list. One change I felt strongly about was the cure blah woulds spells should be the same for all class as they are for the cleric

[blelliot]

Thanks in advance for the list!

[DonEsteban]

Well, Shivering Touch is arguably broken at any level (being a save-or-suck spell).
Glitterdust is okay at level 2 if you remove the blinding effect.
Alter Self is fine if you remove or cap natural armor bonus and probably do not allow flying.

...and so on. That's what I would probably change, but maybe that's beyond the scope of this thread.

[Studoku]

Well, Shivering Touch is arguably broken at any level (being a save-or-suck spell).
It doesn't have a save and dropping someone's dex to 0 is closer to the effects of save-or-die rather than save-or-suck.

[KillianHawkeye]

Problem: making glitterdust a higher level spell would only increase the DC for the save needed to avoid the blinding effect. Give the DM a chance! :smallsigh:

[nedz]

Actually it's the You can't hide any more — no save which is the killer. How to invalidate stealth based characters for the rest of the combat.

I recommend bumping Glitterdust to 3rd and making the Blindness last for 1 round.

[KillianHawkeye]

Actually it's the You can't hide any more — no save which is the killer. How to invalidate stealth based characters for the rest of the combat.

Meh, I could usually take it or leave it. I don't usually use glitterdust to reveal invisible enemies unless I also happen to already have see invisibility up, because I'd have to correctly guess their location in the first place and it's harder to aim the area for maximum effectiveness when I can't see the targets.

In my experience, you want the blindness effect because it totally hoses most things' combat ability. It's especially good against Dexterity-focused characters, because they don't wear much armor and usually don't have the best Will saves, so they're really depending on that Dex to protect them. Take that away, and it can make the Fighter's job a lot easier. The fact that these enemies are also the ones who are likely to be good at stealth is strictly a bonus IMO.

[nedz]

I guess it depends on the situation.

I was in an 18th level party composed of mid tier sneaky characters. We got hit by one of these at random, everyone made their save but we were sucked into a fight we had intended to bypass. Our mission was completely compromised by a 2nd level spell with no save.

[Darrin]

Power word: pain is sort of the poster child for this. However, there's been some conjecture that it and power word: sicken were accidentally swapped, and power word: pain should be a 2nd level spell.

[Curmudgeon]

Second, are there any other spells that you would re-level?
Sure. I'd add +1 level to every spell in the game; it's a good start. :smallwink:

[Rebel7284]

Shivering touch is not automatic death. Maximized Shivering Touch, however, pretty much is.

[Ravens_cry]

It doesn't have a save and dropping someone's dex to 0 is closer to the effects of save-or-die rather than save-or-suck.
Save-or-lose. You aren't dead, but you are out of the fight and your options for defence are limited.

[Devronq]

Hi Here to drop off my suggestions on spell lists like i said i would :P
Few things to mention real quick i suggest that all spells be of the same level for all classes like cure light mod serious critical etc and i suggest using the pathfinder rules that all level zero spells are infinite.
I also suggest that some spells be rewritten as well as spell level change (maybe just one or the other depending.) These spells are wish, limited wish, alter self, polymorph, shapechange, gate, blanar binding, scrying, teleport well big list.
I also changed the range and duration of alot of things, good buffs like energy immunity are lowered alot like 1min/level and sime others went up. My ranges are close 25ft+5ft/2 levels, medium 50ft+5ft/level, long 100f+10ft/level.
Energy drain should go down to 8th, its only double enervation why should it be more than double the level?
Mass invisibility should be lv.5 and mass improved invisibility should be 7th
Streamers is ok at 5 if they die in one attack if not 9th is still very powerful for its level
Ummm ya i thought i had more changes it was more making things the same level for all classes (usually the lower) and rewriting the spell instead of changing the level.

[qwertyu63]

Take the spell Sending. Replace the rules text with that from the psionic power Correspond. Reduce by one spell level, to match the power level of Correspond. Done.

[Ramza00]

Glitterdust.
Level 2 spell: AoE which negates stealth, no save, and can blind for 1 round / level. Should probably be about level 4.

Not my glitterdust / flashbangs

:smallfrown: