help against rust monsters

[Beldernae]

i have a disciple of dispater, and i am trying to find a way to protect against rust monsters so they dont destroy my main power source. any suggestions?

[ArqArturo]

Prayer XD.

Other than that, take any item that gives you flying, and kill it at a distance.

[Fax Celestis]

Blueshine (MIC) is an armor property for 1500 gp that makes items immune to acid and rust. You could easily extrapolate it to other non-armor metallic items.

Alternatively, drop 11500 gp on a gauntlet of rust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gauntletofRust).

[Studoku]

Run.

People can be healed or raised. Equipment cannot.

[ArqArturo]

Run.

People can be healed or raised. Equipment cannot.

You can't run really fast with armor on :smalltongue:.

[Telok]

Oh just stick your sword/armor in a bag of holding or a wooden chest and beat the thing to death with a stick. Rust monsters aren't dangerous.

Throw a net on it, shoot it with arrows, ward it off with burning oil, throw some iron spikes to the left and run to the right, get your pet gorilla to grapple it, curse it with an Int penalty, make your wizard punch it down.

Seriously, you need to be able to do something other than hit stuff with a sword.

[Fax Celestis]

Alternatively, drop 11500 gp on a gauntlet of rust (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gauntletofRust).

On this, btw: an item that protects all your equipment from rust (that is, a gauntlet of rust that doesn't have the 1/d rusting grasp), is apparently 950 gp (or 1425 in a non-hands slot).

11500gp - 10080 for 1/d CL7 4th level spell = 1420, 1420/1.5 for being the cheaper ability of a two-ability item = 946, round up to 950. Note that your DM may hit you with a book.

[Darrin]

Blueshine (MIC) is an armor property for 1500 gp that makes items immune to acid and rust. You could easily extrapolate it to other non-armor metallic items.


The weapon version is called Everbright (+2000 GP, Magic Item Compendium pp. 34-35).

[VariSami]

On this, btw: an item that protects all your equipment from rust (that is, a gauntlet of rust that doesn't have the 1/d rusting grasp), is apparently 950 gp (or 1425 in a non-hands slot).

11500gp - 10080 for 1/d CL7 4th level spell = 1420, 1420/1.5 for being the cheaper ability of a two-ability item = 946, round up to 950. Note that your DM may hit you with a book.
Meh, sounds quite balanced to me. After all, both Blueshine and Everbright offer extra bonuses, and you would be burning an item slot for this. The protection is quite marginal, after all.

Also, Durable Armor in Dungeonscape only costs 500gp and protects your armor from dissolving and rusting.

[Beldernae]

everbright will help, but i dont need protection for my armor. main prob lem i have is whenever i use iron skin or iron body my dm decides, "hey!, let's be a butt and send a swarm of rust monsters on top of the primal elemental of fire!" -.- i won, but only because i manageed to pull of a miracle to call erythnuul. he took care of the rusties while i killed the primal elemental. >.>

[Maginomicon]

The acid-washed weapon construction property (http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/magweapdesc.pl?power=Acid_Washed&src=mweapontype) gives it a boost to resist rust (among other things).

[VariSami]

everbright will help, but i dont need protection for my armor. main prob lem i have is whenever i use iron skin or iron body my dm decides, "hey!, let's be a butt and send a swarm of rust monsters on top of the primal elemental of fire!" -.- i won, but only because i manageed to pull of a miracle to call erythnuul. he took care of the rusties while i killed the primal elemental. >.>

Your DM seems to be a sort of a d... Yeah. Basically, you could also try and have some kind of a permanencied "kill all rust monsters" aura with a custom magic item. But rather than that, I suggest a nice, serious talk with your DM about how his sense of humor seems to sit badly with you and your character.

[Red Fel]

Your DM seems to be a sort of a d... Yeah. Basically, you could also try and have some kind of a permanencied "kill all rust monsters" aura with a custom magic item. But rather than that, I suggest a nice, serious talk with your DM about how his sense of humor seems to sit badly with you and your character.

Seconding this.

Rust Monsters, like Disenchanters, are basically a remnant from older versions of D&D where "challenge your players" was often equated with "make every attempt to screw them over royally." Remember, there were (and some still are, although good DMs rarely use them) monsters which basically consisted of walls, ceiling and floor which wanted to eat you (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm).

Rust Monsters also fall into this category: A creature whose sole purpose is for the DM to screw over gear-dependent classes (looking at you, Fighters). A good DM may rarely use them, or use them situationally. A bad DM will throw them repeatedly at someone who uses a particular metal-related item or ability he doesn't like.

I stinks on ice, it's a jerk move, and it violates the unspoken agreement of "Don't try to deliberately screw over the characters for no reason, and I won't try to completely derail your carefully-built world scenario."

You shouldn't be forced to pay an item tax simply because your DM doesn't like your choice of abilities. I strongly advise you to sit down, and talk to the DM. Ask him why he keeps sending Rust Monsters after you. If he says it's because he feels that's an effective way to challenge you while using those abilities, explain to him that there are better, less sadistic and targeted ways to challenge the players. If he says it's because he doesn't like those abilities, you've got a problem; you can't very well make him like them, and if he approved you taking them, you shouldn't have to change them. One of you will have to yield, however, and most likely it will be you.

Rust Monsters. Jeez. Talking to me about Rust Monsters... grumblegrumble...

[Blackjackg]

Rust Monsters, like Disenchanters, are basically a remnant from older versions of D&D where "challenge your players" was often equated with "make every attempt to screw them over royally." Remember, there were (and some still are, although good DMs rarely use them) monsters which basically consisted of walls, ceiling and floor which wanted to eat you (http://www.headinjurytheater.com/article73.htm).

Rust Monsters also fall into this category: A creature whose sole purpose is for the DM to screw over gear-dependent classes (looking at you, Fighters). A good DM may rarely use them, or use them situationally. A bad DM will throw them repeatedly at someone who uses a particular metal-related item or ability he doesn't like.

For sure, a DM who repeatedly throws monsters that resist your strengths into every encounter is being a jerk, but I'm always a fan of throwing curveball encounters in here and there just to force your players to improvise. Golems ask the question "What do you have besides spells?" Rust monsters ask "What do you do when your front-line tank is cowering at the back?"

[Hangwind]

For sure, a DM who repeatedly throws monsters that resist your strengths into every encounter is being a jerk, but I'm always a fan of throwing curveball encounters in here and there just to force your players to improvise. Golems ask the question "What do you have besides spells?" Rust monsters ask "What do you do when your front-line tank is cowering at the back?"

Pray your wizard didn't ban Evocation:smallwink:

[Red Fel]

For sure, a DM who repeatedly throws monsters that resist your strengths into every encounter is being a jerk, but I'm always a fan of throwing curveball encounters in here and there just to force your players to improvise. Golems ask the question "What do you have besides spells?" Rust monsters ask "What do you do when your front-line tank is cowering at the back?"

Right. Doing this sort of thing situationally, say a single Rust Monster to remind your tank that he is not invincible, is appropriate and even fun. It gives other party members a chance to shine, and brings the beefstick down a peg. (Remember: Only you can prevent cruelty to melees.) Little things like that, done on occasion to keep players on their toes, are a sign of Good DMing.

Doing it frequently, or deliberately, becomes malicious, and is a sign of Bad DMing. It's like you mention with Golems. Throwing in a Golem once or twice, or maybe two Golems if you happen to be in the "Lair of the Golem Master," is entirely appropriate. Throwing them into every encounter for no apparent reason is just a giant middle-finger to your casters.

[Story]

Throwing them into every encounter for no apparent reason is just a giant middle-finger to your casters.

You mean rogues right? Casters don't really care much about golems.

[Red Fel]

You mean rogues right? Casters don't really care much about golems.

Casters care about this:


A [WHATEVER] golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

Then come various special effects.
Yeah. Smart casters care.

[Hammerpriest]

Casters care about this:

Yeah. Smart casters care.

Smart casters use SR:No spells.

[Zanos]

Smart casters use SR:No spells.
Smart casters prepare a decent number of SR: No spells. I highly doubt most intelligently played Wizards have a loadout that comprises entirely of SR: No spells and wouldn't be irritated if everything they fought every day was a golem.

[ArqArturo]

Yeah. Smart casters care.

This is why there's the mailman. And the warmage.

[Hammerpriest]

Smart casters prepare a decent number of SR: No spells. I highly doubt most intelligently played Wizards have a loadout that comprises entirely of SR: No spells and wouldn't be irritated if everything they fought every day was a golem.

If you venture into a dungeon and fight more than one golem and know that the dungeon continues deeper, it is your job as a prepared caster to back out and reprep your list for dealing with golems. Additionally, if you're not using divinations to ask questions like, "Will I fight golems today?" then you're not really preparing all that well for the dungeon.

Spontaneous casters that can't alter their lists have a lot less wiggle room here, but a single SR:nope spell in their lists at each various level can help them still affect the Golems. In addition, there's always the route of just buffing the meatstick pre combat, and dealing with all non-golems if that's all you have. Casters really don't mind golems as much as you think until they start emanating AMFs.

[rot42]

You might point your DM towards Mike Mearls' Monster Makeover for the Rust Monster (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dd/20060714a). It preserves the "approaching this encounter with nothing but metal swords and metal armor is a bad idea" aspect without being quite so punitive.

[Story]

Smart casters prepare a decent number of SR: No spells. I highly doubt most intelligently played Wizards have a loadout that comprises entirely of SR: No spells and wouldn't be irritated if everything they fought every day was a golem.

If you are a Conjurer then pretty much all your spells are SR:No. If you are a Transmuter, they're mostly buffs so you don't care about SR anyway.

In fact for my current character, his typical prepared spell list has only one SR:Yes spell (Ray of Enfeeblement) and one SR partial spell (Kelgore's Grave Mist) out of over a dozen spells.

At any rate, I'd be a lot less hosed then the party rogues.

[Red Fel]

If you venture into a dungeon and fight more than one golem and know that the dungeon continues deeper, it is your job as a prepared caster to back out and reprep your list for dealing with golems. Additionally, if you're not using divinations to ask questions like, "Will I fight golems today?" then you're not really preparing all that well for the dungeon.

Spontaneous casters that can't alter their lists have a lot less wiggle room here, but a single SR:nope spell in their lists at each various level can help them still affect the Golems. In addition, there's always the route of just buffing the meatstick pre combat, and dealing with all non-golems if that's all you have. Casters really don't mind golems as much as you think until they start emanating AMFs.

I'll acknowledge all that. A smart caster has options and is prepared for this eventuality.

A foolish or unprepared caster is hosed.

But even a smart caster who prepares SR:Nopenopenope spells, yes, even the Mailman, may become frustrated by Golems, if for no other reason than what is the justification for all of these freaking magic-immune monsters? If, as I said, it's the Lair of the Golem Master, or some other plot- or geography-relevant reason, that's fine. But just plunking out magic-immune after magic-immune monster feels malicious, and unjustified.

And returning to the OP, casters have the option of SR:Nuh-uh spells against Golems; melees and other gear-dependents often don't have that option against Rust Monsters, minus an item tax. They can't retreat back to the surface and prepare new gear the way casters prepare spells. They can't switch out their metal gear for wood on the fly the way spontaneous casters can pick different spells. If they haven't prepared for this, either with an item that resists rusts or an item coating that does the same, or a spell or buff or something, they are simply hosed or forced to wait out combat.

Should you prepare for such events? It wouldn't hurt. Much like a Wizard is wise (see what I did there?) to guard his Spellbook, a Fighter or similar class is wise to guard his gear against theft and destruction.

But how does that help our OP, who uses Iron Skin and Iron Body? Unless he acquires some spell, or some magic item, he can't simply slap Blueshine or Everbright on himself. And if the DM is hell-bent on bringing Rust Monsters against him, do you really think the DM will allow him to acquire those items? At least with spells, if you know it, you know it; how will the OP get the items he needs if the DM won't sell them to him?

[Cicciograna]

Send the Monk.
It will be a good riddance, whoever is killed.

[Twilightwyrm]

I think perhaps an elaborate set up to protect your body/gear from rust in said spells is unwarranted. Rust Monsters only have a +3 to any of their attacks, and even if this is a touch attack, boosting your touch AC to 23 or higher will mean they can only ever hit you on a natural 20 (there are various means of doing this). Additionally, if you/your party has access to spells like Iron Body, getting some kind of damaging aura shouldn't be difficult (Lighting Ring comes to mind). Rust Monsters only have 27 hp, so might high-level wizard environmental hazards should incapacitate or kill them. Throw one of these up, let the tides of Rust Monsters futilely throw themselves at your defenses, and be sure to thank your DM for the free XP. Alternatively, get a source of flying. Unless the Rust Monsters are flying as well, they can't hurt you if they cannot touch you.

Note: For weapons and armor, there are indeed enchantments to protect them from rust. OR, you could simply buy crystal/dragon craft weapons/armor, which are equal in price (in the case of the former) or give you some extra damage/buffs (in the case of the latter).

[Beldernae]

okay. talked to the dm. he said it was mostly to see how i would react, and that he simple expected me to run rather thantry for a miracle. he said he would have allowed me to run through the fire elemental at a dc 35 fort save and half my remaining hp, but i didnt consider that at the time. :smallconfused:

[Story]

There are monsters that liquefy crystal too.