Epic Level Challenge!

[blelliot]

Ive got an idea to run the short adventure "The Quicksilver Hourglass" from Dungeon 123. I want to run this as a 40th level adventure i nsted of a 30th. Now in order to do this, my players dont want to make any 40th level charachters, but are open to having pregenerated charachters. So here is my challenge to the playground: Make a 40th level pc using the following restrictions:
1. You must use all 20 levels of a base class, and once a base class is chosen, you cannot choose another. The other twenty levels must be prestige classes. Once a prestige class is entered, you must take it all the way to the end, so no dipping. One of these prestige classes must be one of the ones available to epic charachters. These classes are available in the Epic Level Handbook and Dragon 297. No prestige class can be taken beyond its normal end.
2. The following sources are available to you: PH1, PH2, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Champion, Complete Divine, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Warrior, Epic Level Handbook, Miniatures Handbook, Unearthed Arcana (For racial paragon classes only), Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Spell Compendium, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Sandstorm, Heroes of Battle, Heroes of Horror.
4. Any devotion feats will have a prerequisite of having access to the respective domain.
5. Your WBL is 13,600,000. You must have at least one item in each body slot.
6. Only races with a +0 LA are usable.
7. Stats are determined by point buy with 32 points.
8. No flaws and traits
9. No pun pun, for the sake of my sanity :smallbiggrin:
10. Have fun!
That's the rules, i will pick the winning four in one month's time to be used by my players, and will keep the winners updated on how things are going. Good luck!

[Urpriest]

By the way, why are you going for 40th level? Part of the reason the adventure is written for 30th level characters is because that's early enough in to Epic that the game isn't especially frayed. The first 30 levels are important because you're still limited based on how many Epic levels you have, so you're still heavily based on your prior capabilities. Level 40 is closer to the "extra levels are just more meaningless numbers" point.

[blelliot]

honestly, because I wanted to see those specific epic prestige classes taken to all ten levels. Just an itch I wanted to scratch.

[Emperor Tippy]

Literally the only epic PrC's that are in the sources you gave and are even worth considering are Cosmic Descryer and Agent Retriever. And even then Agent Retriever only makes the list because it gives a full 10 levels of spellcaster progression so do something like grab one level of Ur-Priest or Beholder Mage and then just advance it up with Agent Retriever and get some ever so slightly better class features.

And Cosmic Descryer only makes the list because of Cosmic Connection.

[Khatoblepas]

Honestly, the epic prestige classes are highly underwhelming. I wouldn't want to take them even if they were non-epic.

And 40th level epic is just a whole load of bookkeeping. Why not ask for help with specific builds with a prestige class? Your challenge is pretty dull, to be honest. 20 levels in a base class and no dipping anywhere? That locks out a wide variety of things and makes the challenge sort of pointless.

But sure, have some build stubs:
1)Druid 20/Planar Shepherd 10/Master of Many Forms 10 Take Epic Spellcasting, all the Epic Wildshape forms. Become everything with every spellcasting list.
The strongest of the builds.

2)Warlock 20/Ur-Priest 10/Eldritch Disciple 10 Take Shadowmaster, Epic Spellcasting.
Some neat tricks and clerical casting.

3)Duskblade 20/Mage of the Arcane Order 10/ Anything +10. Take Improved Spell Capacity until 9ths, then Epic Spellcasting.
A "gish" in the loosest sense of the word.

4)Wizard 20/Incantatrix 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Human Paragon 3
A standard epic caster.

I literally couldn't find a use for any of the epic prestige classes given the restrictions you gave.

[Emperor Tippy]

4)Wizard 20/Incantatrix 10/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Human Paragon 3
A standard epic caster.

I literally couldn't find a use for any of the epic prestige classes given the restrictions you gave.

Incantatrix isn't worth it in Epic. Use Genesis to make a plane that will apply Persistent Spell to everything you cast and then spend a feat on Improved Metamagic and you have the two main highlights of Incantatrix without giving up a school of magic or levels.

You are better off grabbing Cosmic Descryer. Cosmic Connection means 7 minutes + per day of arbitrarily high caster level. Combined with Delay Death and Favor of the Martyr and the most basic Epic Spell made with the Heal seed and you will even survive the experience.

---
Besides, once you hit epic you should pretty much count Factotum as a Wizard PrC. 11 levels of Factotum goes great on top of a Wizard.

[Khatoblepas]

Use Genesis to make a plane that will apply Persistent Spell to everything you cast

Okay, how? Time flowing planes I can understand, but where's the source for Persistent Spell on every spell? There are planes that Empower and Maximise spells, but none that Persist. I want to see the exact rules quote you're using there. I'm curious and a little skeptical.

[Emperor Tippy]

Okay, how? Time flowing planes I can understand, but where's the source for Persistent Spell on every spell? There are planes that Empower and Maximise spells, but none that Persist. I want to see the exact rules quote you're using there. I'm curious and a little skeptical.

The Enhanced Magic planar trait. With Arcane genesis you can create a Demiplane with it and you just pick Persistent as one of the ways that magic is Enhanced.

[Khatoblepas]

The Enhanced Magic planar trait. With Arcane genesis you can create a Demiplane with it and you just pick Persistent as one of the ways that magic is Enhanced.

You're right there.



If a spell is enhanced, certain metamagic feats can be applied to it without changing the spell slot required or the casting time.

Hmm. Couldn't you just apply every metamagic feat you know to every spell, not just Persistent Spell? So every spell on the plane could be Intensified, Extended and Persisted? It does say feats, after all.

[Emperor Tippy]

You're right there.



Hmm. Couldn't you just apply every metamagic feat you know to every spell, not just Persistent Spell? So every spell on the plane could be Intensified, Extended and Persisted? It does say feats, after all.

Yes.

I like using one that combo on my buff watch.

[Invader]

Why aren't your players making their own characters?

[Runestar]

Honestly, is there any difference between lv30 and lv40? :smallconfused:

[Jack_Simth]

Ive got an idea to run the short adventure "The Quicksilver Hourglass" from Dungeon 123. I want to run this as a 40th level adventure i nsted of a 30th. Now in order to do this, my players dont want to make any 40th level charachters, but are open to having pregenerated charachters. So here is my challenge to the playground: Make a 40th level pc using the following restrictions:
1. You must use all 20 levels of a base class, and once a base class is chosen, you cannot choose another. The other twenty levels must be prestige classes. Once a prestige class is entered, you must take it all the way to the end, so no dipping. One of these prestige classes must be one of the ones available to epic charachters. These classes are available in the Epic Level Handbook and Dragon 297. No prestige class can be taken beyond its normal end.
2. The following sources are available to you: PH1, PH2, Complete Adventurer, Complete Arcane, Complete Champion, Complete Divine, Complete Mage, Complete Scoundrel, Complete Warrior, Epic Level Handbook, Miniatures Handbook, Unearthed Arcana (For racial paragon classes only), Dragon Magazine, Dungeon Magazine, Spell Compendium, Frostburn, Stormwrack, Sandstorm, Heroes of Battle, Heroes of Horror.
4. Any devotion feats will have a prerequisite of having access to the respective domain.
5. Your WBL is 13,600,000. You must have at least one item in each body slot.
6. Only races with a +0 LA are usable.
7. Stats are determined by point buy with 32 points.
8. No flaws and traits
9. No pun pun, for the sake of my sanity :smallbiggrin:
10. Have fun!
That's the rules, i will pick the winning four in one month's time to be used by my players, and will keep the winners updated on how things are going. Good luck!

So... Cleric-20/Loremaster-20 or Wizard-20/Loremaster-20 would be valid, then?

[blelliot]

So... Cleric-20/Loremaster-20 or Wizard-20/Loremaster-20 would be valid, then?

No, I'm sorry, I should have said that no prestige class can be taken beyond 10, unless the. Prestige class has more than ten levels, such as true necromancer. Thank you for your question :-)

[blelliot]

Why aren't your players making their own characters?

The reason is that my players are very intimidated by making that high of a level charachter, and I'm attempting to ease them into high level play cuz I like high level play. I appear to be the only one on this forum who does, though:smalleek:

[ben-zayb]

How about Dread Necromancer 20/ Eldritch Master 10* / Rainbow Servant 10? Rule doesn't state that the first 20 levels must be base class, so start with the PrCs ASAP to nab the Druid, Cleric, and Wizard's spell list. Get Supernatural Miracle as a cherry on top.

*Eldritch Master is from DR280, I think (and the OP said DRs are allowed)


The reason is that my players are very intimidated by making that high of a level charachter, and I'm attempting to ease them into high level play cuz I like high level play. I appear to be the only one on this forum who does, though:smalleek:

I got this feeling that you aren't looking at the 3.5 recruitment subforum. I could've sworn that at least one Epic Gestalt/Tristalt attempt pops out per week.

[blelliot]

How about Dread Necromancer 20/ Eldritch Master 10* / Rainbow Servant 10? Rule doesn't state that the first 20 levels must be base class, so start with the PrCs ASAP to nab the Druid, Cleric, and Wizard's spell list. Get Supernatural Miracle as a cherry on top.

*Eldritch Master is from DR280, I think (and the OP said DRs are allowed)

Stat it out! I glanced at the eldritch master once, go with it. Should be fun :-) and no, I have not checked the recruitment boards.

[ben-zayb]

Stat it out! I glanced at the eldritch master once, go with it. Should be fun :-)

LOL apologies, but I'll pass. I'm just goofing around since it's my coffee break. :smallbiggrin:

Statting it out IMO is pointless because the build alone already brings enough to the table, so much that anything else is just for flavor.

[blelliot]

LOL apologies, but I'll pass. I'm just goofing around since it's my coffee break. :smallbiggrin:

Statting it out IMO is pointless because the build alone already brings enough to the table, so much that anything else is just for flavor.

Guess ill let the thread die. I thhought this would be a cool idea, but I must be the only one. Oh well. Such is life. Thanks to everyone who responded though.

[icefractal]

It's mainly two things:

1) Statting up a 20th level character is a hell of a lot of work. 40th level even more so, especially with the gigantic amount of shopping.

2) It's totally unclear what the balance-point is at epic, to the point where four separately created characters aren't going to fit together unless you lay out a somewhat detailed baseline to start with. For example, how should a 40th level Wizard be played?
A) Has Epic Mage Armor on, casts "Epic Fireball" for 40d6.
B) Has a couple dozen buffs on; when trouble strikes, he stops time, rearranges the battlefield, then leads off with 8x Enervation or something like that.
C) The Wizard you see is an Astral Projection, the real Wizard is on his ultra-fortified demiplane, with an army of controlled creatures and/or ice assassins ready to deploy as needed.
D) What? There is no Wizard, at least that's what all the divinations say. Sometimes a threat to the world abruptly dies when a ton of powerful stuff shows up out of nowhere, stomps it, and disappears again.

[dysprosium]

I've run the Quicksilver Hourglass and found it to be great fun for my players.

If I remember correctly it was a human Transmuter 15/Master Transmogrifist 10/Loremaster 5, a human Figher 30, a wemic Barbarian 20-something, and a human Ninja/Ninja Spy/Rogue (I forget the build stub). These characters had shattered the WBL (my fault totally but that's another story . . .)

Anyway, your challenge is not a bad one. Building epic characters from scratch takes time - lots of time if you want to make them correctly.

[Invader]

I see a couple of problems with the scenario though.

It sounds like your players are to lazy to make their own characters from your original post. You want people to do a TON of work for you. It takes me days to make a mid level character I'd imagine a lot of people in the playground are the same way. And lastly, you want to ease them into an epic game by raising the level 10 higher than the module and they're not making their own characters. This sounds like a horrible way to ease someone into an epic game :smallconfused:

[Sith_Happens]

And Cosmic Descryer only makes the list because of Cosmic Connection.

Superior Planar Summoning also looks like something that could lead to various fun shenanigans.

[elonin]

Why not just take 20 levels of commoner? Finish out with ten levels of Exemplar and ten levels of agent retriever.

[Menzath]

Well, my friends and I do this lvl40 challenge were we take them and pit them against a few different challenges and each other.
So I do have 8-10 lvl40's made already.
The problem: none follow your creation rules. But one. A pure lvl40 fighter(Yeah I went there).

Sure some could be changed slightly to fit, but they would lose a lot of what makes the builds.

PrC dips for casters at higher levels is all Gold. especially when you don't lose CL and just gain more abilities.

[Jack_Simth]

Superior Planar Summoning also looks like something that could lead to various fun shenanigans.
Let's see... the most restrictive requirement is that you have 24 ranks in Kn(The Planes). So you meet requirements at 21st, and can take your first level in it at 22nd.

At level 22, you can thus Greater Planar Bind... a Solar (22 HD), which is a CR 23 critter.

...

OK, yes, it's better than normal Greater Planar Binding. The HD count for Gate goes up... but it doesn't improve control, just how many HD you can snag.

So... really not too much tougher than what you could do with the required-for-entry Gate anyway.