Sorcerer quick fix [3.5 PEACH]

[ddude987]

Hello all, this is yet another fix for base classes that I mean to implement into my campaign setting (see signature). Let me know what you think of this quickfix


Sorcerer
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Sorcerer Heritage, Summon Familiar|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3||6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5||6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5||6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6||6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6||6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Bonus Feat|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7||6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9||6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Bonus Feat|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Bonus Feat|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6

[/table]


Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: 1d6

Class Skills
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a sorcerer’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below).

To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing five 0-level spells and three 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.

Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|7|5|1|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|7|5|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|8|5|3|2|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|8|6|4|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|9|6|4|3|2|—|—|—|—|—

9th|9|6|5|4|3|—|—|—|—|—

10th|9|6|5|4|3|2|—|—|—|—

11th|9|6|6|5|4|3|—|—|—|—

12th|9|6|6|5|4|3|2|—|—|—

13th|9|6|6|6|5|4|3|—|—|—

14th|9|6|6|6|5|4|3|2|—|—

15th|9|6|6|6|6|5|4|3|—|—

16th|9|6|6|6|6|5|4|3|2|—

17th|9|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|3|—

18th|9|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|3|2

19th|9|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|3

20th|9|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|4|4

[/table]

Sorcerer Heritage: At 1st level the sorcerer gains one of the following feats: Draconic Sorcerer Heritage, Celestial Sorcerer Heritage, Infernal Sorcerer Heritage, Fey Sorcerer Heritage. This feat represents the origin of the sorcerer's magic.

Summon Familiar: A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

The sorcerer chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.

If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcerer’s experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.

Bonus Feat: At level 5, and every 5 levels thereafter, a sorcerer gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a metamagic feat, or a heritage feat that coincides with your level 1 heritage feat.

The base heritage feats have been reworked. Let me know if I should buff them further or whatever else I should do to them. Thanks.

Renamed: The feats below have been renamed and reworked
Draconic Heritage - Draconic Sorcerer Heritage
Fey Heritage - Fey Sorcerer Heritage
Celestial Heritage - replaced by Celestial Sorcerer Heritage

Draconic Sorcerer Heritage [Heritage]
Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1
Benefit: You add one skill to your list of class skills for sorcerer from the list below. In addition you gain a +2 bonus on saves against paralysis or sleep effects.
-Disguise, Gather Information, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival

Celestial Sorcerer Heritage [Heritage]
Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1
Benefit: You add protection from evil to your list of 1st-level sorcerer spells known. You also gain a +2 bonus on saves against spells or abilities used by an evil source.

Infernal Sorcerer Heritage [Heritage]
Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1
Benefit: You add protection from good to your list of 1st-level sorcerer spells known. You also gain a +2 bonus on saves against spells or abilities used by a good source.

Fey Sorcerer Heritage [Heritage]
Prerequisite: Sorcerer level 1
Benefit: You add one Knowledge skill to your list of class skills for sorcerer. In addition you gain a +2 bonus on saves against mind effecting or compulsion spells and abilities.

[ngilop]

Heres a sorcerer table for you. just add in what ya need via cut/paste


Sorcerer
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Summon Familiar|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3||6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3||6|5|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4||6|6|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4||6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5||6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5||6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6||6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—|—

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6||6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—|—

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7||6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—|—

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7||6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—|—

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—|—

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8||6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—|—

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9||6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—|—

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—|—

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|—

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|—

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12||6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6

[/table]
Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d4

Class Skills:
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge(arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis),and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Spells Known
{table]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|4|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|5|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

3rd|5|3|—|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

4th|6|3|1|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

5th|6|4|2|—|—|—|—|—|—|—

6th|7|4|2|1|—|—|—|—|—|—

7th|7|5|3|2|—|—|—|—|—|—

8th|8|5|3|2|1|—|—|—|—|—

9th|8|5|4|3|2|—|—|—|—|—

10th|9|5|4|3|2|1|—|—|—|—

11th|9|5|5|4|3|2|—|—|—|—

12th|9|5|5|4|3|2|1|—|—|—

13th|9|5|5|4|4|3|2|—|—|—

14th|9|5|5|4|4|3|2|1|—|—

15th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|2|—|—

16th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|2|1|—

17th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|—

18th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|3|2|1

19th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|3|3|2

20th|9|5|5|4|4|4|3|3|3|3

[/table]
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Sorcerers are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor of any type interferes with a sorcerer’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.

Spells: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must (see below).

To learn or cast a spell, a sorcerer must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a sorcerer’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the sorcerer’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a sorcerer can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Sorcerer. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

A sorcerer’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A sorcerer begins play knowing four 0-level spells and two 1st-level spells of your choice. At each new sorcerer level, he gains one or more new spells, as indicated on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known. (Unlike spells per day, the number of spells a sorcerer knows is not affected by his Charisma score; the numbers on Table: Sorcerer Spells Known are fixed.) These new spells can be common spells chosen from the sorcerer/wizard spell list, or they can be unusual spells that the sorcerer has gained some understanding of by study. The sorcerer can’t use this method of spell acquisition to learn spells at a faster rate, however.

Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered sorcerer level after that (6th, 8th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the sorcerer “loses” the old spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level sorcerer spell the sorcerer can cast. A sorcerer may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells known for the level.

Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a sorcerer need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells he’ll cast.

Familiar: A sorcerer can obtain a familiar. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up magical materials that cost 100 gp. A familiar is a magical beast that resembles a small animal and is unusually tough and intelligent. The creature serves as a companion and servant.

The sorcerer chooses the kind of familiar he gets. As the sorcerer advances in level, his familiar also increases in power.

If the familiar dies or is dismissed by the sorcerer, the sorcerer must attempt a DC 15 Fortitude saving throw. Failure means he loses 200 experience points per sorcerer level; success reduces the loss to one-half that amount. However, a sorcerer’s experience point total can never go below 0 as the result of a familiar’s demise or dismissal. A slain or dismissed familiar cannot be replaced for a year and day. A slain familiar can be raised from the dead just as a character can be, and it does not lose a level or a Constitution point when this happy event occurs.

A character with more than one class that grants a familiar may have only one familiar at a time.


One thing that I think needs re-wroked.

I will never ever agree with a non int-based class that gets less than 4 skill points. Bump that up to 4 and you got a perfect sorc fix :)

[ddude987]

Thank you so much, this was very helpful :smallsmile:

[Cheiromancer]

I think the Celestial or Infernal heritage should supply Knowledge (the planes). Fey heritage should give Knowledge (Nature) and/or Knowledge (nobility and royalty).

I agree that sorcerers don't have enough skill points. Raising it to 4+Int would be a nice touch.

[Just to Browse]

You have given sorcerers more bonus feats and 2 skill points. This does not make them as good as wizards, and I can't see it bumping them down at all.

[ddude987]

You have given sorcerers more bonus feats and 2 skill points. This does not make them as good as wizards, and I can't see it bumping them down at all.

I don't rremember sayibg my goal was to make them as powerful as wizard. And why would aanyone bump sorc down? Wotc already shafted them enough. The point of this was to make them a bit better and have a bit more flavor

[Perseus]

I don't rremember sayibg my goal was to make them as powerful as wizard. And why would aanyone bump sorc down? Wotc already shafted them enough. The point of this was to make them a bit better and have a bit more flavor

Sorcerers are tier 2, so outside of small fluff/fun stuff ... They don't need anything and are fine the way they are.

Moar flavor would be great if you added in class features that don't come up much or are small bonuses but in terms of actual ability to contribute in and out of battle... Well the sorcerer doesn't need that and could be scaled back a bit.

This is due to spells mostly ... Err this is due to spells being insanely powerful.

[ddude987]

I wanted to change a few things I thought were wrong with sorcerer without changing its power level. Adding bonus feats are something I think sorcerer deserves and the heritage thing was mostly for flavor. Adding more spells known is just something that doesn't change the power level of Sorcerer to tier 1 but gives a little more leeway with spell selection. After playing and seeing sorc played it seemed like there are so few spells known that you cant pick fun spells after the necessary ones.

[Thunderfist12]

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d4
Class Skills:
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge(arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis),and Spellcraft (Int).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6
Class Skills
Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int)
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier


I think you placed this twice.:smallbiggrin:

Otherwise, cool revision. Kind of reminds me of the Pathfinder version, with less bloodline and more custom.

[Just to Browse]

"Fix" implies you have some sort of goal in mind. My assumed goals are either a) one benchmark above current level (wizard level), or b) 1+ benchmark below current level.

Since yours is neither of those, I either need a new assumed goal (what is it?) or this isn't a "fix".

[Perseus]

I wanted to change a few things I thought were wrong with sorcerer without changing its power level. Adding bonus feats are something I think sorcerer deserves and the heritage thing was mostly for flavor. Adding more spells known is just something that doesn't change the power level of Sorcerer to tier 1 but gives a little more leeway with spell selection. After playing and seeing sorc played it seemed like there are so few spells known that you cant pick fun spells after the necessary ones.

The Sorcerer doesn't need more leeway with spell selection. The point of the sorcerer is to know less spells because they don't have a book or a god to gain their spells from. Sure they aren't a wizard but the number of spells they get already make them a power house. I'm not sure why adding more is even a point. Most of the powerful spells are the fun spells with some minor exceptions (fireball... Though a fire vitriolic sphere is my preferred choice).

If you are fixing the sorcerer, the spell known is not an area that need fixing.

[ddude987]

"Fix" implies you have some sort of goal in mind. My assumed goals are either a) one benchmark above current level (wizard level), or b) 1+ benchmark below current level.

Since yours is neither of those, I either need a new assumed goal (what is it?) or this isn't a "fix".

My goal was to give sorcerer a class features list that modeled the wizard list. The fact that wizards got 5 bonus feats and were int based so had enough skill points and were better than sorcerer irked me. Instead of removing stuff from wizard, a class I think is balanced, I added things I thought sorcerer should have always had.


The Sorcerer doesn't need more leeway with spell selection. The point of the sorcerer is to know less spells because they don't have a book or a god to gain their spells from. Sure they aren't a wizard but the number of spells they get already make them a power house. I'm not sure why adding more is even a point. Most of the powerful spells are the fun spells with some minor exceptions (fireball... Though a fire vitriolic sphere is my preferred choice).

If you are fixing the sorcerer, the spell known is not an area that need fixing.

I see your point but I nor anyone at my table would take fireball when the spells known is so limited, regardless of fun or iconic level. With more spells known there would be more, and earlier, opportunity to take fun things like fireball because you can learn it early enough to be semi-helpful and have enough spells known to still pick up a bunch of goodies like haste, shivering touch, alter fortune, fly, blink.

[Cheiromancer]

Most of these changes are just minor tinkering that doesn't affect the class's balance, but which make sense. As you note, a sorcerer doesn't have the Intelligence of a wizard, and so will be way behind on skill points. An extra 2 skill points helps narrow the gap. A sorcerer is less bookish than a wizard, and so is physically tougher; a few extra hit points won't affect the balance of the class any more than a few skill points would.

The feats conceivably could make a difference in class balance, since feat-intensive tricks might come within reach, and prestige classes will be easier to get into. Still, I think it is fine to give them parity with a wizard.

The biggest area of concern I have is with the extra spells known. That is the key limitation on a sorcerer, and raising the limit by just a little can supercharge the sorcerer. Remember that a sorcerer is more flexible than it looks. It is not that hard for a sorcerer to gain access to other spells; knowstones, scrolls, wands, whatever. In a pinch limited wish can be used to emulate psychic reformation. These tricks are more effective the larger the number of spells the sorcerer begins with.

Rather than relaxing the key limitation on a sorcerer's power, I'd suggest finding another peripheral area to improve. Maybe give them medium BAB and the ability to wear light armor, or something.

[Just to Browse]

I see. I'd state that in the OP, because I don't think it's what people think of first when they read "fix".

[Perseus]

My goal was to give sorcerer a class features list that modeled the wizard list. The fact that wizards got 5 bonus feats and were int based so had enough skill points and were better than sorcerer irked me. Instead of removing stuff from wizard, a class I think is balanced, I added things I thought sorcerer should have always had.



I see your point but I nor anyone at my table would take fireball when the spells known is so limited, regardless of fun or iconic level. With more spells known there would be more, and earlier, opportunity to take fun things like fireball because you can learn it early enough to be semi-helpful and have enough spells known to still pick up a bunch of goodies like haste, shivering touch, alter fortune, fly, blink.

The only thing limiting the sorcerer (and really they can use magic items sooo...) is the fact that the player must choose between what spells to take. This gives the sorcerer a very very small setback to their insane power. It is their only check and balance and really each class should have a check and balance so that it doesn't become "whatever I do what I want". It adds in a layer of realism in context of the game that helps separate it from the other magical classes in core.

Sorcerers know spells based on innate talent, which means they can't/dont pull their magic from a book or a god. If you take all this away and give them more spells known or the ability to change their spells then you are actually taking away from what they are on a conceptual level and really only adding to their over all power that is already light years beyond most of the classes in the game.

It is kinda cheap.

Players shouldn't have everything, and sometimes you pick a less optimal spell so that it fits your character theme, you don't always need to be optimized. Most fantasy spell casters are not optimized like the theoretical work of people on the internet and it is possible to play a D&D game without shivering touch.

If you want to fix this class the spells are the furthest thing that needs fixing. Pathfinder did what you aim to do and the Sorcerer is basically a wizard now (and can hit tier 1 with the right build).