[PF] Cast Gate to let your Eidolon through?

[Frosty]

So...as a Summoner, you've got an intimate connection with your Eidolon, and (especially if you pimp out your Know: The planes) you probably know exactly what plane your Eidolon resides in when not with you, and generally where in that plane it is.

Now, let's say you were careless and you didn't either 1) Have someone cast Spell Immunity on your Eidolon to make it immune to Dismissal/Banishment or 2) Cast Dimensional Anchor on your Eidolon. Someone got rid of your Eidolon via ways other than damage. You are now FUBAR, and even if you cast Summon Eidolon, a mere Magic Circle against <X> can stop your Eidolon in its tracks.

So, why not use Gate to call your Eidolon back? Even with a low-ish point buy, you ought to have at least 10 uses of Gate per day at level 17+. You can open a 2-way portal to your Eidolon, and it can step through. Anyone see a problem with this?

[Craft (Cheese)]

This is hardly the worst thing you can do with a gate spell, even after PF's changes. I'd allow it.

[Frosty]

The only thing I'm worried about is possibly other people calling my eidolon with Gate. Can other people make my Eidolon do their bidding with a Gate spell?

[Craft (Cheese)]

Unique creatures (I'd say the Eidolon counts) are under no compulsion to come through the gate, but they can if they want to. So I'd say yeah, they can, but not without your eidolon's consent. (Hmm......)

However, don't forget that when you summon your eidolon you only summon an aspect of the creature, not the original. So even if your eidolon is off serving someone else for some reason, this shouldn't interfere with your ability to summon it. It WOULD, however, interfere with your ability to just gate it in, though no more than if your eidolon left home to get snacks or something.

[Keneth]

The real question is whether your eidolon retains its form when it returns back to the ether, or is it simply a featureless entity on its plane of origin?

[Frosty]

However, don't forget that when you summon your eidolon you only summon an aspect of the creature, not the original. So even if your eidolon is off serving someone else for some reason, this shouldn't interfere with your ability to summon it. It WOULD, however, interfere with your ability to just gate it in, though no more than if your eidolon left home to get snacks or something.For some reason the image of my eidolon going to to the corner market in Sigil to get snacks or something to hilarious :smallbiggrin:

To Craft (Cheese) and Keneth: For this particular campaign, the way I am fluffing with my DM is that this is *not* just an aspect of an outsider. It actually *is* the outsider (an Angel enslaved to do my character's bidding) that my Aasimar summoner has bound.

The way I figure it, my aasimar has created a demi-plane specifically to house the eidolon when it is not summoned.

Saranrae and Iomedae are NOT happy...

[Craft (Cheese)]

For some reason the image of my eidolon going to to the corner market in Sigil to get snacks or something to hilarious :smallbiggrin:

Eidolon: "Finally, I got my Balor Burrito! I've been waiting all month to be off the material plane long enough to finally get to eat one of these."

*Just as the eidolon is about to take a bite, it feels the tug of the summoner's calling*

Eidolon: "Nooooooooo!!!"

*The eidolon vanishes, the balor burrito falling to the floor, uneaten*


To Craft (Cheese) and Keneth: For this particular campaign, the way I am fluffing with my DM is that this is *not* just an aspect of an outsider. It actually *is* the outsider (an Angel enslaved to do my character's bidding) that my Aasimar summoner has bound.

The way I figure it, my aasimar has created a demi-plane specifically to house the eidolon when it is not summoned.

Saranrae and Iomedae are NOT happy...

In that case, it's up to your DM how this works: How I'd rule it is that your bond is strong enough that this wouldn't interfere with the summoning.

[Psyren]

The only thing I'm worried about is possibly other people calling my eidolon with Gate. Can other people make my Eidolon do their bidding with a Gate spell?

They can call AN Eidolon. If they try and call YOUR Eidolon (which is by definition unique, thanks to the sigil on its forehead) it can resist the call.

[Frosty]

Gate's wording is contradictory.
By naming a particular being or kind of being as you cast the spell, you cause the gate to open in the immediate vicinity of the desired creature and pull the subject through, willing or unwilling. The wording appears to say that you can name a particular being (like my eidolon), and willing or not it gets pulled through. I am confused :smallfrown:

[Craft (Cheese)]

Gate's wording is contradictory. The wording appears to say that you can name a particular being (like my eidolon), and willing or not it gets pulled through. I am confused :smallfrown:

Well, by "a particular being" that means a generic outsider you know the name of: You can call in any Balor, or you can specifically gate in your buddy Bob the Balor.

This is overridden by the specific rule that "deities and unique beings are under no compulsion to step through." The problem is in the exact definition of "unique being." Creatures like Demon Lords definitely qualify as unique beings, and specific balors like Bob definitely don't, but there are plenty of ambiguous cases.

How it applies here depends on whether you consider your eidolon to be a unique creature, or whether they're just a particular instance of an eidolon. Given the eidolon's bond with the summoner and their customizability, I'd say they're unique, but your DM may disagree.

[grarrrg]

So, why not use Gate to call your Eidolon back? Even with a low-ish point buy, you ought to have at least 10 uses of Gate per day at level 17+. You can open a 2-way portal to your Eidolon, and it can step through. Anyone see a problem with this?

Mainly technicalities that your DM may or may not approve.
Technically, your Summoner's Eidolon is only an "aspect" of the real being. And, presumably, this real being either has an actual form, or is formless.
In the case of a set form, it would have to already have mondo HD, and virtually all Evolutions available to it, and as your Summoning power grows, you are able to tap into more and more of it's potential.
To put it bluntly, the "real" creature may very well have higher than the 'controllable' limit set forth by Gate.
If it is 'formless', then you get a little extra wiggle room.

The other major issue, is that since you are summoning the actual real creature you run the risk of it DYING FOR REAL. You'd either need to them get a new Eidolon-buddy (DM smells "quest"), or go through Wish/deity shenanigans to get your old buddy back. In the meantime, no Eidolon for you!

DM gets the final say of course.

[Psyren]

My favored theory is that all eidolons are actually aspects of the same eldritch horror entity. It forms pacts with summoners to gain the same kind of foothold/sensation of the mortal realm that vestiges do with binders. This also explains why all eidolons are distinct in appearance from each other and every other creature out there - their lovecraftian ties give them free rein to have all kinds of impossible and mutable physiologies.

[Frosty]

My favored theory is that all eidolons are actually aspects of the same eldritch horror entity. It forms pacts with summoners to gain the same kind of foothold/sensation of the mortal realm that vestiges do with binders. This also explains why all eidolons are distinct in appearance from each other and every other creature out there - their lovecraftian ties give them free rein to have all kinds of impossible and mutable physiologies.
I *do* love this idea, although as I have stated in an earlier post, this particular eidolon is a real creature, an angel I've enslaved. The fact that it is summoned means it doesn't really die in my service, thank goodness.

Hmm...if an eidolon truly dies, I wonder if True Res can bring it back.

[grarrrg]

My favored theory is that all eidolons are actually aspects of the same eldritch horror entity. It forms pacts with summoners to gain the same kind of foothold/sensation of the mortal realm that vestiges do with binders.

That was one of the possibilities I had considered...
GIT OUTTA MAH BRAIN!

[Crake]

I *do* love this idea, although as I have stated in an earlier post, this particular eidolon is a real creature, an angel I've enslaved. The fact that it is summoned means it doesn't really die in my service, thank goodness.

Hmm...if an eidolon truly dies, I wonder if True Res can bring it back.

Considering it's defined as an outsider, I don't see why true res wouldn't work.

[Spuddles]

If a called eidolon dies in the material, does it die forever?

[Frosty]

Dunno. I'm not sure SKR ever thought about this rule interaction :smallbiggrin:

[StreamOfTheSky]

Now, let's say you were careless and you didn't either 1) Have someone cast Spell Immunity on your Eidolon to make it immune to Dismissal/Banishment or 2) Cast Dimensional Anchor on your Eidolon. Someone got rid of your Eidolon via ways other than damage. You are now FUBAR, and even if you cast Summon Eidolon, a mere Magic Circle against <X> can stop your Eidolon in its tracks.

Dimensional Anchor doesn't protect it from being banished. Dim Anchor explicitly says it's not supposed to let you guard summons from being banished/dismissed. Any "RAW" argument to the contrary is basically steeped in the teensy-weensy little technicality that Dim Anchor was written before the summoner class and eidolons existed and thus expecting it to account for them in its wording is just plain sil.....HEY look over there! *casts Distraction*

[Frosty]

Dimensional Anchor doesn't protect it from being banished. Dim Anchor explicitly says it's not supposed to let you guard summons from being banished/dismissed.If that's actually true, then I'd follow that ruling. However, I see no such wording at all in the spell description in d20pfsrd. Nor is there a sidebar talking about an FAQ ruling for it.


A green ray springs from your hand. You must make a ranged touch attack to hit the target. Any creature or object struck by the ray is covered with a shimmering emerald field that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred by a dimensional anchor include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. The spell also prevents the use of a gate or teleportation circle for the duration of the spell.

A dimensional anchor does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If that's actually true, then I'd follow that ruling. However, I see no such wording at all in the spell description in d20pfsrd. Nor is there a sidebar talking about an FAQ ruling for it.

Like I said...

Your basic argument is, "they didn't do an FAQ on it yet, so nyah!"

"Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell."

But go ahead, get hung up on the last word in that sentence and completely ignore the rest. "An eidolon's not a spell!", right? :smallannoyed:

[TuggyNE]

"Also, dimensional anchor does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell."

But go ahead, get hung up on the last word in that sentence and completely ignore the rest. "An eidolon's not a spell!", right? :smallannoyed:

No, it's not that. It's that dismissal/banishment are very definitely not the same thing as disappearing at the end of a spell, and only the former was under consideration at all.

[Frosty]

Eidolons do not have a Duration anyways unless summoned by the spell Summon Eidolon. Please read the Summoner class more carefully :smalltongue: