Lichification (and other templates) and Age Categories

[Kevka Palazzo]

So I just finished reading Start of Darkness, and I had a thought while they were discussing Xykon becoming a lich.

Are the ability score changes from aging permanent, or are they a side-effect of being in a different age category? I would assume the latter since then you'd get all sorts of weird questions if you were able to de-age yourself.

Or, more in a more relevant example, if you're an Ancient human who gets liched, do your ability scores stay the same before they get modified by the lich template?

I guess this is something of a cast-by-case thing, since the Aging Effects bit in the SRD doesn't mention your age changing.

[Jack_Simth]

By and large, it's simply not addressed in the rules. You'll need to do the same thing you do with anything else not addressed in the rules: Ask your DM.

If you are the DM, make a call that seems good for game balance, stick with it (unless it's demonstrated to cause a problem), and move on.

[Annos]

Old = weaker bones. But your bones are magically enhanced so it goes to rule 0

[holywhippet]

That's an interesting question which is hard to answer given the lack of rules on the subject. It should be noted that the one spell which can directly make you young again is the reincarnate spell (which returns you to being a young adult). It doesn't change your stats aside from racial adjustments unless you lose CON from having been a level 1 character when you died.

Given RAW I'd have to say you don't lose the stat changes from aging when you become undead. I could see an argument for losing the stat penalties maybe, but the bonuses to int/wis shouldn't be lost I'd have thought.

[Zanos]

RAW Undead have no special rules for their age categories. They lose Dex/Str as they move up age categories, and yes I know that sounds stupid.

I don't think I could find rules text that even says that applying the Undead type removes a creatures maximum age.

I think basing it off the Timeless Body that druids get would probably be reasonable. You continue to gain mental bonuses, and keep any physical penalties you already accrued, but don't take further physical penalties.

[ArqArturo]

Old = weaker bones. But your bones are magically enhanced so it goes to rule 0

But, there are spells that make bones stronger (I don't remember the names, but I think they're in the Spell Compendium).

[Ravens_cry]

But, there are spells that make bones stronger (I don't remember the names, but I think they're in the Spell Compendium).
Iron bones, giving +5 to a target undead's skeleton. I remember it because there was a cool picture of an army of iron skeletons (very shades of Terminator) and a necromancer in fur ruffed robes.

[Jack_Simth]

RAW Undead have no special rules for their age categories. They lose Dex/Str as they move up age categories, and yes I know that sounds stupid.

I don't think I could find rules text that even says that applying the Undead type removes a creatures maximum age.
Correct. Fluff-wise, one of the big draws of becoming a vampire or lich is to become immortal and keep Mr. Grim off your back. Crunch wise, no mention is made that it changes your ageing rate or ageing consequences, so technically by RAW a human Lich or vampire dies of old age at an age of 70+2d20 years. That is, however, expected to be an oversight in the rules as written (especially with the number of references to really old liches and really old vampires in both fiction and various modules), so most DMs house rule it away.


I think basing it off the Timeless Body that druids get would probably be reasonable. You continue to gain mental bonuses, and keep any physical penalties you already accrued, but don't take further physical penalties.
That's a decent way to do it.

[Fouredged Sword]

I do the same, with keeping anything currently accrued, but not changing anything else.

Also note, having a lich continue to age would be cool. Consider death by old age. They would just come back, but still remain old. They would slowly degrade until they are dieing every year, but keep coming back. It would be immortality, but at such a cost.

[PraxisVetli]

I do the same, with keeping anything currently accrued, but not changing anything else.

Also note, having a lich continue to age would be cool. Consider death by old age. They would just come back, but still remain old. They would slowly degrade until they are dieing every year, but keep coming back. It would be immortality, but at such a cost.

Reminiscent of Ra's al Ghul in a way.
Could be some great fluff, definately a fun villian story hook.