WarKitty
2013-10-14, 11:29 PM
My first try, for reference: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-177134.html
So I'd like to redo the project, since last time I got too busy. I think I'll use nedz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16186179&postcount=28)'s floor/ceiling terminology, instead of straight-out ranking. Start with the core classes in 3.5. Note that these only take build optimization into account - the cleric who sits around only casting heal spells is still a Tier 2 character, despite not using his abilities effectively. I am also assuming very basic competency (don't play a Str 8 fighter, don't try to make your low-leveled wizard an armored tank).
With thanks to JaronK for his tier system. Classes ceiling generally matches up with his system, though I've chosen to generally ignore whether another class can do the job better when I rank.
Barbarian: Middle/Middle. You've got decent abilities that can be affected by optimization, but you're probably still reasonably effective at your job even without it.
Bard: Low/High. If you choose the wrong spells and go about your feats badly, you're basically stuck singing for a minor bonus the whole game. If you do a lot of work, you can be a master diplomancer/charmer/illusionist, or a massive pile of bonuses, and still have some very good abilities when your thing doesn't work. Skill points plus spells is a win.
Cleric: High/Very High. At your worst you're a decent melee fighter who can cast any spell you prepared, as well as cure spells. At your best, your gamebreaking ability is second only to the wizard.
Druid: Very High/Very High. Really, you get wild shape and an animal companion for free. Plus you're a divine caster, which means you know every spell on your list. Fully optimized, you don't have quite the game-breaking tricks as the other tops, but you should still be able to break the world quite easily.
Fighter: Very Low/Medium. Plain and simple, your main class feature is your feats. Choose well and you can manage to be quite effective at your job. Choose badly, and you're going to spend a whole game bouncing your sword off things.
Monk: Very Low/Very Low. Sorry, you just kind of suck. A master optimizer might be able to make a monk effective at their own job.
Paladin: Very Low/Low. With the right feats you can hit almost effectively as a fighter, and you've got a few extra tricks. But MAD issues plus the feat dependence of melee builds make you very easy to mess up, and mounts aren't nearly as useful as companions or even familiars (especially since they require feats to use effectively).
Ranger: Medium/Medium. You've got some MAD issues. Your animal companion isn't great. But you do have an animal companion, and you have some limited divine spellcasting. Your spells are generally better than the paladin's. How well your fighting style works depends on how well you invest in it.
Rogue: Very Low/Medium. Sneak Attack is nice but not wonderful. You've got MAD problems, which can really hurt if you don't know how to fix them. That said, you've got lots and lots of skills, which can be powerful if you know how to use them right. Various feats can really reduce the abilities you need. And with some optimization sneak attack can actually be made pretty useful, inflicting status effects as well as damage.
Sorcerer: Very Low/High. Basically, how you pick your spells matters. For everything.
Wizard: (variable)/Very High. The floor here really depends on how easy the DM makes it to get spells. If you don't get a lot of chance to scribe new spells, you can basically end up in the same boat as the sorc. A clever player should be able to both get very useful spells and find tricks to get more of them, however. At the top of optimization, the wizard is a god among mortals.
So I'd like to redo the project, since last time I got too busy. I think I'll use nedz (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16186179&postcount=28)'s floor/ceiling terminology, instead of straight-out ranking. Start with the core classes in 3.5. Note that these only take build optimization into account - the cleric who sits around only casting heal spells is still a Tier 2 character, despite not using his abilities effectively. I am also assuming very basic competency (don't play a Str 8 fighter, don't try to make your low-leveled wizard an armored tank).
With thanks to JaronK for his tier system. Classes ceiling generally matches up with his system, though I've chosen to generally ignore whether another class can do the job better when I rank.
Barbarian: Middle/Middle. You've got decent abilities that can be affected by optimization, but you're probably still reasonably effective at your job even without it.
Bard: Low/High. If you choose the wrong spells and go about your feats badly, you're basically stuck singing for a minor bonus the whole game. If you do a lot of work, you can be a master diplomancer/charmer/illusionist, or a massive pile of bonuses, and still have some very good abilities when your thing doesn't work. Skill points plus spells is a win.
Cleric: High/Very High. At your worst you're a decent melee fighter who can cast any spell you prepared, as well as cure spells. At your best, your gamebreaking ability is second only to the wizard.
Druid: Very High/Very High. Really, you get wild shape and an animal companion for free. Plus you're a divine caster, which means you know every spell on your list. Fully optimized, you don't have quite the game-breaking tricks as the other tops, but you should still be able to break the world quite easily.
Fighter: Very Low/Medium. Plain and simple, your main class feature is your feats. Choose well and you can manage to be quite effective at your job. Choose badly, and you're going to spend a whole game bouncing your sword off things.
Monk: Very Low/Very Low. Sorry, you just kind of suck. A master optimizer might be able to make a monk effective at their own job.
Paladin: Very Low/Low. With the right feats you can hit almost effectively as a fighter, and you've got a few extra tricks. But MAD issues plus the feat dependence of melee builds make you very easy to mess up, and mounts aren't nearly as useful as companions or even familiars (especially since they require feats to use effectively).
Ranger: Medium/Medium. You've got some MAD issues. Your animal companion isn't great. But you do have an animal companion, and you have some limited divine spellcasting. Your spells are generally better than the paladin's. How well your fighting style works depends on how well you invest in it.
Rogue: Very Low/Medium. Sneak Attack is nice but not wonderful. You've got MAD problems, which can really hurt if you don't know how to fix them. That said, you've got lots and lots of skills, which can be powerful if you know how to use them right. Various feats can really reduce the abilities you need. And with some optimization sneak attack can actually be made pretty useful, inflicting status effects as well as damage.
Sorcerer: Very Low/High. Basically, how you pick your spells matters. For everything.
Wizard: (variable)/Very High. The floor here really depends on how easy the DM makes it to get spells. If you don't get a lot of chance to scribe new spells, you can basically end up in the same boat as the sorc. A clever player should be able to both get very useful spells and find tricks to get more of them, however. At the top of optimization, the wizard is a god among mortals.