Replacing Malack

[davidbofinger]

Tarquin's business model relies on having three teams, and he might not want to have any of the teams just one person on their own. Supposing Team Tarquin survives the next couple of dozen strips, Tarquin may want to recruit someone to replace Malack.

The obvious candidates, in roughly decreasing order of likelihood, are:

Durkula (who turned down one job offer, but might feel differently about the second)
Sabine, in disguise, plotting to kill Tarquin
a resurrected Zz'dtri
I guess we can't rule out Leaky Windstaff though he seems unlikely
a resurrected Nale (unlikely for multiple reasons)
Thog is possible only if Laurin likes him for some reason and makes him her favour, apart from the fact he's missing presumed missing

Anyone else?

[strijder20]

'Supposing team Tarquin survives the next couple of dozen strips...'

Awfully bad timing after yesterday's comic.

[Bulldog Psion]

Tarquin's pushing far too hard here. He's a dead man walking, IMO.

If he were to survive, though, I don't think it would be anyone on that list.

1. Durkula's got his own agenda, which includes the gates and possibly vengeance on the dwarves for kicking him out.
2. Sabine probably couldn't get a disguise good enough to survive around Tarquin's ring of true seeing, since she's not particularly high level.
3. I doubt Tarquin would resurrect someone who tried to overthrow him and make him a trusted part of an extremely dangerous scheme.
4. Leeky Windstaff probably would eschew the offer, since there is a notable lack of trees in the area, and he seems to be a forest fanatic.
5. Nale ... just no.
6. Thog would bring nothing to the scheme but the whiff of incipient disaster.

[Ramien]

I find it more likely Tarquin would end up working on his own and let the other four stay paired up. None of the names on the list would be likely for the other members of the group to accept them as equals, which would be required for proper teamwork.

[factotum]

2. Sabine probably couldn't get a disguise good enough to survive around Tarquin's ring of true seeing, since she's not particularly high level.


A Ring of True Seeing allows you to see through magical disguises. When Sabine shape-shifts into another form, is that not effectively a completely mundane disguise? It's not like she's putting an illusion of someone or something over herself, she's actually physically transforming into the other thing! The only thing that would "see through" that would be an anti-magic field, IIRC, which would force her to revert to her true form.

[rodneyAnonymous]

A Ring of True Seeing allows you to see through magical disguises. When Sabine shape-shifts into another form, is that not effectively a completely mundane disguise? It's not like she's putting an illusion of someone or something over herself, she's actually physically transforming into the other thing! The only thing that would "see through" that would be an anti-magic field, IIRC, which would force her to revert to her true form.

It is not a mundane disguise. It's a supernatural (magic) ability.

Also:


"...sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things..." (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/trueSeeing.htm)

[Souhiro]

I think that Sabine may disguise herself among Tarquin's troops, just waiting for the opportunity and draing his father in law dry.

Maybe, only MAYBE, they will use an undead Nale.

And don't forget! They must recruit Ayk-Ayk the kobold!

[Kish]

In the unlikely event that Tarkie's team remains a concern long enough for them to fill their gap (Linear Guild 2: Electric Bugoloo, sigh...)...

...it would need to be a divine spellcaster. And I don't think Durkon would find an offer from Tarquin any more appealing than he found the one from Nale.

[Sr.medusa]

No one remembers Hylga? so disappointing...

[Kish]

Hilgya was more-Chaotic-than-Evil Chaotic Evil; if she was in the area, why ever would she ally with Tarquin? If Rich posted, "Hilgya is going to pop up in the Empire of Blood," my thought would be, "I guess Ian's found an ally."

[davidbofinger]

In the unlikely event that Tarkie's team remains a concern [...] I don't think Durkon would find an offer from Tarquin any more appealing than he found the one from Nale.

He probably wouldn't accept, because he has to bring Death and Destruction to the Dwarven Lands. But it makes more sense than the Linear Guild offer did. Phrase it as, "I'd be honoured if you would take the place of your good friend and mine."

Whether Tarquin and his team survive depends to a large extent on the nature of Elan's secret plan. Unless we can figure that out I don't think we can guess the nature of Tarquin's defeat, which means we don't know if he'll be dead or friendless or what.

[Souhiro]

Should Hylga appear, she would go to Durkula, and would start to spam Rebuke Undead on him, until he aggrees to be with her again.

[Mike Havran]

I think Zz'dtri would make a good fit. He's in condition where a Raise Dead will work and I don't think he was such a devoted follower of Nale so he'd refuse an offer to co-rule mighty empires. Tarquin may even throw in an allegiance with the drow, as he mentioned before. Also, he's a cool character and would be nice to see him back.

Or, in a pinch, take one of the Malack's acolytes and levelgrind him/her.

[Trillium]

I think Zz'dtri would make a good fit. He's in condition where a Raise Dead will work and I don't think he was such a devoted follower of Nale so he'd refuse an offer to co-rule mighty empires. Tarquin may even throw in an allegiance with the drow, as he mentioned before. Also, he's a cool character and would be nice to see him back.

Or, in a pinch, take one of the Malack's acolytes and levelgrind him/her.


You can't levelgrind Zz'dtri. He auto-levels when V levels. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html)

[Mike Havran]

You can't levelgrind Zz'dtri. He auto-levels when V levels. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html)
I didn't mean Zz'dtri, but the accolyte (we see a couple of those here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html). Z is powerful enough. The highest accolyte might be about Kilkil's level Cleric, so he needs a little beef-up to keep with the rest.

[Trillium]

I didn't mean Zz'dtri, but the accolyte (we see a couple of those here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0735.html). Z is powerful enough. The highest accolyte might be about Kilkil's level Cleric, so he needs a little beef-up to keep with the rest.

Ah sorry. I'm tad slow today. =/

[johnbragg]

Let's consider what roles Malack filled for Team Tarquin.

1. High-level divine caster
2. Co-ruler of Tarquin's slice of the Empire.
3. Someone to keep an eye on Tarquin on behalf of the other 4.
4. Someone they can trust with the secret of the Three Empires con.

1 is obvious, and probably the easiest to replace, even though it means possibly leaving your raising/resurrecting in questionable hands.
2 and 3 mean someone that an evil party trusts enough not to go into business for themselves, the way Nale tried to.
4 is probably least important--there are probably a score of folks in each of the three capitals who know who the real authority is, and have seen the members of Team Tarquin come and go with the approval of those authorities.

Team Tarquin's Three Empires con works because the six members of the team had enough history together to at least mostly trust each other. That's wwhat's next to impossible to replace.

[David Argall]

Team Tarquin should have a score of subordinates who can step into their shoes. Tarquin has his kobold accountant and there should be others. These assistants are unlikely to be of epic level, but Tarquin's scheme can really be run by minions. Time to replace the Empress? The low levels ask in some high level party, who make shoe leather out of her, and then are told that everything is too unimportant for their attention while the wimps find another party of high level to remove them.
So the most likely answer is "somebody we have never heard of". Of those we have heard of, Elan is Tarquin's son, Durkon is a high level evil cleric, Z is a drow, and nobody trusts drow [including, indeed especially, other drow] and the job requires lots of trust, Thog was an idiot and the job calls for brains [Haley can provide that for Elan], and Sabine is just going to be that tricky, if she even has the free time to try.

[hoff]

I'm surprised Tarquin did not made a joke about even Belkar, the plucky halfling comic relief, overshadowing Elan.

[JT]

All Tarquin needs to do is visit the local drinking establishment, where chance demands that an appropriate level evil cleric, possibly a vampire, happens to be drinking blood wart tea.

[Ramien]

Team Tarquin should have a score of subordinates who can step into their shoes. Tarquin has his kobold accountant and there should be others. These assistants are unlikely to be of epic level, but Tarquin's scheme can really be run by minions. Time to replace the Empress? The low levels ask in some high level party, who make shoe leather out of her, and then are told that everything is too unimportant for their attention while the wimps find another party of high level to remove them.


Low levels really can't run the scam to the same degree as Tarquin - They would have no real control if, for example, the party they hired to kill the Empress of Blood ended up deciding they wanted to rule instead and kicked the weak advisers out of their places of power. As Tarquin said "Power I can't access is no power at all." That goes double for power that can't be reliably controlled.

[rodneyAnonymous]

You can't levelgrind Zz'dtri. He auto-levels when V levels. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0581.html)

Nothing there says Crystal couldn't earn XP any other way than "the link". Z'zdtri could totally have gotten higher level than Vaarsuvius. It is not that both of them always have to be the same level, it is that the adversary has to at least the same level as the PC.

It is just a one-panel joke about recurring villains in RPGs, when you see them they often have advanced at roughly the same pace that you did.

[Cerussite]

Should Hylga appear, she would go to Durkula, and would start to spam Rebuke Undead on him, until he aggrees to be with her again.

And she'll stand there doing that while he bolsters himself. Mmmm...

[David Argall]

Low levels really can't run the scam to the same degree as Tarquin - They would have no real control if, for example, the party they hired to kill the Empress of Blood ended up deciding they wanted to rule instead and kicked the weak advisers out of their places of power. As Tarquin said "Power I can't access is no power at all." That goes double for power that can't be reliably controlled.
There would be some risks of course, but the most likely scenario is...
"My lord, these are the inventories from Town A. We need to check then to make sure nobody is stealing too much. Do you want to spend all night doing that? Or do you want to tell me to do it while you check out the dancing girls?"
Lots of people want people to bow to them, but very few actually want to do the necessary work. [Not just people. Scientists tell of this baboon who was very clever in working himself up to #2, where he had a soft life. He never challenged #1, who was to die in office, and he had to be forced to do the work when he finally did become #1.] So it should be very easy to get the heroes to delegate the actual work [which is what we see with the Empress]. So pretty soon, everyone is obeying the clerk and Lord Hero is just seen at all the celebrations. & the local habit is to change Lord Heroes every few years.

[Ramien]

There would be some risks of course, but the most likely scenario is...
"My lord, these are the inventories from Town A. We need to check then to make sure nobody is stealing too much. Do you want to spend all night doing that? Or do you want to tell me to do it while you check out the dancing girls?"
Lots of people want people to bow to them, but very few actually want to do the necessary work. [Not just people. Scientists tell of this baboon who was very clever in working himself up to #2, where he had a soft life. He never challenged #1, who was to die in office, and he had to be forced to do the work when he finally did become #1.] So it should be very easy to get the heroes to delegate the actual work [which is what we see with the Empress]. So pretty soon, everyone is obeying the clerk and Lord Hero is just seen at all the celebrations. & the local habit is to change Lord Heroes every few years.

I guess I see the more likely scenario to be more along the lines of "I'm going to sit here and watch the dancing girls while my nephew/other noncombatant family member comes along and takes over the bookkeeping. Pray I don't alter the deal any further."

Not to mention the skills necessary to be able to pick and choose which adventurers to approach and keep under control would require at least some decent skill levels, so they could be high level NPC classes, but still decently high level.

[Chantelune]

Thog : Tarquin doesn't work with loose canon. :smalltongue: Even if he's still alive. If so, best way for T to use him would be to tell him that it was "talky man" who killed Nale and let him loose after Roy if he didn't managed to kill him and survived the fight himself.

None of the other seems fit, as already explained by others. Might be someone new that would be introduced for the occasion, though even if Tarquin and his pals survive their bouts with the order just to go back to their own little scheme, I doubt we would see them much after that. That's not their story.

[angry_bear]

Level doesn't really matter for what Tarquin's doing right now in the Empires. Look at Azure City, Kubota (sp?) and Hinjo had NPC levels, and were completely useless in combat, but were able to rule a city, and run their own house effectively. It didn't end well for them, but that's not really important.

So long as they work at ensuring the new guy's survival when it's time for a regime change, Team Tarquin could have a level 1 commoner as their new member so long as he knows how to maintain the scam. Besides, I'm not sure if it really matters since Tarquin probably isn't going to last much longer.

[johnbragg]

Level doesn't really matter for what Tarquin's doing right now in the Empires. Look at Azure City, Kubota (sp?) and Hinjo had NPC levels, and were completely useless in combat, but were able to rule a city, and run their own house effectively. It didn't end well for them, but that's not really important.

So long as they work at ensuring the new guy's survival when it's time for a regime change, Team Tarquin could have a level 1 commoner as their new member so long as he knows how to maintain the scam. .

I wouldn't go so far as a Level 1 commoner, but I think a mid-to-high level person would fill the role adequately. Let's take Kilkil as an example. He was hitting Z regularly with crossbow bolts while dual-weilding, so he has a pretty decent base attack bonus. Let's say he's an Expert 10. So he probably has max ranks in the diplomancy package (Bluff, Diplomacy, Sense Motive), good Knowledge skills, etc. He's already Chancellor of the Empire of Blood, so he's experienced at managing his superiors.

The big question is, how much would Miron, Laurin, Jacinda and Shield Guy trust Kilkil? And that's probably a factor of how long Kilkil has been a high-level functionary for Tarquin/EOB, how long he's been going along with the scheme.

Or possibly there's another functionary elsewhere in the Three Empires who's "made his bones" in a way that Kilkil has not.

[Shale]

Uh....the one who shot Z with crossbows was Yukyuk.

[johnbragg]

Uh....the one who shot Z with crossbows was Yukyuk.

Aaah. Then Kilkil just has to *hope* he has the skills to pay the bills as an almost-full member of Team Tarquin. Or the skill ranks, or whatever.

[F.Harr]

I'm surprised Tarquin did not made a joke about even Belkar, the plucky halfling comic relief, overshadowing Elan.

It wouldn't be a laughing matter for Tarquin.

[Breccia]

I'm not convinced Tarquin would even try to fill that gap. He's been working with these guys for a long time. They're trusted, or at least reliably bribed, by Tarquin and have been for years. While Tarquin implied himself he could probably find Mailick, the 13th-level pale-skinned troglodyte wight cleric of the Asmodeus (or whatever) at the very next tavern, he doesn't seem the type for generic replacements in his own team.

Miron owes Tarquin a huge favor. Tarquin is about to owe Lauren one, which he accepted on face value, taking a trusted friend would not ask for something completely unreasonable. These are things you can't do with blank-template replacements.

So if the replacement is to be someone both Tarquin and we, the audience, know, that basically leaves Sabine. He's known Zz'driti, Durkon, etc. for...weeks? Days? How long has it been? Certainly not years. Nor does he show any amount of trust, or desire to work with, any of them. But he has worked with Sabine in the past, and might call her on to fill the vacancy, maybe even expecting her to disguise herself as Malack to keep things politically calm.

Now...that'd be a huge mistake, of course. But Tarquin doesn't seem to know that. Yet. I just don't see him calling on anyone else that we've actually heard of.

[David Argall]

I guess I see the more likely scenario to be more along the lines of "I'm going to sit here and watch the dancing girls while my nephew/other noncombatant family member comes along and takes over the bookkeeping. Pray I don't alter the deal any further."
The nephew/family member is routinely in the seat right next to the hero as the dancing girls come on stage. There can be exceptions, but routinely such people are neither competent or inclined to do the work. Take part of the loot, definitely, but they are not often a threat to the scheme.

Not to mention the skills necessary to be able to pick and choose which adventurers to approach and keep under control would require at least some decent skill levels, so they could be high level NPC classes, but still decently high level.
Now in D&D rules, there is often a confusion between good at killing monsters and good at everything, but this is just game flaw. The bureaucrat expert who barely knows which end of the sword to use is still routine in the game. Note that in most of our adventures the patron is able to select your party as the ones able to do the task almost sight unseen. So the skill -find level appropriate adventurers- is widespread even low levels have plenty of ranks in it.

[Ramien]

Now in D&D rules, there is often a confusion between good at killing monsters and good at everything, but this is just game flaw. The bureaucrat expert who barely knows which end of the sword to use is still routine in the game. Note that in most of our adventures the patron is able to select your party as the ones able to do the task almost sight unseen. So the skill -find level appropriate adventurers- is widespread even low levels have plenty of ranks in it.

Except most of that skill involves just handing it to the first group who says they're interested, and if it doesn't work, the next group has more treasure they can earn when they do it.

That and you're missing the point I'm trying to make - I'm not worried about level-appropriate adventurers; I'm worried about finding level appropriate adventurers who won't betray you when they've got the nominal reins of the empire. That requires at least some skills in sense motive, and bluff to keep them from realizing you're pulling their strings.

The bureaucrat in question would likely be a mid to high level expert - there are NPC classes that don't focus on combat for a reason.

[Jay R]

But at the end of the day, we all know that the next tavern he visits will have 2-4 new companions near the same level just hanging around. And I'm sure that the lizardfolk cleric Fralack with the vampire template will be a fine addition to his team. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0917.html)

[Ramien]

But at the end of the day, we all know that the next tavern he visits will have 2-4 new companions near the same level just hanging around. And I'm sure that the lizardfolk cleric Fralack with the vampire template will be a fine addition to his team. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0917.html)

That only works for adventures - not running kingdoms.

[JCAll]

I'm not convinced Tarquin would even try to fill that gap. He's been working with these guys for a long time. They're trusted, or at least reliably bribed, by Tarquin and have been for years. While Tarquin implied himself he could probably find Mailick, the 13th-level pale-skinned troglodyte wight cleric of the Asmodeus (or whatever) at the very next tavern, he doesn't seem the type for generic replacements in his own team.

Miron owes Tarquin a huge favor. Tarquin is about to owe Lauren one, which he accepted on face value, taking a trusted friend would not ask for something completely unreasonable. These are things you can't do with blank-template replacements.

So if the replacement is to be someone both Tarquin and we, the audience, know, that basically leaves Sabine. He's known Zz'driti, Durkon, etc. for...weeks? Days? How long has it been? Certainly not years. Nor does he show any amount of trust, or desire to work with, any of them. But he has worked with Sabine in the past, and might call her on to fill the vacancy, maybe even expecting her to disguise herself as Malack to keep things politically calm.

Now...that'd be a huge mistake, of course. But Tarquin doesn't seem to know that. Yet. I just don't see him calling on anyone else that we've actually heard of.

Tarquin has known Z for a while, while he was posing as the Elven Ambassador. Z is a powerful character, smart, loyal, and can probably be useful for winning the support of the Drow nation.

Of course, Z would almost certainly totally screw him over. But Tarquin tends to underestimate people's loyalty to his son.

[Chantelune]

That only works for adventures - not running kingdoms.

They're adventurers. Technically, everything they do count as an adventure. :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

I'm not worried about level-appropriate adventurers; I'm worried about finding level appropriate adventurers who won't betray you when they've got the nominal reins of the empire.
This would seem to be the easy part. What do adventurers do besides sit in taverns and risk their lives? We can assume a lot of training, research, and practice, but why would they spend much time on how the government runs or proper social policy?
They are now king? That entitles them to use the palace as their tavern, and maybe take on some really tough monsters, but all these boring reports... That's for somebody else. Why should they betray you? Indeed, how can they? They are going to want Fifi, a practice field, and not to be bothered until some big monster appears.

[Shale]

There's a fine line between running the bureaucracy and deciding who to make war on and when to throw, for instance, a giant bread-and-circuses celebration for one of your underlings' kids. And judging from the history of the continent, there's a not inconsiderable number of people with class levels who would prefer to have all the power.

[Zmeoaice]

Tarquin has known Z for a while, while he was posing as the Elven Ambassador. Z is a powerful character, smart, loyal, and can probably be useful for winning the support of the Drow nation.

He might have known Z before Nale's party turned against him. He knew Thog and Yikyik

[davidbofinger]

Tarquin has known Z for a while

Does he know Z helped Nale kill Malack? Laurin presumably does.

[Zmeoaice]

Does he know Z helped Nale kill Malack? Laurin presumably does.

Well, that would make him top of the food chain (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0625.html) of the evil clergy.