[3.5] Melee Character That Does No Damage?

[Kyouhen]

Ok, so first a bit of background:

I'm playing in a pretty low-powered campaign and after having a pair of bad deaths in one session due to lack of decent equipment/ability scores/etc I decided to do what any sane person would do when your character is going to be an outlaw starting with all of 3 gold: I made a soulknife.

The DM was allowing the Pathfinder soulknife (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/classes/soulknife), including variants, so I went a little silly and made an Armoured Shielded Blade. Stupidly good AC, half decent damage output, all looking quite nice. Had little to no hp and had to cover my super squishy psion partner but it was going quite well as long as the enemy couldn't hit me. Ended up dropping to negative near the end of every encounter, but was able to keep everyone tied up long enough for the psion to do his work so it was working out well enough. Then I went and broke open a bunch of boxes that hit me with some unpleasant curses that we don't seem to have any way to get rid of. (Remove Curse doesn't exist in this world) The one that's really concerning is the one that reduces all damage I deal by half, and I wasn't exactly geared to murder to begin with.

So that leaves me with a level 9 soulknife with minimal damage output. What I'm looking for is ways to just ignore the fact that I do little damage and still be a threat in combat. My current plan is to grab the Emulate Melee Weapon blade skill to turn my mindblade into a spiked chain, then go wild with the Bladestorm skill to just trip everyone in the room. Grab improved trip for more shenanigans. I'm just wondering if you guys have any better/more interesting ideas for what I could pull.

Conditions: Feats are at a bit of a premium at this level, anything that mostly relies on my Blade Skills would be preferable. I can still afford a single level dip into Fighter for a quick bonus feat but probably can't dip into too much else. My current build isn't geared too much towards most prestige classes, and the DM has banned spellcasting classes (not psionic classes) for this campaign as well as a handful of others (Warshaper :smallfrown:) so adding another class is probably not going to work. Any ideas?

[Zombulian]

If your dex is decent or if you could pick up the Mighty Throw feat, emulating a Talenta or Zen'drik boomerang with your mindblade and picking up Boomerang Daze would be pretty great for a shutdown character.

[sambouchah]

What is your current feat selection?

[Psyren]

To be blunt, I advise you reroll/retrain. Damage is really all Soulknives are designed to do, and if you're perma-cursed to not even be good at that, you're probably not going to have a lot of fun in a fight (unless you don't mind being carried by the party.)

At a minimum I would try and add the Gifted Blade archetype so that you at least have some powers you can use (notably Expansion) and combine those with your tripping idea for some kind of melee controller. But even then you'll be relying on your party to actually finish the enemies off, and there are some enemies this won't work on at all. I assume you're using the 3.5 Spiked Chain and not the PF one.


As far as a general nondamaging melee character, Monk of the Lotus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-lotus) from PF is another class built around this concept. You can even combine Soulknife with MotL by dipping Deadly Fist, choosing Focused Offense and maxing your Wis score to make a character that can pacify monsters with a touch and do bonus nonlethal damage with Merciful unarmed strikes.

[Slipperychicken]

Non-removable homebrew curses which cripple your character? Banned spellcasting but not Psionics?

You might want to learn the spell Summon Better GameMaster.

[Psyren]

Non-removable homebrew curses which cripple your character? Banned spellcasting but not Psionics?

You might want to learn the spell Summon Better GameMaster.

To be fair there's nothing really wrong with the latter as long as there are still ways to access things the game expects you to have, like curse removal. (@ OP: augmented PF Dispel Psionics can remove curses - much like GDM can - as can Bend Reality.)

[sambouchah]

I didn't see anyone suggest Reality Revision, assuming you could figure out a way to pay for a manifesting. The undo misfortune effect seems like it could remove your curse for you.

[Psyren]

I didn't see anyone suggest Reality Revision, assuming you could figure out a way to pay for a manifesting. The undo misfortune effect seems like it could remove your curse for you.

As I mentioned in my post, less powerful (and thus cheaper) effects can remove curses in psionics.

[Artillery]

Going around cursed already is a real way to deal with curse preemptively.

I think 50% dmg is outside the realm of reasonable for bestow curse. Just because its 50% doesn't make it comparable to the example given.

Also only one curse can be active on you at a time, bestow curse doesn't stack.

[Prince Gimli]

I feel the most important thing here is communicating with your DM. Something like "Hey I'm not having fun playing a character that I feel is gimped". This way you're telling him how you feel, and then you can tell him what you like. And this way he doesn't need to feel attacked, because you're not saying "your campaign sucks" or "this curse you put on me is retarded!" or something like that. You're just saying 'hey the way things are going I am not having fun and I would like to have fun while playing, so can we work something out?"

If he will listen and is reasonable, you guys can work out something together that will make the game fun for everybody. With a little creativity you can turn this setback into an epic adventure or quest where your character goes to overcome this curse and come out all that much stronger and more awesome.

The most important thing I imagine is having fun - if you're not having fun at the game table, you can work something out. If you keep not having fun, it's okay to stand up for yourself and go "Nothing personal dude,I am just not having fun here so I am going to find myself a game in which I will find fun". You have no obligation whatsoever to keep playing if you're not enjoying yourself. It's supposed to be a game, in which you are allowed to have fun even!:smallsmile:

[TroubleBrewing]

I think 50% dmg is outside the realm of reasonable for bestow curse.

Going by an amateur statistics perspective, losing 50% of your turns is the same as dealing 50% damage with each attack. In fact, it's slightly less harsh, because you won't lose any swift or move actions to the curse.

[Psyren]

What Prince Gimli said.



I think 50% dmg is outside the realm of reasonable for bestow curse.

Well, one of Bestow Curse's listed effects is to make you do nothing 50% of the time. So 50% damage is actually in line with that.

The problem is not the curse itself, but there being no way to remove it in this campaign.

(Lurk'd)

[sambouchah]

As I mentioned in my post, less powerful (and thus cheaper) effects can remove curses in psionics.

Oops! Didn't even notice that, my bad:smalltongue:

[Kyouhen]

If your dex is decent or if you could pick up the Mighty Throw feat, emulating a Talenta or Zen'drik boomerang with your mindblade and picking up Boomerang Daze would be pretty great for a shutdown character.

Tempting, though Boomerang Daze's DC is based on damage dealt and I'm not sure how much I trust that. (That and I would need to get proficiency with either of those boomerangs to grab it anyway)


What is your current feat selection?

Current feat selection is a little scrambled at the moment: Able Learner (Granted by DM on the grounds that changelings should have access to it), Improved Toughness, Mind Blade Kensai (3rd party feat, Practiced Spellcaster for mind blades), Persona Immersion, Racial Emulation, Shield Specialization and Shield Ward.

When this character was put together our party was still getting started at being evil (it's an evil sandbox campaign), though I don't think Persona Immersion or Racial Emulation are going to be useful anymore since apparently everyone is suspicious of changelings right now, so my entire plan of being a sneaky assassin-type thing has been thrown out the window.


To be blunt, I advise you reroll/retrain. Damage is really all Soulknives are designed to do, and if you're perma-cursed to not even be good at that, you're probably not going to have a lot of fun in a fight (unless you don't mind being carried by the party.)

At a minimum I would try and add the Gifted Blade archetype so that you at least have some powers you can use (notably Expansion) and combine those with your tripping idea for some kind of melee controller. But even then you'll be relying on your party to actually finish the enemies off, and there are some enemies this won't work on at all. I assume you're using the 3.5 Spiked Chain and not the PF one.


As far as a general nondamaging melee character, Monk of the Lotus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-lotus) from PF is another class built around this concept. You can even combine Soulknife with MotL by dipping Deadly Fist, choosing Focused Offense and maxing your Wis score to make a character that can pacify monsters with a touch and do bonus nonlethal damage with Merciful unarmed strikes.

Already putting together a backup character for when this guy dies. I'd love to follow any of those suggestions but my Wis ended up being my dump stat, so not getting very far there.


Non-removable homebrew curses which cripple your character? Banned spellcasting but not Psionics?

You might want to learn the spell Summon Better GameMaster.


To be fair there's nothing really wrong with the latter as long as there are still ways to access things the game expects you to have, like curse removal. (@ OP: augmented PF Dispel Psionics can remove curses - much like GDM can - as can Bend Reality.)

Custom campaign setting. Our characters are required to be psionic, and are more or less the only known psionic beings in existence. Magic exists but we don't get to take spellcasting classes and being evil don't really have access to anyone who can cast spells. Remove Curse/Heal/various other spells don't exist. The plane we're on is ruled by some magic goddess who's enchanting everyone's food to keep them docile and to repress any psionic abilities that they might have. We've managed to break loose and are now wreaking havoc.

This of course leaves the problem that there's no magic version of Remove Curse, and there's pretty much nobody capable of casting any psionic variations (if I could argue those into existing in the first place)



The most important thing I imagine is having fun - if you're not having fun at the game table, you can work something out. If you keep not having fun, it's okay to stand up for yourself and go "Nothing personal dude,I am just not having fun here so I am going to find myself a game in which I will find fun". You have no obligation whatsoever to keep playing if you're not enjoying yourself. It's supposed to be a game, in which you are allowed to have fun even!:smallsmile:

Oh, I'm having fun. He tends to do this often, then I do something silly to counteract it and stuff spirals out of control really fast. At the moment I'm liking the idea that if they try to hit me with anything that blocks my mind blade powers it might turn off the curse too. I lose all my shiny magic bonuses, but can still make my Will save to sustain my equipment anyway, and now I'm not cursed too. :smalltongue:

My current plan over the next few levels is likely to grab Emulate Melee Weapon: Kusari Gama so I have the reach and trip of a spiked chain but can still use my shield, then dropping the Wounding property on it and picking up Knife To The Soul for some more fun. Everyone trying to kill us is a Wizard, so I'll pick up Mage Slayer and go to town. Not sure if the curse applies to ability damage that I deal, but even if it does it doesn't take many hits of Con damage to put someone out of a fight. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

Well, you didn't tell us that if he hits you the curse might fall off. We can't really offer accurate advice if we don't know the extent of your houserules.

[Zombulian]

Totally forgot about how the DC was decided for Boomerang Daze. Ignore me!

[Kyouhen]

Well, you didn't tell us that if he hits you the curse might fall off. We can't really offer accurate advice if we don't know the extent of your houserules.

I meant if he hits me with a null psionics/antimagic field that the curse will probably go away while I'm in it, not that it'll completely go away. I don't think I'll be able to make it completely go away. :smalltongue:

[Psyren]

I meant if he hits me with a null psionics/antimagic field that the curse will probably go away while I'm in it, not that it'll completely go away. I don't think I'll be able to make it completely go away. :smalltongue:

What good will that do though? Having full damage is pointless if you can't use your blade. And even if you make the will save to sustain it, it just becomes masterwork.

[Captnq]

Poison.

Pick up the WSAs assassination/toxic/virulent and poison the crap out of people. Who cares what your damage is if you are doing 1d10 con damage a blow?

Check out my sig for my weapon handbook. It includes a poison handbook. I highly suggest bloodspikes. You can put poison inside them, then put injury poison on the outside.

I suggest Drow Arrow Poison (as opposed to drop knock out poison).

If you are on a budget, get some poison maker skill and stock up on Salvo. Cheap, easy to make, and variable effect with a halfway decent fort save. Combined with Assassination and you can get the save DC up to 20.