3.5 psion lvl 12

[Valaroma]

Hello everyone,

i am starting a campaign in a while in 3.5 edition and i will be playing a lvl 12 psion.
As a i am completely new to this an especially in psionic classes i would like any
build for a lvl 12.

My dm has proposed psion 7/metamind 5 bur metamind class really sucks.

So my main problem is as to what path to choose: psion fr all 12 lvls and all the way or to choose any other prestige class such as anarchic initiate, thrallherd or cerebremancer? (these three seem the best but i have 2nd thought s of cereb due to late access in higher lvl powers n spells).
Also which discipline? (telepath,egoist, shaper? other?)
The most important question is which discipline suits better with what prestige
(if any)?

Any info/ proposed build would be usefull guys.

I know that there are experienced player among you that can really help me.

Thank you

[Vaz]

Metaminds capstone is broken however. Losing Manifester levels doesn't hurt as much as Caster levels thanks to Practised Manifester giving you bonus PP. But they still do suck.

It depends what you want to do however. I like running Psionics in one of two ways; either as a Shaper (Constructor PrC) or as a Shapechanger - metamorphic transfer and metamorphosis allows a few broken combinations; it however works better on a Wilder or Ardent due to lost ML not affecting them as badly as it does another xharacter, plus you get a better BAB.

At ML12, War Trolls (12HD) are about the best shape possible; even with MTransfer you get Pounce, Rake and a Strength score out the wazoo.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Psion Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0), it's actually the first result when you google that exact phrase. The biggest thing to remember is that you can never spend more powerpoints than your manifester level on a given power. That means with a manifester level of 12, you cannot augment a power to more than 12 total powerpoints. This includes the power's base cost plus any metapsionic feats' cost plus the cost of any augmentations applied. There are effects that provide a bonus to your manifester level (Overchannel feat, Wild Surge class feature) and effects that reduce the cost of your powers which permit you to augment them a bit more (Torc of Power Preservation item, Earth Power feat). Don't count on there being a lot of these things available to a single character.

You basically want to go Psion 5/ Anarchic Initiate, which is in Complete Psionic. You qualify via the feat Overchannel, which should be taken at your Psion 5 bonus feat if you didn't swap it for an alternate class feature, or at 3rd in that case. At 8th level you pick Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) as your power known, and immediately manifest it to pick a different feat in place of Overchannel, and also to pick a different power in place of Psychic Reformation. You can do this every time you gain a level to repick something from a previous level that you want to replace. Anarchic Initiate's own Wild Surge class feature will meet its own prerequisite, which is why you no longer need Overchannel. Get the feat Quick Recovery from Lords of Madness, which allows you to spend a move action to shake off the Dazed condition from Psychic Enervation when it happens. After Anarchic Initiate 10 get Paragnostic Apostle in Complete Champion.

You want to know the powers Vigor and Share Pain, and get Psicrystal Affinity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalAffinity) for probably a Hero Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals). Keep the psicrystal in a compartment on your person so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and can never target it directly or hit it with area effects. Keep Share Pain active on the psicrystal at all times so you take half damage from all sources, the psicrystal's Hardness 8 reduces every instance of damage it takes from Share Pain by that much regardless of the original attack's type. When you manifest Vigor you can share it with the psicrystal just like any other buff, giving you a huge hp cushion.

Read through that handbook I linked to decide on your race, discipline, powers, etc. I'd personally suggest a Warforged with two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Insomniac and Bravado (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)) to get the feats Adamantine Body and Psiforged. Be a Shaper, use Psionic Minor Creation to make piles of Black Lotus Extract (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison) which you can throw at opponents to great effect. Keep in mind Warforged are immune to poison, among other things, so you can do this safely. You can use the extremely efficient Psionic Repair Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm) power on yourself and even share it with your Psicrystal. Use the Personal Construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) alternate class feature at Psion 5 so you can make your best Astral Construct as a swift action (as though quickened) instead of its normal 1-round manifesting time.

[Psyren]

Metamind is a trap - even with Practiced Manifester and even with the free manifestations, you lose PP, PK and ML vs. straight Psion, your three most important resources. Either use the PF version or just forget it, Font of Power is cool but isn't worth 9 levels of suck and delayed progression to get there.

[Fouredged Sword]

Font of power can be abused if you can get it to last forever (and I remember a power somewhere that extended the duration of all effects one round as a swift action)

[Emperor Tippy]

Unless you are going to break Font of Power (which you can do), Metamind should never be taken.

[Rubik]

Unless you are going to break Font of Power (which you can do), Metamind should never be taken.That is, until you hit epic, in which case it's totally worth it...assuming you don't use illithid savant to grab FoP instead. So long as you have 20 levels in a psionic class, you don't gain power points anyway (unless you multiclass, so take a level of wilder, then progress with metamind).

I tend to keep Psychic Reformation on me at all times post-7th level, as I find the extra access to powers and feats extremely handy. It can be combined with Linked Power or Psionic Contingency (or Craft Contingency, if you have the magic mantle or can use it otherwise) for an instant character rebuild. Very handy.

I also very much enjoy shaper/constructor (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b), as it's one of the most versatile builds you can have without entering T1. Nabbing the Thief's Gloves soulmeld lets you search for traps, and you make an incredibly useful skillmonkey, using your powers to do things that put the rogue to absolute shame at early-mid levels and beyond. It works especially well if you think outside the box and use your powers to your utmost advantage.

[Valaroma]

Psion Handbook (http://www.brilliantgameologists.com/boards/?topic=10238.0), it's actually the first result when you google that exact phrase. The biggest thing to remember is that you can never spend more powerpoints than your manifester level on a given power. That means with a manifester level of 12, you cannot augment a power to more than 12 total powerpoints. This includes the power's base cost plus any metapsionic feats' cost plus the cost of any augmentations applied. There are effects that provide a bonus to your manifester level (Overchannel feat, Wild Surge class feature) and effects that reduce the cost of your powers which permit you to augment them a bit more (Torc of Power Preservation item, Earth Power feat). Don't count on there being a lot of these things available to a single character.

You basically want to go Psion 5/ Anarchic Initiate, which is in Complete Psionic. You qualify via the feat Overchannel, which should be taken at your Psion 5 bonus feat if you didn't swap it for an alternate class feature, or at 3rd in that case. At 8th level you pick Psychic Reformation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicReformation.htm) as your power known, and immediately manifest it to pick a different feat in place of Overchannel, and also to pick a different power in place of Psychic Reformation. You can do this every time you gain a level to repick something from a previous level that you want to replace. Anarchic Initiate's own Wild Surge class feature will meet its own prerequisite, which is why you no longer need Overchannel. Get the feat Quick Recovery from Lords of Madness, which allows you to spend a move action to shake off the Dazed condition from Psychic Enervation when it happens. After Anarchic Initiate 10 get Paragnostic Apostle in Complete Champion.

You want to know the powers Vigor and Share Pain, and get Psicrystal Affinity (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#psicrystalAffinity) for probably a Hero Psicrystal (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm#psicrystals). Keep the psicrystal in a compartment on your person so opponents will never have line of sight/effect to it and can never target it directly or hit it with area effects. Keep Share Pain active on the psicrystal at all times so you take half damage from all sources, the psicrystal's Hardness 8 reduces every instance of damage it takes from Share Pain by that much regardless of the original attack's type. When you manifest Vigor you can share it with the psicrystal just like any other buff, giving you a huge hp cushion.

Read through that handbook I linked to decide on your race, discipline, powers, etc. I'd personally suggest a Warforged with two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm) (Insomniac and Bravado (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30)) to get the feats Adamantine Body and Psiforged. Be a Shaper, use Psionic Minor Creation to make piles of Black Lotus Extract (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#poison) which you can throw at opponents to great effect. Keep in mind Warforged are immune to poison, among other things, so you can do this safely. You can use the extremely efficient Psionic Repair Damage (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicRepairDamage.htm) power on yourself and even share it with your Psicrystal. Use the Personal Construct (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070411a) alternate class feature at Psion 5 so you can make your best Astral Construct as a swift action (as though quickened) instead of its normal 1-round manifesting time.

Thank you m8 for your guidelines, they are really usefull and i look to it.
Anyhow i have concluded to the following :
1. discipline: shaper
2. PCs: anarchic initiate or constructor, most prob i will go with the initiate
3. race: warforged or synad (i also like kalashtar but the dm not really)
The drawback of warforges is that i will not be able to wear any other armor/robe and the penalties to charisma and wisdom (not really sure if they matter at all)
Of course we will have around 90k of gp for items (if you can give some advise for items i would be grateful)

For feats adamantine body looks really cool as well as expanded knowledge for
metamorphosis (combined with chaotic surge looks pretty powerful)
What other feats would you recommend for a shape5r/anarchic initiate7 apart
from Psicrystal Affinity,adamantine body and expanded knowledge.
Finally apart from intelligence in what other ability slould i pay attention (maybe charisma??)

Thank you in advance

[Fouredged Sword]

Int > Con > Dex really. Nothing else really matters.

[Emperor Tippy]

Int > Con > Dex really. Nothing else really matters.

Meh, you can dump Con if you want.

Gray Elf Psion with Faerie Mysteries Initiate is great.
Elan Psion is quite good at surviving thanks to Resilience and Resistance, at least until it reach's the point of multiple attacks being a real issue, and by then you shouldn't be taking HP damage anyways.

At level 15+ you can just run around with Persistent Delay Death and Persistent Favor of the Martyr (gained via Psychic Chirurgery from a Spell to Power Erudite that got FotM via a wyrm wizard) and ignore HP damage pretty much entirely.

At lower levels you have Vigor.

All you really end up taking a hit to is your Fort save, which does admittedly such but the difference between 8 Con and 14 Con is 3 points on the Fort save; relevant but not massive.

10 Con before items or inherent bonuses really does tend to be more than enough if you are somewhat smart about it, especially after about level 3 or so.

[Fouredged Sword]

I should have said INT >>>>>>> Con > dex.

Seriously though, your point buy caps the max int you can buy. The rest of the points have to go somewhere.

[Emperor Tippy]

I should have said INT >>>>>>> Con > dex.

Seriously though, your point buy caps the max int you can buy. The rest of the points have to go somewhere.

Int -> 10's for everything -> Dex tends to be the most optimal PB for an Int based caster like the Psion.

Tweaking done dependent upon actual PB or rolls, specific build requirements (feat requirements and the like), and specific build.

[Valaroma]

Int -> 10's for everything -> Dex tends to be the most optimal PB for an Int based caster like the Psion.

Tweaking done dependent upon actual PB or rolls, specific build requirements (feat requirements and the like), and specific build.

Of course i will optimize intellegince.
I was thinking that dex could be important for the ranged attacks.

[Emperor Tippy]

Of course i will optimize intellegince.
I was thinking that dex could be important for the ranged attacks.

Generally, as a Wizard or Psion you are going to die in one or two hits pretty much regardless of how you are built. Unless you go Gray Elf + FMI for Int to HP you are never going to have enough to eat attacks from equal CR enemies.

That being the case, reducing the likelihood that an attack will hit you is far more useful than surviving attacks that hit you.

Dex ups your initiative, which means fewer enemies get to engage you. Dex ups your AC (including touch AC), which means that fewer attacks will hit you; until you are plus or minus 20 points of AC over average CR AB, every point of AC is a 5% chance of an attack missing you. Dex contributes to reflex saves. Dex contributes to a number of useful skills. Dex is relevant to most every attack role that a caster is ever going to be making.

Int, Dex, Con/Wis, Cha, Str. That is the order of stat importance for any Int based caster.

[Valaroma]

Generally, as a Wizard or Psion you are going to die in one or two hits pretty much regardless of how you are built. Unless you go Gray Elf + FMI for Int to HP you are never going to have enough to eat attacks from equal CR enemies.

That being the case, reducing the likelihood that an attack will hit you is far more useful than surviving attacks that hit you.

Dex ups your initiative, which means fewer enemies get to engage you. Dex ups your AC (including touch AC), which means that fewer attacks will hit you; until you are plus or minus 20 points of AC over average CR AB, every point of AC is a 5% chance of an attack missing you. Dex contributes to reflex saves. Dex contributes to a number of useful skills. Dex is relevant to most every attack role that a caster is ever going to be making.

Int, Dex, Con/Wis, Cha, Str. That is the order of stat importance for any Int based caster.

Thank you gor your reply, which noted.
As i was thinking of a warforged as a race the dex contribution to composite plating is +1 if i rememeber correctly.
But anyhow dex is surely usefull all over.

Do you believe astral construct is a good power in high levels?
We reach until 20 (we start frm lvl 12) fr sure and i do not know astral construct's efficiency since they go until 9th lvl monsters (CR 10).
Therefore i am little sceptic for this power which is proposed by every1.
I am thinking a shaper n prestige anarchic initiate with warforged or synad race.
Any advise about it?

Thank you