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Valairn
2007-01-02, 11:57 AM
I know there are some threads on here that have how to optimize this particular prc, but I'm having trouble finding them, anyone help me out?

Marius
2007-01-02, 01:00 PM
If I were you I would play a beguiler. But if you really wish to play an arcane trickster you could go with rogue 3/wizard 5/arcane trickster 10/archmage 2
And take practiced spellcaster!

Pegasos989
2007-01-02, 02:41 PM
I haven't seen it (some FR material I have heard) but I have heard that
rogue 1/Wizard 5/Guild thief 1 would get to the PrC... Then, archmage level or two at some point.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-02, 02:46 PM
I know there are some threads on here that have how to optimize this particular prc, but I'm having trouble finding them, anyone help me out?

Nowadays it's actually feasible, done mainly with the Unseen Seer PrC from Complete Mage. Builds look something like Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10/Arcane Trickster 5 or Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 4/Arcane Trickster 10, depending. I'd go with the former.

Marius
2007-01-02, 02:47 PM
Yeah or rogue 1/ninja 1 (sudden strike counts as sneak attack to get into prestige classes)

Ramza00
2007-01-02, 03:05 PM
Get access to complete mage and grab the Unseen Seer, also grab one of the new reserve feats from Complete Mage

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28297
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10743481

You can be doing alot of damage if you persist hunter's eye (which you get via the Unseen Seer Advanced Learning), hunter's eye is a PHB2 ranger divination spell gives you caster lvl/3 sneak attack for 1 round (mechanically it similar to wraith strike except it works for melee or ranged sneak attacks). This may go against your fancy though.

If you play in the Realms and have access to Champions of Ruin, grab Craven, it will give an additional damage of 1*your Character LVL for all sneak attacks.

cupkeyk
2007-01-02, 10:23 PM
Rog1Wizard5Assassin1 qualifies for Arcane Trickster too.

Unseen seer is awesome with practiced spellcaster as it removes the class's only drawback.

Valairn
2007-01-03, 03:47 AM
Which source book is unseen seer from?

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 03:48 AM
Complete Mage.

Valairn
2007-01-03, 04:28 AM
.... Somethign else to buy lol

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-03, 04:29 AM
Or download illegally off the internet.

Pegasos989
2007-01-03, 04:29 AM
Rog1Wizard5Assassin1 qualifies for Arcane Trickster too.

Unseen seer is awesome with practiced spellcaster as it removes the class's only drawback.

You can't get to assasin through rog1/wizard 5 as it requires bab 5.

Valairn
2007-01-03, 04:36 AM
My current character is rogue 1/ ninja 1/ wizard 1

This meets the sneak attack requirement, the rest is just getting the right skills, which I am one level away from anyway and the spell levels which is 4 levels away.

Eventually archmage will come into play, but thats way far off.

Anyway, I took practiced spellcaster and skillfocus spellcraft.

I took two flaws and got the feats, spellfocus(illusion and enchantment)

At level 6 i am going to take extend, my bonus mage feat will be maximize ,level 9 sculpt spell, level 12 quicken.

After that I'm totally unsure.....

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 10:25 AM
If you want more Sneak Attack, I would suggest the Fighter varient (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedCoreClass.html#fighter) from Unearthed Arcana. It gives you Rogue Sneak Attack progression with full BAB (but no feats). A Rogue 1/Ninja 1/Wizard 1is a very bad idea, as your BAB will be 0 and you only have access to 1st level spells.

Looking at Unseen Seer on the boards, that seems to be the optimal build.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-03, 10:35 AM
R 1 Nin 1 Wiz 1 is ok if you use partial BAB/Saves, which many do. Taking a decent wis for the ninja AC also allows you to get good use of the Arcane Disciple feat if you want it too.

Valairn
2007-01-03, 12:56 PM
I am using partial bab and saves, that should clear up the complaints on that point. Which means I currently have +2 bab, rather than 0.

Also I have a decent wisdom. I'm playing a grey elf, so I have high int and dex, and a good charisma score to boot. A passable con. Str = dump stat.....

So I have a bonus to my unarmormed ac which is good, though I could have always taken an armored mage feat to compensate the other direction. There are tons of options for an acrobatic utility wizard. The next 4 levels of wizard are just to meet the reqs, but it gets me a wizard bonus feat, which I could use, free metamagic/item creation.

Order of feats/item creation feats is what I need now.

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 02:44 PM
I am using partial bab and saves, that should clear up the complaints on that point. Which means I currently have +2 bab, rather than 0.

OK, that's very good.


Also I have a decent wisdom. I'm playing a grey elf, so I have high int and dex, and a good charisma score to boot. A passable con. Str = dump stat.....

So I have a bonus to my unarmormed ac which is good, though I could have always taken an armored mage feat to compensate the other direction. There are tons of options for an acrobatic utility wizard. The next 4 levels of wizard are just to meet the reqs, but it gets me a wizard bonus feat, which I could use, free metamagic/item creation.

Order of feats/item creation feats is what I need now.


Good Cha and only passable Con? Shouldn't your Stats be Int> Con> Dex> Wis> Str> Cha?

And dumpstat Str when you wear armor? How do you pull that off without the movement and Skill penalties?

Also, I'm not sure which feat you're taking (I assume Battle Caster from Comp Arcane), but it doesn't make sense for you to waste a feat to improve your AC by a few points, especially when your Ninja Wis bonus is negated by wearing armor.

Marius
2007-01-03, 03:17 PM
I assumed that he won't be wearing armor since he has a good wisdom. And maybe he has good cha because he want his character to be charismatic...

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 04:55 PM
I assumed that he won't be wearing armor since he has a good wisdom. And maybe he has good cha because he want his character to be charismatic...

Well, the OP stated that he might take a armored mage feat, and I responded that its obviously a bad idea.

On Cha: Your point is well taken - not everything about a PC build is dictated by crunch. But I would say that he can still roleplay the character any way he wants without nerfing the mechanics.

If his Cha is 6, he can still be a likable and useful person, who just happens to be naturally inarticulate. As he progresses in levels, he can take ranks in the social Skills and quickly get past his -2 penalty on those checks. In fact, by the time he takes a couple levels of Arcane Trickster, he could easily be more articulate then any other PC that doesn't have social Skills as class Skills, regardless of their Cha bonus. But putting a 6 into Str would seriously screw his carrying capacity (and thus movement and some Skills) and melee to-hit and damage forever, barring potentially expensive magical alternatives. That's just the reality of D&D mechanics. Cha and Wis are dumpstats unless your class demands a high Cha or Wis. His class combo doesn't need high Cha, and he could have dumped the Ninja level for Unseen Seer, allowing Wis to be a dumpstat as well.

If he chooses to play a weaker build, I don't care, its not my game. Maybe the PC will be more interesting to him that way. Heck, Kobolds are my favorite race! But when someone posts something that is clearly sub-optimal on a thread called "Re: Arcane Trickster Optimization," I'll call them out on it.

Valairn
2007-01-03, 09:53 PM
Actually it has to do with the racial modifiers -2 to con, I have my two high stats in dex and int, and three stats of the same modifier into con/wis/cha after modifiers I have a crappier con. But as far as base stats go they are equal. We were using 4d6(highest 3), the stat array was 12,15,14,14,17,15 as a grey elf that turns into this

Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 19, Wis 14, Cha 15

And I think I confused some of ya, I am not using armor, I was saying I could have, but decided not to since it would have been a wasted feat to overcome arcane spell failure.

Hope that clears up the complaints.