Help needed with character 3.5

[Iceking]

Hi all

I'm new at d&d scene and just played 1 campaign as a paladin.

As that was just to see how d&d worked, we are starting a new campaign soon.

As paladin I had the feeling that I could soak enough damage, but that was all I could do.
After reading this forum a bit and searching the internet, I feel like playing a dragonborn crusader. It can help my team, soak dmg and still be an active character.

Can anyone help me to a guide for such a character which tells me what to choose lvl by lvl.

All feats, skills, ... Are allowed, as long as I can show the book it comes from.


Thx a lot.

[Ortesk]

Hi all

I'm new at d&d scene and just played 1 campaign as a paladin.

As that was just to see how d&d worked, we are starting a new campaign soon.

As paladin I had the feeling that I could soak enough damage, but that was all I could do.
After reading this forum a bit and searching the internet, I feel like playing a dragonborn crusader. It can help my team, soak dmg and still be an active character.

Can anyone help me to a guide for such a character which tells me what to choose lvl by lvl.

All feats, skills, ... Are allowed, as long as I can show the book it comes from.


Thx a lot.

How much tanking power we talking about, and whats rules on build

[Xerlith]

There are (almost) no two identical builds.
It depends on what you want from the character.
Do you want it to be only durable, or durable and hard-hitting?
Do you want some spellcasting?
If yes - arcane or divine?

Can you use homebrew?

EDIT: Take a look at this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308622)

[gorfnab]

Crusader (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181655) Handbooks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2645.0)

[Ortesk]

Dragonborn Proto Water Orc
+ 8 str, +6 con, -2 dex, -2 Int, -2 Wis, - 6 Charisma
1) Combat Expertise
F) Improved Trip
F) Exotic Weapon Proficency (Spiked Chain)
3) Stand Still
6) Combat Reflexes

Win

[Studoku]

It's very hard to screw up a ToB character. Just assign your stats intelligently, pick maneuvers that seem cool and you'll be reasonably effective.

[Red Fel]

There are (almost) no two identical builds.
It depends on what you want from the character.
Do you want it to be only durable, or durable and hard-hitting?
Do you want some spellcasting?
If yes - arcane or divine?

Can you use homebrew?

EDIT: Take a look at this thread. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=308622)

Woohoo, that's my thread!

Anyway, if you want to tank and soak damage, Crusader is definitely an excellent choice, and will help you contribute more to your party. Paladin is generally considered to be an inferior class due to its lack of versatility.

If you're building a Crusader, definitely look at the Handbooks Gorf mentioned. Studoku is right, ToB characters are excellent right out of the box.

If, however, you want to do more than simply tank, I'd suggest going in an entirely different direction. In fact, I'd suggest playing a different concept anyway - try to get a feel for lots of different character classes, not just the tanky ones. If you want to stay with ToB, try a Warblade. If you want to experiment with casters, try a Sorcerer or Druid. If you want to go in a different direction entirely, try a Duskblade, and get spells and attacks.

The question, which I think we need to know before we can help you, is this: What do you want to do with this character? Just tank, or more?

[Iceking]

How much tanking power we talking about, and whats rules on build

I want to tank for like 75% of the time, while harassing enemy's or assisting friends. 25 % goes to dmg.

The rules are easy. Everything is allowed that's in a book. No homebrew.

Spellcasting isn't my main desire.

The manoeuvres seem really fun.

What do you guys mean with tob char?

What other builds do you suggest;?

[Xerlith]

Paladin4/Crusader2/Ruby Knight Vindicator10/Crusader+4 seems like a good choice for you.
Minor spellcasting, mainly buffing yourself, much utility, great tankiness... What not to love here.

White Raven and Devoted Spirit are the disciplines that you should focus on in particular. They allow you for some minor in-combat healing and some major battlefield shaping. Going for a lockdown build should prove very efficient in further controlling the battlefield.

[Kane0]

It's very hard to screw up a ToB character. Just assign your stats intelligently, pick maneuvers that seem cool and you'll be reasonably effective.
This.

Try out Crusader 20. Alternatively, Warblade 20.

Maybe take up a prestige class from the book if you like, but you don't need to dip left and right to make a solid Tome of Battle character. Thats for high-op situations.

Focus on Devoted spirit for tanking, White Raven for teamwork and Iron Heart/Diamond Mind for all-round combat. Take up Mountain Hammer from Stone Dragon to ignore DR and hardness and Mountain Tombstone at late levels because it has no requirements like the other high level maneuvers.

Edit: As for feats just stick to the PHB, Tome of Battle and maybe Complete Warrior. That should leave your DM scratching his head less often. Seeing as your group is still getting into the game and you haveall of the books available, going easy on yourself and the DM will likely be appreciated.

[mindwarper10]

fyi tob just means tome of battle.
because you asked.

[Kennisiou]

Crusader is a great place to play to learn how to use your per tern action economy well because the mechanics basically outline how it should work and then force you to do it. It's great. As was already said, look for maneuvers that seem good and you'll probably make a solid crusader. If you want to optimize a bit more, nab a few paladin or cleric of wee jas levels and play Ruby Knight Vindicator or maybe grab a level or two of fighter to get some bonus feats. For feats, Tome of Battle, Complete Warrior, Complete Adventurer and the core handbook probably contains just about everything you'll need. You may want to look at Complete Scoundrel as well if you find yourself using diplomacy or intimidate a lot since there's some good skill stuff in there (especially the never outnumbered skill trick).

[Ketiara]

I used Stomguard Crusader from this handbook
http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1146801
It helped me a lot up until I started to dip warblade at wich point I learned enough to mix up my own stuff. Ask your DM to be able to switch out some of the maneuvres to test stuff or if the gameplay of the groupe alteres perhaps other maneuvres is better.

But worth noting I found that stone power feat lost its appeal later on, when I needed to hit and hit hard. But that's probably just me.

[Red Fel]

Seconding what everyone else has said. Crusader is an excellent, well-built class, that accomplishes everything you want.

Devoted Spirit maneuvers will be ideal for your tanking. The Iron Guard's Glare stance will keep things from doing much damage if they get too close to your party members, whereas the Thicket of Blades stance will help prevent them from getting close in the first place.

Consider using the following synergy in your build: Thicket of Blades allows you to make an Attack of Opportunity against any opponent in your threat range who moves. Ordinarily, you get only one Attack of Opportunity per turn, but by taking Combat Reflexes (Player's Handbook), you get a number of AoOs equal to your Dex modifier, and may make them even while flat-footed. Combine this with the Stand Still feat (Expanded Psionics Handbook), and instead of making an AoO, you may simply prevent your opponent from moving at all. Further, if you use a reach weapon, (such as a glaive or guisarme), you extend the effective range of Thicket of Blades and Stand Still, allowing you to block the movement of anybody within 10 feet, instead of the usual 5. (As Ortesk points out, Spiked Chain is also an excellent choice, if you're willing to take a feat to use it.) This means that anybody coming after your party has to literally get past you first.

White Raven will help you substantially with your non-tanking duties, particularly if there are other melee characters in your group. I must specifically emphasize the infamous White Raven Tactics maneuver, which basically lets you decide who acts and when. It's broken in all the right ways.

You can easily take Crusader for every level, from beginning to end. If you do choose to multiclass, however, remember that 6 is the magic number: If you intend to take a 9th-level maneuver, you can take no more than 6 levels in classes which do not advance initiator level. For example, Crusader 14/ Fighter 6 would still let you use 9th-level maneuvers, as would Crusader 6/ Fighter 6/ Ruby Knight Vindicator 8, but Crusader 5/ Fighter 15 would lock you out.

[John Longarrow]

Iceking,

Besides fighting, what do you want your character to be able to do? What do you want them doing outside of dungeon delving?

[Ortesk]

I want to tank for like 75% of the time, while harassing enemy's or assisting friends. 25 % goes to dmg.

The rules are easy. Everything is allowed that's in a book. No homebrew.

Spellcasting isn't my main desire.

The manoeuvres seem really fun.

What do you guys mean with tob char?

What other builds do you suggest;?

Arctic Dragonborn Proto Water Orc (+8 Str, + 8 con, - 2 dex, - 4 int, -8 charisma) Is gonna be about as good as i can get you with 0 LA

Feats:
1) Exotic Weapon Proficency (Spiked Chain)
F) Stand Still
F) Combat reflexes

Let us assume you put a 16 in strength, raising to a 24. With stand still you wack someone for 2d4+10 damage (Average 15) and they make Reflex DC =10+Damage (25) or no move action. You also can have a 24-26 con which means you begin level 1 with 17 HP, if you have lousy dex dump combat reflexes for Exotic Armor Proficency (Mountain Armor) which is + 10 AC + 0 dex (Not the best idea, but you can have an ac of 20 at level 1 and be a giant bamf who stands and destroys his enemies)

[Kennisiou]

Arctic Dragonborn Proto Water Orc (+8 Str, + 8 con, - 2 dex, - 4 int, -8 charisma) Is gonna be about as good as i can get you with 0 LA

Feats:
1) Exotic Weapon Proficency (Spiked Chain)
F) Stand Still
F) Combat reflexes

Let us assume you put a 16 in strength, raising to a 24. With stand still you wack someone for 2d4+10 damage (Average 15) and they make Reflex DC =10+Damage (25) or no move action. You also can have a 24-26 con which means you begin level 1 with 17 HP, if you have lousy dex dump combat reflexes for Exotic Armor Proficency (Mountain Armor) which is + 10 AC + 0 dex (Not the best idea, but you can have an ac of 20 at level 1 and be a giant bamf who stands and destroys his enemies)

I'd suggest not dumping charisma on a Crusader since it's one of their core stats and is required for them to initiate maneuvers. For races that accomplish what the OP wants... Gnomes could be a good choice since their size gives them an AC bonus and they get a racial bonus to con. Str gets lowered and small sized weapons deal less damage but if you want survivability more than damage it's a good option. Desert Half Orc's (unearthed arcana) +2 Con -2 int is a better fit for damage but doesn't get the +1 size bonus or any of the cool racial skill bonuses and stuff that come with being a gnome. Human and Strongheart Halfling (forgotten realms) are also good picks thanks to bonus feats and Strongheart getting +2 dex -2 str and small size to make it harder to kill (but again, less damage).

Really, what you go with in terms of starting race shouldn't be too big of a deal, just don't pick anything that penalizes constitution or charisma since those are going to be your core stats as a tank crusader. Strength and dex penalties are also problematic, but a lot easier for you to work around.

[Xerlith]

I would just like to point out that the OP is a new player.
I doubt someone new to DnD would be able or want to play a character with approximately 2 CHA and 6 INT, and that's what I've seen proposed to him.
I would rather propose something... More toned down on this one.

On a sidenote, Charisma is not needed for the Crusader to initiate maneuvers. It's just used for their DCs and some of class abilities.

[Iceking]

Paladin4/Crusader2/Ruby Knight Vindicator10/Crusader+4 .

How do you build like this (dont know about pos and neg aspects of multiclassing





Besides fighting, what do you want your character to be able to do? What do you want them doing outside of dungeon delving?

Not that much. I love the tanking / damagedealing. For the rest i dont care much :-)



Does anyone have such a buildguide (like the two links posted above) for a dragonborn, cant seem to find it on this forum.

Is it a good idea to focus the dragonborn aspects on breath weapon + tail damage and the crusader aspect on full tank?

[Red Fel]

How do you build like this (dont know about pos and neg aspects of multiclassing

Okay, with regard to multiclassing, you need to remember the difference between base classes (such as Crusader or Paladin) and prestige classes (such as Ruby Knight Vindicator). In the rules-as-written (or RAW, as often abbreviated here) you take a penalty to experience earned while you're in multiple base classes and their levels are out of whack. The rules for that are in the Player's Handbook. Many wonderful DMs, however, will gleefully ignore that penalty. The penalty does not apply when you're taking prestige classes.



Does anyone have such a buildguide (like the two links posted above) for a dragonborn, cant seem to find it on this forum.

Is it a good idea to focus the dragonborn aspects on breath weapon + tail damage and the crusader aspect on full tank?

Dragonborn does not require a build guide. Unlike Crusader, it's not a class, it's a template. A template is like a race (human, elf, etc.) except that it gets applied on top of the existing race. So you can make a Human into a Dragonborn Human, or an Elf into a Dragonborn Elf, and so forth. The details on Dragonborn can be found in the book Races of the Dragon.

Dragonborn has three choices of aspect: a breath weapon, wings, and vision (Heart, Wings, and Mind, respectively). I would advise against thinking about it in terms of damage, however; a tank isn't designed to do damage, it's designed to prevent it. Towards that end, I would suggest ignoring the tail. However, you can tank wonderfully with the breath weapon if you take the feat Entangling Exhalation, which will basically let you lock down anyone who gets hit with your breath weapon. The cost is that your breath weapon deals less damage, but as a Crusader, you have maneuvers that cover your damage gap.

[Iceking]

Dragonborn does not require a build guide. Unlike Crusader, it's not a class, it's a template. A template is like a race (human, elf, etc.) except that it gets applied on top of the existing race. So you can make a Human into a Dragonborn Human, or an Elf into a Dragonborn Elf, and so forth. The details on Dragonborn can be found in the book Races of the Dragon.


Does this mean i need to go human first and get to dragonborn at later lvl or just start as human who is reborn as dragonborn?

What race would you guys recommend for this build of Dragonborn Crusador (into later Ruby knight perhaps)
What are the pro's and con's on taking some (how much?) lvl paladin before crusador?

[Red Fel]

Does this mean i need to go human first and get to dragonborn at later lvl or just start as human who is reborn as dragonborn?

What race would you guys recommend for this build of Dragonborn Crusador (into later Ruby knight perhaps)
What are the pro's and con's on taking some (how much?) lvl paladin before crusador?

Dragonborn is a template that can be applied to any living creature. So you can put it on a human, an elf, anything you like. Ortesk recommended a Water Orc for reasons which I'll explain here.

Dragonborn adds several useful features, including ability modifiers (+2 Con, -2 Dex), immunity to a dragon's Frightful Presence ability, and your choice of three aspects (Heart, Wings or Mind), among others. Read Races of the Dragon for a more complete list.

However, the Dragonborn template also removes various things from the underlying race. It keeps ability score modifiers, so if your base race has +Int or -Cha, it keeps those. It loses bonus feats, bonus skills, things like that - meaning that the key advantages of being Human (a bonus feat at level 1 and bonus skill points) are lost.

That's why people often suggest, for example, Water Orc. It has +4 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, and -2 Cha, so it is a physically massive tank - and it keeps those ability modifiers. What it loses is its Orcish Light Sensitivity, which is a liability anyway. So it keeps the benefit, loses the disadvantage. Another popular choice is the Warforged, because it keeps its Living Construct subtype traits.

Dragonborn can be taken at any level, even at level 1. In addition, it qualifies you for feats which require the Dragonblood subtype, and if you take it at a higher level, you can replace one of your earlier feats with one of the ones in Races of the Dragon, within certain restrictions explained in the book.

With regard to multiclassing, Paladin and Crusader have slightly different styles, so the balance of the classes is up to you. Personally, I would recommend avoiding Paladin entirely, and sticking with Crusader, maybe adding RKV.

The thing to remember about Tome of Battle classes, as I said earlier in the thread, is that if you want access to the highest-level abilities in that book, you can take no more than six levels of a non-ToB class, such as Paladin. Look back up in the thread for my explanation of this.

[Studoku]

What race would you guys recommend for this build of Dragonborn Crusador (into later Ruby knight perhaps)
Warforged.

There's nothing that prevents a warforged becoming dragonborn and the result is a dragonborn with all the benefits of the Living Construct type. These benefits include a lot of immunities to annoying effects. You also wouldn't need to eat or sleep so you could dedicate yourself to the service of Bahamut 24/7.

You'd also be a dragon robot.

[Red Fel]

Warforged.

There's nothing that prevents a warforged becoming dragonborn and the result is a dragonborn with all the benefits of the Living Construct type. These benefits include a lot of immunities to annoying effects. You also wouldn't need to eat or sleep so you could dedicate yourself to the service of Bahamut 24/7.

You'd also be a dragon robot.

There are a lot of advantages for a new player to playing a Warforged. As Studoku mentions, you get a lot of immunities, and don't need to eat, drink, sleep, or even breathe. It's pretty sweet, except for one glaring, serious problem: Healing.

Warforged do not heal normally. They do not have natural healing; they must use Craft: Repair skill checks to heal instead. However, they can make these during the period where they would otherwise be sleeping, so that's a plus. Also, they take only half healing from spells with the (Healing) subschool.

That said, if you can overcome that hurdle, Warforged is an excellent choice for a race. Dragonborn Warforged doubly so.

Note also that, if you take the Dragonborn template on top of the Warforged race, you lose the Warforged composite plating, unless you take a Warforged plating feat at level 1, such as Mithral Body, Adamantine Body, Ironwood Body, or Psiforged Body. That's not necessarily a bad thing; Composite Plating is like built-in armor, which can be upgraded, but it prevents you from equipping armor; if you lose it due to the Dragonborn template, you can simply buy or loot armor to wear. But it's a point of interest.

Oh, and if you ever become evil, Bahamut rips the Dragonborn template away from you, in an agonizing process over the course of a week.

In any event, Warforged is an excellent build for a Crusader, as the Crusader is already built around tanking, and a Warforged is already a tank. Also, the Crusader's delayed damage pool will keep the Warforged from taking damage it can't easily heal. Finally, a number of Devoted Spirit maneuvers heal the user without using the (Healing) subschool, meaning that they give a Warforged full healing. In short, it's a delicious combination.

Also, as previously mentioned, dragon robot. Seriously.

[Ortesk]

I would just like to point out that the OP is a new player.
I doubt someone new to DnD would be able or want to play a character with approximately 2 CHA and 6 INT, and that's what I've seen proposed to him.
I would rather propose something... More toned down on this one.

On a sidenote, Charisma is not needed for the Crusader to initiate maneuvers. It's just used for their DCs and some of class abilities.

This is true, he said tanking power and all....i was gonna advise mongrelfolk but you know

[Iceking]

As far as what i've read here, i'm thinking about a warforged dragonborn race, with something with crusader goiing into ruby knight.

This something has to be filled in yet.
I dont care about spellcasting a lot.
I do have interest in multiclassing.

Is it possible without losing (anything) much of the crusader?


edit: is a water orc, dragonborn possible to go to crusader into rkv?

[Ortesk]

As far as what i've read here, i'm thinking about a warforged dragonborn race, with something with crusader goiing into ruby knight.

This something has to be filled in yet.
I dont care about spellcasting a lot.
I do have interest in multiclassing.

Is it possible without losing (anything) much of the crusader?


edit: is a water orc, dragonborn possible to go to crusader into rkv?

Only difference between water orc is you get more str, lose some mild immunities and 2 intelligence. Water orc is considered one of the most powerful LA 0 melee races

[Red Fel]

As far as what i've read here, i'm thinking about a warforged dragonborn race, with something with crusader goiing into ruby knight.

This something has to be filled in yet.
I dont care about spellcasting a lot.
I do have interest in multiclassing.

Is it possible without losing (anything) much of the crusader?


edit: is a water orc, dragonborn possible to go to crusader into rkv?

Anything can go into Crusader. Water Orc Dragonborn is just as able as Warforged Dragonborn.

When preparing to enter Ruby Knight Vindicator (call it RKV, it's easier), keep the prerequisites in mind. You need:
Hide 4 ranks, Intimidate 4 ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 8 ranks
At least one Devoted Spirit Maneuver
At least one Devoted Spirit stance
The ability to Turn/Rebuke Undead
Worship Wee Jas
The Wee Jas thing is usually negotiable, but the rest are your limitations. Now, Crusader easily gives you the maneuvers and stances. Intimidate and Knowledge (Religion) are also class skills for Crusader; that's easy.

For Turn Undead, you'll need either one level of Cleric or 4 levels of Paladin. Towards that end, you need to decide whether you want Cleric spells or Paladin spells, since RKV gives you advancement in either.

The advantage to Paladin is that you can take the feat Battle Blessing, which lets you cast many Paladin spells as swift actions. The awesome power of RKV is Divine Impetus, which lets you use one of your Turn Undead attempts to take a swift action. This basically turns you into an armored speedy spell-slinger. (Say that three times fast!)

The advantage to Cleric is that the spells are more powerful and more numerous, and you only need one level of Cleric, as opposed to four of Paladin, to get Turn Undead.

With regard to Hide, you will probably have to take those skills cross-class, but since you only need 4 ranks it shouldn't be a lot of a problem.

Ultimately, as long as you take no more than 6 levels of Cleric or Paladin, you can simply take Crusader and RKV, fill up your levels, and gain access to 9th-level maneuvers.

For example, your build could be Paladin 4/ Crusader 1/ RKV 10/ Crusader 5. You take the minimum necessary levels of Paladin, one Crusader level to finish off your prerequisites, fill up on RKV then switch back to Crusader. It gives you an effective Paladin spellcasting level of 12, and access to 9th-level maneuvers by the end.

Alternatively, your build could be Paladin 4/ Crusader 6/ RKV 10. Same design, but this one gives you access to Shadow Hand maneuvers at level 9, which you can only get through RKV.

Yet another alternative, using Cleric, you can take Crusader 1/ Cleric 1/ X/ RKV/ Y, where X is whatever levels of Cleric or Crusader you need to fill up the RKV prerequisites, and Y is whatever you want to take after filling up on RKV. Again, taking 10 levels of RKV will advance your preexisting divine casting level by 8, so that gives you access to some decent Cleric spells.

[Arc_knight25]

There is the Trickery Domain to get the Hide as a class skill with Cleric. Also there is a feat in Hero's of Battle called Guerilla Warrior, decreases your ACP by one and Hide and Move Silently still have a max rank of a cross class skill, but only cost 1 skill point rather then 2.

[Iceking]

I started to look onto my build as a test.

Had the following (with troubles)

Race: War Forged Dragonborn
Class: Cleric (to go to crusader at lvl 3 and RKV)

Str 16 => 18
Dex 11 => 9
Con 14 => 18
Int 12 => 12
Wis 8 => 6 this means that i cant cast spells? so cleric as no caster?
Cha 10 => 8
before after adjustments

Feat (lvl 1) Mithral Body
Skills (3x4)
4 Heal (RKV)
4 Diplomacy (CRU)
4 ???

God: Wee Jas (for RKV)
this means i'm Lawfull neutral?

Domains: Death and magic

Racial bonusses as DB:
Dark vision
+2 Nat ac
Frightfull presence
Immune to sleep, paralysis
Breath weapon

Racial bonusses as war forged:
no need to sleep
Cant properly heal

Class feats
Aura of ???



Anything you guys know that aren't right
or any stuff you would change
Other tips or tricks?

Just asking before i commit to build completely

[Ortesk]

I started to look onto my build as a test.

Had the following (with troubles)

Race: War Forged Dragonborn
Class: Cleric (to go to crusader at lvl 3 and RKV)

Str 16 => 18
Dex 11 => 9
Con 14 => 18
Int 12 => 12
Wis 8 => 6 this means that i cant cast spells? so cleric as no caster?
Cha 10 => 8
before after adjustments

Feat (lvl 1) Mithral Body
Skills (3x4)
4 Heal (RKV)
4 Diplomacy (CRU)
4 ???

God: Wee Jas (for RKV)
this means i'm Lawfull neutral?

Domains: Death and magic

Racial bonusses as DB:
Dark vision
+2 Nat ac
Frightfull presence
Immune to sleep, paralysis
Breath weapon

Racial bonusses as war forged:
no need to sleep
Cant properly heal

Class feats
Aura of ???



Anything you guys know that aren't right
or any stuff you would change
Other tips or tricks?

Just asking before i commit to build completely

Where is str boost coming from? And you are right, you wouldnt be able to cast any spells. So unless RKV says and i quote (Divine Caster Level x) you wont meet prereqs. If it says able to cast x no bueno. You also forsake your no need to sleep/bad healing by being dragonborn

[Red Fel]

Alrighty, let's go through this.


I started to look onto my build as a test.

Had the following (with troubles)

Race: War Forged Dragonborn
Class: Cleric (to go to crusader at lvl 3 and RKV)

So far, so good. You know what you are and where you're going.


Str 16 => 18
Dex 11 => 9
Con 14 => 18
Int 12 => 12
Wis 8 => 6 this means that i cant cast spells? so cleric as no caster?
Cha 10 => 8
before after adjustments

Okay. First off, yeah, this is a problem. You must have a Wis score of at least 10+ spell level to cast a spell. With a 6 Wis, you can't even cast 0th-level spells. Given that spellcasting is one of your two primary Cleric abilities, that kind of stinks on ice.

Admittedly, if your goal is RKV, it's not dreadful. You'll just be an RKV who can't use spells. But if you intend to use spells, that Wis has gotta be fixed, pronto.

Note also that your low Cha will limit your Turn Undead (or, technically for a Wee Jas cleric, Rebuke Undead) uses per day. Since those will be part of the fun of an RKV, you'll probably want to bring Cha up too.


Feat (lvl 1) Mithral Body
Skills (3x4)
4 Heal (RKV)
4 Diplomacy (CRU)
4 ???

God: Wee Jas (for RKV)
this means i'm Lawfull neutral?

No, it does not mean you're Lawful Neutral. A cleric is required to be within one step of her deity. Wee Jas is Lawful Neutral. Thus, you could be LG, LN, LE, or True Neutral. Although given how hierarchical Wee Jas' clerics are, I'd advise sticking with Lawful-something.


Domains: Death and magic

Decent choices. Be sure to also consider whether you want to swap out a Domain for a Domain Devotion feat.


Racial bonusses as DB:
Dark vision
+2 Nat ac
Frightfull presence
Immune to sleep, paralysis
Breath weapon

Note that the AC is dodge AC, and it applies only to dragons. Note also that you don't get Frightful Presence, you get an immunity to it. Note finally that breath weapon, vision, and wings, are choices of Aspects - you pick one of the three.


Racial bonusses as war forged:
no need to sleep
Cant properly heal

That's the short version. Bit more to it than that, though.


Class feats
Aura of ???

If you want to take an Aura, Aura of Vigor is a good choice. It's a good emergency stop-gap way of bringing people up to half-health, and it's not the Healing subschool, so it should affect a Living Construct normally.


Anything you guys know that aren't right
or any stuff you would change
Other tips or tricks?

Just asking before i commit to build completely

Be sure you have all the details. It sounds like you still need to look back over the books and make sure you have it all down.

Be warned, this build will be fairly MAD. You'll want Str for damage, Wis for spells, Cha for Rebuke Undead. You'll need some Con to take hits, and Dex if you plan to maximize your AoOs and fire off some fun Shadow Hand tricks. In short, your ability scores will be all over the map.

[Ortesk]

Alrighty, let's go through this.



So far, so good. You know what you are and where you're going.



Okay. First off, yeah, this is a problem. You must have a Wis score of at least 10+ spell level to cast a spell. With a 6 Wis, you can't even cast 0th-level spells. Given that spellcasting is one of your two primary Cleric abilities, that kind of stinks on ice.

Admittedly, if your goal is RKV, it's not dreadful. You'll just be an RKV who can't use spells. But if you intend to use spells, that Wis has gotta be fixed, pronto.

Note also that your low Cha will limit your Turn Undead (or, technically for a Wee Jas cleric, Rebuke Undead) uses per day. Since those will be part of the fun of an RKV, you'll probably want to bring Cha up too.



No, it does not mean you're Lawful Neutral. A cleric is required to be within one step of her deity. Wee Jas is Lawful Neutral. Thus, you could be LG, LN, LE, or True Neutral. Although given how hierarchical Wee Jas' clerics are, I'd advise sticking with Lawful-something.



Decent choices. Be sure to also consider whether you want to swap out a Domain for a Domain Devotion feat.



Note that the AC is dodge AC, and it applies only to dragons. Note also that you don't get Frightful Presence, you get an immunity to it. Note finally that breath weapon, vision, and wings, are choices of Aspects - you pick one of the three.



That's the short version. Bit more to it than that, though.



If you want to take an Aura, Aura of Vigor is a good choice. It's a good emergency stop-gap way of bringing people up to half-health, and it's not the Healing subschool, so it should affect a Living Construct normally.



Be sure you have all the details. It sounds like you still need to look back over the books and make sure you have it all down.

Be warned, this build will be fairly MAD. You'll want Str for damage, Wis for spells, Cha for Rebuke Undead. You'll need some Con to take hits, and Dex if you plan to maximize your AoOs and fire off some fun Shadow Hand tricks. In short, your ability scores will be all over the map.

Dragonborn gets rid of the special stuff from warforged, or am i mistaken?

[Red Fel]

Dragonborn gets rid of the special stuff from warforged, or am i mistaken?

Some, Ortesk. Warforged keeps its ability scores, and keeps the Living Construct subtype, with all that entails (and it's a lot). It loses its composite plating (unless it took a feat, which the OP did), as well as its natural slam attack. It also loses its Light Fortification, which is an ability not related to the Living Construct subtype. It keeps its size, base land speed, language and favored class.

The key thing here is all the stuff Living Construct subtype grants. That includes a whole mess of immunities, and I mean a whole lot, as well as special construct vulnerabilities and the reduced healing. Also, he becomes inert, instead of unconscious, between 0 and -10 HP, but does not lose additional HP unless actually harmed. He also does not need to eat, sleep or breathe, but can benefit from consumables and consumed spells.

[Xerlith]

I started to look onto my build as a test.

(stuff)


No, no, no no no. Wisdom is really needed for a Divine caster. Mostly. Also, Warforged is not really a good choice for a cleric with its -2 to Charisma and Wisdom.

The build: Crusader4/Cleric1/Ruby Knight Vindicator2/Prestige Paladin2/Cleric+3/Ruby Knight Vindicator+8

The race: Lesser Aasimar Dragonborn
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma, +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity

Stats (28 point buy):
Str: 14
Dex: 14=>12
Con: 12=>14
Int: 10
Wis: 14=>16
Cha: 12=>14

Grab a spiked armor + halberd or glaive, specialize in Devoted Spirit and White Raven.

Feats can go like this:
Flaw - Shaky: Stand Still
1st level: Power Attack
3rd level: Combat Reflexes
6th: Mounted Combat
9th: Battle Blessing
12th: free
15th: free
18th: free

You lose your Warforged immunities, but gain MUCH nicer stats to go with your class. And you can always buff yourself for immunities.

[Ortesk]

Some, Ortesk. Warforged keeps its ability scores, and keeps the Living Construct subtype, with all that entails (and it's a lot). It loses its composite plating (unless it took a feat, which the OP did), as well as its natural slam attack. It also loses its Light Fortification, which is an ability not related to the Living Construct subtype. It keeps its size, base land speed, language and favored class.

The key thing here is all the stuff Living Construct subtype grants. That includes a whole mess of immunities, and I mean a whole lot, as well as special construct vulnerabilities and the reduced healing. Also, he becomes inert, instead of unconscious, between 0 and -10 HP, but does not lose additional HP unless actually harmed. He also does not need to eat, sleep or breathe, but can benefit from consumables and consumed spells.

Thanks for the clarification, but im still left pondering how he got a strength bonus. Warforged and dragonborn give : +4 Con, - 2 Dex, -2 Cha, -2 Wis

[Red Fel]

Thanks for the clarification, but im still left pondering how he got a strength bonus. Warforged and dragonborn give : +4 Con, - 2 Dex, -2 Cha, -2 Wis

Yeah, got me. I just assumed it was a typo, or some modifier he hadn't told us.

[Iceking]

Nope

I just looked it up in d&d wiki instead of the books.
There i found a str mod but in the books there's nothing to see about it.

dandwiki (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Warforged,_Variant_%283.5e_Race%29)

How else should i build, if i just want to tank stuff up and disturb enemy's

I should also mentioned that i loved to heal with the paladin, but i guess that was the only thing i could do good enough in our party cause i was only one with healing spell/feat

If i go water orc like some above mentioned, can i still get to RKV?
Just asking cause i'll probably wont be able to cast spells as cleric to?

[Xerlith]

dandwiki is not official material. It's fan-made.
Well, the general rule is - do not check stuff on dandwiki.

On the other hand, if you ARE allowed to use homebrew, that's a whole another thing.

And for serious, drop the Warforged idea. The immunities can be made up for with spells, but penalties to charisma and wisdom are going to hit you really hard. Did you look at the build above? It's got tanking, spells, immunities and maneuvers.

[Iceking]

dandwiki is not official material. It's fan-made.
Well, the general rule is - do not check stuff on dandwiki.

On the other hand, if you ARE allowed to use homebrew, that's a whole another thing.

And for serious, drop the Warforged idea. The immunities can be made up for with spells, but penalties to charisma and wisdom are going to hit you really hard. Did you look at the build above? It's got tanking, spells, immunities and maneuvers.


Id did look at it, but i still dont know for sure if i go for cleric (even just 1 lvl to get RKV) or for paladin

I have been looking into the books and have the following

Water orc Dragonborn, proto

I get the following stuff from it i think (pls look if this one is right)
+6 str
+6 con
-4 int
-2 dex
-2 wis
-6 cha

i guess this makes it a hard call towards paladin? so might be better as cleric (but only 1 lvl or still go 2?)

Speed: 30 ft
Dark vision 60 ft
Languages: Common, Orc, Draconic
HD goes 1 up (proto?)
Draconic aspect heart? (can i choose to go proto before dragonborn so i keep this one? or do i lose it anyway, just love the breath entangling stuff)

I do lose all thing from waterorc? (vs fire, swim, light sensitive)
Lose all from proto (does this include the 1HD up), (auto) rage and bonus vs mind affecting and the +3 Nat ac

Your toughts?7

Maybe better to lose the proto? (so i still have more charisma?)

[Red Fel]

Id did look at it, but i still dont know for sure if i go for cleric (even just 1 lvl to get RKV) or for paladin

I have been looking into the books and have the following

Water orc Dragonborn, proto

I get the following stuff from it i think (pls look if this one is right)
+6 str
+6 con
-4 int
-2 dex
-2 wis
-6 cha

I'm not 100% sure where you're getting these numbers, but at this point you're stacking so many modifiers (Orc, Water variant, Proto variant, Dragonborn) that I confess to being a bit lost.


i guess this makes it a hard call towards paladin? so might be better as cleric (but only 1 lvl or still go 2?)

No. This makes a bad choice as a Paladin or Cleric. Admittedly, you're only using Cleric or Paladin as a dip-class to get into RKV; fine and dandy. In that case, take one level of Cleric. Yes, your stats make for poor Cleric casting, but they also make for poor Paladin casting; you might as well just focus on getting what you need, which is Turn Undead. And you can get that with one level of Cleric, or four of Paladin. It's not a hard decision.

This build is focused on purely physical aspects, so don't even pretend that you're going to be doing spellcasting. Grab your one Cleric level, then focus on Crusader until you can get into RKV.


Speed: 30 ft
Dark vision 60 ft
Languages: Common, Orc, Draconic
HD goes 1 up (proto?)
Draconic aspect heart? (can i choose to go proto before dragonborn so i keep this one? or do i lose it anyway, just love the breath entangling stuff)

Here's the thing to remember. Entangling Exhalation is nice, and all, but later in the game, enemies will have Freedom of Movement, which renders the snare moot. Further, any round you're using a breath weapon is a round you're not using your maneuvers, which are the focus of the build. Take something passive, like Wings or Mind; don't distract yourself with Heart.


I do lose all thing from waterorc? (vs fire, swim, light sensitive)
Lose all from proto (does this include the 1HD up), (auto) rage and bonus vs mind affecting and the +3 Nat ac

Yes. You lose the Orc's light sensitivity and darkvision, the water variant's bonus on attacks against fire-types, the penalty to saves against fire-types. You keep the swim speed, but lose the skill bonus to swim checks. I don't have the stat block on Proto Orcs, but I'm pretty sure you'd lose those features you just described.

And yes, you take Proto Water Orc before you take Dragonborn. Dragonborn should be the last template you apply. (Bahamut doesn't like competition.)


Your toughts?

Apart from what I described above, here's a key point to consider. Unless you re-fluff the class to be less Wee Jas-oriented, RKV clashes with Dragonborn. The former worships Wee Jas, the LN goddess of death and magic; the latter reveres Bahamut, the LG god of good dragons.

Apart from that... The bottom line is that there are races and classes that go well with Dragonborn, and races and classes that go well with RKV... And then there are races which go well with one but not the other. Orcs, like Warforged, are going to hurt as Clerics and Paladins, which means you lose part of the benefit of RKV.

If you just want to play a beefy maneuver-user, Dragonborn Proto-Water Orc is a fine choice. However, RKV is basically Paladin-or-Cleric-with-Maneuvers, and your choice of race and template can't do justice to Paladin or Cleric. You don't have the Wis or Cha to pull off spells and class abilities, and that will hurt you.

[Iceking]

So I'm actually doiing very bad.

I might start with a clean sheet.

New clarification.

1 I want to tank, and make my enemy's stay with me (manoeuverish)
as much as i love a dragonborn flavor, I do love the ID of crusader more.

The idea's I find attracting in this thread are the following.

2 The combo with stand still, combat reflex and thicket of blades (or was it white raven tactics, cant remember)

3 The warforged / dragonborn flavor

4 spell casting.

These (in that order) are the things i would like.

But I feel like beiing tossed from one angle to the other with all the reply's cause i dont understand where all the idea's are goiing to.

btw, what does 0LA mean and OP?


thx for all your patience and assisting

[Ortesk]

Id did look at it, but i still dont know for sure if i go for cleric (even just 1 lvl to get RKV) or for paladin

I have been looking into the books and have the following

Water orc Dragonborn, proto

I get the following stuff from it i think (pls look if this one is right)
+6 str
+6 con
-4 int
-2 dex
-2 wis
-6 cha

i guess this makes it a hard call towards paladin? so might be better as cleric (but only 1 lvl or still go 2?)

Speed: 30 ft
Dark vision 60 ft
Languages: Common, Orc, Draconic
HD goes 1 up (proto?)
Draconic aspect heart? (can i choose to go proto before dragonborn so i keep this one? or do i lose it anyway, just love the breath entangling stuff)

I do lose all thing from waterorc? (vs fire, swim, light sensitive)
Lose all from proto (does this include the 1HD up), (auto) rage and bonus vs mind affecting and the +3 Nat ac

Your toughts?7

Maybe better to lose the proto? (so i still have more charisma?)

Proto Dragonborn is as follows

+8 str
+6 con
-2 dex
-4 Int
-2 Wis
-6 Cha

You keep NA but lose the rest (Which are drawbacks, not aids) You will be Dragonblooded Orc. Go pure crusader and Trip build and just rock the game

[Red Fel]

So I'm actually doiing very bad.

I might start with a clean sheet.

New clarification.

1 I want to tank, and make my enemy's stay with me (manoeuverish)
as much as i love a dragonborn flavor, I do love the ID of crusader more.

The idea's I find attracting in this thread are the following.

2 The combo with stand still, combat reflex and thicket of blades (or was it white raven tactics, cant remember)

3 The warforged / dragonborn flavor

4 spell casting.

These (in that order) are the things i would like.

But I feel like beiing tossed from one angle to the other with all the reply's cause i dont understand where all the idea's are goiing to.

Okay, let's address your points one-by-one.

1: Tanking. That's great; Crusader is a great tanking build, and Warforged is a great tanking race. We're fine so far.

2: The Combo. Yes, Stand Still + Combat Reflexes + Thicket of Blades is awesome for tanking, particularly when combined with a reach weapon (like a glaive or guisarme, or spiked chain if you're willing to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency). Being able to trip is also a plus. The issue: Dragonborn's Dex penalty will hurt your AoOs a little. Not a lot, mind you, just a little. It's something you'll have to overcome.

3: Flavor. Sounds fine to me. Warforged/Dragonborn fits a Crusader just fine. Warforged make great Crusaders mechanically, and Dragonborn make good Crusaders by fluff (being good guy zealots).

4: Spellcasting. Here we have our issue. Warforged take a penalty to Wis and Cha. Again, it's not a crippling penalty, but those are your primary spellcaster stats if you plan to go into RKV. Remember that to cast a divine spell, you must have a Wis score equal to 10+ the spell's level. So, to cast a 0th-level spell, you must have a Wis score of 10 or more. You're already starting with a -2 penalty. Unlike the Dex, which really only hurts your AoOs per turn, the penalties to Wis and Cha substantially hinder the abilities of Clerics and Paladins.

That said, if you're willing to forego RKV, I may have an alternative for you. If you go with arcane casting, instead of divine casting, your casting stat is Int, not Wis. Int is not penalized by Warforged or Dragonborn; it remains intact. If you take a combat-oriented spellcaster, you can do some exciting things. One of my favorite combat-casters is the Duskblade, which uses Int as its casting stat and has class abilities that allow it to overcome the arcane spell failure chance of wearing armor. There is an excellent handbook (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/08/duskblade-handbook.html) on the basics of the class.

If your goal is simply "spellcasting" with your combat skills, you might consider arcane casting as an option.


btw, what does 0LA mean and OP?


thx for all your patience and assisting

0LA means "zero level adjustment." Many races or templates have a level adjustment (or LA), described numerically (for example, Half-Fey has a +2 LA, or a level adjustment of two).

OP means Original Post, or Original Poster. The former refers to the first post in a thread; the latter refers to the person who posted the original post.

[Iceking]

To get me a tankish crusader, am I right to put my best rolls (still need to roll them ) in ste, con and dex
In that order.
And if I have a good roll left go for int (duskblade), wis (cleric) or cha (paladin)
Or should my third best roll get into one if these?

I already know we have huge party and other players will pick following
Gnome bard
... Wizard
Elf druid
Half orc barbarian
Dwarves fighter
... Ranger
And me. The half orc and dwarf will both focus an heavy damage with rage, cleave, ....

[Red Fel]

To get me a tankish crusader, am I right to put my best rolls (still need to roll them ) in ste, con and dex
In that order.
And if I have a good roll left go for int (duskblade), wis (cleric) or cha (paladin)
Or should my third best roll get into one if these?

First, Con and Str, as you point out, are your bread and butter. They are your ability to take and deal damage, respectively.

Second, Dex is your source of AoOs. It should be good, but doesn't need to be earthshattering.

Finally, pick your caster stat. Any way you slice it, this build will suffer from MAD; you just have to mitigate that damage.


I already know we have huge party and other players will pick following
Gnome bard
... Wizard
Elf druid
Half orc barbarian
Dwarves fighter
... Ranger
And me. The half orc and dwarf will both focus an heavy damage with rage, cleave, ....

First off, realize that, assuming the Barbarian and Fighter are reasonably optimized, they will probably deal more damage than you. They will invest in offensive feats, and focus their stats on Str and Con, whereas you also have caster stats to worry about.

That said, as a tank, doing damage is not your job; doing damage is merely a bonus. Your job is to keep the squishies safe. This means your Wizard, Bard, maybe your Ranger, and your Druid until he can Wildshape and render most things redundant.

Your Devoted Spirit maneuvers will supplement party healing and keep the squishies protected. Your White Raven maneuvers should be your next focus; in a party with strong melees, White Raven becomes incredibly powerful.

Bottom line: Your build will be difficult to high-optimize. However, Crusaders have a fairly high floor; they perform well in almost any conditions. If you focus on Crusader as a class, you'll do well. If you try to bring in spellcasting, expect it to be difficult. You will be outperformed - easily - by the Wizard and Druid, and possibly by the Bard as well. If you're comfortable with that, go for it.

[Iceking]

I don't want to aim for more dmg then fighter and barbarian, not do I want to be better at spellcasting.

Just want to soak the dmg and make enemy's focus me instead of partymembers.

Dmg and spells are just an extra option if available. If this hurts a greate build it may be left away.

What do you guys mean with MAD?

[Tysis]

I don't want to aim for more dmg then fighter and barbarian, not do I want to be better at spellcasting.

Just want to soak the dmg and make enemy's focus me instead of partymembers.

Dmg and spells are just an extra option if available. If this hurts a greate build it may be left away.

What do you guys mean with MAD?

MAD is for Multiple Ability score Dependent

Anyways crusader4/cloistered cleric1/rkv10/sacred exorcist1/x4 seems to be what you want

sacred exorcist gives a second pool of turn undead uses as well as advancing casting from cleric

For race I would go with lesser aasimar for +2 wis +2 cha plus a few other things, that helps with casting and turn undead.

Keep in mind that combat expertise requires 13 int if you want to pick up improved trip and a glaive

For feats something like
1:combat expertise Flaw:imp. trip
3:extend spell
6:persist spell
9:dmm persist
12:extra turning

With a 28(32) point buy starting stats after racial mods would look like
str 16
dex 10
con 12(14)
int 13
wis 15(16)
cha 12(13)
At lvl 4 raise wis or cha to an even number depending on which point buy then spend all ability score increases on wisdom.

Dont forget to buy a nightstick or several if your dm lets them stack

flaws are in unearthed arcana, nightsticks are in libris mortis, lesser aasimar are in players guide to faerun

If your party insists on you being a healbot once you take levels in cleric make them all chip in to buy you nightsticks and then just dmm persist mass lesser vigor.
Also if you abuse dmm and nightsticks you might get a book thrown at you, just saying.

[Studoku]

What do you guys mean with MAD?
MAD- Multiple Ability Dependant- means a character depends on several of his 6 attributes to be effective. In this case, your cleric/crusader would need Strength for damage, hit and trip, Dexterity for combat reflexes and AC, Constitution for HP and Wisdom for spells. You can't really afford to dump Charisma or Int either.

The opposite of MAD is SAD- Single Ability Dependant. For example, a Wizard needs Intelligence for spells. That's it- he can afford to put an 18 into int, the rest into con and have 8s everywhere else with no ill effects.


I don't want to aim for more dmg then fighter and barbarian, not do I want to be better at spellcasting.

Just want to soak the dmg and make enemy's focus me instead of partymembers.

Dmg and spells are just an extra option if available. If this hurts a greate build it may be left away.
Since this is only your second character, I'd suggest avoiding all the complicated builds unless the rest of your group is high-op. Keep it simple and you'll actually do better- you know where all your abilities are.

I still recommend going Dragonborn Warforged Crusader 20, picking whichever maneuvers you like. As I said, it's difficult to screw that up.

Do you know what level you're starting at?

[Iceking]

6 or 7 ish

[Studoku]

I can work with that.

How are stats being done? Rolled or point-buy? If point-buy, how many?

[Xerlith]

If you're looking for ways of reducing MADness of the build, I'd like to point out two things:

First is the Ordained Champion's capstone. By spending a TU attempt you use your Wisdom instead of Strength for attack and damage for five rounds.

Second:If you pick two levels of Prestige Paladin, you can take the Serenity feat (dragon #306, Dungeon Compendium v1), to make your Divine Grace, Turn Undead and Smite Evil wis-driven as well. In conjunction with OC, it seems a nice combo.

[Iceking]

I can work with that.

How are stats being done? Rolled or point-buy? If point-buy, how many?

Rolled withh 4D6 best 3

[Iceking]

Rolled withh 4D6 best 3

no more answers? :smallfrown:

[Xerlith]

Go for a lockdown crusader build. You need high Dexterity for this to work.

Crusader7
or Cloistered Cleric1/Crusader4/RKV2

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Power Attack.
In the Cloistered Cleric's case you want to swap Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion. Try to get Travel domain and swap it for Travel Devotion. And keep the Magic domain granted power (i hope you can get those two latter domains).

Just Travel Devotion your way around the battlefield, stopping people in their tracks.

Alternatively Wolf Totem Barbarian2/Crusader5
Feats: Combat Reflexes, Power Attack.
Trip people like nobody's business. Then you have a free attack on them with a +4 bonus - so Power Attack!

The stances you want in any case - Thicket of Blades and Iron Guard's Glare. Weapons: Always Guisarme and Spiked Gauntlet.

[Iceking]

Why cloister cleric instead of normal cleric?

[Red Fel]

Why cloister cleric instead of normal cleric?

Very simply, Knowledge Devotion.

Cloistered Cleric loses some minimal proficiencies and BAB. In exchange, it gets an ability like Bardic Knowledge, plus the Knowledge domain as a bonus domain. You can keep this, but most people swap it for the Knowledge Devotion feat for free. Knowledge Devotion is really quite good for a melee combatant, because it lets you use skill ranks to beef up your damage output.

[Iceking]

Go for a lockdown crusader build. You need high Dexterity for this to work.


Cloistered Cleric1/Crusader4/RKV2

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Power Attack.
In the Cloistered Cleric's case you want to swap Knowledge domain for Knowledge Devotion. Try to get Travel domain and swap it for Travel Devotion. And keep the Magic domain granted power (i hope you can get those two latter domains).

Just Travel Devotion your way around the battlefield, stopping people in their tracks.



The stances you want in any case - Thicket of Blades and Iron Guard's Glare. Weapons: Always Guisarme and Spiked Gauntlet.

Is there a reason you dont pick 2 lvl's in the cloistered cleric?
I read somewhere its better to work with even lvl's

[Red Fel]

Is there a reason you dont pick 2 lvl's in the cloistered cleric?
I read somewhere its better to work with even lvl's

That's true for certain classes, like Fighters, who get a boost every second level (for Fighters, that's a bonus feat).

But Cloistered Clerics, like regular Clerics, get all of their class features frontloaded. A Cleric gets spellcasting and Turn Undead upfront; all other levels are simply advancement of BAB, saves, and spellcasting. You can get all of that in other classes; the only reason to stay Cleric for more than one level is if you have something that keys off of your "Cleric level". The same holds true of Cloistered Clerics - you take a one-level dip for the Knowledge Domain and Cleric spellcasting and move on.

[Subaru Kujo]

Is there a reason you dont pick 2 lvl's in the cloistered cleric?
I read somewhere its better to work with even lvl's

I mean, you could do that on the cleric, but spell levels are on odd levels (as in you get second level spells at level 3, third levels at level 5, and so on). So it's not getting you much more than another caster level and another d8 of HP if you only take 2 levels of cleric.

So honestly, I'd just stick with the first level of Cleric and be done with it. Not like you can't do a lot with that single cleric level anyways (Bless is always fun, or Shield of Faith if you want to go tanky).

[Xerlith]

One level of Cleric is enough. We want it ONLY for Turn Undead and domain powers. The spellcasting (minor) will be taken care of by the Ruby Knight Vindicator progressing it, granting you 5th level Cleric spells cast as a 9th level cleric. Grab Practiced Spellcaster to have your buff spells last longer and you're good.

As far as race goes- the best choice would IMO be the lesser Aasimar. The immunities are nice, but from my experience they rarely come into play. Of course, it's good to say "I'm immune, nope" then, but... The rest of the time you're kinda behind the rest.

[Iceking]

i've kept reading different fora

now i was wondering in what book you find the template for a warforged as character?

i found something in MM3 and eberon campaign setting, but dont know what i can take from it