Lf a class/dip that can get me this

[Yogibear41]

Hello all,

I'm working on a half-dragon human gishy build and I am looking for a way to get a bonus feat at level 6. I'm still trying to figure out exactly how my early levels are going to go and whether I go battle sorcerer or sorcerer for my base. But anyway the help I am really looking for is that I would like to be able to take both Dragon Breath and Improved Dragon wings at level 6(the first level you can take both of them) and I can't seem to think of a way to be able to pick up an extra feat at that level without seriously stunting my casting progression. I had originally thought of using human paragon to do it, but I was told in another thread that human paragon probably can't be used with a half-dragon human, do to their being a half-dragon paragon class already as well as some rule about subraces and paragon classes with an example that drow can't take elf paragon levels because there is a drow paragon class.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated thanks!:smallsmile:

EDIT: plan to take Dragon Tail and Dragon wings as my 1st level feats, and strongly considering multiattack as my level 3 feat(unless I need to fill something for a prereq here like combat casting for AC) considering I have 2 secondary attacks (bite and slam) I think it would be a pretty strong choice.


EDIT 2: could take skill focus(diplomacy) at level 3 then take a marshal dip at 6 to get me any bonus feat as well as all armor and weapon profs, but seems sub optimal.

[Xerlith]

What do you need skill focus for? It's the weakest of the weak feats.

And a half-dragon is an awful template, by the way. Are you sure it's somethnig you want to play? Dragonborn is much better, but much more fluff-specific.

[Blackjackg]

What do you need skill focus for? It's the weakest of the weak feats.

Because Marshal gets Skill Focus: Diplomacy as a bonus feat, and specifies that if you already have it, you get another feat of your choice instead. It's an elegant solution, if seriously underpowered.

I'm not aware of any other options offhand, but I've got a little time on my hands so I'll poke through the books and see if I can turn up anything.

[Yogibear41]

Well, correct me if I am wrong, but the half-dragon never actually says that you are bipedal so I was actually contemplating having it be quadrapetal in the dragons shape and fluffing it that the mother was the dragon, thereby making myself essentially a dragon. Taking feats for wings and tail slaps, as well as having claws and bites I could be a half-dragon that looked like a dragon.

Sounded cool anyway.


From the MM:

"A dragon’s magical nature allows it to breed with virtually any
creature. Conception usually occurs while the dragon has
changed its shape; it then abandons the crossbreed offspring.
Half-dragon creatures are always more formidable than others
of their kind that do not have dragon blood, and their appearance
betrays their nature—scales, elongated features, reptilian eyes,
and exaggerated teeth and claws. Sometimes they have wings"


While the one in the book is basically a bi-pedal dragon man, I could attempt to argue that well, its father was a dragon and mother was human so its closer to a human.


Once my character was higher up in levels I would try to learn some sort of magic so that he could take human forms for a decent amount of time to spend time with his "other" side of the family.

[Sapreaver]

It could be a human torso with a dragons body.
dragtaur

That's neat tough you're evolving in to a fully fledged dragon.

[(Un)Inspired]

How cheesy are you willing to be?

You could take a flaw for a feat then at 6th level chaos shuffle whatever that feat was into the feat you want

[Yogibear41]

I wish I knew of a way to basically make myself a large human for no LA so I could get wings for free (from the template) and at a higher movement speed to boot.


Well the Chaos Shuffle does require 8th level spells, and it involves demonic magic, not to mention manipulation of demonic magics. which if the DM is paying attention will never lead to a good place.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Taking the Dragon Wings feat does not give you wing attacks, because the feat doesn't say it does. You won't gain the wing attacks of a true dragon, regardless of your shape, because you won't be a true dragon.

Play a (Desert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds)) Kobold, get the feat Dragonwrought, and use Alter Self to turn into an actual dragon. Kobolds get two claws and a bite (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), so when using Alter Self you would gain three of your acquired form's natural weapon attacks. You can even use the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (same link) to get +1 level of Sorcerer spellcasting for almost free. Plus a Dragonwrought Kobold counts as a true dragon per Dragon Magic (which is more recent than Races of the Dragon and actually in context) if that's what you're going for. Later on you can use Polymorph, Draconic Polymorph, and even Shapechange to turn into larger, more powerful dragons, without crippling your character with the Half-Dragon level adjustment or wasting all of your feats on things you could gain for almost free.

[Yogibear41]

I know I don't gain wing attacks I just want to be able to fly, the slam is from the tail slap, which I get from a feat. Also yes your build is stronger, but I am going for an optimized build of a half-dragon gish, not for sheer super power. Sadly in the broken thing that is 3.5 kobolds are actually stronger than half-dragons :smallfrown:

Also I know its RAW but dragonwrought kobolds counting as true dragons just seems like a slap in the face to the spirit of DnD

[Red Fel]

I know I don't gain wing attacks I just want to be able to fly, the slam is from the tail slap, which I get from a feat. Also yes your build is stronger, but I am going for an optimized build of a half-dragon gish, not for sheer super power. Sadly in the broken thing that is 3.5 kobolds are actually stronger than half-dragons :smallfrown:

Also I know its RAW but dragonwrought kobolds counting as true dragons just seems like a slap in the face to the spirit of DnD

Take Dragonborn, Wings aspect. Boom, you have functional wings that improve with your HD, no level adjustment, no feat required, and you get a bunch of other bonuses. You can now take Dragon Tail for one feat, fine.

Or, if you want to save the feat, take a dip of Incarnate or Totemist, and shape the Dragon Tail soulmeld. Not only does that give you a tail attack, but it's one you can upgrade in power by investing essentia. Further, if you gain the ability to bind it to a chakra, you can give it reach or use a tail sweep against multiple adjacent enemies.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I know I don't gain wing attacks I just want to be able to fly, the slam is from the tail slap, which I get from a feat. Also yes your build is stronger, but I am going for an optimized build of a half-dragon gish, not for sheer super power. Sadly in the broken thing that is 3.5 kobolds are actually stronger than half-dragons :smallfrown:

Also I know its RAW but dragonwrought kobolds counting as true dragons just seems like a slap in the face to the spirit of DnD

Use the Half-Dragon Template Class (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030912a) then, you don't have to take all of its levels consecutively (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a). Start with only the first level of it (effectively +1 LA), after gaining three class levels buy it off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), spend your next level on the second level of the template class (effectively another +1 LA), after gaining three more class levels buy that one off, then with your next level take the third level of half-dragon, and after another three class levels buy that one off. You end up with the entire Half-Dragon template bought off in nine class levels, whereas the normal version of the template can't even have the first point bought off until after nine class levels, and can't be completely bought off until you have 18 class levels. The cost for buying off the template class version is 18k xp, whereas buying off the normal version costs 45k xp.

Being a level lower than the rest of the party gets you more xp per encounter so you should catch back up by the time you're buying off the next point. Best of all, get Permanency + Enlarge Person before gaining the final level of the template class, you'll be large size upon gaining it and gain fully usable wings! Note it also gives you the dragon creature type, so you wouldn't be large any more, but you would be large size on gaining it and still get the wings and fly speed.