Gestalt / Monstrous Character Progession

[Pinkcrusade]

Hi!

So, I have been interested in playing a Doppelganger for a long time, though the LA: +4 is quite intimidating. So, a quick question along with some information. I am not playing in a high-powered campaign that the gestalt information suggests 'gestalting' in; but, if my current character dies, I need a backup: so, I was thinking of creating a Doppelganger (the Races of Destiny pg. 95 scaling variant) and Rogue gestalt. I am just seeing what you guys think about this in a campaign with no other gestalt characters... OP, balanced with some adjustments? Anything will be beneficial.

Thanks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

It's generally not a good idea to make a gestalt character in a nongestalt game. That's a bit of a slippery slope, as other players on seeing yours will suddenly want to make their characters gestalt as well, and the party's power level can spiral out of control. Plus it's not at all fair to allow one player to make a gestalt character, but not others.

A Changeling from MM3/ECS is like a Human with Doppleganger heritage, with no level adjustment and no racial hit dice. I would recommend using that instead. Maybe grab two to four levels of Warshaper from CW as well, which can give you a significant power boost.

[Pinkcrusade]

Thank you for the input! Yes, I agree that one character gestalting could cause problems.

As for the racial HD: what exactly does that incur? I am not one-hundred percent with Racial HD.

[Pesimismrocks]

A racial hit die is in effect a class level with no class features. The saves, hp, skills and BaB are determined by your type.

Edit: If LA's a problem be a changeling. LA0 in Eberron Campaign Settinh

[Pinkcrusade]

Thank you for the suggestion; though I am not a fan of Changelings (disguise instead of alter! The audacity!), I will still take it into consideration. I was browsing the MM3, and then I recalled the Greater Doppelganger! Does anybody know what their LA is? It doesn't state it...

Thanks.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

If it doesn't list a level adjustment, then it's not suitable to be used as a player character.

Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928)

[Forrestfire]

One thing you could do is take class levels to get abilities to emulate a doppleganger. What sort of character are you looking for?

If you want a mage, might I suggest being a changeling spellcaster of some sort, and pick up arcane thesis: alter self or polymorph along with silent and still spell to make it so you can change without components? Call it doppleganger special abilities, but just use the spell mechanics.

Although that doesn't give you all-day transformations. Also, it requires being a spellcaster.

If I were to make a character that emulated a doppleganger, I'd do this:

Changeling Factotum 4/Full BAB of some sort/Warshaper 1/Cabinet Trickster 5/Whatever you feel like

Call it a young doppleganger, and fluff it as growing into your abilities.
From your first level, you have the changelings' minor change shape ability and lots of skill points, so at least you have the social integration stuff going for you.

Levels 5 and 6 are there to get you into warshaper so you can get natural weapons whenever you want, really. Even when you're not using alter self, you can still fight with your form's "abilities." It's just technically a feature of your class. You also get a very nice fortification effect from that first level in the class.

Cabinet Trickster is completely optional. It's mostly there because it gets you full dopplegangering, albeit some levels later than if you had just taken the race itself. However the trade-off to it being delayed gives you full hit dice (and so not-completely-terrible skills, HP, BAB, and saves), along with a lot of very neat tricks from factotum and the ability to do terrible things to people whose minds you read.

Feat-wise, the build is almost completely open. You'll need Persona Immersion, but other than that the build is mostly whatever you want. If you want more power, Font of Inspiration (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606) is your go-to feat and you should take it as often as possible.


After the levels above, levels 2-4 in Warshaper are really good. The 5th level is rendered superfluous by the 5th level of Cabinet Trickster. After (or before) that, more Factotum levels are also good. Specifically, you want to either have 8 or 11 levels in Factotum, to get cunning surge or cunning breach, respectively. The 13th level of Factotum is fun if you think you're too squishy and have inspiration points to spare from Font of Inspiration. Mindspy is also fairly good if you want to emphasize the mind-reading aspect.

If I were running the character, I'd go with something like:

{table=head] Level | Class | Feats | Neat Stuff You Get

1 | Factotum 1 | Font of Inspiration or other feat. | Intelligence to some rolls by spending IP

2 | Factotum 2 | | 1st-level spells with Arcane Dilettante

3 | Factotum 3 | Persona Immersion | Intelligence to AC by spending IP

4 | Factotum 4 | | Sneak Attack by spending IP

5 | Full BAB Class 1 | | Whatever the benefits of the class are. I like warblade for

6 | Warshaper 1 | Multiattack | Make some natural weapons for your form.

7 | Cabinet Trickster 1 | | You can read minds now! Not all the time, but it’s a start

8 | Cabinet Trickster 2 | Bonus changeling-related feat | You can daze things you’re reading the mind of.

9 | Mindspy 1 | Font of Inspiration or other feat | You can read minds in-combat now much more easily

10 | Cabinet Trickster 3 | | More detect thoughts uses, and you can stop spells from being cast

11 | Cabinet Trickster 4 | Bonus changeling-related feat | Now you can cause confusion when reading a mind.

12 | Cabinet Trickster 5 | Font of Inspiration or other feat | Detect thoughts all the time. Thanks to Mindspy, you can sustain it as a free action, so it’s pretty much got 100% uptime.

13 | Mindspy 2 | | Gets you to reading surface thoughts and using thought tricks faster, since you now read thoughts on the second round.

14 | Factotum 5 | | 2nd-level spells with Arcane Dilettante. Mildly late, but stuff like wraithstrike is very good here.

15 | Factotum 6 | Font of Inspiration or other feat |

16 | Factotum 7 | | You get a third spell each day. It’s neat, but it’s mostly for buffs.

17 | Factotum 8 | | Extra actions by spending IP. A bit late, but really, really good.

18 | Mindspy 3 | Font of Inspiration or other feat | Mindscan two things at once.

19 | Mindspy 4 | | Your detect thoughts now works instantly, going straight to mind-reading the moment you activate it.

20 | Mindspy 5 | | Mindscan four things at once. [/table]

Some good feats to pick up might be Knowledge Devotion if you're using knowledge skills (especially because you get a good amount of attacks from Warshaper), and more Fonts of Inspiration. Or whatever you want, really. The build can act as a skillmonkey and combatant at the same time. Just watch out for things whose minds can't be read, and maybe pick up an item to dispel protection from mind-affecting stuff.