Question Pertaining to Barbarians / Frenzied Berserkers!

[Pinkcrusade]

Hello!

So, a few people and I have been having a discussion about Leap Attack with a Barbarian and Frenzied Berserker. Some say it would have a (for two-handed) 1(attack):4(damage) ratio, while the others say it is 1:3 (though Wizards has stated the third sentence in that errata was supposed to be removed). I know this is a problem-laden area of the game, and I require assistance (as a player wants to play a F.B), so, thanks!

Also, I have read that supreme power attack + leap attack = 1:12 ratio?! Would anybody explain how some could come to this conclusion?

Thanks in advance!

[Ortesk]

Hello!

So, a few people and I have been having a discussion about Leap Attack with a Barbarian and Frenzied Berserker. Some say it would have a (for two-handed) 1(attack):4(damage) ratio, while the others say it is 1:3 (though Wizards has stated the third sentence in that errata was supposed to be removed). I know this is a problem-laden area of the game, and I require assistance (as a player wants to play a F.B), so, thanks!

Also, I have read that supreme power attack + leap attack = 1:12 ratio?! Would anybody explain how some could come to this conclusion?

Thanks in advance!

Full level 10 gets a 4:1 on PA with a two hander, and leap doubles that. Assume PA for 10, +10 str and greatsword. Basic sword. 2D6+ 15 (Str)+40 PA for a nice average of 62. Then leap is +100% damage when successful, so it doubles that. So it makes awesome damge, but not as bad as you think (Add valerous, pounce, spirited charge, thunderous lance, and you get insanity) Also unless your guy has pounce, he can open with a bang then fizzle out. food for thought

[Ortesk]

To further explain for future, Supreme PA changes your PA not add on it So its not X6 its X4. And should he find something which says adds X2 PA, it becomes X5 not X8, basically take the number multiplied subtract 1 and add the two totals. So a X4 and X3 would add X6

[Nettlekid]

Ortesk, I have no idea what you're saying.

The Leap Attack discrepancy is that it's a bit tough to say if +100% means like, from 2:1 to 3:1, or from 2:1 to 4:1. Because of how D&D multipliers work and all. Normally if you had something that just said "double" then the 2:1 would become 3:1, because x2->x3 when you "double" it in D&D. But +100% is kind of different. I don't actually know the precise ruling, though I think it actually intends to be 2:1->4:1, which is pretty crazy.

So with FB, who already gets a 4:1 payout with Power Attack on a two-handed weapon, if the Leap Attack carries over like that, you end up with an 8:1 payout. I'm not sure where the 12:1 comes from, but if you have something that once again "doubles" the output, then I could see it being 4:1->8:1->12:1. What makes it really pop is when you get things like a Valorous weapon, because then you're suddenly multiplying different things, and those multipliers don't add together in the weird D&D way. If you had something that doubled damage, and then another thing that doubled damage, then you get triple damage. But if you had something that doubled Power Attack, and then something that doubled damage, you end up with effective quadruple Power Attack. So FB's 4:1, with Leap Attack is 8:1, with Valorous is 16:1 (sorta.)

[Andezzar]

It is most definitely 4:1 at least. Here is why:
If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls.So using a two-handed weapon does not multiply extra damage from power attack but replaces the usual 1:1 exchange rate with another, which incidentally is twice the usual damage. So adding +100% of 2:1 makes it 4:1. Unless of course you go by strict RAW (and do not remove the third sentence), which would make it 6:1

Improved/Supreme Power Attack don't multiply either. They again switch the usual excchange rate for something else. So you get:
Improved Power Attack (with 2h weapon) + Leap Attack: 6:1/9:1
Supreme Power Attack (with 2h weapon) + Leap Attack: 8:1/12:1

Adding Valorous to your weapon is the first mulitplier in that combo. If you somehow can combine spirited charge and/or a lance with Leap Attack (centaur etc.) you have to use weird D&D Math.

Adding Pounce (and possibly Whirling Frenzy) will let you deal more than enough damage - if you hit. To ensure hitting, don't forget to take Shock Trooper. You want to add the +16*BAB each time.