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View Full Version : [3.5 Monster] Disintegrator Construct. [PEACH, and needs CR]



Telonius
2013-10-15, 07:49 PM
I'm brewing up a Construct to face my players as they're running down a stairwell (littered with traps, of course). The idea is that there's a big, scary, but slow thing behind them, to encourage them to find the traps quickly and move on. They'll face it at the bottom of the stairwell. What CR would you put on this thing?

Disintegrator Construct

Huge Construct
20d10+40 HP
Speed: 10 ft (see text).
Armor Class: 13 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: 15/28
Attack: Slam +18 melee (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Slam +18 melee (2d6+7)
Space/Reach: 15 ft / 10 ft
Special Attacks: Disintegrate (see text), Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine, Regeneration 10, Levitation, Feather Fall.
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +1
Str 20, Dex 8, Con -, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1

Regeneration: Adamantine attacks bypass regeneration.
Levitation: The Disintegrator floats two feet above the surface and ignores any form of difficult terrain.
Feather Fall: The Disintegrator is affected by a continuous Feather Fall effect (CL 20).
Disintegrate: The Disintegrator detects any form of flight within 100 feet, and targets the nearest flyer with a Quickened Disintegrate spell once per round. (+14 attack, CL 20, 40d6 damage, Fort DC 23 reduces damage to 5d6).

If the Disintegrator construct ends its turn with any creature or object within its reach, that creature is automatically targeted with a melee touch attack (+18). If the attack succeeds, the attack deals no direct damage, but the target is affected as though by a Disintegrate spell (same save as above).

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-15, 08:20 PM
Well, without knowing the average ECL of the party, it's difficult to judge if this monster is appropriate or not.

I can say, that with disintegrate at CL 20, I would put the CR fairly high. And the ability to shoot out several Disintegrates at once is deadly. I can't tell if the save is level appropriate without party statistics, however, there is no basis for the save of 23.

Base save, the DC to resist the disintegrate effect would be 16, and since you give no basis for the hike in fort DC, (other than I assume that the DC is probably level appropriate), you can't really say the save DC is 23.


Example, Vampire gaze attacks are always CHA based when determining DC. Dragon breath weapon effects are always CON based when determining DC.

Edit: I guess you could say that you add 1/2 HD to the DC, since my above examples are also affected by HD. But that would leave the save at 26

it seems to have very little hitpoints for a huge construct and a low AC, but my memory on hitpoint progression for constructs is hazy right now.
So that might bring the CR down.

TuggyNE
2013-10-15, 10:33 PM
Huge Construct

Will have to squeeze down 10'-wide passages, so if that's a concern you might want to make it merely Large.


20d10+40 HP

Average of 150 HP, which is a little sparse.


Armor Class: 13 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 13

Probably needs more natural armor. Compare clay golems at the same CR with +14 NA.


Regeneration: Adamantine attacks bypass regeneration.

It has Con -, so this won't work. Just give it DR/adamantine, fast healing 10, and call it good. (If you like, take a leaf from the Inevitables' book and say that their fast healing doesn't work on damage dealt by adamantine weapons.)


Feather Fall: The Disintegrator is affected by a continuous Feather Fall effect (CL 20).

I'd suggest giving it feather fall at-will.


Disintegrate: The Disintegrator detects any form of flight within 100 feet, and targets the nearest flyer with a Quickened Disintegrate spell once per round. (+14 attack, CL 20, 40d6 damage, Fort DC 23 reduces damage to 5d6).

Split off the flyer detection into an always-on Su, roll the rest into its other SLAs, and mark them with (Sp); ranged touch attack is +12 (+15 BAB, -1 Dex, -2 size) and DC is 11 [!] (10 + 6 spell level - 5 Cha) unless you switch it to using some other ability for saves.

#1. Divide creature's average HP by 4.5 to 6.5. (4.5 for 5 HD or lower, 5 for 6-10 HD, 5.5 for 11-15 HD, 6 for 16-20 HD, 6.5 for 20-25 HD)
150/6=25
#2. Add 1 for each five points above 10 its AC is, subtracting 1 for every 5 below.
13 = 0
#3. Add 1 for each special attack (+2 to +5 or more if its got a decent number of spells in its spell-like abilities).
2
#4. Add 1 for each quality unless you deem it worthy of more. Add 1 for each resistance and 10 points of DR it has, and 2 for each immunity. Subtract 1 for each vulnerability.
3
#5. Add 1 for every two bonus feats it has.
0
#6. Divide total by 3. This should be its rough CR.
30/3=10

CR of 10 is probably too low, so amp up Cha, give it more HD (at least 30), and more natural armor. Maybe also give it an ability that gives it a deflection or shield or some other bonus to AC, or just increase Dex.


Edit: I guess you could say that you add 1/2 HD to the DC, since my above examples are also affected by HD. But that would leave the save at 26

Save DCs are either half HD + ability modifier or spell level + ability modifier, never both. If it's based closely on a spell it's usually the latter.


it seems to have very little hitpoints for a huge construct and a low AC, but my memory on hitpoint progression for constructs is hazy right now.
So that might bring the CR down.

HP are correct for the HD count. But since construct CR generally goes up much slower than HD, the HD count is probably a bit low.

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-16, 11:23 AM
TuggyNE has valid points.

Thanks for the catch with the HD rules for DC by the way.

All, in all though. I'd say this creature could use some powering up.

Provided they had sufficient hints about how the disintegrate works, a party of level 10's could plow through this thing I'd say in no more than 3 rounds.

Telonius
2013-10-16, 04:59 PM
Thanks guys! I'll make some adjustments and post. Great catch on the Regeneration; for some reason I'd remembered the Inevitables' ability as Regen, not Fast Healing.

For the save DC, I wasn't quite sure how to calculate it. Since the thing itself doesn't have an Int score, I was going on the assumption that it would use its creator's score for the caster level; so it would have been 10+6(spell level)+7(happened to be the creator's Int bonus). So would +cha (that is, total 11) be more accurate?

TuggyNE
2013-10-16, 05:21 PM
For the save DC, I wasn't quite sure how to calculate it. Since the thing itself doesn't have an Int score, I was going on the assumption that it would use its creator's score for the caster level; so it would have been 10+6(spell level)+7(happened to be the creator's Int bonus). So would +cha (that is, total 11) be more accurate?


The saving throw (if any) against a spell-like ability is:
10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier.

Most SLAs use Cha for their key ability; it's possible to use other mental ability scores, but not very common, and here that wouldn't help anyway.

If you want, you could give the Disintegrator Construct some special ability that lets it use its creator's Int score instead of its Cha score for SLA save DCs, but that's decidedly non-standard. (In fact, probably unique.)

On the whole, though, I'd suggest just giving it a good Cha score and letting it go with that. (Maybe bump up Wis to make it a bit more robust, too, but that's up to you.)

Telonius
2013-10-16, 10:14 PM
So, the revised version. I think it would make a little bit more sense that the Disintegrate effect would be keyed off Wisdom, rather than Charisma, since it is more of a perception-based attack (shoot anything that flies). So I'm handling it as though it were the Cleric version of the spell. Also tightened up some of the wording of the Disintegrate ability. So, all that together, by Vorpal Tribble's method this ought to be about a CR ... 13? Perfect for the level I'm planning for the party to encounter it.

Disintegrator Construct

You hear a faint whirring sound as you look above you. A boxy, vicious-looking metal contraption, painted to resemble a snarling beast, is following you down the stairwell. It hovers a few inches above the stairs as it slowly descends. Several jointed appendages sweep around it, the tips of each arm ending in an ominous purple glow.

Size/Type: Large Construct
Hit Dice: 30d10+30 HP(195HP)
Speed: 10 ft (see text).
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, +12 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: 22/29
Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d6+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft / 10 ft
Special Attacks: Disintegrate (see text), Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine, Fast Healing 10, Levitation.
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +13
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 20, Cha 1
Skills: -
Feats: -
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 13
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 31-35HD (Large), 36-40HD (Huge)

Combat
A Disintegrator Construct is tasked with keeping certain areas clear of debris and intruders. The area and path it patrols is set at its creation. It will carry out its rounds indefinitely, destroying everything in its way until disabled.

Fast Healing (Ex): A Disintegrator Construct heals 10 damage each round as long as it has at least 1 hit point. However, damage dealt by adamantine weapons heals at the normal rate.
Levitation (Su): The Disintegrator floats two feet above any hard surface and ignores any form of difficult terrain.
Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At will - Feather Fall.
Disintegrate (Sp): If any form of flight is used within 100 feet of the Disintegrator Construct, as a swift action it may target the nearest flyer with a Disintegrate spell (as though cast by a 20th-level Cleric). (+22 attack, CL 20, 40d6 damage, Fort DC 22 reduces damage to 5d6).

If the Disintegrator Construct ends its turn with any creature or object within its reach, that creature is automatically targeted with a melee touch attack (+22). If the attack succeeds, the attack deals no direct damage, but the target is affected as though by a Disintegrate spell (same save as above).

TuggyNE
2013-10-16, 11:37 PM
Single slam attack and melee touch attack should both be +26 (as should full attacks); BAB 22 + 5 Str - 1 size.

Other than that, looks pretty good, and should be sound enough.

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-16, 11:40 PM
Looks fine to me.

One thing though, If you're basing the Fort save for Disintegrate off of Wisdom, the save should be 21, not 22 (10 + 6 +5)
10 base
6 for the spell level
5 because a Wisdom score of 20 has a modifier of 5
Unless there is some bonus I am over looking, which is always possible

Telonius
2013-10-17, 05:17 AM
Looks fine to me.

One thing though, If you're basing the Fort save for Disintegrate off of Wisdom, the save should be 21, not 22 (10 + 6 +5)
10 base
6 for the spell level
5 because a Wisdom score of 20 has a modifier of 5
Unless there is some bonus I am over looking, which is always possible

Cleric version is a level 7 spell.

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-17, 02:47 PM
Ah, my bad then

Debihuman
2013-10-18, 08:39 AM
I admit I'm not much of a fan of the disintegrate spell-like ability but what level is the party? It's hard to judge homebrews based on specific group challenges.

The DC of disintegrate depends on whether you list it as spell-like or supernatural ability. How many times a day can it use this ability? It seems to be at will as long as it has a flying creature to target.

Can the party survive a hit if they fail their saves? Do you really want a TPK?

40d6 is a lot of damage. If anyone takes more than 50 points from a single attack, he or she is still subject to the massive death rule.

The DC of a Spell-like ability is: 10 + the level of the spell the ability resembles or duplicates + the creature’s Cha modifier. This is a 7th level cleric spell. I am not a fan of basing it on Wisdom rather than Charisma since it violates the rules unnecessarily. How well will the party fair with DC 22 Fort saves? If they can't save at least 75% of the time, this is too tough.

Also, if a creature is disintegrated by this it cannot be raised since this is a death effect. Are you sure you want this to be that powerful? See Special Abilities regarding death effects.

I'm also concerned about this being a swift action. Special Abilities are usually standard actions. Making this a swift action really ups the ante in terms of what it can do.

It doesn't matter how slow this is since it can obliterate flying creatures within 100 feet. The PCs might be able to outrun it but the quickened ray will act first on anyone flying. Also, will anyone actually be flying in this stairwell or is this a totally wasted ability that won't get used?

Disintegrate (Sp): If any form of flight is used within 100 feet of the Disintegrator Construct, as a swift action it may target the nearest flyer with a disintegrate spell as though cast by a 20th-level cleric. This is a +22 ranged touch attack that deals 40d6 points of damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 22) reduces the damage to 5d6. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated. Disintegrated creatures cannot be raised since this is a death effect. The save DC is Wisdom-based.

Debby

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-18, 02:20 PM
@ Debihuman
I believe the massive damage = Fort save or die rule is a variant, like fumbles or triple crit.

40d6 is a LOT of damage. But since this is a specific encounter type monster, if the DM gives sufficient hints on how the creature operates, the players should be able to avoid having to make the save in the first place. So the key there is that your players can realize that and they have enough information to come to that conclusion.

@Telonius

If you are not confidant that your players are clever enough to notice that they probably SHOULDN'T stand in reach of the big ass mechanical tank disintegrating things with these purple tentacles, I would lower the damage and possibly the Save of the disintegrate effect.

Also, Giving it some more thought, the target any flyer ability makes no sense. because if it can shoot something at a distance that's flying, why can't it shoot something on the ground? Does it have some magical programming that instantly registers all flying creatures as a threat? Did the wizard who made it hate birds with a burning passion? Is the disintegrater cannon positioned I at an angle where it can ONLY target things in the air? If it registers all flyers as a threat, then why aren't the things attacking it on the ground considered a threat?

More seriously, if you are concerned about your players simply flying out of reach and lobbing arrows and spells at it, then limit the mobility of the players for the encounter. I wouldn't have an ability that seems to only be there to screw over Wziards and sorcerers, and possibly the entire party (if said arcane casters used mass flight) for choosing to use flight as a tactical advantage. Also, if you keep the ability, makes sure you clarify what "Flyers" are. Is someone who is levitating considered "flying", how about Air Walk. If it only targets creature with Flight movement speed, again, it seems like the only reason to have it is to screw over wizards/sorcerers.

Debihuman
2013-10-20, 06:08 AM
Massive Damage is not a variant rule. It is a core rule (though there are variant ways to deal with it). It's in the Combat section under injury and death. See here:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm#massiveDamage



Massive Damage
If you ever sustain a single attack deals 50 points of damage or more and it doesn’t kill you outright, you must make a DC 15 Fortitude save. If this saving throw fails, you die regardless of your current hit points. If you take 50 points of damage or more from multiple attacks, no one of which dealt 50 or more points of damage itself, the massive damage rule does not apply.

Debby

TheFamilarRaven
2013-10-20, 06:46 AM
Massive Damage is not a variant rule. It is a core rule (though there are variant ways to deal with it). It's in the Combat section under injury and death. See here:
Debby

Interesting, i remember reading somewhere in the book that the rule was a variant because it scaled with size, so larger creatures could take more damage before having to roll the save.

But, as I can see, I was mistaken.

Now that I think about it, the rule I was reading was probably a variant to the rule of massive damage, which is probably why I thought the massive damage rule was a variant in the first place... go figure

Edit: yup, page 27 of the DMG, massive damage based on size :smalltongue:

Debihuman
2013-10-21, 08:00 AM
One thing I noticed was this:


If the Disintegrator Construct ends its turn with any creature or object within its reach, that creature is automatically targeted with a melee touch attack (+22). If the attack succeeds, the attack deals no direct damage, but the target is affected as though by a Disintegrate spell (same save as above.

A disintegrate spell does cause damage. If it didn't, it wouldn't actually disintegrate anyone. See here.


A thin, green ray springs from your pointing finger. You must make a successful ranged touch attack to hit. Any creature struck by the ray takes 2d6 points of damage per caster level (to a maximum of 40d6). Any creature reduced to 0 or fewer hit points by this spell is entirely disintegrated, leaving behind only a trace of fine dust. A disintegrated creature’s equipment is unaffected.

The second half of the text for disintegrate should be revised. Also, it appears that a disintegrator construct's ray is purple rather than green as noted in the spell; that should be mentioned somewhere.

Constructs do not heal damage normally. They can benefit from fast healing however. Adamantine damage is reduced but it has no effect on fast healing. Here is how fast healing should read.

Fast Healing (Ex): The disintegrator construct heals 10 hit points each round. It is still immediately destroyed when it reaches 0 hit points.

Levitation should match the italicized text. It hovers several inches off the ground not 2 feet.

Revised Monster below.


Disintegrator Construct

You hear a faint whirring sound as you look above you. A boxy, vicious-looking metal contraption, painted to resemble a snarling beast, follows you down the stairwell. It hovers a few inches above the stairs as it slowly descends. Several jointed appendages sweep around it. The tips of each arm end in an ominous purple glow.

Disintegrator Construct
Large Construct
Hit Dice: 30d10+30 (195 hp)
Speed: 10 ft.
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, +12 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 21
Base Attack/Grapple: +22/+29
Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Slam +26 melee (2d6+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft. /10 ft.
Special Attacks: Disintegrate, Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 10/Adamantine, Fast Healing 10, Levitation
Saves: Fort +10, Ref +10, Will +15
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 10, Con -, Int -, Wis 20, Cha 1
Skills: —
Feats: —
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 13
Alignment: Always Neutral
Advancement: 31-35 HD (Large), 36-40 HD (Huge)

Combat

A disintegrator construct is tasked with keeping certain areas clear of debris and intruders. The area and path it patrols is set at its creation. It will carry out its rounds indefinitely, destroying everything in its way until disabled.

Disintegrate (Sp): If any form of flight is used within 100 feet of a disintegrator construct, as a swift action it may target the nearest flyer with a purple disintegrate spell as though cast by a 20th-level cleric. This +21 ranged touch attack deals 40d6 points of damage. A successful Fortitude save (DC 22) reduces the damage to 5d6. If this damage reduces the creature or object to 0 or fewer hit points, it is entirely disintegrated. A disintegrated creature’s equipment is unaffected. Disintegrated creatures cannot be raised since this is a death effect. The save DC is Wisdom-based.

If the disintegrator construct ends its turn with any creature or object within its reach, that creature or object is automatically targeted with its disintegration ability as above.

Fast Healing (Ex): The disintegrator construct heals 10 hit points each round. It is still immediately destroyed when it reaches 0 hit points.

Levitation (Su): The Disintegrator floats three inches above any hard surface and ignores any form of difficult terrain.

Spell-Like Abilities (Sp): At Will—feather fall.

Debby