Martial Maneuvers and Stances

[tintin_man]

When I'm taking martial maneuvers, especially at first level, am I allowed to take some maneuvers, then count those for prerequisites? For example, I'm trying to add crusader to my goliath wolf totem barbarian and if I add Crusader 1 at level 9 (giving me effectively 5 levels for my initiator level so I can take 3rd level maneuvers) can I then take "foehammer" as a devoted spirit maneuver and immediately after take "defensive rebuke" and/or "revitalizing strike" as both of these require at least one devoted spirit maneuver. I also wanted to do this with "leading the attack" and "white raven tactics" from White Raven for my other two maneuvers. This would make it very worthwhile to wait until level 9 to get those couple of levels in crusader. I am aware that the maneuver at crusader 1 must be first level, but after that, I can take whatever I qualify for.

I've been reading through the ToB and I can't find anywhere that says this is illegal, but I feel I am stretching the rules with this interpretation. I'm assuming you have to pick them all simultaneously, basically limiting me to level 1 or 2 maneuvers as they are the only ones that don't have prerequisites. May have to change up my character if that's the case, as it seems like most of the good maneuvers for Crusader are level 3+.

Is anyone able to answer this for me?

[Namfuak]

As far as I know, this particular situation is never dealt with by the system, so I'd say it defaults to the general rule that you can apply effects in the most beneficial order (similar to how you can use feats to qualify and take other feats at the same level).

[Callin]

Yes.

As long as you meet the all pre reqs you can take the Maneuver and Stances. Since you have a High Enough Initiator Level all you need is the proper number of Maneuvers Known (stances count btw and vice versa)

Edit: See page 39 under Multiclass Characters

[tintin_man]

You can do that with feats? Does that mean I could take a feat that's a prerequisite for a prestige class at the level I'm taking that prestige class?

[Callin]

Technically no since you have to pick a class before you pick a feat.

[sabelo2000]

Negative. The rules specify that you choose your class before you choose any feats. So, a prc that requires Weapon Spcialization can't be taken until 5th level.

[tintin_man]

That's what I figured. I guess I knew that about the feats as you can take exotic weapon proficiency and weapon focus (or whatever) at the same level if you've got the feats for it.

So, the answer so far is yes, I can get some good maneuvers right off the bat! That's great to know. I should probably okay it with the DM first, but...AWESOME!

[Callin]

Like I said. Page 39 has the rules for it.

[Red Fel]

It's something a lot of players do. By delaying entry into a ToB class, they have a higher IL, and can start grabbing higher-level maneuvers (once qualifying with prereqs) right out of the gate.

Go nuts!

[John Longarrow]

Like I said. Page 39 has the rules for it.

In my PHB, it starts on page 59.

[Warlawk]

In my PHB, it starts on page 59.

Pretty sure that's page 39 in tome of battle specifically in reference to multiclass martial characters.

[John Longarrow]

Ah, missed which book he was referencing.