Terminator salvation.

[druid91]

I finally saw it, and I was kinda let down.

I mean, they sorta spoiled the whole "Marcus is a cyborg" thing, by pointing it out at the beginning, But then they treat it like it's some big special reveal.

I mean I actually really, really liked that idea, the idea of a human terminator torn between their humanity and the offers, and programming, of the machines was pretty cool... but then it would cut to Connor and his commanders and they'd be hamming it up like madmen.

Then it almost completely dropped the whole time-traveling shenanigans we've all come to love, and while I enjoyed the look at machine-ruled earth, they kept bringing up Kyle Reese being his dad, but never discussing the time machine.

Connor, for someone who's life was saved repeatedly by a t-800 seems bizarrely resistant to the idea of a machine that's trying to help. As well, he's played in a ridiculously hammy manner, also why isn't he leading the resistance?


Still, it was a pretty fun movie. And so, my question for you all is...

If given Marcus's choice... would you choose skynet? Or Connor?

I'd go with skynet... because, I'll own up to it... I'm a massive skynet fanboy.

[Tyrant]

If I were Marcus, I would probably go with Connor. No matter how good Skynet's offer is, I would have once been human and would have no desire to be the last sorta-human on the planet when Skynet wins.

As for some of your other comments, remember, this movie takes place a lot earlier than the future scenes we see in Terminator 1. That's one reason Connor isn't the leader yet and why things look different (lots of buildings, no mountains of skulls, etc.) That's also why there is no talk of time travel, as it is at least (if I remember the differences correctly) a decade off.

Then again, I believe Kyle Reese could be killed and Connor would be just fine. I believe in the original future that Kyle came from in T1 that Connor was not Reese's son. The Terminator and Reese going back in time changed the future. So, in Terminator 2 when more Terminators show up they are from a different future where Skynet had more advanced technology (thanks to it's creation being jumpstarted by bits and pieces of the T800 left behind in T1) so they send back a T1000 instead because it is even more advanced. Then the same thing happens and when T3 rolls around they send back the TX which not only is even more advanced, it also has a modified mission. Skynet has realized that it doesn't have info on Connor in the time period just before it became self aware so it targets his commanders instead and has the TX infiltrate the installation where the fateful command will be given to ensure it happens.

Now, it isn't in the movie, but I believe the TX at some point was able to pass on information to the emerging Skynet. That is the only way I can see for Skynet to intentionally target Kyle Reese in order to draw out Connor. Otherwise, how does Skynet know that will work? Reese should be just some random human to Skynet. On top of that, if Skynet believed that would work, why not just kill Reese and end Connor? Unless it knows that is futile because that Reese is not the Reese (thanks to monkeying with the timeline so much) who goes back in time to father Connor so his only use is as bait. This also explains why Skynet wants to kill Connor when he is a low level commander in the resistance and why it makes a big deal about Marcus being the instrument of his destruction (implying that many attempts have been made, possibly referring to the various time travel attempts).

That's my take anyway.

[Hiro Protagonest]

I've never seen this, but... Reese being Connor's dad contradicts Terminator 3. Reese being Connor's dad requires a stable time loop unless there's a really weird coincidence where the events in Terminator make it so that Sarah wouldn't meet whoever it was that knocked her up the first time and they knew it, Judgement Day being delayed requires anything other than a stable time loop.

[Tavar]

Part of this is due to Terminator Canon. Basically, in Terminator, the time loops aren't actually stable. While you can learn from time travel, sending something back results in a "new" future being created. There are something like, I don't know, 4 or 5 different versions of Skynet, apparently.

Which explains the differences, and why the tapes aren't entirely reliable.

[Avilan the Grey]

Somewhere on the web there is an actualy coherent summarize of all the timelines. Can't find it now.
Of course it was written before T:SCC.

[TheEmerged]

My personal headcanon is that this version of SkyNet remembers the previous version.

[Tavar]

My personal headcanon is that this version of SkyNet remembers the previous version.

Pretty sure that's not really headcanon. A few cersions if skynet were explicitly built using terminator parts.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Terminator Salvation bored me. I was a massive terminator fan as a small boy and enjoyed the much maligned third one but when Salvation came on TV I ended up doing other stuff with it on in the background.

All it did was remind me of how awesome its sound track was in the other movies.

SkyNet having a female avatar was just such an uninspired bit of rubbish.


My personal headcanon is that this version of SkyNet remembers the previous version.

There's a Dark Horse comic where SkyNet specifically sends terminator bits back so that its designers will have something to inspire them.


I've never seen this, but... Reese being Connor's dad contradicts Terminator 3. Reese being Connor's dad requires a stable time loop unless there's a really weird coincidence where the events in Terminator make it so that Sarah wouldn't meet whoever it was that knocked her up the first time and they knew it, Judgement Day being delayed requires anything other than a stable time loop.

In a weird way, Judgement Day being delayed re-stabilises the time loop. Terminator 2 contradicted the stable time loop first by averting the future Reese came from. I for some reason assumed that the time machine was something that required an AI level intelligence in control of the entire planet to build so it would follow that Reese can't go back in time without Judgement day. Terminator 3 implies that Skynet is basically destined to happen and can only be delayed, so there will also always be a future that can send Reese back to be Connor's dad.

Its possible that its actually Connor's existence that is what keeps putting judgement day back into the timeline. Maybe if Connor was never born to someone from the future it would be possible to change the future. But that isn't necessary if you go by the 'many worlds' solution to time travel, since in that paradigm Connar's dad is always the same Reese from one dimension and time travel can't change that Reese's background.

[Tyrant]

SkyNet having a female avatar was just such an uninspired bit of rubbish.

I'm pretty sure it only chose that face for dealing with Marcus because it was someone he knew. I didn't see anything to indicate that was Skynet's avatar or self image or whatever. I imagine Skynet doesn't see itself in those terms.

[KillianHawkeye]

Now, it isn't in the movie, but I believe the TX at some point was able to pass on information to the emerging Skynet. That is the only way I can see for Skynet to intentionally target Kyle Reese in order to draw out Connor. Otherwise, how does Skynet know that will work? Reese should be just some random human to Skynet. On top of that, if Skynet believed that would work, why not just kill Reese and end Connor? Unless it knows that is futile because that Reese is not the Reese (thanks to monkeying with the timeline so much) who goes back in time to father Connor so his only use is as bait. This also explains why Skynet wants to kill Connor when he is a low level commander in the resistance and why it makes a big deal about Marcus being the instrument of his destruction (implying that many attempts have been made, possibly referring to the various time travel attempts).

This paragraph has singlehandedly undone one of my biggest problems with Salvation, which was "How does Skynet even know about Kyle Reese?"

Thank you. Thank you so much.




I believe in the original future that Kyle came from in T1 that Connor was not Reese's son. The Terminator and Reese going back in time changed the future.

Hmm... it was heavily implied that the original Future John Connor knowingly sent Reese into the past to become his father. Reese having Sarah's picture, for example.

[Thrawn183]

I really liked how they tried to take the logical step following Terminator 2.

In 2, machine became human. In Salvation, human becomes machine (well, at least somewhat.)

I won't utter a peep about execution, but the theme and intent is clearly there.

[Tyrant]

Hmm... it was heavily implied that the original Future John Connor knowingly sent Reese into the past to become his father. Reese having Sarah's picture, for example.
It's been a while since I watched the first one but I always took it as a form of hero worship on Reese's part. Possibly coupled with a lack of women in the future.

[MLai]

Given the choice between Christian Bale and Skynet? My Marcus would choose Skynet.

Haven't you already read the blog which details how blowout!Bale's "artistic vision" was the overriding factor which completely destroyed any chances of Salvation being a good movie? The original script for Salvation was actually kind of decent. Then Bale's ego-edits made it unsalvageable.

[Tyrant]

Given the choice between Christian Bale and Skynet? My Marcus would choose Skynet.

Haven't you already read the blog which details how blowout!Bale's "artistic vision" was the overriding factor which completely destroyed any chances of Salvation being a good movie? The original script for Salvation was actually kind of decent. Then Bale's ego-edits made it unsalvageable.
Do you have any kind of link for that? I hadn't heard that before, though it doesn't surprise me after seeing the video of one of his on set outbursts.

[KillianHawkeye]

It's been a while since I watched the first one but I always took it as a form of hero worship on Reese's part. Possibly coupled with a lack of women in the future.

Well that's true, Reese had a pretty innocent affection towards Sarah Connor which came from the picture and the stories he heard about her from John. However, my belief is that those feelings were stoked by the intentional manipulation of John Connor. Why else would he give a picture of his mother to another soldier unless he knew they weren't just another random guy? It doesn't make sense. John gave Reese the picture because John knew that Reese was going to be his father.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I'm pretty sure Reese implies that pictures of Sarah Connor weren't exactly rare among the resistance, but I haven't seen that movie since I was 12 or something.


Given the choice between Christian Bale and Skynet? My Marcus would choose Skynet.


Given the choice between Christian Bale and the Microsoft Works Paper Clip, I'd be tempted to betray humanity to the machines.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm pretty sure Reese implies that pictures of Sarah Connor weren't exactly rare among the resistance, but I haven't seen that movie since I was 12 or something.

I don't think that's correct.

[Fjolnir]

If pictures of sarah conner were common, then skynet would have made the terminator use a bit better method of finding her than "hunt down every S. Conner in the L.A. phonebook"