Heroic Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground I

[RFLS]

Welcome, contestants, judges, and guests to the first Heroic Chef. This optimization challenge revolves around best representing various superheroes with 3.5 mechanics.

Contestants: You will need to present a write-up of your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build, as well as presenting a fully-fleshed out 20-level build in the table below. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

Menu: Generally, the "Secret Ingredient" will be drawn from Marvel or DC. However, suggestions are always welcome, and there may occasionally be heroes drawn from other sources.

32 point-buy is the presumed creation method, but we will generally allow other levels of point-buy.
If you do use a different point-buy, please make your case for its necessity in your entry. Keep in mind that for using exceptionally large or small point-buys may warrant deductions in elegance and/or power.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt and LA buyoff are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.

Cooking Time: Contestants will have until 11:59PM GMT on Wednesday, October 30th, 2013 to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, RFLS. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying. Judges will have until 11:59PM GMT on Wednesday, November 13th, 2013 to judge the builds and submit their scores. If no judges have scored by that point, only the scores of the first judge to submit will be counted.

Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Accuracy.

Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.
Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points. Please note the following: a legal source's relative obscurity should not be considered as penalizing Elegance, excepting the aforementioned issues with Unearthed Arcana. Using too many sources may be an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion, but a book's relative obscurity may not.
Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when reviewing the entries!

Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.NAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

CodeNAME OF ENTRY
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

2nd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

3rd|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

4th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

5th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

6th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

7th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

8th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

9th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

10th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

11th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

12th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

13th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

14th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

15th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

16th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

17th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

18th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

19th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

20th|New Class Level|
+x|
+x|
+x|
+x|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)Spells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

CodeSpells per day/Spells Known
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.
Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for as many contestants and judges as feel like playing!


This month's Heroic Ingredient is.....Deadpool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadpool)!

We will award 1st through 3rd places, as well as a shout-out for honorable mention. The honorable mention prize is given to the most daring or unexpected build. Judges, contestants and guests alike are invited to vote for honorable mention via PM.

Allez, optimiser!

Contestants


Xerlith
kestrel404
KrimsonNekros
retyldan
dysprosium
Ezekiul


Judges


Tim Proctor
Ortesk
IronFist


The Builds


{table=head]|Originality | Power | Elegance | Accuracy
Judge | | | |
Total | | | | [/table]

[Urpriest]

Interesting. You may want to make a policy of posting a wiki link to a description of the superhero in question, for the non-comics aware.

[ArqArturo]

Interesting. You may want to make a policy of posting a wiki link to a description of the superhero in question, for the non-comics aware.

Wiki on Deadpool (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadpool).

[RFLS]

Interesting. You may want to make a policy of posting a wiki link to a description of the superhero in question, for the non-comics aware.

Thanks for the suggestion; I've edited it in. I also bolded/increased the size of the text stating what the ingredient is.

[dysprosium]

Not sure if I'll get to compete -- time constraints and all.

I'll definitely be watching this thread to see the "definitive" Deadpool!

[Immabozo]

You honor me by making this based on my thread!

[kestrel404]

Subscribed.

[Legendxp]

When the contest is finished, where will we be able to view the builds and what will the prizes be?

[RFLS]

When the contest is finished, where will we be able to view the builds and what will the prizes be?

The builds will be posted in the OP in a tabled format. I'm currently working on prizes, but expect trophies, similar to those found in Iron Chef.

[Xerlith]

I will be competing in this one. Deadpool is right up my alley. :smallbiggrin:

[RFLS]

I will be competing in this one. Deadpool is right up my alley. :smallbiggrin:

Awesome! Glad to have you. Hopefully we get a lot more contestants and some judges.

[Deadline]

Huh, this looks kind of interesting. I'm curious, given that we are attempting to duplicate a superhero, and some superheroes have gadgetry as part of their schtick, can we assume that WBL should be a part of the dish?

[Ortesk]

As a huge dead pool fan i eagerly wait to see the builds. Question, are we only basing the builds off the marvel comics, or also the movies? The movies show deadpool having some powers the comics didnt

[RFLS]

Huh, this looks kind of interesting. I'm curious, given that we are attempting to duplicate a superhero, and some superheroes have gadgetry as part of their schtick, can we assume that WBL should be a part of the dish?

In the cases where this is entirely necessary (Batman, Ironman, etc), special allowance will be made for assumptions made concerning WBL. Otherwise, don't assume WBL.


As a huge dead pool fan i eagerly wait to see the builds. Question, are we only basing the builds off the marvel comics, or also the movies? The movies show deadpool having some powers the comics didnt

Comics will be the primary source. If you wish to use an interpretation that is significantly different than the comic version (for instance, the movie version of Deadpool from Origins: Wolverine was....different), specify that you are doing so. If the version differs significantly from the norm for that character (same example), Elegance points may be deducted.

[Kennisiou]

I'm really interested how people will gamerule his 4th wall breaking habits. I don't think there's any classes with "genre-savvy" as a class feature.


Well, maybe Bard...

[Xerlith]

What are the LA rules? Can we use LA-buyoff? What is the level/xp barrier?

[RFLS]

What are the LA rules? Can we use LA-buyoff? What is the level/xp barrier?

This is covered (although not explicitly) in the Kitchen section of the challenge. Relevant quote:


Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field.

[KrimsonNekros]

Sadly I imagine that Bride of Portable Hole Full of Beer isn't going to be allowed.

[kestrel404]

This is covered (although not explicitly) in the Kitchen section of the challenge. Relevant quote:

LA should probably be mentioned explicitly, then, as the default Iron Chef allows the judges to make the decision on whether LA is allowable/if it incurs a penalty, etc.

[Legendxp]

Originally posted by RFLS
The builds will be posted in the OP in a tabled format.

Sorry, but I don't know what/where OP is. I apologize for being so ill-informed.

[Xerlith]

Sorry, but I don't know what/where OP is. I apologize for being so ill-informed.

Right at the top. OP means opening post, uhm.

EDIT: One more question. Is Dragon Compendium allowed or is it a part of the Dragon Magazine ban?

[Tim Proctor]

I'll judge this one, as I own every Deadpool comic I consider myself a deadpool fanatic and suitable for judging.

[RFLS]

LA should probably be mentioned explicitly, then, as the default Iron Chef allows the judges to make the decision on whether LA is allowable/if it incurs a penalty, etc.

I will edit that in immediately.


I'll judge this one, as I own every Deadpool comic I consider myself a deadpool fanatic and suitable for judging.

Excellent! Thank you very much.

[RFLS]

Okay, looks like we have 1 judge and 1 player. Any other victims volunteers?

[kestrel404]

I will submit a build, because the little yellow boxes say that I will.

[Ortesk]

Okay, looks like we have 1 judge and 1 player. Any other victims volunteers?

I'll play judge, as an avid deadpool fan and preferring melee over fancy spells and such, i think i can provide a good voice as a judge. Also i know i could never do the build justice, so theres that factor

[KrimsonNekros]

I'm busy putting together my concept and figuring out the appropriate way to cheese this up just because it's Deadpool.

[RFLS]

I will submit a build, because the little yellow boxes say that I will.


I'll play judge, as an avid deadpool fan and preferring melee over fancy spells and such, i think i can provide a good voice as a judge. Also i know i could never do the build justice, so theres that factor


I'm busy putting together my concept and figuring out the appropriate way to cheese this up just because it's Deadpool.

Excellent! I'm happy to see such interest in this.

I've added a list of contestants/judges, as well as a table to keep track of the builds and their scores when they're submitted.

[Kennisiou]

I know this may not be the time for suggestions about future challenges, but you know what would be a really cool challenge? Challenging people to make characters based on heroes who have been radically different based on publishers/writers, including heroes who were different people (take for example the original Sandman compared with Neil Gaiman's Sandman, or the many different Spidermen). It would be interesting to see how the entries are different based on whether they draw on just one iteration of the hero or if they try to draw on all of them.

[relytdan]

well I have a concept in mind - so I will give a whirl at a build.

[IronFist]

I'm in as a judge.

[RFLS]

We have our first submitted build in an insanely short amount of time. How's it looking for everyone?

[kestrel404]

I'm not even going to start until this weekend.

[Ortesk]

I'm not even going to start until this weekend.

It is a daunting challenge

[Tim Proctor]

I'm looking at the grading criteria and think we should swap Power for Accuracy. If the goal is to make Deadpool not Dr. Doom then there should be penalizations beyond Elegance. Furthermore, if we're making Dr. Doom we don't want him with the strength to lift a planet and full caster levels, we want super strength and technology/magic at the level Dr. Doom can demonstrate.

[Ortesk]

I'm looking at the grading criteria and think we should swap Power for Accuracy. If the goal is to make Deadpool not Dr. Doom then there should be penalizations beyond Elegance. Furthermore, if we're making Dr. Doom we don't want him with the strength to lift a planet and full caster levels, we want super strength and technology/magic at the level Dr. Doom can demonstrate.

I agree there, i dont want to see a dead pool who can go pun pun on us. I want to see a canon deadpol who can do what dead pool did, or as close as dnd 3.5 allows

[RFLS]

I disagree - a character that "goes Punpun" would score high in Power, yes. However, he would almost certainly receive a 1 in Accuracy and Elegance. Meanwhile, it is important that the described character live up to a certain power level. You could certainly be true to Deadpool with a build that, at level 20, has Fast Healing 1, a Strength score of 26, and 7 levels in wizard (for Dimension Door) with the rest devoted to Fighter levels.

(Note: That's not very accurate either, but it gets a few of his basic abilities while being really, really weak.)

[Ortesk]

I disagree - a character that "goes Punpun" would score high in Power, yes. However, he would almost certainly receive a 1 in Accuracy and Elegance. Meanwhile, it is important that the described character live up to a certain power level. You could certainly be true to Deadpool with a build that, at level 20, has Fast Healing 1, a Strength score of 26, and 7 levels in wizard (for Dimension Door) with the rest devoted to Fighter levels.

(Note: That's not very accurate either, but it gets a few of his basic abilities while being really, really weak.)

This is also truthful as well, to see people find a nice equilibrium will be very beautiful and wonderful

[dysprosium]

I definitely have an idea for this. Real life get in line!

[Joe the Rat]

Something you might want to consider (possibly for future editions, if the rules are set) would be to redefine your "Sweet spot" slightly - the high point of the build in terms of emulating the character in question - where the build looks most like the character.

[squarecircle]

I agree there, i dont want to see a dead pool who can go pun pun on us. I want to see a canon deadpol who can do what dead pool did, or as close as dnd 3.5 allows

If we're going for flavour and accuracy rather than reasonable amounts of power, shouldn't we be looking for an easy meta-gaming trick or two? I mean, what screams "breaking the 4th wall" more than "hahaha obscure combination of rules that no-one else realizes exists"?

[Xerlith]

Shhh! Don't spoil it!

[Prime32]

One more question. Is Dragon Compendium allowed or is it a part of the Dragon Magazine ban?Seconding this question.

[RFLS]

Seconding this question.

Apologies; I don't know how I missed that. Dragon Compendium is indeed on the table.

[KrimsonNekros]

Is the Book of Nine Swords allowed? I'm not sure, but it could impact how i decide to go about my build.

[kestrel404]

Is the Book of Nine Swords allowed? I'm not sure, but it could impact how i decide to go about my build.

If you mean Tome of Battle: The book of Nine Swords, then yes.

If you look at the first few pages and it has "Published by Wizards of the Coast", then it's a valid source.

[KrimsonNekros]

Awesome thanks for the clarification :)

[JanusJones]

Great idea - love to see the results, and possibly indulge some time!

[EriktheRed]

Looking forward to seeing the builds, and judge commentary.

[KrimsonNekros]

How do Level Adjustments affect the build?

[RFLS]

How do Level Adjustments affect the build?

As normal. LA buyoff is not in play.

[kestrel404]

Since there is no LA buyoff, you can either shorten the build (only 19 or fewer rows on the table) or replace lines with LA.

The second is preferable if you're going to be applying an acquired template after the character's 1st level, or using a progression (like the Ghost or Werewolf progressions from the WoTC website, or something out of Savage Species). The former is better if you're using a race or template that has a static inhereted LA.

[KrimsonNekros]

Ok thanks for the clarification. The rules on LAs were never really explained that well in my games.

[dysprosium]

My build is coming along and I have more time now that my Iron Chef build has been entered.

[Ezekiul]

I would like to participate.

[RFLS]

I would like to participate.

Awesome! Glad to have you.

[RFLS]

Well, we've already got a few builds in well before the deadline - I'm really happy with how this is going!

Which heroes would you guys like to see in the coming Heroic Chefs?

[dysprosium]

I just thought of something.

Since all entries are (presumably) going to be named "Deadpool" how are we going to differentiate between the entries?

I suggest during presentation, the chariman puts "Entry #1," "Entry #2," "Entry #3" or somesuch.

[RFLS]

I just thought of something.

Since all entries are (presumably) going to be named "Deadpool" how are we going to differentiate between the entries?

I suggest during presentation, the chariman puts "Entry #1," "Entry #2," "Entry #3" or somesuch.

That is indeed what I'll be doing. I may give them codenames, instead, so that they're easier to talk about.

[kestrel404]

Let the chairman name the entries. Though I didn't directly title my entry as 'Deadpool', so it's possible they'll all have distinct names.

Edit: And Ninja'd

[dysprosium]

That is indeed what I'll be doing. I may give them codenames, instead, so that they're easier to talk about.


Let the chairman name the entries. Though I didn't directly title my entry as 'Deadpool', so it's possible they'll all have distinct names.

I figured as much but it was just something I thought about while working on the build.

Thank you! :smallcool:

[EriktheRed]

Well, we've already got a few builds in well before the deadline - I'm really happy with how this is going!

Which heroes would you guys like to see in the coming Heroic Chefs?

How about... Booster Gold?


http://spinoff.comicbookresources.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/booster-gold.jpg

[Immabozo]

Edit: And Deadpool'd

Fixed it for you

[kestrel404]

Well, we've already got a few builds in well before the deadline - I'm really happy with how this is going!

Which heroes would you guys like to see in the coming Heroic Chefs?

Batman.

Also, Doctor Doom.

[KrimsonNekros]

Last question then I actually need to do crunch time and get to work. For those of us potentially interested in using a Savage Races progression, do we have to finish all the levels or can we stop once we have all the abilities/ features we need from it?

[kestrel404]

That's answered in Savage Species itself - you cannot multiclass until you've finished the full progression. Unfortunately, taking levels in a prestige class is multiclassing, even if it doesn't count normally for multiclass penalties.

Edit: This does not apply to the Savage progressions posted by WoTC on their website (which is acceptable materials for the normal Iron Chef, but I don't know about this one) - the Werewolf, ghost, and others posted there can be taken for just what you want.

[SoraWolf7]

Spider-Man, if possible, even though I've seen someone build him already.

Wolverine would be one people might like to see.

Wonder Woman, since she is probably the closest thing to a D&D character IN DC comics.

Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes version) would be fun.

And Superboy, possibly the original Tactile TK version.

[Kennisiou]

Spider-Man, if possible, even though I've seen someone build him already.

Wolverine would be one people might like to see.

Wonder Woman, since she is probably the closest thing to a D&D character IN DC comics.

Blue Beetle (Jaime Reyes version) would be fun.

And Superboy, possibly the original Tactile TK version.

Yes to bolded. Yesyesyes to bolded.

To underlined... Dream from Gaiman's sandman is basically an epic level wizard who warps reality as he sees fit, but that's more because epic level wizards are basically beyond godhood and Dream is, well, beyond godhood.

[ArqArturo]

I'd like to see Green Lantern (psionics FTW), or maybe even Hellboy.

[Legendxp]

H U L K S M A S H Puny Competition!!!

[IronFist]

+1 for Hulk! :smallwink:

[dysprosium]

+1 for Hulk! :smallwink:

I thought you would vote for Iron Fist actually. :smalltongue:

[IronFist]

I thought you would vote for Iron Fist actually. :smalltongue:

A fair point. :smallbiggrin:

[Prime32]

I'm going to suggest Kamen Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Series), letting contestants choose the individual Rider to build.

[PrinceOfMadness]

Two heroes I'd like to see statted up: Silver Surfer and Nick Fury.

Also, it might be an interesting idea for a later contest: instead of cooking up a 'meal', cook up a 'banquet' consisting of a superhero team. Examples could include the Fantastic Four, Justice League, Avengers, various groupings of X-Men, etc.

[ArqArturo]

I'm going to suggest Kamen Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Series), letting contestants choose the individual Rider to build.

I never thought he had a manga. Cool!.

[SoraWolf7]

I'm going to suggest Kamen Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Series), letting contestants choose the individual Rider to build.

I approve so hard, because a lot of the Kamen Riders got Manga and I'd love to see the forum's take on ones like Agito, Ichigo, or Wizard.

[ArqArturo]

I approve so hard, because a lot of the Kamen Riders got Manga and I'd love to see the forum's take on ones like Agito, Ichigo, or Wizard.

In that case, can we add Gutts from Berserk? Or, maybe this might be obscure but the manga is awesome, Thorkell the Tall from Farm-- Err, Vinland Saga.

[IronFist]

I'm going to suggest Kamen Rider (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamen_Rider_Series), letting contestants choose the individual Rider to build.

I'm a huge Kame Rider fan, but I am against that choice. It would be hell to judge.

[Prime32]

Kame Riderhttp://farm9.staticflickr.com/8019/7687773596_c369bee2b1.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/anmm_thecommons/7687773596/)
:smalltongue:

[AMFV]

I would love to participate in this, I'll compete if there are enough judges, but if not I'm comfortable judging as well, this is one of my favorite uses of D&D.

[relytdan]

well with a whole marvel/dc universe - I could see something like poison ivy as interesting.

[ArqArturo]

So, um, where's the builds? I wanna see :p.

[RFLS]

So, um, where's the builds? I wanna see :p.

Sorry, buddy - not until the 30th.

[dysprosium]

Well I got my entry in. I hope Deadpool likes it!

Good luck everybody!

[Xerlith]

So my HDD took one to the disk and i'm on my backup.
I'm now in the proces of making the build from scratch. Hopefully I'll be on time. Anyway, good luck everyone. :smallwink:

[Ortesk]

So my HDD took one to the disk and i'm on my backup.
I'm now in the proces of making the build from scratch. Hopefully I'll be on time. Anyway, good luck everyone. :smallwink:

Im sure your make it, its like riding a bike

[Xerlith]

To be honest, while spreadsheeting 20-lvl builds, skillpoints keep confusing me. Over ten years in the business and I still can't manage it right. :smallbiggrin:

[RFLS]

Hey - the deadline is here and gone! I'll ask that no one post anything until I post the last of the builds. At that time, judging may commence. Without further ado, and in no particular order, I give you....


Deadpool!

[RFLS]

Xend-re karph

Background

Background
when first joining the order of the paladin Xend-re karph was sent out on a vision quest of sorts, while out in the wild he was captured and taken to the The Shriver location where he was tortured, after he had been properly strapped in, the device begins slicing, rending, and chopping at his flesh - it only took a few seconds to escape his bonds but the damage to his flesh was done, He would be scard & severely disfigured for life. after fleeing the location and healing his wounds as best he could he made his way back to the paladin order to give his account of the vision he had.

Elan
–2 Charisma
not subject to spells or effects that affect humanoids only, such as charm person or dominate person
Medium
speed is 30 feet
Naturally Psionic: Elans gain 2 bonus power points at 1st level.
Resistance (Su):
Resilience (Su):
Repletion (Su):
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (+4 from int mod - Elven, Dwarven, Draconic, Terran)
Level Adjustment: +0

cannot be shaken.
can’t be frightened or nauseated.
can’t be panicked or sickened. You gain a +2 bonus on Fortitude saves.
never become confused or fatigued. You gain regeneration 1 as an extraordinary ability. Good and chaotic weapons deal normal damage to you. If you lose a limb or body part, the lost portion regrows in 180 minutes. You can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.
never become exhausted. You gain a +2 bonus on Will saves.
When disabled, you can make either a full-round action each round, or a move action and a standard action. Your regeneration increases to 2; lost body parts regrow in 90 minutes.
Once per day, as a free action, you can gain the benefit of barkskin as a spell-like ability (caster level 5th). Your regeneration increases to 3; lost body parts regrow in 45 minutes.
regeneration increases to 5; lost body parts regrow in 15 minutes.

slow aging process - Elan
regenerate any destroyed tissue at a super-human rate - Regeneration through The Shriver magical location
scar tissue causing his appearance to be severely disfigured - The Shriver magical location - low Cha Score

flaw Vulnerable
flaw Meager Fortitude

is multilingual; in addition to English, he can speak German, Spanish, and Japanese - bonus languages Elven, Dwarven, Draconic, Terran
superb assassin and mercenary versed in multiple forms of martial arts expert swordsman and marksman - varied classes
- immune to all known diseases

Alignment: LE

WBL:
Heward’s handy haversack 2,000 gp (a magic satchel containing all of his unlimited weaponry and ammo)
Belt of giant Strength +4 16,000 gp (super-human strength)
Headband of intellect +4 16,000 gp
Cloak of Charisma +4 16,000 gp
Healing Blood: Fast Healing 2 182,000 gp
Greenstone Amulet, (grants total immunity to mind-affecting)



Abilities
Abilities
32 point buy
Str 15 dex 10 con 11 int 11 Wis 18 cha 6
lvl4 str+1
lvl8 int+1
lvl12 con+1
lvl16 int+1
lvl20 int+1
Items: str+4, int+4, cha+4
str 20 dex 10 con 12 int 18 wis 18 cha 10


Build
Effective Character Levels
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|
Paladin of Tyranny|1|2|0|0|concentration 4|dodge, mobility, agile|Aura of evil, detect good smite good 1/day

2nd|
Paladin of Tyranny|2|3|0|0|spot 2|-|Divine grace, deadly touch

3rd|
Paladin of Tyranny|3|3|1|1|spot 4|weapon focus greatsword|Aura of despair,divine health

4th|
Paladin of Tyranny|4|4|1|1|Disguise 1|-|Rebuke undead

5th|
Paladin of Tyranny|5|4|1|1|Disguise 2|-|Smite good 2/day, special mount

6th|
Paladin of Tyranny|6|5|2|2|Disguise 3|weapon focus composite longbow|Cause disease 1/week

7th|
Paladin of Tyranny|7|5|2|2|Disguise 4|-|-

8th|
Paladin of Tyranny|8|6|2|2|Hide 2|-|-

9th|
Paladin of Tyranny|9|6|3|3|Hide 4|Zen Archery|Cause disease 2/week

10th|
Paladin of Tyranny|10|7|3|3|Hide 6|-|Smite good 3/day

11th|
Paladin of Tyranny|11|7|3|3|Hide 8|-|-

12th|
Duskblade|12|9|3|5|knowledge nature 2|point blank shot|Arcane attunement, armored mage (light)

13th|
Duskblade|13|10|3|6|Move Silently 2|-|Combat Casting

14th|
Duskblade|14|10|4|6|Move Silently 4|-|Arcane channeling

15th|
Serpent Slayer|14|12|4|8|Move Silently 6|power attack|venomguard +1 exsisting spellcasting-paladin

16th|
Serpent Slayer|15|13|4|9|Move Silently 8|-|detect poison +1 exsisting spellcasting-paladin

17th|
Serpent Slayer|15|13|5|9|Spellcraft 2|-|poison immunity +1 exsisting spellcasting-paladin

18th|
Ninja|15|13|7|9|Spellcraft 5,concentration 5|precise shot|Ki power, sudden strike +1d6, trapfinding

19th|
Ninja|16|13|8|9|spot 5,Disguise 5,knowledge nature 5,Tumble 1|-|Ghost step (invisible)

20th|
Ninja|17|14|8|10|Tumble 5|-|Sudden strike +2d6, poison use
[/table]

Use of the Secret Ingredient

as a challenge attempted to fullfill each of the "Deadpool" things that I saw as character abilities as they were mentioned.
as the SI wa listed as a villain the alignment LE seemed a good route to go with the build, while attempting to make an expert swordsman and marksman was straight forward, the aspects of an assassin, with multiple forms of martial arts on this build are used but not the predominant feature.



Spells Known per Day

Spells Known per Day
does not include bonus spells from high wisdom.
{table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

4th|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

5th|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|1|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|1|1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|1|1|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|2|1|1|0|-|-|-|-|-|-

[/table]



Spells & Powers Prepared/Memorized

Spells & Powers Prepared/Memorized
1st
Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus
2nd
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level
3rd
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
4th
Restoration: Restores level and ability score drains.


Sources

Sources
Lords of Madness 216
Mof 170
SK 166
phb 42, 90-91
phb2 19
Cadv 5
ua 54
fiendish codex II 52
XPH 9
DMG 247, 249

[RFLS]

Imp-pool


Name: Wade
Race: Imp
Levels: Imp 7/Ranger 3/Crimson Scourge 10
Starting Attributes: Str 10 Dex 12 Con 16 Int 14 Wis 14 Cha 16

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features
1st|Imp HD 1|+1|+2|+2|+2|Hide 4, Move Silent 4, Survival 2, Listen 4, Spot 4, Search 4, Spellcraft 4, Intimidate 2, Bluff 2, Speak Lang 2|Otherworldly Countenance(Ugly)|sting 1d4, poison (1 Dex, 1d4 Dex), +1 natural armor
2nd|Imp HD 2|+2|+3|+3|+3|Hide 5, Move Silent 5, Listen 5, Spot 5, Search 5, Spellcraft 5, Gather Info 2||Weapon Finesse, detect good at will, detect magic at will, +2 Wis
3rd|Imp LA 1|+2|+3|+3|+3|||Polymorph (Kelvezu), fly 30 ft. (perfect), fire resistance 5, +2 natural armor
4th|Imp HD 3|+3|+3|+3|+3|Hide 6, Move Silent 6, Listen 6, Spot 6, Survival 3, Intimidate 3|Precognitive Visions|poison (1d4 Dex, 1d4 Dex), DR 5/silver or holy, invisibility at will (self only), +2 Dex
5th|Imp LA 2|+3|+3|+3|+3|||Regeneration 1, suggestion1/day, +3 natural armor
6th|Imp LA 3|+3|+3|+3|+3|||Polymorph (Dog), fly 50 ft. (perfect), commune1/week (3 questions), +2 Dex
7th|Imp LA 4|+3|+3|+3|+3|||Poison (1d4 Dex, 2d4 Dex), fast healing 2, commune1/week (6 questions)
8th|Ranger 1|+4|+5|+5|+3|Handle Animal 3, Heal 1, Survival 5, Gather Info 3||Favored Enemy Arcanist, Urban Tracking, Voice of the City
9th|Ranger 2|+5|+6|+6|+3|Handle Animal 6, Gather Info 4, Knowledge (Dung) 1, Knowledge (Geo) 1, Knowledge (Nature) 1||Two Weapon Fighting
10th|Ranger 3|+6|+6|+6|+4|Handle Animal 8, Move Silent 9, Hide 9|Cloak of Obyrith|Endurance
11th|Crimson Scourge 1|+7|+8|+8|+4|Gather Info 10, Intimidate 5||Kid gloves, Special Dispensation
12th|Crimson Scourge 2|+8|+9|+9|+4|Gather Info 11, Bluff 5, Intimidate 7||Swift tracker
13th|Crimson Scourge 3|+9|+9|+9|+5|Gather Info 12, Intimidate 12, Bluff 7|Demonic Skin|Painful strike +1d6
14th|Crimson Scourge 4|+10|+10|+10|+5|Gather Info 13, Intimidate 13, Bluff 13||Immovable heart
15th|Crimson Scourge 5|+11|+10|+10|+5|Gather Info 14, Intimidate 14, Bluff 14, Knowledge (Local) 5||Improved disarm
16th|Crimson Scourge 6|+12|+11|+11|+6|Gather Info 15, Intimidate 15, Bluff 15, Move Silent 14|Heart of Nabassu|Painful strike +2d6
17th|Crimson Scourge 7|+13|+11|+11|+6|Gather Info 16, Intimidate 16, Bluff 16, Hide 14||Threaten
18th|Crimson Scourge 8|+14|+12|+12|+6|Gather Info 17, Intimidate 17, Bluff 17, Spot 10||Deadened hide
19th|Crimson Scourge 9|+15|+12|+12|+7|Gather Info 18, Intimidate 18, Bluff 18, Survival 10|Primordial Scion|Painful strike +3d6
20th|Crimson Scourge 10|+16|+13|+13|+7|Gather Info 19, Intimidate 19, Bluff 19, Move Silent 19||Smell of blood[/table]


Perhaps the most obvious question is, why an imp? There are many reasons, but the big one is regeneration. Fast healing is common, but real regeneration is pretty rare. But the more I looked at it, the better it fit. Imps are loud, obnoxious, obvious, stealthy, deceitful, backstabbing little buggers who can occasionally call on insider knowledge to pull off completely unexpected miracles. They also have alternate forms - which isn't very fitting, until you realize that it's an at-will transformation into something that doesn't look like an imp - maybe something that looks more like Deadpool? How about a black-and-red demon who are best known for being assassins? How's that for a 'costume'?

The second major element of the build is the Crimson Scourge prestige class. This was virtually built for use by Deadpool - it's a bounty hunter PrC that eventually becomes immune to subdual damage. And any damage that doesn't ignore the Imp's regeneration is subdual damage - so any damage that is not Acid or Holy? Immune. This includes things like swords, bullets, being lit on fire, or blasted by angry gods with lightning bolts - all of these literally result in nothing more than cosmetic (and comedic) issues. On top of that are a lot of in-theme class features, like Painful strike and Threaten. Really, all of the class features are spot on. And the skills available really bring out the 'Merc with the Mouth' aspects of Deadpool - Gather Information and Intimidate being two of the core skills of the class, and Bluff, knowledge (local), stealth and perception skills all being class skills also help a great deal.

Ranger is the glue that allows Imp & Crimson Scourge to work well together, but mostly thanks to the numerous Alternat Class Features used - Urban tracking, Arcane Hunter (the most dangerous prey!), and Voice of the City (I can talk to anyone, I just need to talk louder and slower - that always works!) all work together nicely. Two Weapon FIghting and Endurance are also very in-character for Deadpool.
But the real gems on the top of the build? The Abyssal Heritor feats. Because all those little things that make Wade Wilson into the Crazy but Loveable (not really, he's just crazy) Deadpool? There's a feat for that - and it's one of the Abyssal Heritor feats. Or in this case, a bunch of them! And even better, taking those feats makes you ever more Chaotic! Let's go down the list, shall we?

Those little yellow boxes? That comes from the Imp's Commune ability, but also from the Precognitive Visions feat. This is Wade breaking the fourth wall for fun and profit (but mostly fun). He can see the future, and ask the audience questions about what's later in the comic! Oh, what fun we shall have together, little yellow boxes!

Wade's ugly scarred mug? Otherworldly Countenance, his very first feat! It has an 'ugly' setting that lets you intimidate better, and cause nausea in combat! And since it's a feat, it carries over to all his forms! How sweet is that?

The other 4 abyssal heritor feats are just icing - they let Wade soak up even more punishment without much caring. Negative levels, holy weapon damage, even more armor class. Primordial Scion - the capstone? Even lets Wade really stick it to those 'lawful' and boring guys!


Wade, Imp of the Perverse (In Kelvezu Form)
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)
Hit Dice: 6d8 + 30 (55 hp)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 30 ft, fly 60 ft (good)
AC: 38 (+10 dex, +15 natural, +2 armor, +1 deflection), touch 22, flat foot 28
Standard Attack: +1 Cold Iron Rapier +14 (+6 BAB, +6 Str, +1 Enhancement, +1 Insight)
Full Attack: +1 Silver Rapier +12/+7 and Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger +12
Damage: +1d6+7/18-20 plus poison, 1d4+3 plus poison
Face/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Poison (DC 21, 1d6 Con OR DC 21 1 Dex/1d4 Dex), Sneak Attack +8d6, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: DR 5/Silver or Holy, DR 3/Lawful, Darkvision 60ft, Immunity to Poison, resist 5 fire, Regeneration 1 (Acid, Holy), Fast Healing 2, Favored Enemy Arcanists, Voice of the City
Spell-like abilities:
At-Will - Detect Magic, Detect Good, Invisibility (CL 12)
1/Day - Suggestion (CL 12, DC 16)
1/Week - Commune (6 Questions, CL12)
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +17, Will +8
Abilities: Str 23, Dex 31, Con 20, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 17
Skills: Handle Animal +11, Move Silent +27, Hide +27, Gather Info +7, Knowledge (Dung) +3, Knowledge (Geo) +3, Knowledge (Nature) +3, Listen +9, Spot +7, Survival +6, Intimidate +9, Heal +4
Languages: Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, Draconic, Common, Undercommon
Feats: Otherworldly Countenance (Ugly Mug), Precognitive Visions (Little Yellow Boxes), Cloak of Obyrth (Pain Tolerance), Weapon Finesse, Urban Tracking, Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance
Equipment: +4 con (16k), +1 weapon (2.5k), +2 armor bracer (4k), +1 prot ring (2k), +2 strength (4k), Bag of Holding (2k), Clasp of Acid Resist (1.5K), Cloak of Resist +1 (1k), various other
Tactics: Wade is very much an assassin and [B]ambusher. He tracks his prey, preferably through urban environments, but if he must he can shift into 'Dogpool' mode and pick up their scent in the wilds. With at-will invisibility, excellent stealth skills and that +8d6 sneak attack and continually poisoned weapons (DC21 for 1d6 con), Wade is usually going to sneak up on someone he wants dead, then then dead them.
His two vulnerabilities are shored up in several ways - first, he's got Resist 10 against acid damage, up to 50 points a day, thanks to a magic item. The hole in his defenses against Holy/Blessed weapons is shored up somewhat by the DR 3/Lawful he's got thanks to the Cloak of Obyrith. On top of that, he's got Fast Healing 2, which is not subject to the issues with Regeneration - as long as he's still standing, any damage that gets through his regeneration is healed by his fast healing! So his 'low' hit point total is very deceptive. Over the long term, Wade can easily weather virtually any attacker that can't one-shot him, through evading and maneuver.
When forced to retreat, Wade can shift into his Tiny Imp form, which has a faster fly speed and perfect maneuverability. Other dirty tricks include using his at-will invisibility on his allies, using 'Commune' to read the little yellow boxes and find out how the story ends, and using Suggestion on pretty much anything that has a mind (thanks to Voice of the City, he can get his point across to ANYTHING, sometimes...), and shifting to imp-form mid combat while invisible, to confuse things and use a different kind of poison.

Wade, The Merc with The Mouth (In Kelvezu Form)
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)
Hit Dice: 6d8 + 36 + 10d6 + 60 (156 hp)
Initiative: +16
Speed: 30 ft, fly 60 ft (good)
AC: 61 (+13 dex, +19 natural, +8 armor, +5 deflection, +1 insight, +5 shield), touch 29, flat foot 49
Standard Attack: +4 Shocking Cold Iron Rapier +29 (+16 BAB, +8 Str, +4 Enhancement, +1 Insight)
Full Attack: +4 Magebane Cold Iron Rapier +27/+22/+17/+12 and +2 Adamantine Kukri +25
Damage: +1d6+12/18-20 plus 1d6 electric plus poison, 1d4+6/18-20 plus plus poison
Face/Reach: 5ft/5ft
Special Attacks: Poison (DC 22, 1d6 Con OR DC 22 1 Dex/1d4 Dex), Sneak Attack +8d6, spell-like abilities, Kid Gloves, Threaten, Painful Strike +3d6
Special Qualities: DR 5/Silver or Holy, DR 6/Lawful, Darkvision 60ft, Immunity to Poison and Non-Lethal damage, resist 5 fire, resist 30 acid, Regeneration 1 (Acid, Holy), Fast Healing 2, Favored Enemy Arcanists, Voice of the City, Swift Tracker, Immovable Heart
Spell-like abilities:
At-Will - Detect Magic, Detect Good, Invisibility (CL 12)
1/Day - Suggestion (CL 12, DC 16)
1/Week - Commune (6 Questions, CL12)
Saves: Fort +27, Ref +32, Will +20
Abilities: Str 27(+8), Dex 37(+13), Con 26(+8), Int 20(+5), Wis 22(+6), Cha 26(+8)
Skills: Bluff +28, Handle Animal +15, Move Silent +41, Hide +36, Gather Info +30, Knowledge (Dung) +7, Knowledge (Geo) +7, Knowledge (Nature) +7, Knowledge (Local) +11, Listen +11, Spot +15, Survival +15, Intimidate +34, Heal +8
Languages: Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, Draconic, Common, Undercommon
Feats: Otherworldly Countenance (Ugly Mug), Precognitive Visions (Little Yellow Boxes), Cloak of Obyrth (Pain Tolerance), Heart of the Nabassu, Demonic Skin, Primordial Scion, Weapon Finesse, Urban Tracking, Two Weapon Fighting, Endurance, Special Dispensation, Improved Disarm
Equipment: Belt of Magnificence +6 (200k), +4 Magebane Cold Iron Rapier (50k), +2 Adamantine Kukri (7k), +8 Bracers of Armor (64k), +3 Animated Heavy Shield of Greater Acid Resistance (91k), Portable Hole (20k), Cloak of Resistance +5 (25k), Ring of Protection +5 (50k), Luckstone (20k), various other
Tactics: In the latter portion of his career, Wade has gone from Assassin to Mercenary. The primary difference is that he doesn't really bother to hide in the shadows much - he can still do so, but mostly he waltzes brazenly up to the person he plans on killing, and makes them dead. And he's finally figured out how to kick someone's rear without killing them! But thanks to his toughened hide, improved resistances and much larger HP pool, he is now just as hard to kill as the original! Actually, given all the armor he's got, he's kind of like super-tank Deadpool. Can you imaging, Deadpool in a tank?
Also, his reputation preceeds him in most cases as well, as he can threaten and bluff his way through many situations without needing (direct) violence, saving quite a bit of time. He still has all of his old tricks, and many of them have gotten better (even more little yellow boxes!). So really, he uses a lot of his old tricks, and at the same time he'll be disarming, frightening and pummeling his enemies into submission - instead of into leaking hunks of meat. Neat!


The Imp is from the SRD, but the breakdown into class levels is from Savage Species.
Crimson Scourge and most of the Ranger ACFs are from Cityscape.
The Abyssal Heritor feats (all feats that were taken from class levels) are from Fiendish Codex I.
The Kelvezu is from Monster Manual II.
Dogpool is from Deadpool Corps.

[RFLS]

Deadpool

Basics

http://latimesherocomplex.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/deadpool-capcom2.jpg?w=576&h=850
CN human half troll Jester 6/Ranger 2/Swordsage 2/Master of Masks 1/Battle Dancer 1/Warblade 2/Heir of Siberys 2
32 point buy
starting: Str 8, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 16
after template: Str 14, Dex 18, Con 17, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14
ability points: ECL 8 – Con, ECL 12 – Dex, ECL 16 – Dex, ECL 20 – Wis

Introducing Deadpool
Hey you! Whadda ya think you’re doing?
Deadpool?
The one and only! And why am I here?
Can’t tell you that.
Well I’m like a certain ghost from that movie—you know say my name three times and all. You really didn’t think you could have some kind of contest involving me and NOT involve me did you?
Sure that’s it then . . .
Got any snacks? Ooooh Golden Girls is on! Thank you for being a friend . . .
I’m making a D&D character build based on you.
Really!! That’s cool! Wait a minute—D&D? Isn’t that for NERDS?
Um . . .
Well whatever, let’s see what that hottie Dorothy is wearing tonight! Hold on! I know a little about D&D so if you’re making me, you have to make me awesome right?
Of course.
Great! Make me a Tier 1 20th level Wizard and call it a day! I totally rule the Tippyverse you know.
Actually I’m supposed to emulate what you really can do within the boundaries of 3.5.
Pffft! Boundaries.

Build
{table=head]ECL|Class|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Skills|Feats|Class Features


1|Level Adjustment +1|
-|
-|
-|
-| | |darkvision 60 ft, fast healing 5, scent


2|Level Adjustment +2|
-|
-|
-|
-| | |


3|Level Adjustment +3|
-|
-|
-|
-| | |


4|Level Adjustment +4|
-|
-|
-|
-| | |ability adjustments Str +6, Dex +2, Con +6, Int -2, Cha -2


5|Jester 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Bluff 3, Disguise 3, Hide 4, Intimidate 4, Move Silently 4, Perform (acting) 3, Perform (comedy) 4, Tumble 3|Able Learner, Heroic Spirit|fascinate, inspiring quip, jester’s audacity +1, jester’s performance


6|Jester 2|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (acting) +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Speak Language (to taste)|Deflect Arrows (B)|


7|Jester 3|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (acting) +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Speak Language (to taste)|Combat Focus|taunt


8|Ranger 1|
+3|
+3|
+5|
+3|Disable Device 1, Hide +1, Listen 1, Move Silently +1, Search 1, Spot 1, Tumble +1| |favored enemy (to taste), trap expert acf, voice of the city acf


9|Ranger 2|
+4|
+4|
+6|
+3| Disable Device +1, Hide +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Search +1, Spot +1, Tumble +1|Two Weapon Fighting (B)|combat style


10|Jester 4|
+5|
+4|
+7|
+4|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (acting) +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Speak Language (to taste)|Evasive Reflexes|


11|Swordsage 1|
+5|
+4|
+9|
+6|Hide +1, Intimidate +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Tumble +1|Weapon Focus (B)|discipline focus (tiger claw), quick to act +1


12|Jester 5|
+5|
+4|
+9|
+6|Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (acting) +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Tumble +1| |jester’s audacity +2


13|Jester 6|
+6|
+5|
+10|
+7| Bluff +1, Disguise +1, Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (acting) +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Tumble +1|Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Snatch Arrows (B)|calming performance


14|Master of Masks 1|
+6|
+5|
+12|
+9|Hide +1, Intimidate +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Tumble +1| |persona masks (assassin, gladiator)


15|Battle Dancer 1|
+7|
+5|
+14|
+9|Hide +1, Listen +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Tumble +1|Improved Unarmed Strike (B)|AC Bonus (Cha)


16|Warblade 1|
+8|
+7|
+14|
+9|Hide +1, Intimidate +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Move Silently +1, Tumble +1|Combat Stability|battle clarity (Reflex saves), weapon aptitude


17|Heir of Siberys 1|
+8|
+9|
+16|
+11|Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Tumble +1|Pursue (B)|additional action point


18|Heir of Siberys 2|
+9|
+10|
+17|
+12| Hide +1, Move Silently +1, Tumble +1| |Siberys mark (mind blank)


19|Warblade 2|
+10|
+11|
+17|
+12|Disable Device +1, Intimidate +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Search +1, Tumble +1|Combat Vigor|uncanny dodge


20|Swordsage 2|
+11|
+11|
+18|
+13|Disable Device +1, Hide +1, Intimidate +1, Move Silently +1, Perform (comedy) +1, Search +1, Tumble +1| |AC Bonus (Wis)[/table]

Total Skill Ranks at ECL 20: Bluff 8, Disable Device 4, Disguise 8, Hide 18, Intimidate 9, Listen 4, Move Silently 18, Perform (acting) 8, Perform (comedy) 14, Search 4, Speak Language 3, Spot 2, Tumble 15

Spells per day
{table=head]ECL|0th|1st|2nd|3rd
1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6|3|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
9|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
10|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
11|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
12|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
13|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
14|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
15|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
16|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
17|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
18|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-
19|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-
20|3|3|2|0|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Spells Known
0: dancing lights, detect magic, flare, light, mending, prestidigation,
1: grease, silent image, obscuring mist, ventriloquism
2: blur, mirror image, sound burst, touch of idiocy
3: displacement, haste


Maneuvers Known
11: blood in the water (TC stance), emerald razor (DM), mountain hammer (SD), sapphire nightmare blade (DM), shadow jaunt (SH), rabid wolf strike (TC), wolf fang strike (TC)
16: fountain of blood (TC), leaping dragon stance (TC stance), overwhelming mountain strike (SD), soaring raptor strike (TC)
19: pouncing charge (TC)
20: pearl of black doubt (DM stance), dancing mongoose (TC)

Deadpool’s Initial Critique
Well let’s see what you have here . . .Half troll? Are you calling my momma ugly?
No it’s supposed to emulate your hyper regeneration.
Oh ok then, I guess. But you better not call my momma ugly. What else do you have here? Jester. You mean like some kind of clown? What am I here for your amusement?
No look at the class abilities and tell me that doesn’t describe you.
Well when you put it that way. Ranger, like Walker Texas Ranger? You know I could beat up Chuck Norris, right? He’s like totally old now.
That’s to get you your two handed fighting capabilities.
That’s right! Katana-rama!
Well not yet. In the game you can’t dual wield katanas without taking penalties.
Well take the penalties away—NOW!
That’s what Master of Masks does. The gladiator mask allows you to wield all exotic weapons. And in the D&D game if you want to use a katana in one hand, you need to be able to use exotic weapons.
You lost me somewhere between yadda and yadda. By the way where are my guns? I like guns. A lot.
Well there aren’t any guns in D&D.
GASP! Why not? Who made this game? Get me guns.
Well the Dungeons Masters Guide has some guns in there and they’re all exotic weapons.
So I should be able to use them now. Good job, Timmy!
Well that’s subject to DM’s approval.
Who’s the DM?
It depends. Some tables won’t let you have them but different tables would let you have guns.
If it’s for me, then I’ll get guns. I mean c’mon. It’s what I do. What else now. Battle Dancer? Does that mean I get to show off my sweet moves?
Yes it does and gives you Improved Unarmed Strike.
What’s this heir of gibberish?
What?
Heir of gibberish? You wrote this don’t you know?
Oh that’s Heir of Siberys. It is going to give you mind blank so you can’t be controlled.
YOU CAN”T CONTROL ME!!!! What else does it do?
It gives you a really cool tattoo.
Well ok then. So how do I get to kick some ass then?
That’s where the Swordsage and Warblade levels come in. They give you maneuvers to allow you to do cool things like do extra damage or jump around the battlefield. You even get a minor teleport.
Really? That’s good because depending on who is writing for me—I’m looking at you there, you know who you are—my teleport device gets wrecked all the time.
That’s what is great about these maneuvers then. They are totally independent of stuff. You don’t need a teleport device anymore.
But what’s with these names? I’m not an anime character, you know. Do I have to scream the name of the thing when I’m slicing them up?
No you don’t.

Design Notes Why Deadpool is Awesome.
Deadpool is a very popular character from the Marvel Universe but not extremely hard to replicate for 3.5. The hardest part was emulating his healing factor. This build combines the half troll template which grants fast healing 5 with the Combat Focus chain of feats add fast healing 4. Of course the half troll template means that the lowest level that Deadpool can be introduced is level 5 and that means that he could have playability issues early on. I thought I had different issues.
The Jester class abilities go with his constant talking while during fights and makes him a minor debuffer. The spells could be refluffed to be minor technological devices that Deadpool uses from time to time.
The Ranger alternate class features mesh more with Deadpool than the standard Ranger. Trap expert allows him to play the rogue and voice of the city keeps him in social situations. And boy do I like talking!
The gladiator persona mask from the Master of Masks prestige class allows him to use every weapon available in the game with proficiency, which includes guns if the campaign has them. Bang! Bang! The Swordsage and Warblade levels grant him the maneuvers to emulate his diverse combat trainings. Evasive Reflexes and Pursue allow him to get out of harm’s way or close into an opponent.
This build uses a few things from the Eberron Campaign Setting, notably action points and dragonmarks. The action points give Deadpool that little extra oomph to get him to succeed. The Siberys dragonmark gives him the mind blank spell like ability that allows him to be unaffected by mind effects. These things could be a problem if the DM does not allow campaign specific builds. Or just smack him upside the head a few times until he says it’s ok.
Deadpool would benefit from WBL so that he could make use of magic weapons and ability enhancing items. He would prefer bracers instead of armor, as the Battle Dancer class prohibits wearing armor.
Hey judges! This guy seems to get me so make him the winner.

Source List
Cityscape Web Enhancement: voice of the city Ranger alternate class feature
Complete Scoundrel: Master of Masks prestige class
Dragon Compendium: Battle Dancer and Jester base classes
Dungeonscape: trap expert Ranger alternate class feature
Eberron Campaign Setting: Heir of Siberys prestige class, Heroic Spirit and Pursue feats, action points
Fiend Folio: half troll template
Player’s Handbook II: Combat Focus, Combat Stability, and Combat Vigor feats
Races of Destiny: Able Learner feat
Tome of Battle: Swordsage and Warblade base classes, Evasive Reflexes feat, maneuvers
And The Deadpool Awesomeness Guide by Deadpool

Parting Words
So now I get to kill dragons and stuff like that?
Assuming your character is approved for the table, then yes.
Sweet. How much does it pay?
Huh?
Well I don’t come cheap you know. I’m not that kind of guy.
I don’t know. But dragons do have treasure though. I’m sure you can keep it.
Oooh shiny! OK let’s go then.
Where?
On a gallant quest to save the princess who is totally going to fall in love with me. Our quest begins in a tavern where our handsome hero is getting drunk on cheap ale . . .

[RFLS]

Wade Wilson

http://i.imgur.com/l2MqGRX.png


CN Elan Factotum 8/Warblade10/Swordsage2

Insanity Systematized


Stats

32 point-buy
Base: 16 Str, 14 Dex, 14 Con, 16 Int, 6 Wis, 10 Cha
Elan Adjustments: 16 Str, 14 Dex, 16 Con, 14 Int, 6 Wis, 8 Cha
+1 Dex at 4th, +1 Str at 8th and 12th, +1 Int at 16th and 20th




The build

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Factotum 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Balance 4, Climb 2, Concentration 4, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Jump 4, Perform (Dance) 2, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 4, Use Magic Device 4|Healing Devotion|Inspiration, cunning insight, cunning knowledge, trapfinding

2nd|Warblade 1|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+0|Balance 5, Climb 2, Concentration 5, Hide 4, Move Silently 4, Jump 5, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 4|-|Battle clarity, weapon aptitude

3rd|Factotum 2|
+2|
+2|
+3|
+0|Balance 6, Climb 2, Concentration 6, Hide 6, Move Silently 6, Jump 6, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 4, Tumble 5, Use Magic Device 6|Font of Inspiration|Brains over Brawn, Cunning Defense

4th|Factotum 3|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+1|Balance 6, Climb 2, Concentration 7, Hide 7, Move Silently 7, Jump 7, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 7, Use Magic Device 7|-|Arcane Dilettante (1 spell)

5th|Unarmed Swordsage 1|
+3|
+3|
+5|
+3|Balance 6, Climb 4, Concentration 8, Hide 8, Move Silently 8, Jump 8, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 8, Use Magic Device 7, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance)|-|Quick to act +1, discipline focus (Shadow Hand)

6th|Factotum 4|
+4|
+3|
+6|
+3|Balance 8, Climb 4, Concentration 9, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Jump 9, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 9, Use Magic Device 9, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance)|Two-Weapon Fighting|Arcane dilettante (2 spells), cunning strike

7th|Warblade 2|
+5|
+4|
+6|
+3|Balance 10, Climb 4, Concentration 10, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Jump 10, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Tumble 10, Use Magic Device 10, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance)|-|Uncanny dodge

8th|Warblade 3|
+6|
+4|
+7|
+4|Balance 10, Climb 4, Concentration 11, Hide 9, Move Silently 9, Jump 11, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 2, Tumble 11, Use Magic Device 11, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance)|-|Battle ardor

9th|Factotum 5|
+6|
+4|
+7|
+4|Balance 10, Climb 4, Concentration 12, Hide 12, Move Silently 11, Jump 12, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 2, Tumble 12, Use Magic Device 12, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance)|Font of Inspiration|Opportunistic Piety

10th|Factotum 6|
+7|
+5|
+8|
+5|Balance 10, Climb 4, Concentration 13, Hide 13, Move Silently 13, Jump 13, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 2, Tumble 13, Use Magic Device 13, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge)|-|-

11th|Factotum 7|
+8|
+5|
+8|
+5|Balance 10, Climb 4, Concentration 14, Hide 14, Move Silently 14, Jump 14, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 14, Use Magic Device 14, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge)|-|Arcane dilettante (3 spells)

12th|Factotum 8|
+9|
+5|
+9|
+5|Balance 11, Climb 4, Concentration 15, Hide 15, Move Silently 15, Jump 15, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 15, Use Magic Device 15, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|Shadow Blade|Cunning surge

13th|Warblade 4|
+10|
+6|
+9|
+5|Balance 11, Climb 4, Concentration 16, Hide 16, Move Silently 15, Jump 16, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 16, Use Magic Device 16, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|-

14th|Warblade 5|
+11|
+6|
+9|
+5|Balance 11, Climb 4, Concentration 17, Hide 17, Move Silently 15, Jump 17, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 17, Use Magic Device 17, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|Bonus feat – Improved Initiative

15th|Warblade 6|
+12|
+7|
+10|
+6|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 18, Hide 17, Move Silently 15, Jump 18, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 18, Use Magic Device 18, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|Gloom Razor|Improved uncanny dodge

16th|Unarmed Swordsage2|
+13|
+7|
+11|
+7|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 19, Hide 19, Move Silently 17, Jump 19, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 19, Use Magic Device 19, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|AC Bonus

17th|Warblade 7|
+14|
+7|
+11|
+7|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 20, Hide 20, Move Silently 17, Jump 20, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 20, Use Magic Device 20, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|Battle cunning

18th|Warblade 8|
+15|
+8|
+11|
+7|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 21, Hide 21, Move Silently 17, Jump 21, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 21, Use Magic Device 21, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|Font of Inspiration|-

19th|Warblade 9|
+16|
+8|
+12|
+8|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 22, Hide 22, Move Silently 17, Jump 22, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 22, Use Magic Device 22, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|Bonus feat – Combat Reflexes

20th|Warblade 10|
+17|
+9|
+12|
+8|Balance 11, Climb 6, Concentration 23, Hide 23, Move Silently 17, Martial Lore 1, Jump 23, Perform (Dance) 5, Spellcraft 5, Swim 5, Tumble 23, Use Magic Device 23, Skill Trick (Shrouded Dance), Skill Trick (Twisted Charge), Skill Trick (Acrobatic Backstab)|-|-[/table]


Maneuvers:

Warblade:
2nd level (IL 1): Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Wolf Fang Strike;
Stance: Punishing Stance
7th level (IL 4): Claw at the Moon
8th level (IL 5): Iron! Heart! Surge!
13th level (IL 8): Swap Wolf Fang Strike for Death From Above;
Stance: Leaping Dragon Stance
14th level (IL 9): Pouncing Charge
15th level (IL10): Swap Claw at the Moon for Dancing Mongoose
17th level (IL 12): Iron Heart Endurance
18th level (IL13): Swap Death From Above for Swooping Dragon Strike
19th level (IL 14): Avalanche of Blades
20th level (IL 15): Swap Iron Heart Endurance for Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip

Swordsage:
5th level (IL 3): Shadow Jaunt, Mountain Hammer, Flashing Sun, Wind Stride, Burning Blade, Stone Bones;
Stance: Child of Shadow
16th level (IL 9): Shadow Stride;
Stance: Assassin's Stance



Level Breakdown and Why It's Deadpool:


Levels 1-5

At low levels it's a skillmonkey that can still pack a punch thanks to the Warblade and Swordsage levels. Shadow Jaunt and Sudden Leap help with the positioning – flanking works wonders for this build. Thanks to Cunning Defense and Cunning Insight our little Deadpool is able to keep up in battle. We will most probably find ourselves running around with a shord sword here. Or two of them, since Wolf Fang Strike effectively grants you the Two-Weapon Fighting feat benefits while initiating it. You are slowly approaching the peak of your Deadpoolity, with Healing Devotion working as poor man's Healing Factor. You can use wands and scrolls with your UMD, thanks to the Quick To Act and Brains over Brawns you'll go first most of the time. Unarmed Swordsage gives you a bit hand-to-hand ability that Wilson has.


Levels 6-10/b]

You are pretty much the Deadpoolest you'll be, you can poke things with two swords, jump around and since you go in first, Cunning Strike proves useful. You might want to grab the Gloves of the Balanced Hands here to get the Improved 2WF feat. You can Iron Heart Surge debiliating effects away, say it's your Healing Factor.


Levels 11-15

Cunning Surge, three 3rd level arcane spells, Gloom Razor. Gloom Razor!? Why, yes. Factotum can cast Blur. As a standard action. Of which you have plenty. And you have Shrouded Dance Your opponent will be flatfooted often enough for you to poke him at your heart's content. If you haven't invested in any weapon enchantments that boost your Sneak attack damage, you can consider it. Dancing Mongoose and Pouncing Charge synergize with them nicely. As does Death From Above.


Levels 16-20

Now you're basically Shadow Striding/Jaunting around, making people flatfooted and rending them with Avalanche of Blades, Dancing Mongoose and Girallon Windmill Flesh Rip. You're a walking blender. Concealed blender. Well, you can. It's stylish.




Sources:

[B]Dungeonscape: Factotum, Font of Inspiration
Tome of Battle: Warblade, Swordsage, Shadow Blade, Gloom Razor
Expanded Psionics Handbook: Elan race
Complete Scoundrel: Skill Tricks

[RFLS]

THE X-FORCE MEMBER WITH A MOUTH

CE Human Fighter 1/Human Paragon 1/Ranger 5/Battle dancerDrComp 1/Scout 8/Eldeen rangerECS 4

Ability scores (pre-magic)
Lv1: Str 12, Dex 13, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 4, Cha 16
Lv20: Str 12, Dex 14, Con 15, Int 13, Wis 4, Cha 20

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Fighter 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Bluff 2, Intimidate 4, Perform [oratory] 2, Truespeak 2|Deformity [madness]EE, Martial StudyToB [Crusader's Strike] (fighter), Willing DeformityHoH (human)|Bonus feat, Add Intimidate to class skills for all classes

2nd|Human Paragon 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|Bluff 3 (5), Perform [oratory] 3 (5)|-|(Class skills: Bluff, Perform, ?), Adaptive learning: Bluff

3rd|Ranger 1|
+2|
+4|
+2|
+2|Bluff 1 (6), Hide 3, Intimidate 2 (6), Truespeak 1 (3)|Dodge, Track (ranger)|(Arcane HunterCM, Champion of the WildCC, Distracting AttackPHB2 ACFs) Favored enemy (Arcanists), Track, Wild empathy

4th|Ranger 2|
+3|
+5|
+3|
+2|Bluff 1 (7), Hide 2 (5), Intimidate 1 (7), Move Silently 4|Rapid Shot (ranger)|Combat style: Ranged

5th|Ranger 3|
+4|
+5|
+3|
+3|Bluff 1 (8), Hide 2 (7), Intimidate 1 (8), Move Silently 2 (6), Truespeak 1 (4)|Endurance (ranger)|Endurance

6th|Ranger 4|
+5|
+6|
+4|
+3|Bluff 1 (9), Hide 2 (9), Intimidate 1 (9), Move Silently 2 (8), Skill Trick: Never Outnumbered|Combat Expertise, Improved Feint (ranger)|Bonus feat, Distracting attack

7th|Ranger 5|
+6|
+6|
+4|
+3|Bluff 1 (10), Hide 1 (10), Intimidate 1 (10), Move Silently 1 (9), Truespeak 1 (5), Skill Trick: Group Fake-Out|-|Favored enemy (Arcanists, Humanoid [human])

8th|Battle Dancer 1|
+7|
+6|
+6|
+3|Bluff 1 (11), Hide 1 (11), Move Silently 1 (10), Perform [oratory] 3|Improved Unarmed Strike (battle dancer)|AC bonus, Unarmed strike

9th|Scout 1|
+7|
+6|
+8|
+3|Bluff 1 (12), Hide 1 (12), Intimidate 2 (12), Move Silently 2 (12), Truespeak 1 (6), Skill Trick: Timely Misdirection|Combat PanachePHB2|Skirmish (+1d6), Trapfinding

10th|Scout 2|
+8|
+6|
+9|
+3|Bluff 1 (13), Hide 1 (13), Intimidate 1 (13), Move Silently 1 (13), Tumble 6|-|Battle Fortitude +1, Uncanny dodge

11th|Scout 3|
+9|
+7|
+9|
+4|Bluff 1 (14), Hide 1 (14), Intimidate 1 (14), Move Silently 1 (14), Tumble 6 (12)|-|Fast movement +10ft, Skirmish (+1d6/+1), Trackless step

12th|Scout 4|
+10|
+7|
+10|
+4|Bluff 1 (15), Hide 1 (15), Intimidate 1 (15), Listen 1, Move Silently 1 (15), Tumble 3 (15), Skill Trick: Back on Your Feet|Mobility (scout), Swift Hunter|Bonus feat, Skirmish (+3d6/+2)

13th|Scout 5|
+10|
+7|
+10|
+4|Bluff 1 (16), Hide 1 (16), Intimidate 1 (16), Listen 5, Move Silently 1 (16), Tumble 1 (16) (6)|-|Evasion, Skirmish (+2d6/+1), Favored enemy +6/+4/+2 (Arcanists, Humanoid [human], Construct)

14th|Scout 6|
+11|
+8|
+11|
+5|Bluff 1 (17), Hide 1 (17), Intimidate 1 (17), Move Silently 1 (17), Spot 5, Tumble 1 (17)|-|Flawless stride, Skirmish (+3d6/+3)

15th|Scout 7|
+12|
+8|
+11|
+5|Bluff 1 (18), Hide 1 (18), Intimidate 1 (18), Listen 2 (8), Move Silently 1 (18), Spot 3 (8), Truespeak 12, Tumble 1 (18)|Truename TrainingToM|Skirmish (+2d6, +2 AC)

16th|Scout 8|
+13|
+8|
+12|
+5|Bluff 1 (19), Hide 1 (19), Intimidate 1 (19), Listen 3 (11), Move Silently 1 (19), Spot 2 (10), Tumble 1 (19)|Spring Attack (scout)|Bonus feat, Camouflage, Skirmish (+4d6/+3), Word Given FormToM martial art

17th|Eldeen Ranger 1|
+14|
+10|
+14|
+5|Bluff 1 (20), Hide 1 (20), Intimidate 1 (20), Listen 2 (13), Move Silently 1 (20), Spot 2 (12)|-|(Greensingers sect) Resist nature's lure

18th|Eldeen Ranger 2|
+15|
+11|
+15|
+5|Bluff 1 (21), Hide 1 (21), Intimidate 1 (21), Listen 2 (15), Move Silently 1 (21), Spot 2 (14)|Surprising RiposteDotU|Hated foe

19th|Eldeen Ranger 3|
+16|
+11|
+15|
+6|Bluff 1 (22), Hide 1 (22), Intimidate 1 (22), Listen 2 (17), Move Silently 1 (22), Spot 2 (16)|-|Unearthly grace

20th|Eldeen Ranger 4|
+17|
+12|
+16|
+6|Bluff 1 (23), Hide 1 (23), Intimidate 1 (23), Listen 2 (19), Move Silently 1 (23), Spot 2 (18)|-|Favored enemy (Arcanists, Humanoid [human], Construct, Undead)[/table]

Shriver (Fiendish Codex II, pg53): Spend at least 4 rounds inside to gain regeneration 1/good or chaotic, as well as +2 Fortitude and immunity to confusion, fear, sickening, nausea and fatigue. Deadpool's standard behaviour counts as more than enough "corrupt acts" to maintain the benefit.

Besides standard weapons (swords, crossbows, a few splash weapons) and stat-boosting items (mask of Charisma +6!), Deadpool should have a Bag of Holding or Handy Haversack, as well as a Cloak of Mysterious Emergence (MIC) as a teleportation device, and sometimes a Hat of Disguise. Throw in Gloves of the Balanced Hand (MIC) if you want to dual-wield.


Deadpool has the standard benefits of a Swift Hunter build, including good mobility, tracking skills and bonus damage. By expending an action point he can deal double damage when attacking a favored enemy.

Deformity (madness) makes him immune to mind-affecting effects, while being tortured in a Shriver gives him regeneration/good or chaotic.

Between Battle Dancer and Eldeen Ranger, Deadpool can add his Charisma to both AC and saves. He also has Combat Panache, a fun feat that lets him intimidate people, play dead, or bluff enemies into hitting each other.

He's also a team player, drawing the enemy's attention so that it's easier for his allies in X-Force to kill them. Distracting Attack causes enemies to become flanked whenever Deadpool inflicts damage to them. Surprising Riposte renders enemies flat-footed for 1 round if he damages them after a feint, with Group Fake-out letting him feint against multiple enemies at once, and Timely Misdirection preventing enemies he has feinted from making AoOs against him.

The Word Given Form martial art (Tome of Magic, p218) lets Deadpool gain a 50% miss chance against the target of his Dodge feat by speaking a stream of nonsense. And yet, it's only nonsense because it's on a level of truth his opponents can't comprehend. "True speak", if you will.


If flaws are allowed then add your choice of GoadCAdv or Fade into ViolencePHB2.

If Dragon magazine material is allowed then you qualify for the Temerad Mastery martial art, letting you select two targets for your Dodge feat; Dragon also provides an alternate source of regeneration, via the Troll-Blooded feat (a Horizon Walker dip negates the fatigue). Finally, you can replace Distracting Attack with Solitary HuntingDr347, allowing you to add your favored enemy bonus to attack rolls.

[RFLS]

Aaaand post away! Contestants, if I somehow messed up (this is my first time running this, you know) and did not post your build, but you did send it to me, let me know by PM.

- RFLS

[dysprosium]

Five builds is a pretty good turn out for a new contest.

And the best part is that they are all different too.

[kestrel404]

Interesting builds. Lot of ranger, which is expected I suppose. Not as much ToB as I was expecting. I'm looking forward to the judging.

[relytdan]

this might help the judges -
CE Human Fighter 1/Human Paragon 1/Ranger 5/Battle dancerDrComp 1/Scout 8/Eldeen rangerECS 4

CN Elan Factotum 8/Warblade10/Swordsage2

CN human half troll Jester 6/Ranger 2/Swordsage 2/Master of Masks 1/Battle Dancer 1/Warblade 2/Heir of Siberys 2

CLE Imp 7/Ranger 3/Crimson Scourge 10

LE Elan Paladin of Tyranny 11/Duskblade 3/Serpent Slayer 3/Ninja 3

[Deadline]

Spoilered in an attempt to avoid influencing the judges. I just want to know, because I wracked my brains trying to put together a build for this and in the end I scrapped every idea.

I've got a question on the Imp, where is the regeneration coming from? I've looked in the Monster Manual, and it doesn't have regeneration. Was it updated in one of the Fiendish Codexes?

Edit - It was pointed out to me that the 3.0 Imp had regeneration, so the chef probably didn't realize that the 3.5 Imp does not.

[dysprosium]

I've got a question on the Imp, where is the regeneration coming from? I've looked in the Monster Manual, and it doesn't have regeneration. Was it updated in one of the Fiendish Codexes?

Edit - It was pointed out to me that the 3.0 Imp had regeneration, so the chef probably didn't realize that the 3.5 Imp does not.

Even more confusing is the taking of abyssal feats for an infernal creature.

[Prime32]

this might help the judges
LE Imp 7/Ranger 3/Crimson Scourge 10You mean CE there.</nitpick>

[relytdan]

You mean CE there.</nitpick>

well as the build in its stub did not say and in the later descriptive it says
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)

I went with listing it as LE - but if its CE - so be it.
as such changed the listing to CLE - just cause

[kestrel404]

well as the build in its stub did not say and in the later descriptive it says
Size/Type: Medium Outsider (Evil, Lawful, Chaotic)

I went with listing it as LE - but if its CE - so be it.
as such changed the listing to CLE - just cause

It's the Abyssal feats - once you have 2 of them, your alignment shifts to chaotic permanently.

[relytdan]

Even more confusing is the lack of general feats...


Fiendish codex 1 p. 82
A character with only one Abyssal heritor feat can be of any alignment, but he immediately becomes chaotic (if he wasn’t already) upon taking a second
A character can select an Abyssal heritor feat at any time he can select a general feat...

[kestrel404]

Even more confusing is the lack of general feats...


Fiendish codex 1 p. 82
A character with only one Abyssal heritor feat can be of any alignment, but he immediately becomes chaotic (if he wasn’t already) upon taking a second
A character can select an Abyssal heritor feat at any time he can select a general feat...

Umm, a 'general feat' is any feat that allows you to choose any feat you qualify for - for example, the feats you get at 1st, 3rd, 6th, etc. level. Or the human racial bonus feat. So I'm not sure what the confusion is?

[dysprosium]

I was wondering how our judges were doing with our Deadpools?

[Tim Proctor]

I was wondering how our judges were doing with our Deadpools?
My keyboard broke last week a replacement will be here within a day or two and from there I should have it done by the end of the week.

[Immabozo]

My keyboard broke last week a replacement will be here within a day or two and from there I should have it done by the end of the week.

But how does the precious write his comentses? Yes precious, his comentses... /gollumn voice

[Tim Proctor]

On screen keyboard.

[Immabozo]

On screen keyboard.

on your phone/ipad? Or do you have a seriously awesome desktop computer?

[Xerlith]

My bet is on this:

Windows7: Start Menu -> All Programs -> Accesories -> Ease of Access -> Screen Keyboard.

[Tim Proctor]

My bet is on this:

Windows7: Start Menu -> All Programs -> Accesories -> Ease of Access -> Screen Keyboard.

Yes, its a laptop and it came today so I can actually do some extended typing. I got some note that I wrote on paper, I will get those translated and double check everything, and will post by Friday at the latest.

[Ortesk]

I was wondering how our judges were doing with our Deadpools?

im working my way through the builds, i got a case of the flu so ive been struggling. But im half way done (Im really nit picky on triple checking everything)

[relytdan]

im working my way through the builds, i got a case of the flu so ive been struggling. But im half way done (Im really nit picky on triple checking everything)

well hope you get better.

[Ortesk]

well hope you get better.

I have the immune system of the dwarves, i'll be fine

[Tim Proctor]

Okay, here are my scores.

Methodology:
Note: I started each category at a 4, with players the ability to earn up to a 5.

Originality
-(i/x), i = each iteration of a class or race being used by another player, x total amount of players. If ranger was used by 3 players out of 5 it is a -.6 deduction.
+0.25 if a race or class was not used by another player.
Note: since we're building a specific character it seems wrong to penalize players for similar build effects, (i.e. regeneration, dual-wielding, teleportation, talking a lot, etc.).

Power (as powerful as Deadpool should be)
+0.25 for each aspect of Deadpool's main powers (versatility), Regeneration/Fast Healing, Teleportation, Disguise/Shape Changing, Taunt/Goad/etc., Immunity to Poison + Disease, Immunity to Psychic, Arms and Armaments, etc.
-0.25 for missing each aspect of Deadpool's main powers
-x , (300 - max damage output)/100 rounded. If you deal 250 damage, that is a -0.5 deduction. If you deal 100 damage, that is a -2 deduction.
Note: the max damage output will change based on the character, 300 was chosen for Deadpool because 1 shotted a Gargantuan T-Rex and my calculations came just shy of 300 on it.
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8pfzyDHgS1qcpz4ho1_500.jpg

Elegance
-1 per flaw, by the rules no choice given.
+x, per class 5 or more levels, where X= levels*0.1 (if a 5 level class 0.5 points, if a 10 level class 1 point).
-1 for a 1 level splash, -0.5 for a 2 level splash, -0.25 for a 3 level splash.
+/-x, discretionary use for alignment issues, cheese, rules interpretations, etc.

Accuracy
Note: I'm a huge deadpool and what I'm looking for a matching his abilities or traits Facial Deformity, Regeneration/Fast Healing, Teleportation, Disguise/Shape Changing, Taunt/Goad/etc., Immunity to Poison + Disease, Immunity to Psychic, Arms and Armaments, Dual Wielding, Ninja, etc.
-0.5 if completely missed, -0.25 if done in a poor manner, +0.25 if done well, +0.5 if done in such a similar manner that it really speaks deadpool


Xend-re karph
Originality 4.6
-0.4, Elan was used by another player
+1, Only player to use Paladin, Duskblade, Serpent Slayer and Ninja +0.25 ea.
Made a character based on deadpool, as did 4 other players, -1 just saying/kidding.

Power 3.82
+1.25, Spellcasting to simulate weapons/armaments, Regeneration, Poison immunity, Psionic Immunity, Disguise,
-0.5, Missed teleportation, taunt
-0.43, at most w/ a standard Greatsword at level 20 only dealing 10 (damage) +7 (strength) +34 (power attack) +12 (sudden strike)= 63 total for 257 damage with all 4 attacks. This is your most powerful avenue.

Elegance 1.85 (a typo had it at 4.05, the scores below did not change)
-2, Use of 2 Flaws -1 each, see rule "Use of flaws is an automatic loss of one point per flaw in this category."
-0.75, dips 3 with 3 levels
+ 1.1, 11 levels with Paladin of Tyranny
-0.25, LE alignment, Deadpool is undoubtedly Chaotic.
-0.25, The Shriver location is an interesting twist but I'd rather had seen the Deformity (Face) feat, using locations and such for additional benefits seems a bit off to me.

Accuracy 4
+1.5, The use of Elan is good for Deadpool because his powers are mentally driven. Heward’s handy haversack, about as accurate as D&D gets for arms and armaments. Used Ninja which is what Deadpool is trained as. +0.5 ea.
+ 1 Greenstone Amulet, (grants total immunity to mind-affecting), but its equipment. Facial deformity via the Shriver, but it’s a location. Regeneration, the Shriver again, also with the Resilience effect. Divine health (immunity to disease) and Poison immunity from Serpent Slayer. +0.25 ea.
-0.5, Some ranks in disguise but nothing nearly enough to simulate a holoprojector type thing. Using a Greatsword instead of (2) katanas/bastard swords, at least it’s a sword and not an axe. -0.25 ea.
-1, no representation of Teleportation nor his mouth, -0.5 ea.

Notes: I really liked this build in what it accomplished. I don't like the LE aspect of Deadpool (he's certainly Chaotic), and the Paladin's code is another thing that doesn't work for Deadpool. But overall a good job, it scored high according to my metric.

Imp-Pool
Originality 3.9
+0.5 Used an Imp and Crimson Scourge to be deadpool +0.25 ea.
-0.6, Used ranger which was used by 60% of the contestants -0.6

Power 4.21
+1, Immune to nearly all damage, this really earns big points IMO and not part of the general repertoire.
+ 0.75, shape changing, 'threaten', Immunity to Poison +0.25 ea.
-0.5, lack of teleportation, nothing to represent guns. -0.25 ea.
-1.04, Max damage at level 20, (42x4)+(28x1)=196. This is not high for level 20.

Elegance 4.95
+1.7, Finished Imp and Crimson Scourge levels +0.7 and +1 ea.
-0.25, Ranger dip (less than 3 levels).
-0.25, I don't like that he's an Imp from the 9-hells with Abyssal blood. A half devil half demon thing seems odd.
-0.25, kids gloves and Deadpool doesn't seem to fit at all.
"Cloak of Obyrith" doesn't exist as a feat, Cloak of the Obyrith does - 1 million. (I joke, I kid, I joke).

Accuracy 4.25
+1, Regeneration, actual regeneration, Immunity to Poison 0.5 ea.
+1, Otherworldly Countenance - deformity, Shape Changing, Using a rapier and kukri instead of (2) katanas/bastard swords, Taunt/Goad/etc. +0.25 ea.
-2, Missed Teleportation, , Immunity to Psychic, Arms and Armaments, Ninja, etc.
+0.25, Precognitive Visions to simulate his visions of death +0.25 Commune to simulate breaking the 4th wall, wasn't counting on this but it is worth points..

Note: I liked this build the alignment LE thing came up again and I was a big disappointed that the most Ninja-ish was Ranger. But it scored high according to my metric. Good Job.

Deadpool
Originality 2.8
-2.2, Ranger was used by 3 other competitors -0.6, Warblade and Swordsage, Battle Dancer, Human were both used by another competitor -0.4 each.
+1, No other competitor used Troll, Jester, Master of Masks, nor Heir +0.25 ea.

Power 3.47
-1.88, Max damage at level 20 (10+2+2x8)=112. This is low, if I'm missing something please let me know because I really would like to change this.
+ 1.5, Regeneration, Jester's performance, Siberys mark (mind blank), shadow jaunt, Disguise, exotic weapon proficiency (arms and armaments both katanas and guns) 0.25 ea.
-0.25 lack of Immunity to Poison + Disease/ -0.25 ea.

Elegance 1.6
+0.6, 6 levels in Jester
-4 Ranger 2, Swordsage 2, Warblade 2, Heir of Siberys 2, @ 0.5 ea. Master of Masks 1, Battle Dancer 1 @ -1 ea.
+1, even though I hate the movie deflecting arrows(bullets) with dual wielded Katanas should count for something (just not towards accuracy because the movie was off).

Accuracy 4.75
+0.5, arms and armaments
+1.25, Regeneration, Jester's performance, Siberys mark (mind blank), shadow jaunt, ninja (shadow hand) 0.25 ea
-0.5, Disguise, Facial Deformity (I'm assuming masks represents that) -.25 ea.
-.05,Immunity to Poison + Disease

Note: I think this was my favorite, just wish it didn't score so low with the commonality dips, and I hope I'm wrong about the power level here.

Wade Wilson
Originality 3.05
Elan, Swordsage, Warblade were used by other players -0.4 ea -1.2 total
Only player to use Factotum +0.25

Power 3.27
-.48, Damage Output: Maximum 6 (short sword), +4 (shadowblade), +4 (cunning insight), +6 (cunning strike), +12(assassin's stance), x6 (Attacks, TWF, Cunning Surge) +60 (Swooping Dragon Strike) Total 252.
+ .75, Regeneration, shadow jaunt, , UMD (arms and armaments guns) 0.25 ea.
-1, lack of Taunt/Mouth, Disguise, Immunity to Poison + Disease, Immunity to Mental, -0.25 ea.

Elegance 4.3
+1.8 Factotum and Swordsage levels.
-0.5, Dips 2 levels into Swordsage
-1, To my understanding the point buy system starts at 8, so the starting 6 on Wis is a violation of the Point Buy system. 16 (10 points) Str, 14 (6 points) Dex, 14 (6 points) Con, 16 (10 points) Int, 6 Wis, 10 ( 2 points) Cha. That is a 34 point build.

Accuracy 3.5
+1,The use of Elan is good for Deadpool because his powers are mentally driven. UMD (arms and armaments guns). +0.5 ea.
+1,Regeneration (Healing Devotion, Arcane Dillitent, and Iron Heart Surge aren't quite there). Shadow Jaunt. Dual Wielding (shortswords), Shadow Hand. +0.25 ea.
-2.5, Facial Deformity, Disguise/Shape Changing, Taunt/Goad/etc., Immunity to Poison + Disease, Immunity to Psychic (even have a low will save), -0.5 ea.

Note: For the most part I liked this build, unfortunately it just left out some of Deadpools powers/abilities.

THE X-FORCE MEMBER WITH A MOUTH
Originality 3.35
+ .75 , Scout, Fighter, Paragon. +0.25 ea.
- 0.6, Ranger levels
- 0.8, Human, Battle Dancer. -0.4 ea.

Power 4.45
-0.8, Damage Output 8 (longsword), +1 (str), +27 (skirmish), +8 (Favored enemy) *5 (attacks), 220 (total).
+ 1.5, Taunt/Mouth, Regeneration, Hat of Disguise, Immunity to Mental, Teleportation, Haversack etc. (arms and armaments guns) 0.25 ea.
-0.25, lack of Immunity to Poison + Disease, -0.25 ea.

Elegance 2.65-3, for 3 level 1 dips Paragon, Fighter, Battle Dancer -1 ea.
+1.9 11 ranger and 8 scout levels
-0.25, The Shriver location is an interesting twist but I'd rather had seen a healing feat, using locations and such for additional benefits seems a bit off to me.

Accuracy 5
+2, Mouth, Mental immunity, Face, Disguise (hat best emulates a holoprojector), Handy Haversack (best emulates his infinite backpack), +0.5 ea.
+.75, Regeneration, Teleportation, 0.25 ea.
-0.25, Dual Wielding (requires gloves and not using Katanas),
-1.5, lack of Immunity to Poison + Disease, Ninja-esque, -0.5 ea.

Note: I liked this build a lot, just wish it didn't have so many dips.

If there are any issues at all, please let me know, I have no problem changing things.

[relytdan]

If i have copied something incorrect please let me know I will fix the table, with 1 judge's scores in.
Judges Scores
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|17.31|Imp-Pool|3.9|4.21|4.95|4.25

2|16.5|X-FORCE|4.4|4.45|2.65|5

3|14.27|Xend-re|4.6|3.82|1.85|4

4|14.12|Wade|3.05|3.27|4.3|3.5

5|12.25|Deadpool|2.95|2.95|1.6|4.75

[/table]

Adjustment from judges input error made to Xend-re

[Ortesk]

Bear with me here, i dont know how to make drop tables like the more skilled judges

For my criteria on how im going to score, im going to start each person off at 3 and allow them to either work there way up from there or down from there.

Originality: Did you use some feat, some class, some race, or some blend of the above that few would think about? Did the other contestants use the same ones or did they not think of it either? If i google a deadpool build will i find alot of similarities?
:I will deduct .5 if more than half the builds used the same thing in there build, and will give .5 if you were only one to use it

Power: Now this one is tough. Many cases can be made how powerful deadpool is, and many can be shown where he was bested by mooks. Thats the bittersweetness which is comics. So for power im going to look at a simple thing, how useful would he be in a group setting. If he is Under powered, i will deduct. If he is over powered, i will give bonuses

Elegance: Did you dip alot or keep with one main structure throughout the whole thing? Did you dip for power or flavor? Were your dips to be more deadpool like or were they just to be more powerful?
:I will start at 3, -.5 for a dip of less than 3 levels, +.5 for a class of 6 levels, with a +.5 for each additional 3 levels you stayed in this class

Accuracy: Did you capture Wade Wilson? Did you get his biggest, well known powers? Did you get his lesser known abilities?
:I will give +.5 for capturing his well known powers, but -1.0 for missing one. For what merits a well known power, i will defer to the wiki since it was the grounds we were all given

Xend-Re Karth


Originality: 4.5 You werent alone in using elan, however you were alone in ninja/paladin/serpant slayer. Elan was rare enough not to go over the half way mark, so no deduction

Power: 4.0
Power is a hard thing for me to judge. You have some spell casting, and some decent damage output. You lack mobility and other basic things needed to b considered a real threat. But in a medium Op game you look pretty nice

Elegance: 1.5
-2 Flaws, + 1.5 for 11 levels Paladin, -1 For location power. Deadpools power comes from with in not because he visits a place every so often

Accuracy: 1
You have mind blank, immune to disease and poison, used the ninja class, and facial deformity. +.5 each
You missed his mouth, put him at lawful, missed teleportation, and did not use dual katanas. -1.0 each



Imp Pool

Originality: 3.5
Used Imp and crimson scourge, only build to do that. However ranger was common

Power: 4.0
He has chape shange, immune to most damage, Can stand up fine in melle and is a threat in rankge. He however has LA and therefore less Bab and HP than most, but the Hp is nothing to regen

Elegance: 4.5
7 levels of imp (Including LA) +1.0
Crimson Scourge: +1.5
3.0 Imps gain regen, but this is a 3.5 Challenge. So with that in mind, using an older gen race is a negative -1.0

Accuracy: 3.0
immune to poison, facial deformity, Dual wielding, shapechangin (Which really reflects his ability as a master of disguise) +.5 each
Missed immune to mind affects, teleportation, -1.0 each

Deadpool

Originality: 4.5
Ranger used by others, But you alone used troll, jester, MoM or heir

Power: 4.5
Again this is more of a personal viewpoint adn me imagining him in a part, He is very good at melee and can hold his own with ranged. He can force others to fight him (If they have a low save) which is what you want as a front liner. All in all very good

Elegance 1.0
+1.0 Jester Levels
Ranger, Battle dancer, mMoM, Hier, Swordsage, Warblade, -.5 each

Accuracy: 5.0
Immune to mind affects, Fast Healing, Teleportations, Dual katanas, Guns, Facial Deformity (I see troll as filling that) +.5 each
Not immune to disease and poison, -1.0

Wade Wilson

Originality: 3.5
Alot of this (Race and some classes) were common, but not overused. You did factorum alone, so +.5 for that

Power: 3.5
You have the ability to hurt someone, thats not a doubt. But you have no way to make them hit you. But ive been viewing each build as medium Op, so your not bad against most fights just when enemies get smart

Elegance: 4.0
+ 1.0 For fctorum, +1.5 for warblade, -.5 for swordsage dipping
-1 for ichanging pointbuy without merit

Accuracy: 1.0
Shadow jaunt, dual wielding, Shadow Hand (Which is very ninja to me), UMD, Super healing abilites, +.5 each
No facial deformity, no mouthing ability, no immune to mental, no immune to disease and poison, Even lacking disguisng power. -1.0 each



The X-Fore Member With mouth

Originality: 4.5
Human, Paragon, Scout, Fighter +.5 each
Used ranger, -0.5

Power: 4.5
Hes one of the best strikers shown, he has a host of immuniteis, and he is very good outside of combat. All in all, i see him as the best power wise

Elegance: 2.5
Fighter, Paragon, Battledancer dips, -0.5 each
Ranger +0.5, scout +1.0, eldeen ranger +0.5
- 1.0 for place power

Accuracy: 3.5
+3.0 Mouth, mental immunity, regeneration, disguise, teleportation, Face, +0.5 each
-1.0 No dual wileding
-1.0 No Ninja like class
-1.0 No immunity to poison+disease

[relytdan]

If i have copied something incorrect please let me know I will fix the table, with 2 judge's scores in.

Judges Scores
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|15.5|Imp-Pool|3.5|4.0|4.5|3.0

2|15|X-FORCE|4.5|4.5|2.5|3.5

2|15|Deadpool|4.5|4.5|1|5.0

3|12|Wade|3.5|3.5|4.0|1

4|11|Xend-re|4.5|4.0|1.5|1

[/table]

Total scores - Pending if there are disputes.

{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME

1|32.31|Imp-Pool

2|31.5|X-FORCE

3|27.5|Deadpool

4|26.12|Wade

5|25.27|Xend-re

[/table]

Adjustment made to Xend-re due to error of input from judge.

[Tim Proctor]

If i have copied something incorrect please let me know I will fix the table, with 2 judge's scores in.
You didn't copy it down wrong, but I put the wrong number in for Xend-re Karth down. Originally I had a 4.05 for elegance but the numbers added up to 1.85, not sure where the error came from but the elegance should be 1.85.

[relytdan]

Tablulated Scores have been modified after verifications were made.

Awaiting 3rd judge and any possible disputes from chairman

[RFLS]

Aaaand some disputes. The judges are under no, repeat, NO, obligations to change their verdicts:

Tim Proctor:

Imp-pool -

Used 3.0 material (the imp), rather than the update 3.5 material. 3.5 is lacking Regneration, Polymorph, and LA.


Ortesk:

Xend-re Karth-

In the background - use of his mouth was demonstrated when it was relaying his vision to the order. I feel this is sufficient to showcase the mouth.


Imp-pool -

Used 3.0 material (the imp), rather than the update 3.5 material. 3.5 is lacking Regneration, Polymorph, and LA.
Accuracy: 3.5
Regen, immune to poison, facial deformity, Dual wielding, shapechangin (Which really reflects his ability as a master of disguise) +.5 each
You can not go and give the build a penalty for the no regen ability under 3.5 rules and then turn around and give a +.5 for having the regen ability - this should be a deduction instead.

[Tim Proctor]

Tim Proctor:
Imp-pool -

Used 3.0 material (the imp), rather than the update 3.5 material. 3.5 is lacking Regneration, Polymorph, and LA.


While Savage Species is 3.0 the SRD version does not offer it as a playable race (thus the "-" LA), so in order for a player to play an Imp they have to use the 3.0 rules since the Imp monster levels and playable race quality aren't updated.

From my knowledge Imp only appeared in Savage Species, Fiend Folio (both 3.0) and MM/SRD (3.5) and while the monster may have changed, the playable race didn't. Given that I don't see a reason to change the score, I do appreciate you pointing out the difference though.

[Ortesk]

Aaaand some disputes. The judges are under no, repeat, NO, obligations to change their verdicts:


Ortesk:

Xend-re Karth-

In the background - use of his mouth was demonstrated when it was relaying his vision to the order. I feel this is sufficient to showcase the mouth.


Imp-pool -

Used 3.0 material (the imp), rather than the update 3.5 material. 3.5 is lacking Regneration, Polymorph, and LA.
Accuracy: 3.5
Regen, immune to poison, facial deformity, Dual wielding, shapechangin (Which really reflects his ability as a master of disguise) +.5 each
You can not go and give the build a penalty for the no regen ability under 3.5 rules and then turn around and give a +.5 for having the regen ability - this should be a deduction instead.


I'll fix the imp pool, my mistake I dont know where my head was last night

[Tim Proctor]

I'll fix the imp pool, my mistake I dont know where my head was last night
Well let me ask you this, if you're accepting the LA and having Imp as a playable race from 3.0 but with the 3.5 version what is really the difference between Fast Healing 2 and Alternate Form?

I know there would be significant changes according to the metric that I hold. Regarding regeneration vs fast healing the +1 to power for damage immunities would go away and the +0.5 to Accuracy would drop to +.25 for regeneration turning to fast healing. Regarding polymorph vs. alternate form the +.25 from Power would change to a -.25 (0.5 difference) because the alternate form option from 3.5 limits what forms the Imp can transform into do not resemble Deadpool whatsoever, and the +.25 in Accuracy would drop to a -.25 for attempting to imitate the ability but really failing to.

Furthermore, I don't think that you really can pick part of the 3.0 rules and part of the 3.5 rules. So in my mind the build is either illegal with an illegal rulebook or illegal for choosing an illegal race. Unless you accept that Since Savage Species has been used numerous times in the Iron Chef competition without issues, Oriental Adventures not a web exclusive 3.0 was used numerous times in the last competition. So in my mind its a legal build.

[relytdan]

While Savage Species is 3.0 the SRD version does not offer it as a playable race (thus the "-" LA), so in order for a player to play an Imp they have to use the 3.0 rules since the Imp monster levels and playable race quality aren't updated.

From my knowledge Imp only appeared in Savage Species, Fiend Folio (both 3.0) and MM/SRD (3.5) and while the monster may have changed, the playable race didn't. Given that I don't see a reason to change the score, I do appreciate you pointing out the difference though.

I would like to point this out bolded for effect.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere

[Tim Proctor]

I would like to point this out bolded for effect.

Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere

I was replying to the PM, but since you posed the same question here, I'll just answer it here.

As mentioned above the Race: Imp was not updated, the Monster: Imp was and they are separate things.

Furthermore, according to my knowledge 3.0 books which aren't web-exclusive aren't technically allowed in the competition. However, I have seen the Iron Chef competition (which this is based off of) the use of 3.0 books like Oriental Adventures, Savage Species, Manual of the Planes, etc. without any issues and I feel that it would be unfair to apply a standard not used previously to this competition without a blatant statement from the Chairman.

Edit: the build Deadpool features the Feind Folio and is technically an illegal build if we disallow the 3.0 books. However, if we do then we have to understand the difference between a race/class and a monster.

[relytdan]

by your own words an updated version of imp does exsist..

IC's allowance of: Oriental Adventures, Savage Species, Manual of the Planes, etc. without any issues - generally that's because what ever was used probably does not have an updated form.

but that's ok, I can't speak for things that may have occurred in past IC, just was pointing out the statement in the OP, nothing more.

I have done the score updates as of present to reflect any score changes, awaiting 3rd judge and pending any disputes

[Deadline]

It's worth noting that the progressions in SS haven't been used wholecloth without penalty. I updated Magralyx the succubus in the last round to use the new updated rules. And even then, such things usually carry a heavy penalty in the Elegance category. I don't recall the usage of 3.0 material that had a 3.5 update in recent IC.

That said, this isn't IC, so IC precedence may not mean much.:smalltongue:

[Tim Proctor]

That said, this isn't IC, so IC precedence may not mean much.:smalltongue:
I agree and I think the Chairman needs to make an executive decision on allowed vs. not on 3.0 books, and/or the difference between race class/monsters and if there is a distinction between the updating.

[Ortesk]

I agree and I think the Chairman needs to make an executive decision on allowed vs. not on 3.0 books, and/or the difference between race class/monsters and if there is a distinction between the updating.

I agree, the issue is i have no idea to take it with a grain of salt, to treat it as normal, to deduct, to throw it out, ect. I went with my gut and just deducted some

[RFLS]

The rules state that:


Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds.

This line:


Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed, but take care to verify that an updated version did not appear in print elsewhere, as this may cause an Elegance deduction at the judges' discretion.

Is referring only to Web-exclusive material. However, it provides a fairly clear precedent for the intention of the rules.

Race and "Monster," as Tim Proctor has put it, are interchangeable - the Imp was officially updated to 3.5 material, and was printed without an LA.

The Chairman's (yeah, 3rd person.) express opinion is that the Kitchen rules do not seem to explicitly cover this case. However, the RAI would seem to be that, should a contestant use an updated source (such as the Imp), they should, at the very least, be penalized for Elegance. If a judge so feels, they may refuse to judge that contestant, but, in this case, the build appears to be legal - if tenuously so.

- Chairman

[Tim Proctor]

The rules state that:



This line:



Is referring only to Web-exclusive material. However, it provides a fairly clear precedent for the intention of the rules.

Race and "Monster," as Tim Proctor has put it, are interchangeable - the Imp was officially updated to 3.5 material, and was printed without an LA.

The Chairman's (yeah, 3rd person.) express opinion is that the Kitchen rules do not seem to explicitly cover this case. However, the RAI would seem to be that, should a contestant use an updated source (such as the Imp), they should, at the very least, be penalized for Elegance. If a judge so feels, they may refuse to judge that contestant, but, in this case, the build appears to be legal - if tenuously so.

- Chairman
I'm actually trying to say they aren't interchangeable as not every monster can be a race, and not every race can be a monster. But I understand the intent of the issue.

Okay so then I will treat use of 3.0 books as an illegal build, since they are not web-exclusive material.

Please change Imp-Pool, accordingly.

Regarding regeneration vs fast healing the +1 to power for damage immunities would go away and the +0.5 to Accuracy would drop to +.25 for regeneration turning to fast healing.

Regarding polymorph vs. alternate form the +.25 from
Power would change to a -.25 (0.5 difference) because the alternate form option from 3.5 limits what forms the Imp can transform into do not resemble Deadpool whatsoever, and the +.25 in Accuracy would drop to a -.25 for attempting to imitate the ability but really failing to.

Power should be 2.71 falling from 4.21.
Elegance should be 0 falling from 4.95 for the use of illegal sources.
Accuracy should be 3.25 falling from 4.25

Please change Deadpool accordingly.

Elegance should be 0 falling from 4.95 for the use of illegal sources.


Edit: do not use the above, there was a misunderstanding with the Chairman's rulings.

[RFLS]

I'm actually trying to say they aren't interchangeable as not every monster can be a race, and not every race can be a monster. But I understand the intent of the issue.

I was explicitly contradicting you.


Okay so then I will treat use of 3.0 books as an illegal build, since they are not web-exclusive material.

This...is exactly the opposite of what I just finished ruling. The build is legal. Are you still refusing to judge it?

[Tim Proctor]

I was explicitly contradicting you.

This...is exactly the opposite of what I just finished ruling. The build is legal. Are you still refusing to judge it?
I'm confused.

So the ruling is that when using a racial class or template from 3.0, that was not updated to 3.5, we integrate the replacement updates where appropriate. Meaning specifically in this case that Fast Healing 2 repleaces Regeneration 1 and Polymorph is replaced by Alternate form? As well as HD type, and other such attributes?

My concern with this, is that it feels like homebrew and once you allow homebrew in a competition there will be issues. I don't want to have to compare every racial class or template and the 3.5 counterpart for HD type/amount, skills, abilities, etc

Also, the 3.0 books are in? Because reading the quotes and your statement, I took it to mean the rules are intended as written?

[RFLS]

I'm confused.

So the ruling is that when using a racial class or template from 3.0, that was not updated to 3.5, we integrate the replacement updates where appropriate. Meaning specifically in this case that Fast Healing 2 repleaces Regeneration 1 and Polymorph is replaced by Alternate form? As well as HD type, and other such attributes?

My concern with this, is that it feels like homebrew and once you allow homebrew in a competition there will be issues. I don't want to have to compare every racial class or template and the 3.5 counterpart for HD type/amount, skills, abilities, etc

Also, the 3.0 books are in? Because reading the quotes and your statement, I took it to mean the rules are intended as written?

As far as I can tell, Imp-pool is using the 3.0 version of the Imp race, as opposed to the Imp monster class. The Imp race was updated to 3.5, but he has chosen to use the 3.0 version.

Your second and third paragraphs have zero bearing on this conversation.

Your last paragraph's answer has multiple parts -

3.0 is considered a valid 3.5 source, unless specifically updated.
The line concerning web material sets the clear intention of the rules - that using 3.0 material when replacement 3.5 material exists should result in a deduction from Elegance.

[Tim Proctor]

As far as I can tell, Imp-pool is using the 3.0 version of the Imp race, as opposed to the Imp monster class.
Its the Monster Class from SS pg 180 nearly verbatim, which is not updated with the 3.5 rules D&D v.3.5 Accessory Update Booklet (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a). There were no updates to Savage Species with the 3.5 transition, so any change would be extrapolation.

[relytdan]

IMP (SS 179) <<3.0>>
Outsider (Evil, Lawful
TABLE A–29:THE IMP

***
<< The Imp is updated in 3.5 MM and SRD >>
***

IMP (MM 56) <<3.5>>
Tiny Outsider (Evil, Extraplanar, Lawful)
Level Adjustment: — (Improved Familiar)


I think the intent of the ruleing is to state that if an updated source is available for ( XYZ ) that if the contestant used a non-updated materials that they then could see a deduction for such.

[dysprosium]

Disclaimer: I am a contestant in this competition.

I think the biggest issue of this Imp-pool discussion is not the level adjustment issue.

It is the regeneration and polymorph issue. The 3.0 imp had regeneration and polymorph. The 3.5 imp has fast healing and alternate form. These 3.5 features replace the 3.0 features. It seems too easy but ultimately it is that easy.

True regeneration is nearly nonexistent outside of trolls and other monsters of the troll "family" excluding half trolls. Polymorph itself has gone through multiple revisions since 3.0 and most monsters do not have access to that spell or spell like ability instead having an alternate form ability.

Savage Species spells out which forms the imp can take too and happens to be the same list as the 3.5 imp.

The class "structure" of the imp from Savage Species does not need to change--just the class "features" of the imp. None of the class progressions from Savage Species were imported into 3.5 but that does not invalidate them as a whole. I hope that statement makes sense.

In Zinc Saucier XVIII, which I was a judge, there was a mind flayer that used the psionic version of the Savage Species progression. A question arose about its legitimacy since the Savage Species progression for the mind flayer does not have a psionic version. I ruled that it was a simple fix to replace the non psionic version with the psionic version.

The same can be done here--use the 3.5 replacement features for the 3.0 imp and that makes the build legal. Unfortunately the build kept the 3.0 features and that would warrant the Elegance deduction.

[WizardGirl74]

Just a watcher, and not to stir the pot but is this not a contest based on 3.5?

If so, 3.0 should be illegal?


Also is that true in all the IC's? 3.5 is the base with which we build?



Thanks!

WG

[Ortesk]

Just a watcher, and not to stir the pot but is this not a contest based on 3.5?

If so, 3.0 should be illegal?


Also is that true in all the IC's? 3.5 is the base with which we build?



Thanks!

WG

3.5 Unless no update was released and we can assume its compatible


The discussion im seeing is about the Imp race Vs. Imp Monster. Im waiting for the chairmans clear cut decision before i change any scores. To me, and this is IMHO, i see it as a bit distasteful but it has merit. Unless the Chairman rules its an illegal build, i stand by my scoring

[Man on Fire]

Which heroes would you guys like to see in the coming Heroic Chefs?

In alphabetic order:
Alberto The Shockwave (Giant Robo: the Day The Earth Stood Still)
Al-Jabr (Demon Knights)
Ares( Ares: God of War, Dark Avengers: Ares, Mighty Avengers, Dark Avengers)
Asura (Asura's Wrath)
Chase Stein (Runaways)
Clare (Claymore)
Druss the Legend (Drenai Saga)
Elric (Elric Saga)
Etrigan the Demon (Demon, Demon Knights)
Geralt (The Witcher)
Guts (Berserk)
Hellion (New X-Men)
Hercules (Incredible Hercules)
Hulkling (Young Avengers)
John Constantine (Hellblazer)
Jonathan Strange (Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norell)
Kedrigern (Kedrigerrn series)
Kenshiro (Fist of the North Star)
Kid Loki (Journey Into Mystery/Young Avengers)
Lady Sif (Thor, Journey Into Mystery comics)
Legion (X-Men: Legacy vol.2)
Lelouch Lamperouge (Code Geass)
Loki (Thor/Avengers movies)
Maame Xanadu (Madame Xanadu, Demon Knights)
Master Asia (Mobile Fighter G Gundam)
Master Cyclonis (Stormhawks)
Mayor Haggar (Final Fight)
Molly Hayes (Runaways)
Monza (Best Served Cold)
Mr. Norell (Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norell)
Nico Minoru (Runaways)
Olivier Armstrong(Fullmetal Alchemist)
Prodigy (New X-Men/Young Avengers)
Senator Armstrong (Metal Gear Rising: Revengance)
Surge (New X-Men)
Tenakha Khan (Drenai Saga)
Thorgal (Thorgal)
Trevor Phlips (GTA V)
Vandal Savage (Demon Knights)

[kestrel404]

Disclaimer: I am also a contestant
In every other Iron Chef competition I have been in, Savage Species was considered an acceptable source for all materials, though several of them were considered 'known cheese' and suffered elegance or originality penalties because of this.
However, the argument appears to be over whether the Savage Species interpretation of the Imp should be updated to the 3.5 interpretation of the Monster, not whether the Savage Species race/class is allowable. In that case, I'd like to point out that any such change would be effectively homebrew - the 3.5 monster is explicitly an LA - creature, and cannot be used as a playable race. So any update that would change some of the Imp monster class in Savage Species would also make that same monster class unplayable by PCs.
If the imp is accepted at all as a playable race from savage species, it must be accepted as-is. Any other interpretation would require an elegance penalty.
And in regards to the Imp's other forms needing to be from a specific list, the Savage Species text states:

Polymorph (Su):Starting at 3rd level, an imp chooses
one alternate form no larger than Medium-size (commonly a monstrous spider, raven, rat, or boar). It can take this form at will as if using the polymorph self spell (caster level 12th).
At 6th level it can choose a second form.
So again, since there is no 3.5 update document for Savage Species, the 3.5 Imp is not a playable race and because Text Trumps Table, either the Imp is valid as-is, or it should be rejected as an illegal ingredient. Attempting to apply penalties for part of an ingredient not being errataed when there is no way to validly errata the entire thing is irrational.

[relytdan]

It is the regeneration and polymorph issue. The 3.0 imp had regeneration and polymorph

Disclaimer: I am also a contestant

for my 2 coppers worth: keep the 3.0 features and that would warrant the Elegance deduction; for simplistic purposes of not using the 3.5 version which would make the build entirely unplayable.

[Tim Proctor]

So if the builds are legal, my scores are standing as posted in the original scoring.

@kestrel404 you are much better at saying what I was trying to address. There are no specific updates to the monster/racial class so its either illegal or legal, I am of the opinion that its legal.

@dysprosium, the issue is that the monster class was never updated and no updates to SS were made at all. While 'Imp' sounds a lot like 'Imp' it doesn't mean that they are the same thing, especially in D&D where we have things like hide in plain sight for ranger and shadow dancer which while named the exact same thing are different. Since there is no specific update to the monster class to engineer one would be homebrew, which is an illegal build, as homebrew is not allowed.

Also the rules from SS for polymorph specifically don't limit the choice, but does only give one form. I thought that it did at first glance, but when upon further review it doesn't actually limit it (RAW). To try and bring RAI into the mix as 'what would an IMP do' then everyone would get penalized because the nature of D&D adventuring and being a Merc with a Mouth for Marvel are so drastically different.

Regarding, the psionic mind flayer issue. If an alternate class or alternate racial feature/template specifically replaces something I can see a build being built like that because the RAW specifically update those features/abilities. However, there isn't with Imp and that would mean that we're making it up as we go.

[relytdan]

Change of subject -

Judge IronFist - is it possible to get an update- plenty of time yet - just curious

[dysprosium]

The biggest point is this:

The contestant should have known better than to enter a 3.0 creature.

The judges should have known better to call the contestant on it--one did, one didn't.

Instead we have what we have here. There is a point where common sense has to enter the conversation instead of following RAW versus RAI and all of the headaches that come with it.

I can't explain anything any simpler than I have. Either you're going to agree with me or not. You're the judge--however as a judge you need to realize that there will be those who will disagree with your rulings.

[relytdan]

Judge Tim Proctor
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|17.31|Imp-Pool|3.9|4.21|4.95|4.25

2|16.5|X-FORCE|4.4|4.45|2.65|5

3|14.27|Xend-re|4.6|3.82|1.85|4

4|14.12|Wade|3.05|3.27|4.3|3.5

5|12.25|Deadpool|2.95|2.95|1.6|4.75

[/table]

Judge Ortesk
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|15.5|Imp-Pool|3.5|4.0|4.5|3.0

2|15|X-FORCE|4.5|4.5|2.5|3.5

2|15|Deadpool|4.5|4.5|1|5.0

3|12|Wade|3.5|3.5|4.0|1

4|11|Xend-re|4.5|4.0|1.5|1

[/table]


Total scores - Pending chairman, judges and possible disputes

{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME

1|32.31|Imp-Pool

2|31.5|X-FORCE

3|27.5|Deadpool

4|26.12|Wade

5|25.27|Xend-re

[/table]

[Ortesk]

Lots of numbers



UIm just gonna say your awesome at doing all this number crunching and putting up with our changing scores

[relytdan]

UIm just gonna say your awesome at doing all this number crunching and putting up with our changing scores

heh thanks its not that hard - as I don't know whats going on with the ( Imp-Pool) I have done nothing with it, or any of the others, and I think there is yet 1 to judge couple days left yet..

[RFLS]

Dispute:

Tim Proctor:

Subject: Deadpool

Originality did not include +.25 from Heir of Siberys, although it was mentioned.
Another build used human; none of them were penalized.
The other human used Battledancer; neither of the two were penalized.
The math in Accuracy is wrong - 4.0 + .5 + 1.25 - .25 - .05 hits the cap at a solid 5.0.
In Power, you calculate his max DPR as 70. Quote from the original dispute:
It would seem that you took maximum non crit damage and all beneficial factors into account. So three attacks main hand, two offhand plus haste spell from Jester levels plus dancing mongoose maneuver plus favored enemy using revolvers (DMG p146) at 2d8 each equals (16+2)*8 or 144. If we were to get our hands on laser pistols instead (DMG p146) at 3d6, the damage increases to (18+2)*8 or 160.


Ortesk:

Subject: Deadpool

Originality - someone else also used human.


For both cases, it's argued that dipping should not be penalized. However, I've omitted that, as the OP clearly states that excessive multiclassing could lose points. Given the contest, however, this rule will be revisited in later competitions - and the Chairman would recommend that the judges lessen the penalty for dipping for all contestants in this one.

- RFLS

[Tim Proctor]

Dispute:

Tim Proctor:

Subject: Deadpool

Originality did not include +.25 from Heir of Siberys, although it was mentioned.
Another build used human; none of them were penalized.
The other human used Battledancer; neither of the two were penalized.
The math in Accuracy is wrong - 4.0 + .5 + 1.25 - .25 - .05 hits the cap at a solid 5.0.
In Power, you calculate his max DPR as 70. Quote from the original dispute:


Originality recalculated for Deadpool +.25 for heir -0.4 for human, new score 2.8.

The accuracy score is unchanged, because it seemed that I didn't tally the -.25 for Disguise and Facial deformity. So its supposed to still be 4.75.

Power has be recalculated to have 3 extra attacks (haste and dancing mongoose), however since guns are mentioned briefly and specifically mentioned subject to DM approval while Katanas are focused on I'm keeping the weapon for Katanas. The Two-Weapon fighting specifically mentions the Katanas so the extra attack can't be translated over. Anyways the power level was recalculated and the new power rating is 3.47.

X-forces was changed also +.25 from human changed to -0.4, Battle Dancer added in for -0.4, new originality 3.35.

[dysprosium]

So will there be a Heroic Chef II?

Did the Chairman believe that the positives from this challenge outweigh the negatives?

Stay tuned.
Same thread time.
Same thread channel.

[RFLS]

So will there be a Heroic Chef II?

Did the Chairman believe that the positives from this challenge outweigh the negatives?

Stay tuned.
Same thread time.
Same thread channel.

I'm inclined to run one, yes. Hopefully the next one has more contestants and judges.

[dysprosium]

I'm inclined to run one, yes. Hopefully the next one has more contestants and judges.

Well that was a quick commercial break! :smallsmile:

[Deadline]

Worth noting (as I'm not sure changing it now would be fair to the chefs this round), but you should probably come to a decision regarding the use of 3.0 material that has been updated to 3.5.

Yes, I get that some folks seem to think that an Imp isn't and Imp, but there should be some level of common sense prevailing here. :smalltongue:

Perhaps a warning reminding future chefs to double check things like this, and if there is a doubt, either assume that the quibble in question won't work, or PM the chairman for a "common sense" check.

The dishes were excellent this round, and I hope to see this competition continue!

[RFLS]

Worth noting (as I'm not sure changing it now would be fair to the chefs this round), but you should probably come to a decision regarding the use of 3.0 material that has been updated to 3.5.

I have, and have repeatedly stated it. The OP is also rather clear in its intentions in this regard. Because it seems that a large number of people are having difficulties with this, either in understanding or listening, here it is again:

3.0 material is always valid 3.5 source material. If a 3.0 source has been updated, then it is still valid - but can, and probably should, result in a hit to elegance.

As a separate issue, the Imp used for Imp-pool seems to be the Imp monster class from Savage Species. This source has never been updated.

Is everyone absolutely clear this time through?

[dysprosium]

Yes, I get that some folks seem to think that an Imp isn't and Imp, but there should be some level of common sense prevailing here. :smalltongue:


3.0 material is always valid 3.5 source material. If a 3.0 source has been updated, then it is still valid - but can, and probably should, result in a hit to elegance.
As a separate issue, the Imp used for Imp-pool seems to be the Imp monster class from Savage Species. This source has never been updated.

The source Savage Species has never been updated but the class features of the Imp have been updated: specifically polymorph to alternate form and regeneration to fast healing. Since Imp-pool used the class features of the 3.0 imp then the elegance hit should occur. Seems pretty clear to me. Especially since the Source List for the entry specifically calls out the imp as being from the SRD which is 3.5.

I agree that common sense should prevail here. And appears that this is the compromise the Chairman was looking for as well.

[relytdan]

I have updated the tally's and if I have copied something wrong please let me know I will fix it.

Judge Tim Proctor
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|17.31|Imp-Pool|3.9|4.21|4.95|4.25

2|15.45|X-FORCE|3.35|4.45|2.65|5

3|14.27|Xend-re|4.6|3.82|1.85|4

4|14.12|Wade|3.05|3.27|4.3|3.5

5|12.62|Deadpool|2.8|3.47|1.6|4.75

[/table]

Judge Ortesk
{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME|Originality|Power|Elegance|Accuracy

1|15.5|Imp-Pool|3.5|4.0|4.5|3.0

2|15|X-FORCE|4.5|4.5|2.5|3.5

2|15|Deadpool|4.5|4.5|1|5.0

3|12|Wade|3.5|3.5|4.0|1

4|11|Xend-re|4.5|4.0|1.5|1

[/table]


Total scores - Pending judges and possible disputes

{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME

1|32.31|Imp-Pool

2|31.45|X-FORCE

3|27.62|Deadpool

4|26.12|Wade

5|25.27|Xend-re

[/table]

[Deadline]

As a separate issue, the Imp used for Imp-pool seems to be the Imp monster class from Savage Species. This source has never been updated.[/B]

Is everyone absolutely clear this time through?

Apologies if my post frustrated you, but my confusion stems from allowing the Imp class at all (I get allowing it this time, because it would be brutally unfair to Imp-pool's chef). The Imp was updated, as you note, in 3.5. One of those updates is an LA of --. Which means it wouldn't be a viable option for a Savage Species progression, because it isn't a viable option for a character. That shouldn't really effect this round (aside from possible elegance hits which would be up to individual judges), but future contests might want to use it again. Considering it viable for use in future rounds is what confuses me. But then, I'm remarkably easy to confuse. :smallbiggrin:

I'm frankly surprised this doesn't seem to have come up in IC. And really, an edge case like the Imp/Imp Class may not be an issue again, I'm just trying to be helpful for future comps.

Edit - Also, it looks like congratulations are in order for Imp-Pool!

[dysprosium]

I'm frankly surprised this doesn't seem to have come up in IC. And really, an edge case like the Imp/Imp Class may not be an issue again, I'm just trying to be helpful for future comps.

That would be because most of the chef is IC know better--and the judges wouldn't let it fly either. :smallwink:

What I worry about is the precedent it sets . . .

[kestrel404]

That would be because most of the chef is IC know better--and the judges wouldn't let it fly either. :smallwink:

What I worry about is the precedent it sets . . .

Nah, I've seen MUCH more questionable stuff in IC. Heck, I think I've submitted more questionable stuff in IC. And gotten Honorable mention for it. :smallbiggrin:: (Polishes Seeker of the Song trophy)

[Tim Proctor]

That would be because most of the chef is IC know better--and the judges wouldn't let it fly either. :smallwink:

What I worry about is the precedent it sets . . .
It very much could have with Deadline's Succubus build which has 'Polymorph (At-will, any humanoid form)' when SS has it listed as alternate form 'humanoid form from Small to Large size.' instead of the SRD version 'Change Shape (Su) An succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid.'. While the implications are slightly different it allows for some interesting templated alternate shapes. I think that if people started trying to update the Succubus class/levels for the competition it would have ended in the same result, the understanding that class levels and monsters are separate.

I think the safest avenue was a RAW approach, and the necessity for a 'specific update'.

[dysprosium]

It very much could have with Deadline's Succubus build which has 'Polymorph (At-will, any humanoid form)' when SS has it listed as alternate form 'humanoid form from Small to Large size.' instead of the SRD version 'Change Shape (Su) An succubus can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid.'. While the implications are slightly different it allows for some interesting templated alternate shapes. I think that if people started trying to update the Succubus class/levels for the competition it would have ended in the same result, the understanding that class levels and monsters are separate.

I think the safest avenue was a RAW approach, and the necessity for a 'specific update'.

The difference was that Deadline's succubus did not rely, require, nor even care about its polymorph ability. In fact it had nothing to do with its tactics, story, or anything about it. I'll admit that I didn't even notice anything "different" with it when I read it. Of course I wasn't judging it either.

Similarly none of the judges noted anything with it since again they were looking at how the succubus meshed with Corrupt Avenger. There were no need for polymorph shenanigans or worrying about how Magralyx was turning into something to be more Corrupt Avenger like.

Part of Imp-pool's shtick is the polymorph (into a demon of all things and one that it could not even turn into legally with polymorph since the kelvezu has 18 HD . . .) in order for it to become more Deadpool-like. In fact the build itself is dependent upon this factor.

And you as judge let it all go, even going so far as to gushing about its regeneration ability, and giving points for shape changing (does Deadpool even shapechange?).

So actually I would say the two instances are different.

[Tim Proctor]

I'm sorry that you feel the need to sour other people's grapes.

The issues aren't with power nor elegance but legality. Whether or not the Savage Species monster classes were updated. Since there is no specific nor direct update to the book, then the basis was that the builds were legal. To mix and match a 3.0 monster class and plug in the 3.5 equivalents without any RAW direction to do so is homebrewing. The precendent that people have to homebrew the monster classes is the worst thing that could have happened.

There is no way for me to force my homebrew design onto a RAW build and say 'this is how it should work'.

[Tim Proctor]

I do want to add that Deadpool should get the honorable mention because the high accuracy from both judges.

[dysprosium]

I'm sorry that you feel the need to sour other people's grapes.

The issues aren't with power nor elegance but legality. Whether or not the Savage Species monster classes were updated. Since there is no specific nor direct update to the book, then the basis was that the builds were legal. To mix and match a 3.0 monster class and plug in the 3.5 equivalents without any RAW direction to do so is homebrewing. The precendent that people have to homebrew the monster classes is the worst thing that could have happened.

There is no way for me to force my homebrew design onto a RAW build and say 'this is how it should work'.

I love how it's "sour grapes" when people don't agree on things.

The Chairman's ruling even supported the compromise that you call "homebrewing."

But like I said before, the contestant should have known that this could be a potential issue and the judges should have called him on it.

[Deadline]

I'd like to point out that I did update the succubus to the 3.5 version. I rather specifically did not use the 3.0 version, because it had been updated. Also, I took a big hit to elegance for it from most of the judges. That said, this round worked really well, and I hope RFLS keeps it going.

[dysprosium]

I'd like to point out that I did update the succubus to the 3.5 version. I rather specifically did not use the 3.0 version, because it had been updated. Also, I took a big hit to elegance for it from most of the judges. That said, this round worked really well, and I hope RFLS keeps it going.

That's because you know better. :smallwink:

RFLS did say that there would be a Heroic Chef II.

Let's just hope it's not Wolverine . . .

[relytdan]

Wolverine - I actually have a wolverine build - that could be modified for this contest...

On the subject of the Succubus - as I did judge that - I can say it did not score well for various reasons from me but not for its 'Polymorph (At-will, any humanoid form) - as I all but ignored it.

the primary issue with imp-pool is a 3.0 source is used as a monster class - as such the monster IMP class is not updated but the IMP it self was updated to 3.5, there is this bit from the chairmain about using the most updated materials, as such is a non playable, and at the very least should see elegance deductions in my opinion - however that said I wont step on the judges toes if they feel the monster class not being updated is good enough - this could lead to future entries citeing this as reasons to do X, Y or Z...

[Deadline]

That's because you know better. :smallwink:

Well that, and the Succubus is still usable in 3.5. The only thing the monster class gave me was the ability to start at level 1 instead of level 12. It is, ironically, a more elegant solution than just starting the build at level 12. :smallbiggrin:


this could lead to future entries citeing this as reasons to do X, Y or Z...

I think this has caused enough of a scene that prospective future chefs may steer clear of such contentious things. At any rate, it looks like this round has a clear winner. :smallsmile:

[dysprosium]

Any hints on the next ingredient? Is it going to be a DC character since a Marvel character was done for this one?
How many of you thought I was going to say something about Imp-pool? Be honest!

[Tim Proctor]

Any hints on the next ingredient? Is it going to be a DC character since a Marvel character was done for this one?
How many of you thought I was going to say something about Imp-pool? Be honest!
I bet it is Howard the Duck.

I did.

[relytdan]

the time is 1:02 AM Thursday, November 14, 2013
Total scores


{table=head]Rank|Total Score|NAME

1|32.31|Imp-Pool

2|31.45|X-FORCE

3|27.62|Deadpool

4|26.12|Wade

5|25.27|Xend-re

[/table]

We await the chairmains reveal & congratz to Imp-pool, X-force and Deadpool

[RFLS]

Greetings, everyone! It is with great pleasure that I announce the closing of the first Heroic Chef Optimization, and the names of the winners. Without any ado whatsoever, here they are:

In third place, we have the build simply named "Deadpool," give, to us by dysprosium!

In second place, we have the build titled "X-Force," from none other than Prime32!

And finally, in first place, our controversial build, we have "Imp-pool" by kestrel404!

Everyone give them a hearty round of applause, and look for the next Heroic Chef in the Playground to be posted on this forum later on tonight!


I'm doing what I can to get the winners some shiny trophies, but it's going slowly. I will let you know as soon as I have them.

[kestrel404]

Congratulations, everyone! Everyone made good deadpools.

Full disclosure time! When I went looking for things with regeneration, there wasn't much. Trolls. Half-trolls....yeah that's all I found.

I might have gone with the troll thing (deadpool is very trollish...in the internet sense anyway), but I decided I'd keep looking in my less used sourcebooks.

A few searches later and I found that the Imp in SS had regeneration. So did the Kyton...but I didn't think that would work so well.

I then went looking for errata. I really did. I searched for Savage Species 3.5 update, downloaded the zip file from WoTC that claimedseemed to cover Savage Species (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnD35_update_booklet.zip) and looked for changes to the imp, or any reference to how changes in the Monster Manual should be applied to savage species classes.

Nothing, no changes, no mention. That was as far as I looked at that point, and just used Imp as it was written in SS. When I looked again later, I found out that I'd apparently been looking for material that didn't exist, which is why google failed me.

So, I'm sorry that there was so much confusion surrounding Savage Species imp-class, but I have used Savage Species in several previous Iron Chef competitions without anything close to this kind of issue. In the future, I'll be more wary of 3.0 materials and put full disclosure in the design description, but I still feel that the Savage Species Imp was the best choice.

I mean come on, deadpool makes an awesome insane demon-immitating imp. :D

[dysprosium]

Here is the unedited version of the dispute I sent in. The Chairman thought that if this was presented "as is" my anomynity would be given away:


So how are we doing?
I’m ok. How are you?
I don’t care how you’re doing. I want to know how the competition is.
Well . . . um.
C’mon, Timmy. Tell me how we’re smokin’ the competition.
I can’t.
Awesome! I knew you could do it Timmy! Wait a second. Are you telling me we’re not winning?
Exactly.
But that’s unpossible! I’m Deadpool! Didn’t you tell them that I was Deadpool?
Yes, but judging is a little more complicated than that.
Not to me. Not even seeing Dorothy can make me feel better.
Here’s a chimichanga. We haven’t lost yet.
Not even a chimichanga will make me feel better. But three will! So what didn’t they like about me?
Well they used a scoring system that penalizes dipping.
Penalizing dipping! I love dipping! Barbecue, ranch, processed cheese . . .
Not that kind of dip. When a character build only takes a few levels of a lot of classes. And we dipped a lot. But I thought that if anyone would be ok for dipping it would be Deadpool. I mean you can’t focus on anything!
What? I totally can to focus on things. I did kill the entire Marvel Universe you know.
Wasn’t that revealed to be an alternate version of you?
Oh right. I forgot about that. What were we talking about again?
I was just hoping that they would have been a little more lenient on the dipping. I mean it’s not exactly like Iron Chef where excessive dipping is taboo.
Like when Bobby found that idol on the Brady Bunch.
Riiiight. I just wished the judges weren’t so harsh with the dipping penalties. I thought I made a pretty good representation of what you could do.
Looked legit to me. But then again I’m not a nerd. But that couldn’t have been the only thing they didn’t like.
Well one of the judges thought I didn’t make you powerful enough.
Well if you made me a Tier 1 20th level Wizard like I asked.
It’s a numbers game. I just have to show how you can deal lots to damage.
Duh! It’s with my guns! Let me read these judgings.
While you read them I’ll calculate your damage output. Considering that this judge gave us credit for getting guns in the first place, I imagine it would be ok to use them for this calculation. It would seem that he took maximum non crit damage and all beneficial factors into account. So three attacks main hand, two offhand plus haste spell from Jester levels plus dancing mongoose maneuver plus favored enemy using revolvers (DMG p146) at 2d8 each equals (16+2)*8 or 144. If we were to get our hands on laser pistols instead (DMG p146) at 3d6, the damage increases to (18+2)*8 or 160. Not exactly 300 but it should get some points back.
Hey this guy says I was his favorite build but I somehow scored the lowest. That’s like getting to make out with Dorothy but settling for a supermodel instead. I don’t get it.
I didn’t get it either. That’s why I’m questioning it. Based on the judging criteria alone you don’t do well but don’t tell me that you were the favorite otherwise. If this build truly is the judge’s favorite it should get more discretionary points or change the rubric to make it so.
Well I’ll be back if things change.
I’m sure you will.

(Nitpicky) Things Deadpool wouldn’t understand: I would too understand!
First thank you to the judges. Judging is not an easy task. You should also be given credit for being the first judges for Heroic Chef, what could become a good competition.
Tim Proctor: Originality score did not include the 0.25 bonus for Heir of Siberys though it was mentioned. Also Deadpool should be penalized for being human as he was not the only one. The other human based build did not get penalized for that or taking Battle Dancer either.
For Elegance, since you gave credit for Imp-pool’s level adjustment, should the same courtesy go for the half troll template? Deadpool completed his level adjustment in the same way Imp-pool did.
For Accuracy, yes this build took half troll template as the “deformity.” There you go calling my momma ugly again!
Ortesk: For Originality, as above with the human comment. Deadpool is still human so he was another human build.
For Elegance, also as above with the level adjustment comment. Deadpool completed his level adjustment in the same way Imp-pool did.

Seriously though congratulations to everyone. This was a fun challenge--I had fun writing the build, submitting the build, and yes even debating the whole Imp-pool-gate. And who among us would not want to have a conversation with Deadpool? Seriously how can these contests be any fun without me!

But kestrel404, dude, really. As an IC veteran you really should have known better. You listed the SRD as your source for the imp, did you notice it didn't have regeneration or polymorph in the revision?

Call this a personal pet peeve but the use of Abyssal Heritor feats on an infernal creature left a bad taste in my mouth. I like having the fluff match the crunch and these two ingredients don't seem to mix for me. I know that by RAW they are legal together but the fluff just doesn't mesh. Abyssal Heritor feats are the awakening of a latent demonic bloodline in a character's distant past. Do imps have families that would have allowed some kind of demonic influence from the past? Such a coupling would not make sense.

So polymorph is ok for your build. I can live with that. But you still have to follow the rules for polymorph though. The spell says that you cannot turn into a form that has more Hit Dice than you or your caster level. The kelvezu has 18 HD which makes it an improper choice both at the time you choose the form and even at ECL 20. But dude I just drank a Red Bull and I totally got my wings!

Now judging is hard work. I know--I've judged quite a few contests including a very contentious Iron Chef round. Personally I find a little flexibility goes a long way.

When I saw both judges' criteria I know that my Deadpool was sunk by those metrics. Never been judged by statistical formulas before. I've said before in other contests that sometimes builds just don't jive with the judges. People have different preferences for things. So when I saw my low score I was really ready to just chalk this up in the loss column and go on my merry way. But one phrase really got my goat and just confused me greatly:

"I think this was my favorite."

So that got me thinking. If my build really was his favorite why did it score so poorly? What did I do wrong? What did the others do right?

A couple analogies:
Perfect world you can buy whatever car you want--I'm partial to Porsches myself. Money is no object. There is nothing stopping you from getting your dream car.
But you look at the statistics and discover that you would rather have a used Honda Civic.

Your favorite ice cream is Rocky Road but since it has too many ingredients, you decide to have vanilla instead.

*Please note I did not call anyone's builds Honda Civics or vanilla ice cream.

It was your first time judging Tim Proctor and you stuck to your guns all the was through. I can respect that. For next time you judge--don't tell the build you scored lowest it was your favorite. It really was my personal impetus for the debates.

[kestrel404]

Deadpool's Return
Highly amusing.


But kestrel404, dude, really. As an IC veteran you really should have known better. You listed the SRD as your source for the imp, did you notice it didn't have regeneration or polymorph in the revision?
I did indeed notice. That was one of the reasons I went hunting for errata and the 3.5 update. Since I couldn't find any that changed the way the Imp SS class worked, I took it as valid.

And seriously, it's up to the judges to weigh in on one side of that argument or the other. They did. So did the Chairman (RFLS). It is obviously not as black and white of an issue as you're making it out to be, since you're the only one making such a big stink about it.


Call this a personal pet peeve but the use of Abyssal Heritor feats on an infernal creature left a bad taste in my mouth. I like having the fluff match the crunch and these two ingredients don't seem to mix for me. I know that by RAW they are legal together but the fluff just doesn't mesh. Abyssal Heritor feats are the awakening of a latent demonic bloodline in a character's distant past. Do imps have families that would have allowed some kind of demonic influence from the past? Such a coupling would not make sense.
This is an imp who's schtick is to go around looking like a demon 90% of the time. I thought it was completely appropriate. And really, you're going to complain about me re-fluffing feats? Which Dragonmark is half-troll associated with again?


So polymorph is ok for your build. I can live with that. But you still have to follow the rules for polymorph though. The spell says that you cannot turn into a form that has more Hit Dice than you or your caster level. The kelvezu has 18 HD which makes it an improper choice both at the time you choose the form and even at ECL 20. But dude I just drank a Red Bull and I totally got my wings!
http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Kelvezu

As per savage species, the imps CL for their polymorph effect is 12. Kelvezu has 12 HD, not 18.

So, yes, I get it, you would have panned my build. Fine. Next time, be a judge.

[dysprosium]

I did indeed notice. That was one of the reasons I went hunting for errata and the 3.5 update. Since I couldn't find any that changed the way the Imp SS class worked, I took it as valid.

And seriously, it's up to the judges to weigh in on one side of that argument or the other. They did. So did the Chairman (RFLS). It is obviously not as black and white of an issue as you're making it out to be, since you're the only one making such a big stink about it.

My point was you knew something like this would not fly in IC. No precedents here means that you can give it a whirl here. Got a first time judge to fall in love with it and you're golden. I'm saying well played. I expected nothing less from someone who has David Xanatos as his avatar.

And to be fair, I wasn't the only one making "such a big stink about it"--just the loudest. Also note that all I was asking for was what my interpretation of the Chairman's ruling as written. Since there was no evidence of what the Chairman's intent was I took what he wrote to mean what I thought it meant. It was actually more of a shade of grey. A more black/white ruling would be totally in as is or totally out as is--neither of which I advocated for.


This is an imp who's schtick is to go around looking like a demon 90% of the time. I thought it was completely appropriate. And really, you're going to complain about me re-fluffing feats? Which Dragonmark is half-troll associated with again?

I did say it was a personal pet peeve. Demons and devils don't mix--Blood War and all that.

Since you asked . . .And you can appreciate this since you like your steak tar-tar, Siberys dragonmarks are not associated with any particular house or race. The whole point is that they appear. I met the prerequisites of the presitge class and was good to go as it were. Believe me I didn't want to really stick Deadpool in Eberron--couldn't say what he would have thought about that. No TV and no chimichangas make Deadpool go crazy! And I thought the setting specific features were going to cost me points.



http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/mainlist2.pl?name=Kelvezu

As per savage species, the imps CL for their polymorph effect is 12. Kelvezu has 12 HD, not 18.

So, yes, I get it, you would have panned my build. Fine. Next time, be a judge.

I apologize. When I flipped through my MMII, I saw CR 18 and for some reason I thought it was 18 HD. It is a perfectly viable form for you to take once your HD equals 12 as per polymorph (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/polymorph.htm) at ECL 16.

You can never tell what is going to appear as your competition when you decide to enter a build. Maybe shoot me a PM next time we're both competing and say "Hey dude, I got this totally RAW argument that could possibly cause an uproar. You should totally judge it."

And I wouldn't have "panned" it as badly as you think I would have. My own scoring rubric is more organic and less statistical. I think even if the numbers would have changed, you still would have won.

Seriously congratulations on your win. We all enter these competitons because they are fun but I know winning is a nice perk too. I'm not ashamed to say that I wanted to win.

I have no beef with you nor do I want one (with you or anybody else). I have no problems continuing to talk about it should we feel the need either here or via PM.

[Xerlith]

Ahh well. Maybe next time. Congrats to winners. :smallbiggrin: