Handing Out Items to PC's

[crazybob]

Hello all,

I'm sorry if this has been asked a bunch but I don't know how to phrase it in a search to find what I'm looking for...

I am fairly new at D&D and running a campaign. My players have just finished running thru "The Sunless Citadel" dungeon and have emerged at level 3, with almost all of their original gear/equipment (with a few exceptions).

My question is, when they get into town and and sell their various loot to have money to buy new armor/weapons, what types of things should I offer? I have been reading the the DM guide as well as the Magic Item Compendium, but there is something that isn't clicking with me I guess.

As players level, should they be getting better armor weapons? Like a Ranger using a longbow for example, (when) should they start to get a +1, +2, etc. longbow?

My only prior experience that is anything close to D&D has been MMORPG's (Wow, Star Wars, etc.) and you get new gear almost every level starting from the beginning and I'm not sure if it is the same as this?

When it gets down to it, I guess I am looking for advice on what types of items a shop should have, or be available to the players at any given point.

As a reference, the group has a total of approximately 9000 gp if I remember correctly. Group size is typically 3-4 but we have had as many as 7 playing at a time.

Thanks for the help!

[Subaru Kujo]

Hello all,

I'm sorry if this has been asked a bunch but I don't know how to phrase it in a search to find what I'm looking for...

I am fairly new at D&D and running a campaign. My players have just finished running thru "The Sunless Citadel" dungeon and have emerged at level 3, with almost all of their original gear/equipment (with a few exceptions).

My question is, when they get into town and and sell their various loot to have money to buy new armor/weapons, what types of things should I offer? I have been reading the the DM guide as well as the Magic Item Compendium, but there is something that isn't clicking with me I guess.

As players level, should they be getting better armor weapons? Like a Ranger using a longbow for example, (when) should they start to get a +1, +2, etc. longbow?

My only prior experience that is anything close to D&D has been MMORPG's (Wow, Star Wars, etc.) and you get new gear almost every level starting from the beginning and I'm not sure if it is the same as this?

When it gets down to it, I guess I am looking for advice on what types of items a shop should have, or be available to the players at any given point.

As a reference, the group has a total of approximately 9000 gp if I remember correctly. Group size is typically 3-4 but we have had as many as 7 playing at a time.

Thanks for the help!
Usually I'd say level 3 or so for a +1 weapon (or perhaps two if they are TWF) for all of the physical attackers, if only so that I can throw more deadly stuff at them. Armor could lag behind a little bit, but not too terribly much. Higher up stuff is a crapshoot. Usually, have them in +2 weapons by level 7, with maybe a single +3 at level 8 (not even something the group necessarily wants to use).


Maybe throw your Wizard/Cleric a wand for either downtime healing, or utility stuff.

But I do take offense at the handing out part of your title. Should very rarely be handed out to them. Make them earn it, either by solving a rather tricky trap, or by prying the weapon from the cold, dead hands of a hated foe.

[theIrkin]

It all depends on the game you're playing. On pg134 (I think) of the 3.5 DMG is average wealth by level, which gives you a good idea of what kind of things your characters should be able to afford.

Now, as to what they should have and what's available, it all depends on Ye world setting and the size of the settlement they're selling their stuff in. Each settlement has its own maximum gold value for items purchased and sold. Other than that, in standard DnD, any magic item that you don't specifically want to include is available or can be commissioned.

So what armor weapons should they have? Whatever a character can afford. And sometimes a character will never buy magic amor or weapons. Sometimes they just need to be invisible and able to heal with bonuses to sneaky skills.

[DruidAlanon]

Usually I'd say level 3 or so for a +1 weapon (or two if they are TWF) for all of the physical attackers, if only so that I can throw more deadly stuff at them. Armor could lag behind a little bit, but not too terribly much. Higher up stuff is a crapshoot. Usually, have them in +2 weapons by level 7, with maybe a single +3 at level 8.


Maybe throw your Wizard/Cleric a wand for either downtime healing, or utility stuff.

I wouldn't suggest to be generous. If I were you I would let them take a +1 after 5 or so, and magical items after 6. I don't like the "inflation" of +weapons and magic items. They should be unique. But, it depends on how much magic/wealth exists in general in your world/common cities.

[Subaru Kujo]

I wouldn't suggest to be generous. If I were you I would let them take a +1 after 5 or so, and magical items after 6. I don't like the "inflation" of +weapons and magic items. They should be unique. But, it depends on how much magic/wealth exists in general in your world/common cities.

As I said, it's more a case of I want to give them a chance to spar with more deadly things. That's just how I play it, as my creatures/NPCs are probably a bit too deadly for what they ought to be.

For instance, the last battle of my first campaign (at level 7 (stupid clinicals got in the way of the day the campaign was on, so I had to stop DMing it)) was to be them facing off against a druid that was part of the party originally, but left after being disgusted at their insistence that civilization was the way to go. She got her hands on an orb of writhing roots that would revive her into a thorn like monstrosity on death (not to mention she could suddenly reforest areas, doing 2d8 damage to all in a 10ft radius as a free action once per turn). All of her spells would come back, and she would have to be put down with fire and ice after that. I wouldn't think the party could handle that, especially with the tribe's other wizard and fighter wailing on them, and nearly 50 angry tribesmen crawling towards them at all sides without a bit of help.

But yeah, maybe next time I'll try to play it more by the book. Just seemed right for how my campaign was set up that time.

[johnbragg]

Hello all,
When it gets down to it, I guess I am looking for advice on what types of items a shop should have, or be available to the players at any given point.

As a reference, the group has a total of approximately 9000 gp if I remember correctly. Group size is typically 3-4 but we have had as many as 7 playing at a time.

Thanks for the help!

First of all, beware of giving the players too much stuff. It's a lot easier to give the players nice things than it is to take them away from players, or to figure out how to DM around the inappropriate stuff you gave them.

It looks like your players are spending 1000-2000 gp each. So they can each get themselves a +1 weapon, or +1 armor, or a wand, or a bunch of 1st and 2nd level scrolls. ACtually, they probably can't afford a +1 weapon.

You haven't been overly generous, (your guys are a little behind the wealth-by-level guidelines) so I think you could cut the players a break and DM fiat that they can talk the shopkeeper into selling them +1 weapons for say 1500 gold, or whatever they have. IF someone's buying scrolls or potions in bulk, cut them a discount too. (The nice thing, from a DM perspective, about single-use items is that they go away.)

Right now, your players can't afford a Bag of Holding or (better) a Heward's Handy Haversack, so anyone buying a bunch of potions or scrolls is going to have to figure out how to carry them. Unless several players go in together, buying the Haversack and a bunch of 1st-level scrolls and potions.

[Bloodgruve]

You will have to deal with the PC's you create. You can give them +5 weapons at first level and adjust your encounters for it but it becomes a big pain. Somehow a Ranger in one of my groups got a +2 Longbow at lvl 4 and she's been destroying things pretty easily.

Try to follow the WBL chart as best you can. Follow the random treasure generation and allow your PC's to purchase what they can. If you hand out treasure deduct it from the WBL chart to keep things even.

Make sure your non casters have magic items to support them or they will start noticeably falling behind the tier 1's around level 7. If a character has any 'special DM items of awesomeness' try to mitigate their share of treasure or have an upkeep cost for the item to keep everyone even.

I like my PC's to have +1 stuff around 4th, +2 around 8th lvl, +3 around 12th, +4 around 15th and +5 around 18th.

GL
Blood~

[LordBlades]

I wouldn't suggest to be generous. If I were you I would let them take a +1 after 5 or so, and magical items after 6. I don't like the "inflation" of +weapons and magic items. They should be unique. But, it depends on how much magic/wealth exists in general in your world/common cities.

The problem with that is that the game system itself isn't setup to be run like that.

Mundanes rely on magical gear to provide various stuff they need (flight, ability to see invisible foes, ability to hurt incorporeals, healing etc. ) while casters can provide these ability with spells.

Few magic items widens the gap between casters and mundanes greatly, so I wouldn't advise it to anyone, unless both the GM and the players know what they're doing, and the players have been told in advance about it.

[Red Fel]

I would start with WBL tables, as suggested. See how much their present gear is worth, see how much WBL should be (roughly), and see how they're doing with what they have.

If they're struggling, adjust upwards. Make gear more abundant as loot, or make cash-equivalent loot more available and give them an opportunity to go shopping. (That way, their ability to gear up becomes a function of their skill and knowledge, rather than your generosity.)

If they're doing fine, do nothing. If it ain't broke, as the saying goes...

Another option is the megaquest reward. Every now and then the heroes go on a dungeon dive or quest that's bigger than the usual fare. Accordingly, a bigger-than-average reward is appropriate. If it's an actual reward (a la "Thank you for saving my kingdom! Select something from my treasury!") personalized items are entirely appropriate. So, a new flashy sword for the fighter, an enhanced bow for the ranger, and maybe a new staff for the spellcaster (feel free to be a bit skimpy on the casters; their needs are different and I never liked them anyway). If it's not a reward, but rather a loot experience (a la "The dragon's dead! Raid the hoard!") make it mostly cash and vendor loot (works of art, jewels, etc.), along with some material components, with some randomly-selected items which may or may not be useful to the party (and can at least be sold for cash). Then be sure to follow it with the opportunity for a shopping trip.

Ultimately, what they can/should get in town is up to you. Use common sense. If they're in some podunk little village, they probably won't find a +5 Vorpal Evilbane Ghost Touch Flaming Burst Sword of Ogre Slaying. But they might find a +1 Sword that some traveling warrior left there years ago. By contrast, if they're in a major city, they can pretty much buy most things. Just remind the players that if they spend all their money on that shiny new explosive sword, they're still wearing pigskin armor. Investing heavily in a bow may make the ranger more powerful, but once enemies close ranks, he's defenseless. So let him buy a nicer bow if he wants. But obviously, at level 5, his wealth shouldn't be enough to get him, say, the Bow of the Black Archer or something.

Common sense. Ain't it a thing?

[Dawgmoah]

"Great! You're back from the Sunless Citadel (How is Meepo anyways?) and you want a +1 long sword?"

"Well, I don't have anything like that. But I do know that several months ago the tomb of Clewlow was broken into and her sword and other treasures were looted. That sword was reputed to have been magic..."

"And John the woodcutter found tracks he claimed to have been made by orcs leading away through the cottonwoods south of the cemetary. Might want to go talk to him and see if you can hunt down those orcish grave robbers."

If you feel it is overpowering to have the standard store in town have a collection of magical weapons and gear laying in the back room: at least have subplots and story hooks ready so the party can go get the treasures on their own.

For items that party is desperate for; let them perhaps purchase one or two fo those type items. Like a wand of healing or something if there is no healer in the party.

[Feilith]

Well, what is your party's composition? A Druid/Wizard will be a lot less needy of much magical stuff (outside of wilding clasps or the wizard equivalent) through a lot of the campaign. I ran a group where I played a druid, through 6 levels I got a periapt of wisdom +2, the rogue got +1 chain shirt and a +1 dagger and a master work dagger, the paladin had +1 full plate and a +1 flaming longsword, and the bard got a necklace of fireballs (granted it was cursed, but she still had it and could use all of the pearls). And I'm pretty sure the only thing we bought was the masterwork dagger.

So in a nutshell what I'm getting at is most parties main source of loot is killing stuff, and as a DM it's up to you to give out the loot until higher levels when they can commission someone to craft it for them.

At lv 3 I'd go with dawgmoah's idea and send them out on a small side adventure to get a +1 sword and a +1 Bow along with masterwork armor, because they wont be able to afford +1 gear with what they have now

[crazybob]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it was really helpful and makes a lot of sense. Do most PC's tend to research what types of items they want? Or, as a DM, do I present them with things that I think they would like or help make their character better? At present the situation is the ladder, which is making it a little more difficult I feel as I am trying to gear up all these characters.

I like the story hook idea Dawgmoah to keep the story going. As it stands now, I have a King's diplomat that they have encountered at the very beginning of our campaign (our first ever dnd session) coming thru town with his guards and some travelling tradesmen.

As I said before, we're all fairly brand new, so none of us really know what we currently need or will need. Up to this point I have been trying to tailor the encounters so they will be able to defeat the enemies, but at present no one has any potions or scrolls or wands so we're all relying on the cleric to heal (which he is good at thus far).

[crazybob]

Feilith,

See below for my party's details:

Main group (at almost every game night):
- Half Orc Barbarian
- Elf Ranger
- Gnome Cleric (healing/Good Domain)

Typical Group members:
- Gnome Sorcerer
- Halfling Rogue

Occasional Group Members (have played a couple of times):
- Human Paladin
- Human bard
- half elf fighter

[Red Fel]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it was really helpful and makes a lot of sense. Do most PC's tend to research what types of items they want? Or, as a DM, do I present them with things that I think they would like or help make their character better? At present the situation is the ladder, which is making it a little more difficult I feel as I am trying to gear up all these characters.

It depends on the players. New players might need a little more hand-holding. You could either feed them items directly, or offer them a session break to look at the item lists in PHB and MIC and such. You could even warn them if they make unwise decisions, or advise them on what sorts of items they might need more.

More experienced players might know exactly what they want, and if you try handing them gear that doesn't meet their objectives, they'll likely chuck it at their earliest opportunity in favor of what they're looking for.


I like the story hook idea Dawgmoah to keep the story going. As it stands now, I have a King's diplomat that they have encountered at the very beginning of our campaign (our first ever dnd session) coming thru town with his guards and some travelling tradesmen.

A story-based loot system isn't a bad idea for new players. It gives a more concrete sense of accomplishment when objectives are reached, in the form of tangible rewards. And as a DM, when players know what they want, you should be prepared to offer them the opportunity to achieve it, ideally on their own merits.


As I said before, we're all fairly brand new, so none of us really know what we currently need or will need. Up to this point I have been trying to tailor the encounters so they will be able to defeat the enemies, but at present no one has any potions or scrolls or wands so we're all relying on the cleric to heal (which he is good at thus far).

This enters a tricky area. Obviously, you don't want to make the game overwhelming; but by the same token, you can't keep designing it to be too easy for them. For example, if I was running a campaign with a party consisting solely of Clerics and Paladins, at some point I'd have to give them something other than Evil Outsiders and Undead. Throwing something at them that might be hard (but not too hard) is an effective learning experience for all of you.

Here's another question: Does the Cleric want to be a healbot? Clerics are so much more than just a box of healing, and once you have access to reasonable wands, they can be a very cost-effective means of out-of-combat healing, freeing up the Cleric to unload with some particularly damaging spells. If the Cleric wants to be an avatar of divine fury, rather than simply a walking Band-aid, I'd advise you to offer the party more potions, wands, and scrolls for healing.

I would also advise you to be taking your players aside between sessions and, individually or as a group, asking each one about their objectives, both in terms of building the character and in terms of story. This will allow you to tailor the story so that it keeps their interest, and to advise them on how to improve their characters, both in terms of build and in terms of gear.

For example, say a player has a Fighter and he wants to make him a mobile death-machine. I would advise him to take light or medium armor, a two-handed weapon, and Power Attack, for starters. I would discourage heavy armor, which would limit his mobility, and a shield, which is cute, but hardly productive if your goal is damage output. I would also take out the lists of weapons in PHB, enhancements in MIC, and so forth, and point out some useful ones that might interest him.

As DM, you should try to familiarize yourself with these resources. You don't need to memorize them, but be sure you know they're out there, and have a general idea of what they have to offer. That way, you can point your players in the right direction, and tell them what to look for.

[Hunter Noventa]

Thanks for all the advice everyone, it was really helpful and makes a lot of sense. Do most PC's tend to research what types of items they want? Or, as a DM, do I present them with things that I think they would like or help make their character better? At present the situation is the ladder, which is making it a little more difficult I feel as I am trying to gear up all these characters.

I like the story hook idea Dawgmoah to keep the story going. As it stands now, I have a King's diplomat that they have encountered at the very beginning of our campaign (our first ever dnd session) coming thru town with his guards and some travelling tradesmen.

As I said before, we're all fairly brand new, so none of us really know what we currently need or will need. Up to this point I have been trying to tailor the encounters so they will be able to defeat the enemies, but at present no one has any potions or scrolls or wands so we're all relying on the cleric to heal (which he is good at thus far).

You said that you have the Magic Item Compendium right? Try taking a look at the random treasure generation charts towards the back of that for a level-appropriate encounter, that might give you some idea of some of the treasure that should be available too.

[Subaru Kujo]

You said that you have the Magic Item Compendium right? Try taking a look at the random treasure generation charts towards the back of that for a level-appropriate encounter, that might give you some idea of some of the treasure that should be available too.

And there's nothing to say he can't make a new item up based on the power level of the items there, should he feel like it.

All part of being a DM (that is, using your imagination).

[Diarmuid]

Also of note, there are tables in either the DMG or the MIC for how wealthy a given town/village/city is and what sorts of things it would have for sale.

It might be that the town just after TSC might not even have +1 weapons.

[Feilith]

Feilith,

See below for my party's details:

Main group (at almost every game night):
- Half Orc Barbarian
- Elf Ranger
- Gnome Cleric (healing/Good Domain)

Typical Group members:
- Gnome Sorcerer
- Halfling Rogue

Occasional Group Members (have played a couple of times):
- Human Paladin
- Human bard
- half elf fighter

Well, if i were the DM here I'd send them on a small side quest (assuming you'd given no magical items out up until this point) to save the village from a band of marauding orcs/bandits/whatever that happened upon the village while they were out on their last quest. In this band of mooks, there are maybe (#of party +4) CR-2 mooks with masterwork equipment (3 bows, 2 one handed swords, 2 2handed swords, the rest armor of varying sizes (light,med,heavy)) then 2-3 bosses of party CR with magic weapons maybe an archer and a bastard sword, this way every one gets something and it will nudge them over the xp for the level if they're lagging a bit.

Other things you may want to look for masterwork instrument for your bard, scroll or 2 for your sorcerer and cleric.

Let your party look through DMG and MIC on break times to see what they want, then when you get to +2 or +3 weapons you have an idea what they want to see, but don't always make it what they want, just add it to the loot table, or make it a multiple level quest that ends with them able to have their pick of a kings treasury or a dragons horde.

[crazybob]

Thanks for the help guys, I think I'll have really fancy things to dangle at them to get them thinking more long term (either in a shop or on a guard for the diplomat that they can oggle). And push the consumables a little bit.

I read the DMG again about magic items and creating them and it made a bit more sense this time around having some exposure to the game and everything. Is it a good idea to roll on the treasure tables, then "sell" the items that would be in the loot and create a magical item from the gold? If so, what does a "+1 Enhancement/Bonus" cost? I couldn't find that in the DMG or the MIC.

I mostly wanted to item them up to give them something cool to use, so like a longsword that always has a ice cold blade that deals an addition 1d4(?) damage or something neat like that. Not necessarily something to get them crazy powerful right away, but something fun and different that's not "you picked up a sword/bow/etc." if that makes sense. Something small that's new that would help in some way.

[Feilith]

I mostly wanted to item them up to give them something cool to use, so like a longsword that always has a ice cold blade that deals an addition 1d4(?) damage or something neat like that.

Have one +1 icy long sword or bow drop or be for sale for cheaps, it'll bump one character in the power department and the whole party will benefit

[Subaru Kujo]

Thanks for the help guys, I think I'll have really fancy things to dangle at them to get them thinking more long term (either in a shop or on a guard for the diplomat that they can oggle). And push the consumables a little bit.

I read the DMG again about magic items and creating them and it made a bit more sense this time around having some exposure to the game and everything. Is it a good idea to roll on the treasure tables, then "sell" the items that would be in the loot and create a magical item from the gold? If so, what does a "+1 Enhancement/Bonus" cost? I couldn't find that in the DMG or the MIC.

I mostly wanted to item them up to give them something cool to use, so like a longsword that always has a ice cold blade that deals an addition 1d4(?) damage or something neat like that. Not necessarily something to get them crazy powerful right away, but something fun and different that's not "you picked up a sword/bow/etc." if that makes sense. Something small that's new that would help in some way.
Technical answer:
+1 Weapons cost 2000gp plus the cost of a masterwork weapon itself. Also, the +1 does not take into account the extra things you throw on it (Flaming, Thundering that sort of thing). Most of those costs will be expressed as as +2 or something of the sort. In which case, you add the +2 cost to the original magic weapon cost.

Real answer:
Whatever you say it is. Long as it's consistent, it doesn't really matter.

[mindwarper10]

kinda a mix of what everyone said
pg222 for weapons specifically and pg282 "creating magic items" pg 283 leads you to the players handbook pgs detailing masterwork items.

A good idea is to alter the prices based on the city (as mentioned earlier) and by each seller (some tradesman get items either by finding them, stealing them, or otherwise at an unrealistically low price...thus they can undercut other seller prices with ridiculously low prices.)

also if your like me and you make unusual items you will have to price them yourself (IE I had a ring that prevented the owner from dropping below 5dexterity and maintained a minimum +1 dex to ac bonus. So no matter how much ability drain/damage to dex he had he always had +1ac from dex, and could not drop to 0dex and could not be paralyzed. It was more for flavor sake, but just for the hell of it I threw a villain out that liked to use dexterity draining monsters and powers. Needless to say it came down to this character and his ring versus the villain. It's always nice to make one character gain the role of hero sometimes. As long as everyone gets their fair share.)

[crazybob]

Thanks for all the help guys. I've had chats with most of my players to get a sense of where they want to take their character and have created a few items to help them in their endeavors. Some of which I am going to have as loot on the adventure some of which will be at a store/vendor.

Which has lead me to my next question, how are items in stores presented in your games? Do you/your DM present a list/menu or do you ask what is available? Sorry for all of the questions, thanks again for the support!

[Red Fel]

My experience has usually been along the lines of the "ask and you might receive" line. A particularly organized (or OCD) DM may keep specific lists of available items for every single town and settlement, but in my experience it's more along the lines of: Player: I go to the weapon store.
DM: Okay. It's a small town, so they don't have too much selection.
Player: I want to buy an Elven Courtblade.
DM: ... You're in a small town in dwarven lands. Ain't no Courtblades here.
Player: Hmm... Longsword?
DM: Sure, they've got those.
Player: +5 Flaming Burst Longsword?
DM: Small town. Nope.
Player: ... +1 Longsword?
DM: Sure, why not, let's say some wandering adventurer sold one.
Combination of reasonable requests and common sense. Ask and you might receive.

[Subaru Kujo]

Which has lead me to my next question, how are items in stores presented in your games? Do you/your DM present a list/menu or do you ask what is available? Sorry for all of the questions, thanks again for the support!
As far as shops go, I get reasonable things (a +1 weapon here and there), and then there's this one "Take a look at this ring someone brought in. Ain't it a beaut?" item that is the oddity. Just a note: that item isn't gamebreakingly powerful, but it is a little step above what the norm would be.

[aeauseth]

I believe Oakhurst is the nearby small town (Population: 1,001) in the Sunless Citadel adventure. The DMG has a nice table that discusses the maximum buy/sell values for each settlement size. Pathfinder has a similar table online (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/mastery/settlements.html).

The easy answer is to allow the party to purchase any item in the Players Handbook and Dungeon Masters guide that is 1000 gp or less while in Oakhurst. If you have time you could roll randomly to create a store inventory. This gets complicated as the town becomes larger and you have to keep an inventory list for more than one store. You might allow characters to special order items and then wait 2d4 days before they arrive. It is up to you if you allow items from other source books (such as the Magic Item Compendium).

I would never "Hand Out Items" to the PC's. If you wish to increase the party's wealth the provide more treasure. Ideally the additional treasure would be a +1 sword that a foe uses against the party, or plate mail armor on that memorable boss. Or like a previous poster suggested, create a mini story that sends the party off to find the specific magic item they are looking for.

[Safety Sword]

I have always found that the best way to control magic items is to have them as treasure. And by treasure I don't mean sitting in a chest under the floor boards.

If you can take it from the maniac evil genius and his henchmen, I think you deserve the treasure. I typically "hand out" my first magic weapons at about Level 4 or 5.

Otherwise Masterwork weapons have no place. And they deserve to feel special for a short while too, right? :smallwink:

Also, if items that benefit the (poor) melee players happen to be more prevalent then the casters will be in check for just a little longer. Make sure that the casters are paying the required gold and XP costs of magic items they are creating too. This will somewhat limit how many/how fast they are appearing. After all the intention of the XP cost is to make you really want it (in my opinion).

Then again I tend to be strict on magic mart, it's more fun to make the gathering of treasure part of the adventure and less about the bookkeeping.