Gish Build question, Sorcerer vs Battle Sorcerer

[Yogibear41]

Hey all, I'm working on a gish build for a potential character and so far I have come up with 2 different builds that I am considering. They both end up with 17 BAB however the one that is based off of the Battle Sorcerer gets 18th level casting, while the one based off of Sorcerer only gets to 17th level casting, over 20 levels. In addition the Sorcerer-17 build gets 1 additional feat, that is in away 2 because in the Battle Sorcerer 18 build I have to waste a feat slot on a basically useless feat.


Anyway this is what I am working off of:

Human Half-Red Dragon, Fluffing it as a quadraped that looks like a dragon saying the mother was the dragon because the template never says it has to be a biped.

Build 1

1. Battle Sorcerer, Dragon Tail Dragon Wings
2. BS
3. BS, Skill Focus Diplomacy
4. BS
5. BS
6. Marshal, DragonBreath Improved Dragon Wings
7. BS
8. Spell Sword
9. Eldritch Knight Combat Casting Power Attack
10. Abjurant Champion
11. AC
12. AC Arcane Strike
13. Ac
14. AC
15. EK Rapid Strike
16.EK
17. EK
18. EK Improved Rapid Strike
19. Ek
20. EK


Or this Build

1. Fighter, Dragon Tail Dragon Wings Power Attack
2. Sorcerer
3. Human Paragon Combat Casting
4. Sorcerer
5. Sorcerer
6. Human Paragon Dragon Breath Improved Dragon Wings
7. Human Paragon (ability boost Str)
8. Spellsword
9. Abjurant Champion Arcane Strike
10. AC
11. AC
12. AC, Open Feat Haven't Decided maybe Multiattack
13. AC
14. EK, Bonus Fighter Feat, maybe Imp Toughness or Weapon Focus Claw
15. EK, Rapid Strike
16. EK
17. EK
18. EK Improved Rapid Strike
19. EK
20. EK


Could Potentially take Weapon Focus Claw as 1st level fighter feat would probably be more beneficial than power attack at that level.

Also this is only viable if the DM allows me to take Human paragon as a half-dragon, which considering he looks like a dragon is probably going to be a no.

[Flickerdart]

9th level spells are key to winning 3.5. Having said that, you can ditch Human Paragon to get that 18th level of casting back.

[Yogibear41]

I need away to be able to get 2 feats at level 6 so I can take both Dragon Breath and Improved Dragon wings, at that level without having to delay one of the two.

[Urpriest]

I need away to be able to get 2 feats at level 6 so I can take both Dragon Breath and Improved Dragon wings, at that level without having to delay one of the two.

Why can't you delay one of the two? I didn't follow the thread where you looked for ways to do this, but if you could summarize?

[Yogibear41]

Well, I suppose I could but being able to spam my breath weapon once every 1d4 instead of only once per day, and being able to actually fly using my wings isn't really something I want to delay.

I have already looked at picking out most of my low level spells(actually I have them all picked, but did it rather quickly will post a list at bottom) if I go battle sorcerer, and lesser orb of cold is the only damage spell I took before taking Orb of force as my 2nd level 4th spell known at caster level 11, I had planned to rely heavily on melee and using my breath weapon while flying by or something for things I really don't want to get up close and personal with.

Additionally I have to fit combat casting in somewhere for Abjurant Champion, and by delaying them I delay it which in turn delays things like arcane strike.



This is what I was looking at spell wise if I went Battle Sorcerer instead of normal.Caster Level I get them is in parenthesis


1st level
1. Shield (1) gonna be stuck at level 1 for awhile do to LA figure this + a chain shirt will do wonders to keep me alive
2. Orb of Cold, Lesser (3) (took this over acid because things that are immune to fire (my breath weapon) are generally weak to cold) Except things like outsiders which I doubt I will be fighting that much of at this level.
3. Hoard Gullet or endure elements (5)
4. Grease (7)

2nd
1. Web (4)
2. Rope Trick (7)
3. Wraith Strike (9)
4. Mirror Image (11)

3rd
1. Protection from Energy (6)
2. Invisibility Sphere (9)
3. Haste (11)

4th
1. Stoneshape (8)
2. Orb of Force (11)
3. Dimension Door (13)

5th
1. Teleport (10)
2. Feeblemind (13)
3. Undying Vigor of the DragonLords (15)

6th
1. Haze of Smoldering Stone (12)
2. Primal Speed (15)

7th
1. Bite of the Werebear (14)
2. Limited Wish (17)

8th
1. Otto's Irresistible Dance (16)

9th
1. Time Stop (18)


few of them I picked rather quickly and will probably go back and change especially the 6th level spells. Never actually played a caster before, other than a warlock and a 1 level druid dip so any spell advice would be appreciated, I think I did a decent job of covering all my bases though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Your second build has one too many Sorcerer levels, and you can replace Eldritch Knight with Sacred Exorcist (CD) to get +16 BAB on it. You could also make the character a (Desert (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds)) Kobold with the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) (and Kobold Paragon (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060127a)) and get 18th level spellcasting using Eldritch Knight. It still has one too many Sorcerer levels, you can move everything up one level earlier on it and just have one more level of the last class you take.

Edit: And put the Human Paragon level at 1st level, it gets 4 base skill points!

[Yogibear41]

The reason the 2nd build has 1 too many sorcerer levels is because I need the 2nd level of human paragon to be at level 6 because the feat I want to take using it requires level 6.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

What level are you starting at? If you're using flaws, your flaw feats can show up at any level up to the level you begin play at, as you're only required to take them when creating the character. If you create your character at level 6+, you can put a flaw feat at 6th.

[Yogibear41]

Starting at level 1.

[Chronos]

Battle Sorcerer is, in general, a bad idea, because the benefits become irrelevant once you take a prestige class, but the drawbacks stick with you.

And if you want a breath weapon, just become a Dragonborn of Bahamut, which you can do at any time you choose. Going in as a human, it'll effectively cost you a feat, but you're spending a feat on your breath weapon anyway.