Social Encounter Help?

[20yrslater]

Hey all, I need a bit of help with a few social encounters.

Party Make up is lvl6-7's. Classic build of Rogue, Cleric, Fighter, Wizard.

--Objectives of the party--
- Talk their way into a guarded camp.
- Do some trading without being noticed.
- Make way into guarded tower.
- Rescue a princess who is held in a high tower.
- Escape the tower and camp.

I'm looking for tips on how to roll the possible social encounters they could potentially get into at the gate or at the armor smiths or exiting the camp.


I'm looking for suggestion that could involve more then just a bluff vs sense motive. I want to use spot checks, listen checks.. maybe get some knowledge checks for the players to recall information.

Thanks in advance.

[00dlez]

Intimidate and Diplomacy are just as valid as bluff in these cases and each can be applied to different situations, depending on how the PCs end up ROLE playing the encounters.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Who is guarding the tower, and why are they doing so? Why do the players want to rescue the princess, or why does the princess need to be rescued? What do the players need to trade for? Where is the tower located?

[ArcturusV]

Oddly I think if you don't have a good idea for this already, that you might want to look at the idea of the Skill Challenges from 4th edition. Granted MOST DMs for 4th edition I've seen using them kinda flubbed it and turned the entire thing into "Roll checks 5 times and lets get back to killing things"... but there's a good idea there that just didn't see enough use.

The idea behind it is that you have to have X/Y number of successes, 3 out of 5 or 5 out of 7, etc. What skills apply... up to however the players can justify it. They can roll skills that aren't really related to Success/Failure in order to boost (Or hamper) the ones that do matter. A great benefit as it breaks the game's social encounters from being all about the one guy who actually has social skills and everyone else sitting on their thumbs waiting for something else.

[20yrslater]

They are entering a camp which is ran by the BBEG's henchmen. Some skill challenges might work in some areas.

I have a few ideas:

Talk their way into a guarded camp.
- Bluff vs sense motive conversation, 3 or 4 checks through out the convo
- Guards demand weapons seized, diplomacy conversation

Do some trading without being noticed.
- Challenge: Locating the perfect person to sell items too
- They have a lot of gear to offload but all merchant types are of the opposite faction.

Make way into guarded tower.
- Challenge: Finding the correct tower/location
- Again, Bluff, intimidate, or Diplo conversations
- or fight

Rescue a princess who is held in a high tower.
- Diplomacy checks with princess who refuses to go them
- or knowledge checks on a possibly commanded princess
- Princess flees or calls to guards, challenge: silence princess

Escape the tower and camp.
- Sneak, Hide, move silent
- All out Battle

[urkthegurk]

the problem I have with skill challenges is the checks don't represent anything. Like, you make swim checks every round to cross a rushing river, so if the river is really wide, you'll have to make more checks. But who's to say that the conversation's going to be really long? IMO a particular skill should only be called for once per circumstance. If the circumstances come up more than once per encounter, roll them more than once, but asking a player to roll five times in a row just 'cuz is asinine.

Play out the conversation/negotiation, doing any Bluff/Sense Motive checks as they come up. When one side offers a deal, roll diplomacy, I recommend using the Giant's homebrew for this, since it makes the skill actually make sense.



Talk their way into a guarded camp.
- Bluff vs sense motive conversation, 3 or 4 checks through out the convo
- Guards demand weapons seized, diplomacy conversation


So for this you've got possibly disguise (even without props, the players are trying to pass themselves off as mercenaries or whatever, so they have to act the part). If the PCs fail the disguise, it doesn't immediately give them away, but it moves the gurads reaction to Unfriendly from Indifferent. Relavent modifiers might include +5 (minor details only, they are warriors after all), or +2 (appropriate uniforms, if they take the time to get the costumes they need.)

Then call for a Bluff, then maybe a spot check to see if the guards notice the weapons. The diplomacy check should be rolled once, and can determine whether or not guards think its too risky to let them into the camp armed.

You should also be prepared to have them sneak into the camp, in case they decide to go that route.



Do some trading without being noticed.
- Challenge: Locating the perfect person to sell items too
- They have a lot of gear to offload but all merchant types are of the opposite faction.


Gather Information, with an opposing Spot check, to see if they get noticed. A critical failure, or too many failures in a row, arouses suspicion from the authorities in the camp. You should keep a cooldown-count to track how likely the security in the camp becomes aware of the PCs, progressing from being approached by guards wanting to ask some questions, to full-on red alert. They're behind enemy lines on purpose, keep the pressure on, and make sure they know to be careful.

Once they find the merchants: A Diplomacy check to establish good relations. This should determine how friendly the merchant feels towards the PC, but the merchant doesn't have patience for the PC to really make a lot of small talk, so it should be done as a full-round action instead of one minute, unless the PC can find an excuse to extend the conversation, possibly through a Bluff of Knowledge (local) check. ('Are you related to my friend Gurksy over in Oakendale?' or whatever.)

Then opposed Appraise checks to determine what they know about the merchandise. If the PC thinks of it, they could take 10 on these checks before they bring them in, possibly boosted by Gather Info or Knowledge Local to determine things like current markets for these items, etc. Whoever wins these checks will be assumed to have a better idea of what the thing is worth, unless they both roll so well that they essentially know everything about the item, in which case they're on equal footing.

The merchant may realize that they've snuck into the camp, with a successful Spot check vs Disguise. In which case the merchant might do business with them anyway, but at some point holds an Intimidate over them for a additional 50% discount on their goods.

Now, the haggling. The players take turns making Bluff + (Sense Motive or Appraise, depending on the line of attack) checks to adjust the price of the sale. Make five rolls, adjusting the price up or down 10% each time, so if the merchant suceeds at all the rolls, they pay 50% less than the listed prices, and if the PC wins at all the rolls, they get 50% more.

A merchant is usually very cautious, and won't pay too much for an item unless they believe they've made an accurate appraise check to determine what its worth. If they don't know much about a product, they just won't buy it, and they'll refuse to haggle. They might offer a very low price for it, if the PCs suggest it.



Make way into guarded tower.
- Challenge: Finding the correct tower/location
- Again, Bluff, intimidate, or Diplo conversations
- or fight


You'll need a story option about how they're going to do this, or they won't have a chance of being successful, and they'd be foolish to try. Being PCs, they probably will anyway, and you'll have a TPK on your hands. Enemy armies are nothing to mess around with... or rather, they are, but very carefully.

Options: a relatively high-ranking enemy wants to defect, and has been offered the chance to do so in exchange for aiding in rescuing the princess.

A new warmachine in the enemy camp has just been completed. If the PCs can highjack it, they can ride it out of the camp with the princess in tow.

An allied attack provides cover for the covert commando mission, without this distraction the PCs would never succe




Rescue a princess who is held in a high tower.
- Diplomacy checks with princess who refuses to go them
- or knowledge checks on a possibly commanded princess
- Princess flees or calls to guards, challenge: silence princess


The princess explains that she wasn't really captured, that she came here of her own free will and that she's her own person. She asks the PCs to leave, and if they refuse, she'll happily defend herself, although she surrenders if she takes 25% of her HP in damage. Good PCs will have to wrestle with their alignment status over this, since kidnapping is pretty dispicable. Chaotic individuals who fail the skill challenge against her will take a -2 to attacks against her, since they can't see a really compelling reason to go through with the mission. Even CE folks would probably just want to trash the camp at that point, rather than deal with the hassle of some royal family squabble.

The PCs will have to do something extraordinary here, perhaps swearing fealty to her rather than her father, and pledging to make sure that she gets a say in the nation's politics, instead of just being a pawn to be married.

The princess should be a sorceress or wizard, to make the party really hestitate about attacking her. The party should know about this, having been told before the mission. She can cast Fly and Shout amoung other things.

If you want to get around the tower thing, maybe she goes on rides in the nearby forest from time to time, and a successful Gather Info is enough to find out this and set up an ambush. If someone high-up in the camp is infatuated with her, this isn't too far-fetched.



Escape the tower and camp.
- Sneak, Hide, move silent
- All out Battle
[/quote]

The extraction is the trickiest part, since plenty could have gone wrong by this point. See above for distraction ideas or battle scenarios. One option, if the enemy was planning on allying or marrying her, is hold the princess hostage, and walk out the front gate with her at swordpoint. Or an important member of the enemy's crew could be treated the same way. If the diplomacy goes really well, perhaps the princess could help with getting them out: The PCs could say she's going out for one of her habitual rides, and that they're her armed escourt, to make sure she doesn't escape. (this won't work if the camp is under attack, of course.)

Just my two bits ;)

[20yrslater]

Thanks, this is the type of stuff that I needed to adjust the content I already have!! :)


So for this you've got possibly disguise (even without props, the players are trying to pass themselves off as mercenaries or whatever, so they have to act the part). If the PCs fail the disguise, it doesn't immediately give them away, but it moves the gurads reaction to Unfriendly from Indifferent. Relavent modifiers might include +5 (minor details only, they are warriors after all), or +2 (appropriate uniforms, if they take the time to get the costumes they need.)

Then call for a Bluff, then maybe a spot check to see if the guards notice the weapons. The diplomacy check should be rolled once, and can determine whether or not guards think its too risky to let them into the camp armed.

You should also be prepared to have them sneak into the camp, in case they decide to go that route.


The party has already fought off a few enemy units, acquired their gear and have stated that they will try the disguise route.


Gather Information, with an opposing Spot check, to see if they get noticed. A critical failure, or too many failures in a row, arouses suspicion from the authorities in the camp. You should keep a cooldown-count to track how likely the security in the camp becomes aware of the PCs, progressing from being approached by guards wanting to ask some questions, to full-on red alert. They're behind enemy lines on purpose, keep the pressure on, and make sure they know to be careful.

I had something like this in mind but your statement of a cooldown-count really got my dice rolling in regards to guard movements and such, thanks.


Now, the haggling. The players take turns making Bluff + (Sense Motive or Appraise, depending on the line of attack) checks to adjust the price of the sale. Make five rolls, adjusting the price up or down 10% each time, so if the merchant suceeds at all the rolls, they pay 50% less than the listed prices, and if the PC wins at all the rolls, they get 50% more.


I wouldn't have even thought of the haggling mechanics on this one, but it makes me think... some of the items the party what to sell off are armor of the enemy. If they fail at that, it would definitely draw some attention, so they will have some higher DC's to swindle the merchant with this.


Options: a relatively high-ranking enemy wants to defect, and has been offered the chance to do so in exchange for aiding in rescuing the princess.

The above statement just made me aware of obvious possibilities for the end of the session and opened a few more avenues for the party to take. Much appreciated.

[John Longarrow]

20yrslater,

Let your party work out how they want to approach the front gate, how they want to present themselves, and how much time/effort they are putting into getting this all looking right to begin with.

If the party tosses on uniforms but doesn't recognize/can't identify rank/unit symbols, they have a big problem. If they decide to present themselves as an officer with retinue, they'd better work out ahead of time everyone's cover story AND speak the right languages.

If the players spend half an hour putting together the bare bones of a plot and roll with it, expect the rescue to go to pieces almost immediately. If they plan it out, work out the details, and have a good enough reason to be taken as legit (Read "I'm Captain Raver escorting his lordships inspector, get the doors open NOW!") you should have a pretty easy time adjudicating things.

Dealing with a merchant, especially if they want to sell the armies stuff back to it, should be a problem. After all, why would a merchant purchase the gear the army they are traveling with issues? That's just asking for trouble. If they have gear that isn't connected with the army, that should be OK to barter, so long as their cover would.

[urkthegurk]

Thanks, this is the type of stuff that I needed to adjust the content I already have!! :)

No problem :)



I had something like this in mind but your statement of a cooldown-count really got my dice rolling in regards to guard movements and such, thanks.


My only other advice is to try not to let the PCs know how the cooldown works, and don't ever set it back to zero... guards might stop actively snooping for the PCs, but if it gets back to the unit commander or anybody half-intelligent, they're not going to space out and go back to normal in the same way that a computer game would. That said, its a good way to model enemy activity.