The Crimson Mantle

[Narren]

I'm sure this was answered somewhere, but I can't remember seeing it. I know that Redcloak gets his longevity and much of his power from the Crimson Mantle, but how dies that work? Does he have to be wearing it to gain it's benefits? Or are those powers just imparted on him now?

[Sunken Valley]

Unknown. He never takes it off. Certainly, it won't affect his spellcasting. He'll still be able to use his spells.

[Benthesquid]

Best guess- Redcloak has levels in the Prestige Class- Bearer of the Red Mantle.

[Reathin]

As far as I can recall, the artifact's only listed abilities are as follows:

1) Wearer is either rendered ageless or extremely long lived, likely the former.
2) If wearer is the High Priest of the Dark One, they get the Divine half of the Gate Manipulation ritual implanted into their mind.
3) Immunity to disease (see Start of Darkness)
4) They look extremely stylish.

I don't think he gets any spellcasting ability from it. That's all Redcloak, not THE red cloak :smallamused:

That's only in reference to "getting power from it". It's almost certain that he has to wear the thing to gain its effects, same as the vast majority of magical items, artifacts included.

[Mammal]

Well, immediately after putting it on in SoD, he's able to cast a spell he couldn't before. I don't remember exactly what spell it was, but it was implied that it was a higher level spell than anything he'd cast before. From my recollection of it, he went from level one to at least level five or six immediately after putting it on.

What I want to know is what happens when he takes it off. I'm pretty he's already exceeded his natural lifespan by a few years. If he takes it off, is he going to age rapidly until his physical age matches his chronological age, or is the Mantle effectively a pause button, and he'll just pick up where he left off, so to speak? From my reading of SoD he was the Goblin equivalent of 17-20 when he put it on, and would now be 80-90, had he aged normally.

[Kish]

Well, immediately after putting it on in SoD, he's able to cast a spell he couldn't before.
Smite is not a spell.

Neither Redcloak's level, nor proto-Redcloak's, is ever spelled out in Start of Darkness--beyond that, at one point, he mentions that he cannot yet cast Heal.

[Werbaer]

2) If wearer is the High Priest of the Dark One, they get the Divine half of the Gate Manipulation ritual implanted into their mind.
He also gains knowledge of the arcane half of the ritual (Redcloak has written down the arcane half to give it to Xykon, but he himself knew both halves)

[JSSheridan]

There's a fairly good chance it brainwashes the wearer if they are a cleric of the dark one. At the minimum, it's a forced, massive info dump into the cleric's brain resulting in an epiphany.


He's not wearing it in 149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html) so he apparently doesn't age back to his real age without it.

Good point.

I'd say it binds to the wearer's soul. That soul cannot rest until the mantle been passed to another CotDO.

[facw]

He's not wearing it in 149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html) so he apparently doesn't age back to his real age without it.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Smite is not a spell.

Neither Redcloak's level, nor proto-Redcloak's, is ever spelled out in Start of Darkness--beyond that, at one point, he mentions that he cannot yet cast Heal.

We know at some point in the book he leveled up enough to cast Regeneration, since he offered to fix his brother's eye at one point and was refused. See the round outside Dorukan's Dungeon.

[JCAll]

He's not wearing it in 149 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0149.html) so he apparently doesn't age back to his real age without it.
Of course we don't know what would happen if the Mantle were destroyed.

[prism6691]

Smite is not a spell.



I had actually assumed it was a version of holy smite. (obviously with the holy part gone and targets reversed)

[Ceaon]

Smite is Redcloak's domain power, which means he had it before donning the cloak.


Destruction Domain
Granted Power: You gain the smite power, the supernatural ability to make a single melee attack with a +4 bonus on attack rolls and a bonus on damage rolls equal to your cleric level (if you hit). You must declare the smite before making the attack. This ability is usable once per day.

[factotum]

Smite is Redcloak's domain power, which means he had it before donning the cloak.

Not necessarily--his domains might have changed when he donned the Cloak. There's certainly an implication that he'd never used Smite before in the SoD scene where he uses it.

As for the whole "gaining levels while wearing the cloak" thing, I think that would go against the agreement all the Gods have to only exert their power through their Earthly cleric representatives. It's also notable that Redcloak is at least 9th level without the cloak, because he casts Slay Living in the #149 strip which has already been linked.

[KillianHawkeye]

Not necessarily--his domains might have changed when he donned the Cloak. There's certainly an implication that he'd never used Smite before in the SoD scene where he uses it.

I don't think that was implied at all. He mentions that he can't do it again that day, but that is all.

[coineineagh]

I don't think he gets any spellcasting ability from it. That's all Redcloak, not THE red cloak :smallamused:
But Redcloak IS the one and only.:smalltongue:
THE Redcloak.

I'd agree that it's probably akin to a prestige class, although there would be some obscure rules explaining that he can't be separated from it for too long, if he still wants to retain all the bonuses. It would only come into play if he were to actually lose it, which isn't a likely occurrence at the moment.

[AKA_Bait]

But Redcloak IS the one and only.:smalltongue:
THE Redcloak.

Redcloak isn't either his artifact associated title, bearer of the Crimson Mantle (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0369.html), or even his real name though.

I think it's most likely just an artifact. There's no need, mechanically, for it to have any associated prestige class or the like to do what it does. I also haven't seen any example of a power Redcloak has used that could not be done by a cleric of his level without the cloak.

[Coat]

I read SoD as Redcloak starting as a lvl 1 or maybe lvl 3 cleric, and getting a massive dump of XP when he donned the mantle the first time - enough to boost him straight up to Level 9 or so in a shot.

There's certainly no evidence for that, although the

LEARN

is consistent.

That also seemed to come with a set of, shall we say 'fixed' ideas about priorities.

[F.Harr]

I think the arcane half of the ritual was also dumped into this brain. He just can't DO it. But he CAN transcribe it for Xykon. Or another chap if he needs to.

[NihhusHuotAliro]

So, when he takes it off, he doesn't suddenly age to his real age; but I think if he went too long without wearing it, he would suddenly age to his real age.

IF he kept all the effects of the Crimson Mantle without wearing it; then why wear it? Why wear it into battle; where it could get damaged? Why not hide it as well as possible so it could never be destroyed or taken from you?

Also, the Crimson Mantle makes you a target for the Sapphire Guild. If you could get the effects by owning it and then taking it off and hiding it; why not do so and avoid making yourself a target like that?

Probably you can only spend a limited time outside of it before its effects wear off and then suddenly all the years hit you like a ton of bricks.

And, probably, if Jirix was to put on the Red Cloak while Redcloak was, say, taking a shower; and if Jirix was to become the bearer, Jirix would get the effects of the Crimson Mantle and Redcloack would get hit by all the years. Probably only one can be the bearer at the time.

[ti'esar]

Why wear it into battle; where it could get damaged? Why not hide it as well as possible so it could never be destroyed or taken from you?

The Mantle is an artifact - I think a major artifact, although I can't remember if this was ever explicitly stated. There's very few things that could destroy it - notice, for instance, that the Sapphire Guard never seems to have tried to do so.

[KillianHawkeye]

The Mantle is an artifact - I think a major artifact, although I can't remember if this was ever explicitly stated. There's very few things that could destroy it - notice, for instance, that the Sapphire Guard never seems to have tried to do so.

The Sapphire Guard doesn't seem to be aware of its importance as anything other than an easy way to see which goblin is in charge.

[factotum]

IF he kept all the effects of the Crimson Mantle without wearing it; then why wear it? Why wear it into battle; where it could get damaged? Why not hide it as well as possible so it could never be destroyed or taken from you?


a) Because it's a badge of rank, essentially, showing that you're the representative of the Dark One on Earth--that's important when you're trying to impress other goblins.

b) Presumably he doesn't keep the Mantle's anti-aging properties when he's not wearing it, so he would eventually grow old and die without it, even if that takes years. Redcloak's in it for the long game, he doesn't want to die of old age before he sees the Plan succeed.

c) If you're hiding it elsewhere, by definition you're not able to protect it personally. Why do you think Xykon just went to a massive amount of trouble to set up an astral fortress to hide his phylactery in?

d) Finally, it might be an instruction from the Dark One--do not take this off unless you absolutely have to.

[Bulldog Psion]

The Sapphire Guard doesn't seem to be aware of its importance as anything other than an easy way to see which goblin is in charge.

Explicit references to "the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle" suggest otherwise.

[Tryfan]

Explicit references to "the Bearer of the Crimson Mantle" suggest otherwise.

Giant's words on the matter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12521960#post12521960).

Explicit references to 'the bearer of the crimson mantle' means that the palidins know that the guy that wants to destroy reality gets to wear a red cloak - the palidins don't know its power.

[rodneyAnonymous]

So, when he takes it off, he doesn't suddenly age to his real age; but I think if he went too long without wearing it, he would suddenly age to his real age.

I think it is more likely that he starts aging the moment he takes off the Crimson Mantle, and would immediately stop if he put it on again. Maybe instead the effect would take time to fade, but no sudden aging.

[AKA_Bait]

Giant's words on the matter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12521960#post12521960).

Explicit references to 'the bearer of the crimson mantle' means that the palidins know that the guy that wants to destroy reality gets to wear a red cloak - the palidins don't know its power.

Specifically, the paladin's don't know that it is an artifact. From the paladin's perspective, it's kind of like a Cardinal's hat. It broadly signifies the office and agenda of the wearer and is socially important, but it doesn't appear to have any particularly high intrinsic or retail value.

[Roland Itiative]

So, when he takes it off, he doesn't suddenly age to his real age; but I think if he went too long without wearing it, he would suddenly age to his real age.

IF he kept all the effects of the Crimson Mantle without wearing it; then why wear it? Why wear it into battle; where it could get damaged? Why not hide it as well as possible so it could never be destroyed or taken from you?

Also, the Crimson Mantle makes you a target for the Sapphire Guild. If you could get the effects by owning it and then taking it off and hiding it; why not do so and avoid making yourself a target like that?

Probably you can only spend a limited time outside of it before its effects wear off and then suddenly all the years hit you like a ton of bricks.

And, probably, if Jirix was to put on the Red Cloak while Redcloak was, say, taking a shower; and if Jirix was to become the bearer, Jirix would get the effects of the Crimson Mantle and Redcloack would get hit by all the years. Probably only one can be the bearer at the time.

Hiding it would be a huge offence to his deity. And the Dark One probably can revoke the properties of the mantle whenever he feels like.

Also, I don't think being the "bearer of the Crimson Mantle" requires only that one wears it while being a cleric of the Dark One and member of a goblinoid race. The mantle probably can have only one bearer at a time, and only chooses a new one upon death. So, even while not wearing the mantle, RC is still the "bearer".

[F.Harr]

So, when he takes it off, he doesn't suddenly age to his real age; but I think if he went too long without wearing it, he would suddenly age to his real age.

IF he kept all the effects of the Crimson Mantle without wearing it; then why wear it? Why wear it into battle; where it could get damaged? Why not hide it as well as possible so it could never be destroyed or taken from you?

Also, the Crimson Mantle makes you a target for the Sapphire Guild. If you could get the effects by owning it and then taking it off and hiding it; why not do so and avoid making yourself a target like that?

Probably you can only spend a limited time outside of it before its effects wear off and then suddenly all the years hit you like a ton of bricks.

And, probably, if Jirix was to put on the Red Cloak while Redcloak was, say, taking a shower; and if Jirix was to become the bearer, Jirix would get the effects of the Crimson Mantle and Redcloack would get hit by all the years. Probably only one can be the bearer at the time.


Hiding it would be a huge offence to his deity. And the Dark One probably can revoke the properties of the mantle whenever he feels like.

Also, I don't think being the "bearer of the Crimson Mantle" requires only that one wears it while being a cleric of the Dark One and member of a goblinoid race. The mantle probably can have only one bearer at a time, and only chooses a new one upon death. So, even while not wearing the mantle, RC is still the "bearer".

And, most importantly, you can't look snazzy if you're not wearing the cloak.

[goodyarn]

As far as I can recall, the artifact's only listed abilities are as follows:

1) Wearer is either rendered ageless or extremely long lived, likely the former.
2) If wearer is the High Priest of the Dark One, they get the Divine half of the Gate Manipulation ritual implanted into their mind.
3) Immunity to disease (see Start of Darkness)
4) They look extremely stylish.

5) You are metaphorically covered in the blood of the innocents you have sacrificed to the Dark One's plan. (Ignore this ability if you have not sacrificed any innocents to the Dark One's plan.)

[NihhusHuotAliro]

And, most importantly, you can't look snazzy if you're not wearing the cloak.

Alright, you've convinced me.

Yeah, wear that cloak at all possible times.

[Shred-Bot]

5) You are metaphorically covered in the blood of the innocents you have sacrificed to the Dark One's plan. (Ignore this ability if you have not sacrificed any innocents to the Dark One's plan.)

5a) (if no innocents have been sacrificed) You receive a telepathic message every hour, stating "Come on! Sacrifice some innocents already! We can't have a complicated deific blackmail plan without some innocents being sacrificed! What, you think they're just going to up and sacrifice THEMSELVES? That's not how this works, pal." until the sacrifice of innocents commences.

[A Tad Insane]

I think it gave him a big chunk of exp when he first put it on, considering the flashing effects and how mentally frazzled he was when he put it on the first time.