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View Full Version : A Couple of Questions for Bards



Gale
2013-10-16, 05:59 PM
In the campaign I'm currently playing in I'm a Bard (level 7) and I was looking for ways to make myself better in combat. I kept seeing people mention the Snowflake Wardance feat (Frostburn) as if it was amazing. But as far as I know it only allows you to add your charisma modifier to your attack rolls, not damage rolls. It seems like kind of a superfluous skill since I already have a +4 bonus to attack rolls from Inspire Courage. Am I missing something here? Is there a seriously good reason to take this?
Also, I was considering getting an Amber Amulet of Vermin in order to summon a giant bee in case I needed to fly for some reason. (I'm a gnome.) However, in a previous campaign I played when I used Summon Monster to get a giant bee and attempted to ride it my DM simply told me I couldn't. I don't remember his excuse as for why I couldn't though. I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rules behind riding monsters and maybe help me construct an argument as to why I should be able to ride one in order to convince him.

Cog
2013-10-16, 06:09 PM
It seems like kind of a superfluous skill since I already have a +4 bonus to attack rolls from Inspire Courage. Am I missing something here?
It's not so good when you have +4 to attack from Inspire Courage, but it's much nicer when you instead have +4d6 to damage from Dragonfire Inspiration.

Diarmuid
2013-10-16, 06:20 PM
Or if you're wielding a 2h weapon and power attack your BAB away with impunity

CombatOwl
2013-10-16, 06:28 PM
In the campaign I'm currently playing in I'm a Bard (level 7) and I was looking for ways to make myself better in combat. I kept seeing people mention the Snowflake Wardance feat (Frostburn) as if it was amazing. But as far as I know it only allows you to add your charisma modifier to your attack rolls, not damage rolls. It seems like kind of a superfluous skill since I already have a +4 bonus to attack rolls from Inspire Courage.

They stack. In addition to what others have mentioned, it also makes it less painful to multiclass since the BAB reduction doesn't hurt as badly. There is a lot of bard-related PrC cheese that requires a fair amount of dipping, Snowflake Wardance helps deal with the consequences of that.


Also, I was considering getting an Amber Amulet of Vermin in order to summon a giant bee in case I needed to fly for some reason. (I'm a gnome.) However, in a previous campaign I played when I used Summon Monster to get a giant bee and attempted to ride it my DM simply told me I couldn't. I don't remember his excuse as for why I couldn't though. I would appreciate it if someone could explain to me the rules behind riding monsters and maybe help me construct an argument as to why I should be able to ride one in order to convince him.

You can ride pretty much anything into combat, but if it's not combat trained you have to make a lot of ride checks.

Equinox
2013-10-16, 06:39 PM
From the Ride skill:

DC 20 - Control Mount in Battle
As a move action, you can attempt to control a light horse, pony, heavy horse, or other mount not trained for combat riding while in battle. If you fail the Ride check, you can do nothing else in that round
The bee is definitely not trained for combat riding, so this applies. Let's continue ...


Special
If you are riding bareback, you take a -5 penalty on Ride checks.

The bee does not come equipped with a saddle, so this applies too.

Welcome to the world of "DC 25 Ride check, or do nothing else that round"

Gale
2013-10-16, 06:54 PM
I suppose riding a giant bee around is out of the question then; and it sounded so fun too. Thanks, though.
I was also considering taking the Dragon Inspiration feat but that comes with the prerequisite of having the Dragon subtype which as a normal ole gnome I clearly don't have. Is there an easy way to get this besides taking the Dragontouched feat. I would rather not take another feat just to use it. Although, I'm not completely against it.

Kennisiou
2013-10-16, 07:01 PM
Inspire courage is pretty solid on bards, so you don't need to spec away from it necessarily. You can take Song of the Heart (everron campaign setting) (gives +1 to all of your "inspire" bardic music effects) and Words of Creation (lots of effects that benefit bardic music, but most importantly doubles the power of inspire courage) to stack your inspire courage up to be pretty massive. If you get both feats by level 12, that's +6 inspire courage for you, going up to +8 when you hit level 14.

Darrin
2013-10-16, 07:52 PM
I consider Snowflake Wardance to be a bit of a trap, but I don't think I'm with the majority opinion on this in this particular forum. It gives you no bonus on damage, and locks you out of the combat style with the best damage output (two-handed). Arcane Strike is a much better option for bards: attack bonus and Xd4 damage. And you can keep pumping spell levels into the damage if you really need an Alpha Strike.

Dragonfire Inspiration gives you the best damage output, but it takes some planning to optimize your Inspire Courage. If you need the Dragonblood subtype but didn't get it at Chargen, you can use the Ritual of Rebirth to become a Dragonborn of Bahumat, or you can dip one level of Dragonfire Adept and get Dragontouched that way.

holywhippet
2013-10-16, 08:53 PM
You could go a different route and grab some levels in the sublime chord PrC. It lets you learn level 4-9 sorcerer spells.

Talya
2013-10-16, 09:49 PM
I consider Snowflake Wardance to be a bit of a trap, but I don't think I'm with the majority opinion on this in this particular forum. It gives you no bonus on damage, and locks you out of the combat style with the best damage output (two-handed).

Minor quibble: if you have a bard in the party (or are a bard), it's very likely that, unless you're in a charger build, the most damage output you'll get in melee is with two weapon fighting. (Bonus damage is your friend.)

Of course, Snowflake Wardance locks you out of that too.

Snowflake Wardance serves the purpose of making you competent in melee despite lowish BAB, no strength, and no weapon finesse because you prioritized charisma above all else, like you should. It is not there to make you into a melee monster.

(Note that the exception exists if you're playing a bardadin, where snowflake wardance serves the purpose of allowing you to completely use all your BAB on power attack and still hit with all your iteratives, and since you're also getting charisma to damage from divine might, this is probably better than getting the two handed damage bonus.)

Equinox
2013-10-16, 10:09 PM
There's a spell, Inspirational Boost, cast as a swift action, that gives you +1 to Inspire Courage if you initiate it this round.

By level 8, it's possible to have:
+2 base Inspire Courage
+1 Song of the Heart
+1 Inspirational Boost
Doubled for Words of Creation

Total +8 ....

Talya
2013-10-16, 10:22 PM
There's a spell, Inspirational Boost, cast as a swift action, that gives you +1 to Inspire Courage if you initiate it this round.

By level 8, it's possible to have:
+2 base Inspire Courage
+1 Song of the Heart
+1 Inspirational Boost
Doubled for Words of Creation

Total +8 ....

+1 badge of valor activated on the next round immediately after finishing your turn. If you can swing a vest of legends by then significantly more.