Gaining power attack without a 13 STR

[Mountain]

I'm currently running a Psion (Telepath), and he just acquired the metamorphosis power through the expanded knowledge feat to improve his versatility (especially when fighting things he can't mind-control.)

The problem, is that while offensive precognition can give him an excellent to-hit bonus, his damage is severely limited.

I'm looking for any ways of using power attack without having a 13 strength, or just increasing damage in general. All 3.5 non-setting-specific books are legal, as well as FR books.
He is level 15. Stats, after magic items, are:
STR: 10
DEX: 20
CON: 10
INT: 27
WIS: 14
CHA: 14

Feats are: Psicrystal Affinity (+2 initiative), Able Learner, Martial Study (Cloak of Deception), Martial Stance (Child of Shadow), Improved Initiative, Overchannel, Psionic Endowment, Greater Psionic Endowment, Expanded Knowledge (metamorphosis), One undecided (He just levelled.)

All suggestions are welcome.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Several of the Bite of the Werecreature spells in Spell Compendium grant Power Attack for their duration. You could use the spell-to-power variant to learn them as psionic powers.

[Mountain]

Several of the Bite of the Werecreature spells in Spell Compendium grant Power Attack for their duration. You could use the spell-to-power variant to learn them as psionic powers.

That's a fantastic idea. Having just levelled, there are vacancies on his powers known list.

[Aliek]

You could dip into monk with that Dragon Magazine ACF to pick fighter bonus feat with no prerequisites, the implications may be a bit cheesy(weapon supremacy at level 1? yes, please) but for power attack it seems kinda RAI and might pass by your DM. Not like it'll break your game too.

Problem is, Dragon material...


Edit: Name's Martial Monk from Dragon #310

[Kazyan]

You could dip into monk with that Dragon Magazine ACF to pick fighter bonus feat with no prerequisites, the implications may be a bit cheesy(weapon supremacy at level 1? yes, please) but for power attack it seems kinda RAI and might pass by your DM. Not like it'll break your game too.

Problem is, Dragon material...

The Overwhelming Attack monk variant in Unearthed Arcana grant PA at level 1 that without needing to spank the rules and tell them to sit in a corner.

[Mountain]

I would prefer to avoid losing any ML, as that limits the effectiveness of most of my powers (HD for metamorphosis, extra targets for dominate, etc.)

As far as worrying about breaking the game, there's a cleric\malconvoker who can cast Summon Monster 2-3 times per round with some unholy combination of feats; a wizard\beguiler\ultimate magus that loves split, empowered, ocular enervation; and a very optimized shadow-pouncing rogue.

Despite that, Dragon Magazine material is out.

[Harrow]

If you're level 15 is a +4 strength item really that hard to get? :smallconfused:

Or, is that strength when you already have a +strength item :smalleek:

Pay for a casting of PAO into something with appropriate strength?

[Aliek]

Well, there's always practiced manifester, and the overwhelming strike variant from UA(I knew there was something in that book :smalltongue:)

You could also use a +4 item(Or cast animal affinity) and a wand of heroics, that shouldn't be too hard.

[Mountain]

An item can't qualify a character for a feat. The character's natural strength is a 10. (If a character has a score below 10, the DM uses it to every possible disadvantage, because he hates scores below 10 for some reason.)

Anyway, that's the whole point of the thread. I wanted power attack, or something equivalent, without meeting the prerequisites.

[weckar]

While technically true that an item can't get you to qualify, it can get you to use a feat you don't qualify for anymore. If you can get your natural STR up temporarily, and then take the feat, it should all be perfectly OK.

[TuggyNE]

An item can't qualify a character for a feat.


While technically true that an item can't get you to qualify, it can get you to use a feat you don't qualify for anymore.

Citation? (Not that it matters if your DM rules this way, but I'm curious about the rules basis for this.)

[weckar]

Time to do some book digging, but I'm quite sure on this one.

30ft Burrow, AWAY!!!!

[Andezzar]

If you have STR 13 (no matter if natural, through items or abilities) at level up you can take power attack. The problem is making sure that an ability is active when leveling up.

The Monk Style overwhelming assault does not help unless you somehow acquire STR 13. While the feats may be selected without fulfilling the prerequisites, a character is stiull unable to use it, if he does not fulfill them:
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he or she gains the prerequisite.

A character can’t use a feat if he or she has lost a prerequisite.

[Seffbasilisk]

My first thought was Bloodline levels.

Power attack is a pretty common benny with them. Giants, Ogre, Titan, Demon, Earth and Water elementals, a few dragons as well.

It'd increase manifester level, but getting it this late in the game would be sidequest worthy.

[Skevvix]

If you have STR 13 (no matter if natural, through items or abilities) at level up you can take power attack. The problem is making sure that an ability is active when leveling up.

The Monk Style overwhelming assault does not help unless you somehow acquire STR 13. While the feats may be selected without fulfilling the prerequisites, a character is stiull unable to use it, if he does not fulfill them:

So you're saying monks can't get the +4 to trips unless they have combat expertise then? Pretty sure that's wrong.

[Andezzar]

So you're saying monks can't get the +4 to trips unless they have combat expertise then? Pretty sure that's wrong.The writers most likely did not intend it to work that way, but that is exactly what the rules say:
A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.This rule changes nothing about the rules for using a feat that I quoted earlier.

[Skevvix]

The writers most likely did not intend it to work that way, but that is exactly what the rules say:This rule changes nothing about the rules for using a feat that I quoted earlier.

Except that specific trumps general. In general when you lose the pre-reqs of a feat you lose the benefits, but specifically a monk does not need to meet the pre-reqs...

[Andezzar]

Did you read my quotation? The need to fulfill prerequisites is only waived for the selection of the feat not for its use. The general rule requires the fulfillment of the prerequisites both for selection and for use. So nothing specific trumps the general.

[questionmark693]

Doesn't work. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#prerequisites)

[Emperor Tippy]

An item can't qualify a character for a feat. The character's natural strength is a 10. (If a character has a score below 10, the DM uses it to every possible disadvantage, because he hates scores below 10 for some reason.)

Anyway, that's the whole point of the thread. I wanted power attack, or something equivalent, without meeting the prerequisites.

That isn't actually what the rule say. You can qualify for a feat with items, spells, or anything else so long as you meet the prerequisites at the moment you take the feat and every time you want to use the feat.

If you want to totally ignore the prerequisites then you want Martial Monk.

[Chronos]

This won't help you, since you don't want to lose ML, and since Dragon is disallowed, but Dragon 326 has some alternate combat styles for ranger, including the Strong-Arm style which grants Power Attack at level 2.

[Andezzar]

Does it say you needn't fulfill the prerequisites to use the feat? The PHB Ranger only says that upon selecting a combat style he counts as having certain feats at certain levels (basically the same thing as the monk). The class feature does not waive the prerequisites for using the feat, but imposes an additional limitation of not allowing armor heavier than light.

[Rebel7284]

Both Heroics and Mirror Move are low level spells that allow you to pick up power attack if you can't get your DM to agree to a psionic bite of the werebear.

[Andezzar]

Neither Heroics nor Mirror Move (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) work without a boost to STR. Both require all prerequisites to be fulfilled.

[Segev]

Neither Heroics nor Mirror Move (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20000901a) work without a boost to STR. Both require all prerequisites to be fulfilled.

Yes, but meeting the prereqs with magic items is fully kosher there. Bull's Strength or a +str item could do it.

[Andezzar]

As is on level up.

[Fax Celestis]

Have you tried just asking your DM to bend the prerequisite?

Alternatively, have you asked about a psionic version of Arcane Strike?

[Harrow]

Have you tried just asking your DM to bend the prerequisite?

You know, now that I think about it I'm not sure I like the prerequisite on Power Attack. Only people who are 'so' strong can trade accuracy for power? That doesn't even seem like something you should need a feat to do at all, it's something most people, especially anyone with any amount of martial training, should be able to do. But, then again, I feel that way about a lot of Fighter Feats, especially those out of the PHB.

[Fax Celestis]

You know, now that I think about it I'm not sure I like the prerequisite on Power Attack. Only people who are 'so' strong can trade accuracy for power? That doesn't even seem like something you should need a feat to do at all, it's something most people, especially anyone with any amount of martial training, should be able to do. But, then again, I feel that way about a lot of Fighter Feats, especially those out of the PHB.

Agreed. I don't like ability score prerequisites, racial prerequisites, or religion prerequisites: by and large, there's no excuse for a certain kind of tactic to be restricted to a particular faith, race, or ability, exempting things like Extra Shifter Trait (which is exclusive to shifters). But something like Spiked Destroyer (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/spiked-destroyer-combat) or Squash Flat (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/squash-flat) has no business being religion-locked.

[Mountain]

Regardless of whether it should have prerequisites or not, that certainly isn't going to change this late in the campaign (or probably ever.)

I like the Bite of the Werebear option, but if that doesn't fly, I doubt a monk level would be worthwhile. Metamorphosis is a backup tactic, and I don't like the idea of further limiting the powers known list, even if practiced manifester can keep ML up.

Manifesting a Psionic Bite of the Werebear inside a Temporal Acceleration and letting Schism take care of smaller buffs could allow a full attack every round.

The only other idea I had was to look for a magic item that would grant the benefits of PA, (like the gloves that grant TWF,) that he could add on to his gloves of DEX.