Help with making a meatshield (Bullrush Barbarian?)

[Iryanmadayana]

Hello everyone. Even though I've been a fan of the comic for a while, I was only recently persuaded by an internet friend to actually try out dnd myself. While I am not entirely new to tabletop gaming (I played a completely different system a few years ago), I seem to have some trouble with bringing my character idea to life mechanically and would like to ask for help or suggestions to this end. :smallredface:

As for my character concept thus far:
The group was lacking both a beefy melee combatant as well as a divine caster, and it was also lacking in nature savvy people (though another player is making a scout now, so yeah). Since I have always been a fan of nature mages in games like this, my idea was to make Barbarian/Druid multiclass character. Plus, I've always liked reptilian races, so he is a Lizardfolk (the game is going to start with ECL 3, so no problem there). Setting aside backstory etc for a moment, mechanically I don't intend to use wildshape for combat, nor to use too cheesy possible druid spells. I want the character to be more of a tribal, shamanistic/nature-connected melee warrior, using his spells mostly for healing, buffs, and nature related utility (endure elements, calm animals, that sort of thing). So I guess a bit like a tribal nature-paladin? Anyways...

Now, the problem. As I said, I want to act as the beef of the party, engaging in melee combat and protecting my allies. I guess you could call it tanking, heh. Well, I was not entirely sure how to accomplish this. The closest idea I have had so far (and it would be pretty cool if only it worked) would be to make the character fairly mobile and have him bullrush anyone who attempts to get in the party squishy's face. The problem with that, of course, is that bullrushing in and on itself seems to be not a very effective tactic. Aside from not actually dealing damage when doing that, you can't really push enemies away by much, unless maybe if they are smaller than you. And even then, all that happens is that you get an attack of opportunity when they move in on the squishies again with their next action. Huge+ enemies can't even be moved at all, no matter how awesome that would be (unless I become enlarged, but that is not a druid spell...). So unless I find some awesome feats or something that greatly improve bullrushing, this idea seems to be just generally impractical. The closest thing I found would be substitution levels in Fangshield Barbarian, but the knockback attack that one lets you execute only works on creatures at least one size category smaller than yourself... :smallfrown:

So yeah, that is my problem. Any suggestions for how to make a barb/druid into a functional meatshield/protector/tank (preferrably of the mobile variety, and here preferrably through pushing people around) would be greatly appreciated.

[Red Fel]

Hello everyone. Even though I've been a fan of the comic for a while, I was only recently persuaded by an internet friend to actually try out dnd myself. While I am not entirely new to tabletop gaming (I played a completely different system a few years ago), I seem to have some trouble with bringing my character idea to life mechanically and would like to ask for help or suggestions to this end. :smallredface:

As for my character concept thus far:
The group was lacking both a beefy melee combatant as well as a divine caster, and it was also lacking in nature savvy people (though another player is making a scout now, so yeah). Since I have always been a fan of nature mages in games like this, my idea was to make Barbarian/Druid multiclass character. Plus, I've always liked reptilian races, so he is a Lizardfolk (the game is going to start with ECL 3, so no problem there). Setting aside backstory etc for a moment, mechanically I don't intend to use wildshape for combat, nor to use too cheesy possible druid spells. I want the character to be more of a tribal, shamanistic/nature-connected melee warrior, using his spells mostly for healing, buffs, and nature related utility (endure elements, calm animals, that sort of thing). So I guess a bit like a tribal nature-paladin? Anyways...

Now, the problem. As I said, I want to act as the beef of the party, engaging in melee combat and protecting my allies. I guess you could call it tanking, heh. Well, I was not entirely sure how to accomplish this. The closest idea I have had so far (and it would be pretty cool if only it worked) would be to make the character fairly mobile and have him bullrush anyone who attempts to get in the party squishy's face. The problem with that, of course, is that bullrushing in and on itself seems to be not a very effective tactic. Aside from not actually dealing damage when doing that, you can't really push enemies away by much, unless maybe if they are smaller than you. And even then, all that happens is that you get an attack of opportunity when they move in on the squishies again with their next action. Huge+ enemies can't even be moved at all, no matter how awesome that would be (unless I become enlarged, but that is not a druid spell...). So unless I find some awesome feats or something that greatly improve bullrushing, this idea seems to be just generally impractical. The closest thing I found would be substitution levels in Fangshield Barbarian, but the knockback attack that one lets you execute only works on creatures at least one size category smaller than yourself... :smallfrown:

So yeah, that is my problem. Any suggestions for how to make a barb/druid into a functional meatshield/protector/tank (preferrably of the mobile variety, and here preferrably through pushing people around) would be greatly appreciated.

Well, here's the thing. Tanking in D&D doesn't... quite... work. There are ways, like bullrushing an opponent and trying to knock them away, knocking or tripping an opponent prone, or otherwise depriving them of an action. But it's almost impossible to force an opponent to focus on you rather than on your squishy little friends.

A few pieces of more general advice:

1. Be There. As you mentioned, the first step is to find where the bad guy is, find where your squishy friend is, and be in between. It's simple, really. And Barbarian has the advantage of mobility for precisely that purpose.

2. Deprive of Action. An enemy who cannot act cannot harm your squishy. Spells which deprive an enemy of movement, attacks which cause knock-back, knock-prone, or trips or disarms will rob your enemies of actions they could take against your allies. Consider, for example, the Stand Still feat, which allows you to stop an enemy dead in his tracks at the cost of an Attack of Opportunity.

3. Crusader. There is a class that can tank moderately well, and it's the Crusader from Tome of Battle. This class has access to two stances - basically persistent non-magical buffs - of note. The first, Iron Guard's Glare, allows you to cause enemies to take a penalty on their attacks unless they attack you. The second, Thicket of Blades, grants you attacks of opportunity whenever anyone tries to get past you.

These are just some basic steps. If you don't plan to add Crusader, you'll have to focus on your mobility and your action interruptions to tank effectively.

[Iryanmadayana]

Well, here's the thing. Tanking in D&D doesn't... quite... work. [...]

Thanks for the advice. Yeah, that's sort of what I came to assume with time. My friend (who will be DMing the group) mentioned a feat named Goad that apparently works as a taunt of sorts, but that one is based on charisma, which is currently my dump stat. That is another reason for not making the character a crusader, aside from flavor issues and, of course, the fact that apparently crusaders cannot be neutral, while druids have to be. ^^;

So I guess my best bet would probably really be to just go for high mobility for superb positioning (probably taking Mobility or even Spring Attack) and then possibly adding Stand Still at 6 or 9, maybe.

I am considering using Warblade instead of Barbarian right now, actually (Warblade seems very malleable in terms of flavor, so I don't thiis is a problem). That would allow the use of several maneuvers (like Charging Minotaur) that would help with the sort of combat style I am going for without needing to spend a bunch of feats that I can't afford to spend. In fact, I would apparently get a bonus feat from this later on, so there. I already gave the character the Quick trait, and if I go this route, I can stay in the Absolute Steel stance as soon as I can get my hands on that, which would probably be at character level 7 or 8...

Hmm, yeah ok. Thanks a lot for your help! Unless anyone else has other helpful suggestions, I think I'll go with this, then. :smallsmile:

[ddude987]

I would drop the barbarian part from your build. If you want to be a tanky meatshield than just go straight druid and make sure you have a decent Con mod. At level 6 you gain wildshape and you can wildshape into any sort of animal, like a bear, to get a big strength and at later levels things like large size. Also there are animal forms to get you goodies like improved trip, pounce, and other things that make you melee supreme champion. On top of that you have an animal companion (Which I recommend fleshraker dinosaur from MM3 when you can get it) the animal companion will also be very competent at melee combat and should have the warbeast template put on it. With this build you can dump every stat but Wis and Con. Until you get wildshape just use your animal companion (a wolf or something) for melee combat and you cast crowd control spells.

tl;dr be druid only. You and your animal companion will each be as good as any melee combatant and then some.