Pre-"I am behaving like an adult" jitters - Visiting a House

[Cikomyr]

Hi there. I am going to go visit a house with the intention to (maybe) buy it for the first time in my life. And damn it, I feel nervous. Kind of a big "adult" thing to do, don't you think? It's a huge commitment. I never stayed in the same place for more than a year in the past... 5 years. :smalleek:


So.. here I am. Just wanting to share my nervousness with someone. I have a list of questions to ask to look like a "real serious buyer". I have my own camera to take pictures.

Someone else had this big worry before one of these big "I am now an adult" steps?

[Cristo Meyers]

Hi there. I am going to go visit a house with the intention to (maybe) buy it for the first time in my life. And damn it, I feel nervous. Kind of a big "adult" thing to do, don't you think? It's a huge commitment. I never stayed in the same place for more than a year in the past... 5 years. :smalleek:


So.. here I am. Just wanting to share my nervousness with someone. I have a list of questions to ask to look like a "real serious buyer". I have my own camera to take pictures.

Someone else had this big worry before one of these big "I am now an adult" steps?

Ohhh, first house jitters. Arguably worse than pre-marriage jitters. Big money investments have a way of cutting right to the quick, don't they?

I'd give out advice, but most of it would all be about the US housing market, not the UK. Rule #1: there's always going to be something that'll need fixing that you won't know about when you buy the house. Always. The folks at the hardware store knew us at sight by the end of the first week when we bought our house.

[Manga Shoggoth]

I can't think of any questions - In my major house-hunting sessions we assumed that the things the householder would say were intended to try and sell the house, and they would deliberately downplay any problems. As a result we were more interested in seeing what was there.

I don't know how the processes have changed since I was buying, but I do suggest that you consider getting a full structural survey done. They are relatively expensive, but we had two surveys done (we looked at two properties) - the one for the first property essentially said "don't buy this place at any price", and the second said "The worst I can find is a couple of scraped bricks".

A basic survey (what was then known as a valuation survey) wouldn't have caught the problems the Structural survey caught.

As always with these things, caveat emptor...

[Cristo Meyers]

I can't think of any questions - In my major house-hunting sessions we assumed that the things the householder would say were intended to try and sell the house, and they would deliberately downplay any problems. As a result we were more interested in seeing what was there.

Well, things like how old the furnace, windows, and AC (if applicable) are, whether you're looking at nat. gas or electric for heating, are things that you're always going to want to know. Same thing for the water heater, and the roof especially.


I don't know how the processes have changed since I was buying, but I do suggest that you consider getting a full structural survey done. They are relatively expensive, but we had two surveys done (we looked at two properties) - the one for the first property essentially said "don't buy this place at any price", and the second said "The worst I can find is a couple of scraped bricks".

A basic survey (what was then known as a valuation survey) wouldn't have caught the problems the Structural survey caught.

As always with these things, caveat emptor...

Yeah, these days it pays to be extra careful. The survey won't catch everything.

[Cikomyr]

Well, it's in Canada. And as far as I know, you can ask if there is going to need any obvious work and they have to answer truthfully or expose themselves to a civil sue.

But it looked good. You gotta ask when the roof has been redone; if there has been any problem with it. When the windows have been redone. In Quebec, you HAVE to ask about the heating bill. About the water heater, etc..

The real estate agent showed me one weakness in the house: a crack in the concrete foundation. However, the house has been purposely built on a small hill, so it's less likely to cause problem. But it could be something to look into and have surveyed.

*phew*, it actually went well.

[Cristo Meyers]

Well, it's in Canada. And as far as I know, you can ask if there is going to need any obvious work and they have to answer truthfully or expose themselves to a civil sue.

But it looked good. You gotta ask when the roof has been redone; if there has been any problem with it. When the windows have been redone. In Quebec, you HAVE to ask about the heating bill. About the water heater, etc..

The real estate agent showed me one weakness in the house: a crack in the concrete foundation. However, the house has been purposely built on a small hill, so it's less likely to cause problem. But it could be something to look into and have surveyed.

*phew*, it actually went well.

Hey, one step closer! :smallsmile:

I would definitely get a crack in the foundation at least looked at. Foundation problems can be a huge expense to fix. Even if it turns out to be nothing, it's better to know.

[Cikomyr]

Hey, one step closer! :smallsmile:

I would definitely get a crack in the foundation at least looked at. Foundation problems can be a huge expense to fix. Even if it turns out to be nothing, it's better to know.

Agreed.

The basement hasn't been finished either; so it's bare concrete and wooden ceiling. However, there's more than enough space for me, da gf, and 2-3 childrens, 4-5 cats with just the ground floor :smalleek:

[Morgarion]

Well, it's in Canada. And as far as I know, you can ask if there is going to need any obvious work and they have to answer truthfully or expose themselves to a civil sue.

If you make an offer, you should be able to make it contingent on the results of a professional inspection.

[Cristo Meyers]

Agreed.

The basement hasn't been finished either; so it's bare concrete and wooden ceiling. However, there's more than enough space for me, da gf, and 2-3 childrens, 4-5 cats with just the ground floor :smalleek:

It's amazing how quickly all that space will fill up, though.

Admittedly, filling it up is half the fun.

Finishing the basement would be a pretty big job in and of itself. There's quite a few differences when you're building up in a basement (moisture from the walls, risk of flooding, insulation...)


If you make an offer, you should be able to make it contingent on the results of a professional inspection.

There's this, too.

[Morgarion]

There's nothing wrong with a good unfinished basement. Where else are you going to store your pickles over the winter?

[Cikomyr]

I don't know. If I leave the basement unfinished, I would have a MASSIVE area to host large-scale WH40K and Fantasy games, up to 20,000 points!! :smallbiggrin:

[Cristo Meyers]

I don't know. If I leave the basement unfinished, I would have a MASSIVE area to host large-scale WH40K and Fantasy games, up to 20,000 points!! :smallbiggrin:

Behold...the Nerd Cave! :smallbiggrin:

[Cikomyr]

Behold...the Nerd Cave! :smallbiggrin:

**** yhea :smallamused:

[BizzaroStormy]

Finishing the basement would be a pretty big job in and of itself. There's quite a few differences when you're building up in a basement (moisture from the walls, risk of flooding, insulation...)

Assuming you've got the bare walls down there, the can buy some cans of stuff (we used dry-lok in our basement) to seal it and prevent moisture from getting in. Once that is done regular walls can be put up and it will look just like another floor in your home. Though I did leave a large portion unfinished since the year-round temperature it had naturally was perfect for making mead.

[Jonzac]

I remember living in North Dakota and most of the basements there had a sump pump for a wide variety of reasons, might want to check that out.

-talk to neighbors if you can...about schools, crime, the house, etc
-(in the US) remember your monthly house payment includes the payment to the bank, taxes into escrow accound, insurance into escrow account so you'll pay more that just the loan amount each month
-Here in US when you buy a house the assessment of its value becomes its new base value for taxes...which might be more than the current occupants are paying...visit your county clerk (or equvilent) to make sure.

[factotum]

There's a Newcastle upon Tyne in Canada? :smallwink:

As for the house, sounds odd that they don't force you to get a survey done when buying a house over there, and a small crack in the foundations does sound like a worry to me--I'd definitely get that checked out before buying the house. Of course, chances are you've already fallen in love with the place and will put an offer down without worrying about any of that stuff, so don't know why I'm bothering. :smallsmile:

[Chen]

There's a Newcastle upon Tyne in Canada? :smallwink:

As for the house, sounds odd that they don't force you to get a survey done when buying a house over there, and a small crack in the foundations does sound like a worry to me--I'd definitely get that checked out before buying the house. Of course, chances are you've already fallen in love with the place and will put an offer down without worrying about any of that stuff, so don't know why I'm bothering. :smallsmile:

Here in Quebec, its extremely rare to inspect a place before putting on offer on it. You just make the offer contingent on the inspection. Otherwise you're wasting money on inspections.

[Cikomyr]

There's a Newcastle upon Tyne in Canada? :smallwink:

As for the house, sounds odd that they don't force you to get a survey done when buying a house over there, and a small crack in the foundations does sound like a worry to me--I'd definitely get that checked out before buying the house. Of course, chances are you've already fallen in love with the place and will put an offer down without worrying about any of that stuff, so don't know why I'm bothering. :smallsmile:

I completely forgot to update my location.. I am near Montreal, Quebec.


And nah, my gf just beat some sense into me and told me we shouldn't be buying a family-sized house that early in our life together. She is probably right... :smallfrown:

Still. The experience was nice.

[Cristo Meyers]

I completely forgot to update my location.. I am near Montreal, Quebec.


And nah, my gf just beat some sense into me and told me we shouldn't be buying a family-sized house that early in our life together. She is probably right... :smallfrown:

Still. The experience was nice.

It wasn't really senseless. If you have the money and can expect to stay in that particular location for a good period of time then nabbing a house certainly isn't a bad plan.

Sure, there are other concerns, but if the house was in your price range then it's definitely a valid option.

[Cikomyr]

I personally believe we could afford it, but the argument be more like "the money could be better used elsewhere", which is actually true.

[Chen]

I'd certainly be more wary of getting a place that ISN'T family sized right now in Montreal. Prices are extremely high and buying for a short term flip now may not be super viable. Of course people have been saying that for ages now and market has just kept going up. Maybe its a bunch of bull****. Still when I bought the condo I'm in now, we made particular note of how well it would be to handle extra family members should they be coming along.

[Cristo Meyers]

I personally believe we could afford it, but the argument be more like "the money could be better used elsewhere", which is actually true.

True, as long as "elsewhere" is pretty clearly defined. It's all a matter of priorities and being clear about them.

[factotum]

I personally believe we could afford it, but the argument be more like "the money could be better used elsewhere", which is actually true.

You could always persuade her that the house is an investment opportunity. :smallbiggrin:

[Chen]

You could always persuade her that the house is an investment opportunity. :smallbiggrin:

A long term investment maybe. Short term might be risky in the current market though.

[Cikomyr]

You could always persuade her that the house is an investment opportunity. :smallbiggrin:


A long term investment maybe. Short term might be risky in the current market though.

Well, we do plan to have a family together. So it would certainly be long-term if we end up buying that sort of place.

[Chen]

Well, we do plan to have a family together. So it would certainly be long-term if we end up buying that sort of place.

That was my point. Real Estate is generally a good investment long term. Recently it has also been a good investment short term. I'm not sure how much longer the short term part will be true in Montreal. So buying a small place now (one you'll grow out of quickly, say within 5 years) may not be the safest fiscal plan.

[thorgrim29]

You're in Montreal or near Montreal? Because I'm fairly certain the resale market for condos in Downtown Montreal will crash before the end of the decade, because most of the new buildings seem to be aimed at the single young professionnal crowd, so by the time those people turn 30 and move to the south bank or go back to their town there will be a ton of them on the market. This is just my non-professionnal opinion, but anyway you might consider that. It could also mean a boom in midrange houses near Brossard by the same time

[Chen]

You're in Montreal or near Montreal? Because I'm fairly certain the resale market for condos in Downtown Montreal will crash before the end of the decade, because most of the new buildings seem to be aimed at the single young professionnal crowd, so by the time those people turn 30 and move to the south bank or go back to their town there will be a ton of them on the market. This is just my non-professionnal opinion, but anyway you might consider that. It could also mean a boom in midrange houses near Brossard by the same time

I'm talking IN Montreal and yes the assessment you made is the one many people have made. So if you're planning on staying for longer than a single Mortgage term, its probably less risky. But if you want to flip a place downtown in the next 5 years, that's certainly higher risk. The suburbs are probably less risky, but its not obvious those prices won't crash either. Single family homes are in demand everywhere around here. Once they run out of room downtown, the close suburbs are going to get hit with a condo boom as well, and its not obvious what that will do to prices of the existing houses.

[FinnLassie]

Eep. And I thought I felt really adult and mature when I went to my first ever flat viewing to get a place rented. :smalleek:

[factotum]

because most of the new buildings seem to be aimed at the single young professionnal crowd, so by the time those people turn 30 and move to the south bank or go back to their town there will be a ton of them on the market.

And there are no people being born in Canada so there won't be another wave of 20-something single professionals to fill in the gaps? :smallconfused:

[Harlot]

As a friend of mine put it:
"Getting married. Yup, thats commitment of sorts.
Getting children. That's commitment too, but doesn't rule our separation from the wife later on.
Going to the bank with my wife to get a loan that we both sign for?
Now THAT shows commitment. THATs being serious about each other: Common debt! Nowhere to run! The bank will always catch up! Scariest thing I ever did"

Yeah, it's alright to be nervous!

[Cristo Meyers]

And there are no people being born in Canada so there won't be another wave of 20-something single professionals to fill in the gaps? :smallconfused:

Of course there will be, just not enough to make a big enough dent in the overall supply which is inflated because everyone's trying to get into the urban 20-something market. That surplus supply is what will drive the value down down the line.

It's less "not enough 20-somethings" and more "too many condos aimed at 20-somethings."

This is, admittedly, a horribly over-simplified observation from an outsider, though.

[Chen]

Of course there will be, just not enough to make a big enough dent in the overall supply which is inflated because everyone's trying to get into the urban 20-something market. That surplus supply is what will drive the value down down the line.

It's less "not enough 20-somethings" and more "too many condos aimed at 20-somethings."

This is, admittedly, a horribly over-simplified observation from an outsider, though.

Its also considering the current situation where you have families and such leaving the island more and more. Clearly that's bad for the city and all of the new mayoral candidates are trying to find ways to retain families on the island. Should they actually come up with a good way to do that (better schools, big subsidies etc), you could end up with more of a boom than a crash too.

[Cikomyr]

We are not IN Montreal. Luckily, we currently live on the south shore; in the region of Saint-Jean-Sur-Richelieu, but anywhere between La Prairie to Richelieu would be fine; even going through St-Bruno

[Chen]

I'm not familiar with the real estate market in those areas unfortunately. Only thing I'd be worried about with a small house in the suburbs would be re-sale. You mentioned it yourself, people move to the suburbs when they are ready for kids and a family. This tends to require a bigger house rather than a small one.

Of course waiting (and presumably renting in the meantime) is certainly a viable option as well. Real estate is an investment like any other. It just has a much higher barrier to entry than many other investments. The bonus of course is you get something functional out of the investment as well.

[Eulalios]

Just wanted to pitch in that I bought "house as an investment" a couple years before the US market peaked, and my wife has been griping about it ever since. Mainly because we bought right size for the family we planned, and then unplanned good things happened ... but now we're stuck bc market stilllllll sucks.

So your gf is totally right about don't buy now, use the money for other things.

One (possibly) worthwhile other thing would be to use the money to purchase a rental property while you continue to rent yourself. I know it may sound weird, but the way the money works in some areas, is that rental from 3-family > ( (payment for three-family rental property mortgage + your rent for decent apartment) ~ (payment for mortgage of a house where you would want to spend the next 30 years) ). Montreal may vary.

[Cikomyr]

Let's be fair. I wouldn't have bought a house in the US as early as 2004. It was obvious as sin the market was going to go down and crash; no offense.

Monteal's real estate market seems to be a bit more... rationale.

[thorgrim29]

Also worth mentionning is that you realy should wait until you can pay the 25% cashdown, the lower rate is worth it (for context, over here we have a government body that insures banks against mortage defaults, and if you pay less then 25% cashdown they charge you around 1.5% more to pay those guys)

[Cikomyr]

I really do not have 80,000$ cash laying around, sadly.

[Chen]

Also worth mentionning is that you realy should wait until you can pay the 25% cashdown, the lower rate is worth it (for context, over here we have a government body that insures banks against mortage defaults, and if you pay less then 25% cashdown they charge you around 1.5% more to pay those guys)

The CMHC mortgage insurance doesn't change your borrowing rate. It adds a fixed amount cost to the total mortgage based on how much of a downpayment you add. So if you have a $400 000 house with 10% downpayment, you have a CMHC premium of 2%. So your total mortgage loan from the bank would be $367 200.

[Karoht]

Yes, a house is an investment. It's also a place to live. If it's the place you want to live at a price you can afford, the investment portion is usually of secondary concern, because at the end of the day you need a roof over your head.

Also, it's easy to downgrade, it's MUCH harder to upgrade. I speak from experience working in banking. If you can afford the place reasonably, and it's comfortable to you, and if you think it is worth the money, then go for it. If you have reason to think that the market is going to come down, or the house for some reason is overpriced, maybe wait 6 months, and use that time to save up more? Maybe something better priced will end up on the market in that time.

Finally, note that interest rates are eventually going to go up. I think the Bank of Canada said they are planning on raising the rate soon.
Hmmm, a quick google search indicates that they are planning on keeping it where it is until 2016. BUT they also said they are going to wait and see what the US does, and they are going to raise their rates soon if I'm not mistaken.

The above should in no way mean you should move quickly, but keep an ear to the news, there is usually 3 to 6 months of telegraphing if the rates are going up.