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Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-02, 08:57 PM
HELLO!

I was recently working on a natural wereleopard character and I thought that this might be an interesting discussion.

The Key to making a good (powerful that is) lycanthrope is to get as many good abilities into those animal hitdie that you can. Thats why leopard is a good choice (2 feats, pounce, rake, improved grab, big skill bonuses, only 3hd, damn cool).

The question here is:

What is your favorite animal to make into a werecreature

slash

What animal gets the best abilities for its HD?

Shazzbaa
2007-01-02, 09:12 PM
Unfortunately, my traditionalist mind hasn't quite accepted that there exist anything besides werewolves and weretigers, and anything else that someone can prove to me actually exist in legend (I think werebears might have mythological backing, but I'm not sure).

Werecrocodiles and the like just make me want to cry.

However, I must admit, the hybrid form of the suggested wereleopard would be visually awesome...

Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-02, 09:24 PM
Sorry, but i have to brag a tiny bit about my wereleopard NPC, because i think you will like him.

Fighter/Warshaper/Kensai

Fancies himself a paladin, however he walks that line between superzealous and evil. While he himself acts the pinacle of goodness, he scorns the weak slightly, and is wrathful and merciless in combat. Dispite this he still believes that he is righteous might (Has Silver Fang from heroes of Valor, and Kensai gives his claws electric and holy).

However, he does succumb to one urge he has... which even he knows is evil. Cannibalizing those he 'righteously smites'. However, he justifies this secret passion as 'due punishment for those who walk the path of evil' and 'the death of the evil will nourish the life of the good'. But deep in his heart he knows its wrong.

Tactics:
Pouncing on prey and making his full attack finishing with his improved grab and raking. Wereleopard gives him +8 to climb and he can take 10 on it. Also, +4 to both stealth skills.

Sacred Stealth, hehehe.


Also, Werewarhorses looked kindof interesting. (Fun name for one: Equinox, har)

mooseofshadows
2007-01-02, 10:03 PM
Personally, I'm a fan of werewolves myself, but that's probably because my first tabletop RPG was Werewolf: the Apocalypse, for which I still have a particular affinity. Other than that, I'm a real fan of were coyotes and werebears, and also a nod to werespiders, and of course my old group's personal favorite, the wereplatypi.

Person_Man
2007-01-02, 10:18 PM
From a crunch point of view, the best Were-whatever's I'm aware of are Entomanothrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20040621a) Sword Spiders. Entomanthorpe's have all the normal advantages of Lycanthropes, plus they're immune to mind affecting effects. Sword Spiders (Monsters of Faerun) are vermin with 8 attacks, large size, and good abilities.

So, a Were-Sword-Spider with levels of Warshaper, Warmind, and Nature's Warrior with the Improved Multi-Attack feat would be quite a fearsome melee combat build. But it requires all kinds of cheese to use (online rules, 3.0 monster, multiple suppliments, frequent multi-classing), so I've never actually heard of anyone using it in a real game.

Halcyon_Dax
2007-01-02, 10:39 PM
haha awsome.
I guess I was looking for the best core stuff, perhaps including the Completes.

Wereleopard warshaper kensai is pretty nasty and only uses MM and CW

Thomas
2007-01-03, 02:55 AM
Unfortunately, my traditionalist mind hasn't quite accepted that there exist anything besides werewolves and weretigers, and anything else that someone can prove to me actually exist in legend (I think werebears might have mythological backing, but I'm not sure).

Werecrocodiles and the like just make me want to cry.

Eh? Wereleopards exist in African lore. Werecats exist in European lore. Weretigers in Asia, werejaguars in South America, weresharks in Pacific islands... there's a load of other shapechangers in stories. You can pretty much take the most prominent local predator, and people will have believed in men taking it's shape.

And D&D-style werewolves don't really have much of a mythological backing; they're straight out of 20th-century movies, which pretty much invented the man-wolf hybrid, silver, the bite-infection, etc. Medieval werewolves were usually witches of some sort, who often used a wolf-skin and foul magic to change shape; or else they were cursed to change shape. Applying these movie abilities to other creatures has precisely as much backing in mythology as applying them to werewolves does.


Personally, I like dire wolf werewolves, for that W:tA -look when they change...

Aside from that, I like any Ravenloft lycanthropes (with their salient abilities), but especially werebats. Richemulot wererats with spider climb are cool, too.

The New Bruceski
2007-01-03, 03:17 AM
Tolkien has a basis for werebears in The Hobbit with the skinchanger Beorn.

Thomas
2007-01-03, 03:39 AM
Tolkien has a basis for werebears in The Hobbit with the skinchanger Beorn.

No worse a basis for D&D lycanthropes than a movie featuring Lon Chaney Jr. ...

LordLocke
2007-01-03, 03:42 AM
Tolkien has a basis for werebears in The Hobbit with the skinchanger Beorn.

I believe David Edding's 'The Belgarid' series had a man cursed to change into a bear as well. Barak, I think?

Thomas
2007-01-03, 04:36 AM
I believe David Edding's 'The Belgarid' series had a man cursed to change into a bear as well. Barak, I think?

Protip: Eddings ripped off Tolkien zomg!

It's all just a take on Viking berserkers (bear-sarks, "bear-shirts"), who were sometimes thought to change into wolves or bears.

Jack Mann
2007-01-03, 04:38 AM
Berserker comes from a Norse word meaning Bear-Shirt. They believed that a man could gain the power of a bear or a wolf by wearing its skin (this evolved from cults worshipping bears and wolves in Northern Europe). Certain groups capitalized on these beliefs, and gained a reputation for savagery and prowess in combat. Some were said to actually take the form of the animal in question. This is likely the source of Beorn, though Beorn is depicted as having far more self-control than the mythological (or historic) berserkers had.

EDIT: Damn you, Simu-Thomas!

Ambrogino
2007-01-03, 06:04 AM
Like Thomas said, shapeshifters exist in nearly every form of myth, and very few things in D&D bear much realtionship to their progenitor myth. What he didn't mentions is Were-seals! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selkie)

I still have the issue of White-Wolf Magazine they were statted in for W:tA...

amanodel
2007-01-03, 06:10 AM
Were-badger or were-boar gives endless rage or ferocity. Those are nice. I once created a gnome were-wolverine barbarian. That was sick.

Were-camels, anyone? :D

Also, any were-birds let you fly. They're awesome.


For their HD leopard, cheetah, crocodile and wolf worths it the most.

Falconsflight
2007-01-03, 06:19 AM
The fun thing about were animals is you can do the whole "Increase HD" thing, or you can Decrease HD however you like.

So that creature with 8d8 hD you can decrease to 4d8 HD. Or that 2d8 HD can be increased to 4 HD to make the monster large.

Were creatures can be one size smaller, same or one size bigger than their base creature. WHich is rather fun.

amanodel
2007-01-03, 06:24 AM
The fun thing about were animals is you can do the whole "Increase HD" thing, or you can Decrease HD however you like.

I know there's monster advancement (But that's stupid with lycantrophing), but I never heard of monster decreasement. Where is it?

Falconsflight
2007-01-03, 06:27 AM
I assumed it was possible. Considering Advancement is just decreasment backwards. But I'm now that I look at it again, I'm not so sure.

But still. Turning that medium Wolf into a Large one for just one extra HD... That's nice.

amanodel
2007-01-03, 06:33 AM
1 HD tiny elephants? That sounds wrong.

Advanced large were-wolf, you say? Helps with the tripping for sure. But you'd have to give that two extra HD, not just one. Wolf is 2 HD, large wolf starts at 4 HD. Two class levels might be better.

I quickly looked at the MM and only wolverines (from the previous list) are capable of a size increasement with 1 HD. But they can't use it well.

Thomas
2007-01-03, 06:56 AM
Were-camels, anyone? :D

Also, any were-birds let you fly. They're awesome.

Thing is, you need a pretty danged big bird. Small to Large, for human lycanthropes. Not a lot of those in the game.

And camels aren't carnivores, omnivores, or scavengers. They're herbivores.



The fun thing about were animals is you can do the whole "Increase HD" thing, or you can Decrease HD however you like.

So that creature with 8d8 hD you can decrease to 4d8 HD. Or that 2d8 HD can be increased to 4 HD to make the monster large.

Were creatures can be one size smaller, same or one size bigger than their base creature. WHich is rather fun.

Houseruled decreased HD are fine for custom creatures, but you should never use a decreased-HD animal with lycanthropy. Those HD partly "buy" the animal's ability scores and special abilities, and a lycanthrope template with the same abilities but decreased HD is obviously way more powerful (it allows for more class levels in the same ECL/CR, and class levels are always more powerful than animal HD).

Dhavaer
2007-01-03, 07:16 AM
1 HD tiny elephants? That sounds wrong.

Mimmoths! I want one!

Charity
2007-01-03, 07:27 AM
Mimmoths! I want one!
Just add hay for-
A pet and a water pistol in one easy to care for bundle.

Neo
2007-01-03, 07:50 AM
yeah, but then think about Colossal Mice.

You could have the ferocious were-lemming, comes with Improved Leap for those high up places.

amanodel
2007-01-03, 08:44 AM
Thing is, you need a pretty danged big bird. Small to Large, for human lycanthropes. Not a lot of those in the game.Eagles or 2hd advanced owls. Those are both small.

yeah, but then think about Colossal Mice.Animals can't advance beyond a level. Many animals cannot advance at all.

And camels aren't carnivores, omnivores, or scavengers. They're herbivores.But they have a secondary bite attack! They are scary! :)

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-03, 09:35 AM
The monster classes on the Spooky Wizard's website allow you to take as many or as few animal HD as you like, up to the limit for a normal animal of its kind.

Of course, if you don't take any animal HD the shapechanging ability is merely cosmetic (except for damage reduction.. yay).

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 09:54 AM
The fun thing about were animals is you can do the whole "Increase HD" thing, or you can Decrease HD however you like.

So that creature with 8d8 hD you can decrease to 4d8 HD. Or that 2d8 HD can be increased to 4 HD to make the monster large.

Were creatures can be one size smaller, same or one size bigger than their base creature. WHich is rather fun.

Wrong. Unless you're using a house rule, you can't reduce an animal's hit dice. You can only increase it.

Because of this and the +2 or +3 LA, Lycanthropes PC's are almost always a bad deal. But they still make great NPC's or enemies.

Dire Penguin
2007-01-03, 10:41 AM
I find lycanthropes to be favored by players for some stupid reason. They're uncontrolable in their animal forms, and hated! I can't see why people think they're really all that cool...Except the commoner flaw:were-sheep.


TASTY: special quality (were-sheep)
Whenever being attacked by a carnivorous creature, the were-sheep always egts attacked first, becasue it looks yummy!

Thomas
2007-01-03, 11:06 AM
Eagles or 2hd advanced owls. Those are both small.

Like I said, I prefer werebats (dire bat) for the flight. Large hybrid and animal forms. (Houserule the flight speed to the hybrid, obviously. What's the point, otherwise?) And they're bound to look more grotesque than any other werecreature, pretty much...

Pegasos989
2007-01-03, 11:28 AM
I was concidering that in my next DnD campaign (which will use a bit WoD - WtA mythology) I would grant all the players werewolf template for free. Anyone sees any problems with it?

Thomas
2007-01-03, 11:39 AM
I was concidering that in my next DnD campaign (which will use a bit WoD - WtA mythology) I would grant all the players werewolf template for free. Anyone sees any problems with it?

Aside from using anything to do with WoD?

I jest.

Seriously. So long as you enforce the rules (LA is +2 or +3, 2 animal HD, so that's +4 or +5 to ECL), the only problem you have is that most enemies can't pass their DR, which makes fights kind of pointless. (I loved playing a pixie sorcerer; at low levels, nothing could touch him, even if it could see him somehow.)

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 11:40 AM
I was concidering that in my next DnD campaign (which will use a bit WoD - WtA mythology) I would grant all the players werewolf template for free. Anyone sees any problems with it?

Why use D&D if you want to play a Werewolf game? Just use the Storytelling system. It does a much better job of capturing the coolness of werewolves, with a lot fewer mechanics to get in the way.

amanodel
2007-01-03, 11:40 AM
Add a were-feline template to one, so the others could chase her whenever they get bored :)

Shazzbaa
2007-01-03, 11:47 AM
Wow, sorry for causing the short derailment there. Yeah, I know there are lots of different shapechanging things (didn't know about the sharks, tho), and that werewolf lore has pretty much abandoned its roots anyway. But regardless, a were-weasel still feels wrong to me...


I find lycanthropes to be favored by players for some stupid reason. They're uncontrolable in their animal forms, and hated! I can't see why people think they're really all that cool...
First of all, small correction. A natural lycanthrope is in complete control of its transforming abilities. An afflicted lycanthrope who's become aware of his lycanthropy may have WILL have troubles controlling his transformation, but he's still in control of himself -- it's just that he may turn into a wolf whether he wants to or not.

Second of all, not everyone wants to play a well-liked character. I personally have a penchant for playing characters that have great difficulty in social situations for one reason or other, and the idea of having to hide from everyone the fact that you change into a wolf-beast under the full moon is right up my alley. :smallbiggrin:

P.S. -- Halcyon, your wereleopard sounds fun. ^^

Pegasos989
2007-01-03, 11:56 AM
Why use D&D if you want to play a Werewolf game? Just use the Storytelling system. It does a much better job of capturing the coolness of werewolves, with a lot fewer mechanics to get in the way.

Because I have two players who like DnD and expect to play a DnD campaign, with the traditional fantasy world, great monsters, heroic adventures... I just thought that it would be a nice plot idea to use the WtA mythology of werewolves being warriors of Gaia, wyld/weaver/wyrm being the powers of chaos, order and balance, weaver having imprisoned wyrm... I can think of a lot of ways to connect this stuff to DnD, too (drows worshipping the spider goddess, hmm?).

So as this, I thought that if I keep werewolves, I might just as well let them turn players into werewolves if they ask for help. Naturally I can just reflavour away the whole bite-afflicted -thingy or even somewhat remove the werewolves' importance to this whole thing. Just concidered option of letting them be werewolves for free.

CabbageTheif
2007-01-03, 12:02 PM
were elephant for the win. in hybrid for it can hold another weapon in its trunk.

MandibleBones
2007-01-03, 12:07 PM
I still have the issue of White-Wolf Magazine they were statted in for W:tA...

Bah. Selkies are Fey, and are statted up for Changeling: The Dreaming :)

Back to topic: Were-Otters could be fun... and were-badgers aren't bad, either. Plus it's an excuse to be stubborn without playing a Paladin.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-01-03, 12:17 PM
I've always wanted a Were-megatherium. Those things are supposed to be approaching indestructable even without damage reduction.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-03, 12:18 PM
were elephant for the win. in hybrid for it can hold another weapon in its trunk.

Elephants are neither carnivores, omnivores or scavengers.

Ramza00
2007-01-03, 01:56 PM
Tolkien has a basis for werebears in The Hobbit with the skinchanger Beorn.
While you has basis for wearbears in a Tolkein world, Beorn can also be summed up with the barbarian prestige class bear warrior in complete warrior

Ramza00
2007-01-03, 02:07 PM
Like I said, I prefer werebats (dire bat) for the flight. Large hybrid and animal forms. (Houserule the flight speed to the hybrid, obviously. What's the point, otherwise?) And they're bound to look more grotesque than any other werecreature, pretty much...
Its a cool creature, have you ever seen the animated version of the man-bat? (Batman villian, was the 1st episode of the 1992 series)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Man-Bat

Person_Man
2007-01-03, 03:23 PM
Because I have two players who like DnD and expect to play a DnD campaign, with the traditional fantasy world, great monsters, heroic adventures... I just thought that it would be a nice plot idea to use the WtA mythology of werewolves being warriors of Gaia, wyld/weaver/wyrm being the powers of chaos, order and balance, weaver having imprisoned wyrm... I can think of a lot of ways to connect this stuff to DnD, too (drows worshipping the spider goddess, hmm?).

So as this, I thought that if I keep werewolves, I might just as well let them turn players into werewolves if they ask for help. Naturally I can just reflavour away the whole bite-afflicted -thingy or even somewhat remove the werewolves' importance to this whole thing. Just concidered option of letting them be werewolves for free.

Ah, that's a pretty good reason.

I wouldn't see any problem, except that you'd have to run them up against more difficult combat, just like a gestalt game. And be sure to have a widespread paranoia against werewolves, so that silver weapons are more common.

NullAshton
2007-01-03, 03:27 PM
Ah, that's a pretty good reason.

I wouldn't see any problem, except that you'd have to run them up against more difficult combat, just like a gestalt game. And be sure to have a widespread paranoia against werewolves, so that silver weapons are more common.

I think he was meaning if a person is new to D&D, made a suboptimal character, and doesn't want to start over.

Shazzbaa
2007-01-03, 04:49 PM
@Pegasos

If you're going by RAW, lycanthropy as an affliction can hurt until you get mad ranks in Control Shape. If you're a caster of any kind it'd hurt way more than it helps.

Even if you houserule the need for "control shape" out, I'd think it still wouldn't do much for casters. You can't talk in hybrid or animal form, so that leaves you with, what, Glibness? Unless you houserule Natural Spell as working for lycanthropes as well.

Basically, I don't think it'll be helpful to everyone unless you have a party full of melee-focused characters.

But I'm not familiar with W:tA (astoundingly) so I'm not sure what-all changes you'd be making to the lycanthropy rules as they stand.

Pegasos989
2007-01-03, 04:50 PM
Ah, that's a pretty good reason.

I wouldn't see any problem, except that you'd have to run them up against more difficult combat, just like a gestalt game. And be sure to have a widespread paranoia against werewolves, so that silver weapons are more common.

Oh yeah. Actually I hadn't yet even thought about it, but as they would be fighting also against the order and these cities of humans, I guess that humans should feat/hate/be paranoid about them more and silver weapons would be more common. Thanks for reminding me.


I think he was meaning if a person is new to D&D, made a suboptimal character, and doesn't want to start over.


Well, other one of the players isn't new to DnD and I wasn't really thinking about it like that.

However, as there is only the two players, the boost might not mean that I should start going above their CR monsters...


Well, gotta think about it more but just asked here if anyone saw any problems worth mentioning in it.

Pegasos989
2007-01-03, 04:52 PM
@Pegasos

If you're going by RAW, lycanthropy as an affliction can hurt until you get mad ranks in Control Shape. If you're a caster of any kind it'd hurt way more than it helps.

Even if you houserule the need for "control shape" out, I'd think it still wouldn't do much for casters. You can't talk in hybrid or animal form, so that leaves you with, what, Glibness? Unless you houserule Natural Spell as working for lycanthropes as well.

Basically, I don't think it'll be helpful to everyone unless you have a party full of melee-focused characters.

But I'm not familiar with W:tA (astoundingly) so I'm not sure what-all changes you'd be making to the lycanthropy rules as they stand.

Ah, true. The poor underpowered casters... Hehe. No, really, I didn't remember that you are not able to cast in it... I guess that was first flaw spotted, right there.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-04, 02:02 AM
Why would a caster even consider lycanthropy? Casters gain little benefit from that animal HD clogging up their spellcasting progression, and most animals have special abilities that benefit melee.

Little_Rudo
2007-01-04, 02:49 AM
There's currently a PbP starting on this board where each character is a lycanthrope, and I went ahead and made the token arcane caster, as a sorcerer. Yeah, it's really not fun being a level 2 sorcerer in a level 4 game (the DM is dropping the LA but keeping the Lycanthrope HD), but at least the natural armor and higher HD makes her quite survivable.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-04, 03:53 AM
Why would a caster even consider lycanthropy? Casters gain little benefit from that animal HD clogging up their spellcasting progression, and most animals have special abilities that benefit melee.

Usually lycanthropy isn't a 'choice'; you're either infected in a fight or born with it. I don't think a caster would have much of a say in the matter. :smalltongue:

Thomas
2007-01-04, 04:50 AM
were elephant for the win. in hybrid for it can hold another weapon in its trunk.

Elephants are herbivores. No were-elephants.

Megatheriums are trickier; sloths are omnivores, but ground sloths are believed to have been herbivores.


Its a cool creature, have you ever seen the animated version of the man-bat? (Batman villian, was the 1st episode of the 1992 series)

Bram Stoker's Dracula. I think WotC went a bit far ripping it off, though, when Strahd can turn into a werebat in the remade Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. (Incidentally, does anyone else ever think "Ve don't go to Ravenloft" when they read that name?)

amanodel
2007-01-04, 06:52 AM
Usually lycanthropy isn't a 'choice'; you're either infected in a fight or born with it. I don't think a caster would have much of a say in the matter.

That was mentioned in the "not to do list for players", as in "not running to the nearly dead werewolf quickly undonning your armor and intentionally falling to the ground". Less spellcasty guys sometimes get the idea when fighting were-creatures. :)

AtomicKitKat
2007-01-04, 09:51 AM
Megatheriums are trickier; sloths are omnivores, but ground sloths are believed to have been herbivores.

I thought it was the other way around, that tree sloths are vegetarian(generally hanging upside down, eating leaves. Same niche as the Koala), and Megatheriums eating corpses or ocassionally killing an attacker(Those claws are vicious! :smalleek:) and eating it.

Person_Man
2007-01-04, 10:19 AM
I'm actually suprised that no one has mentioned were-giant-octopus or (if you really don't care about ever going into dungeons) were-giant-squid. What's not to love about 9 or 11 attacks tentacle attacks (or more maybe, I'm not sure how it would work in hybrid form) with reach, Improved Grab, and a freakin ink jet! When you're done pummeling your opponents, you can just humiliate them to death.

Thomas
2007-01-04, 11:12 AM
I thought it was the other way around, that tree sloths are vegetarian(generally hanging upside down, eating leaves. Same niche as the Koala), and Megatheriums eating corpses or ocassionally killing an attacker(Those claws are vicious! :smalleek:) and eating it.

Kind of impossible to say about megatheriums, since they lived around 1,000,000 years ago...

And some very "unexpected" animals are omnivorous. Squirrels, for instance, aren't averse to some bird eggs (or young birds)...

A were-octopus wouldn't get any tentacle attacks in hybrid form. It'd get the same two claws and a bite as every other were-creature. You can houserule it otherwise (like I've done with the hybrid werebat being able to fly), but I don't recommend it. (A were-octopus rogue in animal form is bad enough.)


A lycanthrope in hybrid form gains two claw attacks and a bite attack as natural weapons.

Ambrogino
2007-01-04, 11:18 AM
Bah. Selkies are Fey, and are statted up for Changeling: The Dreaming :)

Later, yes, but the issue of White Wolf Magazine with them as Bete predated Changeling first ed. Just like the different versions of demons and a bunch of other creatures crossing different gamelines and editions[/tangent]

Wizzardman
2007-01-04, 12:26 PM
1 HD tiny elephants? That sounds wrong.

...Actually... that's not that much of a stretch. Pygmy elephants used to be common in parts of Asia (usually being around Small size), and there were plenty of ancient legends in India of elephants small enough to fit in the palm of a hand.

Why use D&D if you want to play a Werewolf game? Just use the Storytelling system. It does a much better job of capturing the coolness of werewolves, with a lot fewer mechanics to get in the way.
I hate to say this, but having played through the storytelling system... D&D is much better. I love the general amount of detail and concept that the storytelling system allows, but the d10-for-everything system doesn't work. It rapidly gets to the point where players will always statistically make at least 3 successes with every action they perform--you can't miss, basically, and with many of the skill actions, you almost never fail. I'm sorry, but any game that allows for a relatively new character to roll 13 dice in order to hit someone with a shotgun, or 12 to seduce them, is a broken game.

System rant aside, I do love a lot of the WoD setup. Especially for Werewolves. I love the five different forms, the actually background, and the various opponents.

Closet_Skeleton
2007-01-04, 01:21 PM
Since Omnivore basically means will eat that's available. Usually they will go for what's easiest to get. Since plants don't tend to run away a lot of omnivores spend a lot of time eating them. Eventually they might evolve into herbivores but if they can get meat as or more easily as them can get plants (carrion, drought etc) then a lot of animals will unsuspectedly eat meat. A lot of people in India have vegetarian lifestyles simply because they have too much rice to bother hunting.

Technically, you have to be an omivore to be a vegetarian because a vegetarian has to choose not to eat meat despite the fact that it can easily digest it.

According to Fiend Folio a Megatherium is a Huge animal and is omnivorus. Since Fiend Folio is at the moment the Dungeons and Dragons source on Megatherium it's safe to say that if DnD says Lycanthropes have to be omnivores or carnivores and that Megatherium are carnivores, as long as you're at least large you can be a weremegatherium.

Pegasos989
2007-01-04, 01:26 PM
...Actually... that's not that much of a stretch. Pygmy elephants used to be common in parts of Asia (usually being around Small size), and there were plenty of ancient legends in India of elephants small enough to fit in the palm of a hand.

I hate to say this, but having played through the storytelling system... D&D is much better. I love the general amount of detail and concept that the storytelling system allows, but the d10-for-everything system doesn't work. It rapidly gets to the point where players will always statistically make at least 3 successes with every action they perform--you can't miss, basically, and with many of the skill actions, you almost never fail. I'm sorry, but any game that allows for a relatively new character to roll 13 dice in order to hit someone with a shotgun, or 12 to seduce them, is a broken game.

System rant aside, I do love a lot of the WoD setup. Especially for Werewolves. I love the five different forms, the actually background, and the various opponents.


I love the D10 system. It is so sucky that my group avoids combat as far as possible because people start shivering when they hear "Roll for initiative" and start counting those 7d10... It really encourages roleplaying out of situations.

Maryring
2007-01-06, 10:37 AM
Sorry, but i have to brag a tiny bit about my wereleopard NPC, because i think you will like him.

Fighter/Warshaper/Kensai

Fancies himself a paladin, however he walks that line between superzealous and evil. While he himself acts the pinacle of goodness, he scorns the weak slightly, and is wrathful and merciless in combat. Dispite this he still believes that he is righteous might (Has Silver Fang from heroes of Valor, and Kensai gives his claws electric and holy).

However, he does succumb to one urge he has... which even he knows is evil. Cannibalizing those he 'righteously smites'. However, he justifies this secret passion as 'due punishment for those who walk the path of evil' and 'the death of the evil will nourish the life of the good'. But deep in his heart he knows its wrong.

Actually, I can disagree on that. Cannibalism is not inheirtantly evil. It depends a lot on the society. Our modern society would view it as evil, but several old societies would view it as neutral, or even good, to be a cannibal. Some religions even made cannibalism the entrance to heaven. To not be eaten by your children would mean that you would never enter heaven. So in the end, that might not be an evil trait. Merely a weakness, and a passion, which in and itself would not be inheirtantly evil. I know that I've made several societies where cannibalism is a sign of respect etc.

But personally, I'm a vegetarian.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-06, 11:23 AM
Book of Vile Darkness says cannibalism is evil. So...

Maryring
2007-01-06, 11:37 AM
Book of Vile Darkness is a very bad book anyway.

PinkysBrain
2007-01-06, 11:42 AM
The Key to making a good (powerful that is) lycanthrope is to get as many good abilities into those animal hitdie that you can. Thats why leopard is a good choice (2 feats, pounce, rake, improved grab, big skill bonuses, only 3hd, damn cool).
For most people special attacks aren't that relevant, since they only operate in animal form. You could build a character around combat in that form, but it's a bit weird.

PS. I don't see why playing a game with an all lycanthrope party would necessarily work better in (n)WoD. Especially the old WoD rubs me the wrong way ... some people like the gothy "the world is going to hell and there is nothing you can do about it" vibe, there are certainly a lot of settings like that, but it's not for everybody. Even though nWoD left that behind it's still rather dark ... some want goth and some want high fantasy, even when playing a lycanthrope.

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-01-06, 11:47 AM
Is it possible to have a natural weretyrannosaurus-rex? Think about it- regular guy, kinda pissed at you, starts mouthing off. You ignore it. Suddenly he's HUGE and has a very big mouth full of very sharp teeth. You stop ignoring it.

Forgot that T-Rex's are only huge :)

Beelzebub1111
2007-01-06, 11:49 AM
Dire Badger! by far.

Captain van der Decken
2007-01-06, 11:57 AM
I remember seeing an ogre wereT-rex somewhere. That was pretty cool.

Norsesmithy
2007-01-07, 01:24 AM
On the topic of unusual omnivores, I have seen my neighbor's quarter-horse mare kill and eat a rabbit, because she was pregnant, and they didn't know it, so her feed didn't have enough protein content (Or at least that is why we think she did it).

I think the Were-T-Rex I saw was a Troll, not an Ogre, the thing was vicious.

Turcano
2007-01-07, 03:34 AM
Book of Vile Darkness is a very bad book anyway.

Booooo! :smallyuk:


On the topic of unusual omnivores, I have seen my neighbor's quarter-horse mare kill and eat a rabbit, because she was pregnant, and they didn't know it, so her feed didn't have enough protein content (Or at least that is why we think she did it).

That reminds me of a herd of deer that lived on an island that didn't have a normal source of calcium to regrow their antlers, so they would catch seabirds, chew up and eat their bones, and spit the rest out. Animals do wierd things when they're thrown a curveball.


I think the Were-T-Rex I saw was a Troll, not an Ogre, the thing was vicious.Ugh. A T-Rex is bad enough; a T-Rex with 41 Str and regeneration is something that Should Not Be.

Thomas
2007-01-08, 04:59 AM
I hate to say this, but having played through the storytelling system... D&D is much better. I love the general amount of detail and concept that the storytelling system allows, but the d10-for-everything system doesn't work. It rapidly gets to the point where players will always statistically make at least 3 successes with every action they perform--you can't miss, basically, and with many of the skill actions, you almost never fail. I'm sorry, but any game that allows for a relatively new character to roll 13 dice in order to hit someone with a shotgun, or 12 to seduce them, is a broken game.

D&D + WoD = 3rd edition Ravenloft. D&D setting created by a White Wolf -associated group (I forget how they were associated; it was something damned complicated). Wonderful synthesis of functional mechanics and incredible, stunning gothic horror style and flavor. (Although they should've gone further in changing the basic D&D assumptions, like they did with Masque of Red Death.)


According to Fiend Folio a Megatherium is a Huge animal and is omnivorus. Since Fiend Folio is at the moment the Dungeons and Dragons source on Megatherium it's safe to say that if DnD says Lycanthropes have to be omnivores or carnivores and that Megatherium are carnivores, as long as you're at least large you can be a weremegatherium.

Wait, what? If the FF says they're omnivorous, how does that make them carnivorous?

I do agree that if the FF says the megatherium is omnivorous, then it can be used for the lycanthrope template.


Is it possible to have a natural weretyrannosaurus-rex? Think about it- regular guy, kinda pissed at you, starts mouthing off. You ignore it. Suddenly he's HUGE and has a very big mouth full of very sharp teeth. You stop ignoring it.

Forgot that T-Rex's are only huge :)


I remember seeing an ogre wereT-rex somewhere. That was pretty cool.

Gee, sounds familiar. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/Pnoxyx12ZcZ8H5zI78m.html)

:smallwink:


On the topic of unusual omnivores, I have seen my neighbor's quarter-horse mare kill and eat a rabbit, because she was pregnant, and they didn't know it, so her feed didn't have enough protein content (Or at least that is why we think she did it).

Horses are odd-toed ungulates; odd-toed ungulates are herbivores. Just because something ate meat doesn't make it an omnivore or a carnivore. It's a biological, anatomical distinction. Don't ask me how biologists make that distinction, though.