Bard optimization.

[Anium]

I'm starting a new game from level 1 with a bard. My stats are generic at 16,14,14,13,12,10. Books forbidden are BoeD, ToB and any psionics.

We are playing in a pirate campaing
I was looking at two flaws, human silverbrow with dragonfire, and snowflake dance at level 3. Might go stormsinger just for the lore. Need to be usable at all levels as we take forever to level up.

[CombatOwl]

I'm starting a new game from level 1 with a bard. My stats are generic at 16,14,14,13,12,10. Books forbidden are BoeD, ToB and any psionics.

We are playing in a pirate campaing
I was looking at two flaws, human silverbrow with dragonfire, and snowflake dance at level 3. Might go stormsinger just for the lore. Need to be usable at all levels as we take forever to level up.

I've said this before in a different thread; take one level of bard and put the rest in cleric. Chalk it up to bad life choices when your character was young. That's the most optimal bard around.

[Kennisiou]

Or if you want to be an actual bard...

Without BoED, you can't use words of creation to optimize your bardsong, but you still have access to the other optimization feats and gear. Song of the Heart to get yourself an extra +1 on inspire courage and if you can get yourself the dragonblood subtype you can get Dragonfire inspiration. From there you can make yourself a pretty solid generalist bard that can add 1d6 points of fire damage to weapon attacks for each of the normal +1 to attack and damage rolls from inspire courage (in exchange for not giving the usual bonus to attack and damage). From there you can do things like take two weapon fighting to make yourself deal more damage when you attack, although without ToB for Song of the White Raven, combat barding is going to be a tad less optimal (you could still grab some fighter/ranger levels to make your TWFing a tad better if you'd like, but there are no feats to let those levels stack for determining bard song power so it may not turn out that well).

You can also go full caster and focus less on the support/combat ability implications of bardic music and take levels in the Sublime Chord PrC. It makes you into something like a combination of a bard and a sorceror and is a build generally considered to be on par with most non-prestige Cleric builds.

Taking Dragonsong Lyrist levels is an option for both builds, as it allows you to do a few more things with a bardic-music-like effect at the cost of less spellcasting progression and less progression on your prior bardic music abilities. It would mean weakening both builds a little in what they set out to do while opening up some new options and is probably better as something to do on a sublime chord build (where it won't interfere too much with spellcasting since SC should give you all the spells you need and your progression in normal bardic music is less important).

[Lanaya]

I've said this before in a different thread; take one level of bard and put the rest in cleric. Chalk it up to bad life choices when your character was young. That's the most optimal bard around.

Except it's not a bard, and therefore fails to qualify as the most optimal bard.

[Ortesk]

I'm starting a new game from level 1 with a bard. My stats are generic at 16,14,14,13,12,10. Books forbidden are BoeD, ToB and any psionics.

We are playing in a pirate campaing
I was looking at two flaws, human silverbrow with dragonfire, and snowflake dance at level 3. Might go stormsinger just for the lore. Need to be usable at all levels as we take forever to level up.

Dip a level for crusader, Song of the white raven is very good. Go to the complete arcane bard prestiges, can get 9th level spells at level 19 off the sorceror feats, you could be a very large threat with snowflake wardance, DFI, and 9th level spells backing you to boot. you can fight as well as most fighters and sling magic. Also use UMD and cast a few cleric spells, such as divine might

[Talya]

He said no TOB, guys.

I'll post some bard optimization here shortly.

Question - what role do you see your bard in? Bards can do just about anything well, but some roles require focus at the expense of others.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Silverbrow Human is good, DFI is good. You want the spell Inspirational Boost (SC), a Badge of Valor (MIC), and you can trade your Suggestion song for the feat Song of the Heart (ECS) or just spend a feat on it. Loss of BoED means no Words of Creation, but your DFI with the above should be as follows: Bard 1: +1d6; Inspirational Boost (Bard 2): +2d6; Medallion of Courage (Bard ~3): +3d6; Song of the Heart (Bard 6, or Bard 3 spending the feat): +4d6; Bard 8 with everything: +5d6. Words of Creation would make that 7d6 at 6th and 9d6 at 8th. Note these apply to both melee and ranged attacks, so you could just stick to using a shortbow and not worry about Str or melee attack bonus.

Consider using Savage Bard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#bardVariantSavageBard) instead of the standard Bard. Swap your Hypnotism song for Healing Hymn in CC, which applies to Cure Minor Wounds spells. Trade Countersong for Spellbreaker Song in CM, and trade Suggestion for Song of the Heart (you can't use Suggestion without Hypnotism anyway). Consider getting Bardic Knack in PH2 instead of Bardic Knowledge.

Stormsinger is a good class, but its spellcasting advancement has the older wording: "At each stormsinger level, the character gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before adding the prestige class."
Compare this to the Virtuoso's wording: "Beginning at 2nd level, a virtuoso gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class level."
You can go Bard 8/ Virtuoso 2/ Sublime Chord 2/ Virtuoso 8, and apply Virtuoso's spellcasting toward Sublime Chord. You can't do that with Stormsinger, unless you can get a favorable ruling from your DM. If not, maybe go Bard 8/ Mindbender 1/ Dragonblood Sorcerer 1/ Sublime Chord 1 or 2/ Stormsinger 9 or 8. Note that the Dragonblood Sorcerer 1 substitution level gives you Draconic Heritage as a bonus feat, so you can switch your DFI damage to sonic and use Creaking Cacophony to give opponents vulnerability to sonic damage. Pick Benign Transposition as one of your Sorcerer spells known, and Wall of Smoke is also extremely useful once you start taking Sublime Chord and you have a decent caster level.

Get Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) preferably for something that flies, its natural attacks will benefit from your Inspire Courage bonus. Melodic Casting is also necessary, but you may be able to let it wait until 3rd if you're not casting many spells in combat. I'd get Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Wild Cohort, and Dragonfire Inspiration at 1st with flaws, put Melodic Casting at 3rd, and consider some of these flaws (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30). If you take a Mindbender dip then definitely get Mindsight from Lords of Madness (p126). At 7th level you can dismiss your current Wild Cohort and get a Dire Eagle (RoS), it will still be at 'level -3' even though you had to wait until 7th for it.

[Talya]

Biff just built my usual bard advice.

Don't forget, though, if you do the Bardic Knack swap (a good idea) to grab a feat like Jack of All Trades to enable it across all skills.

[Tim Proctor]

Go Bard 9/ Virtuoso 1/ Sublime Cord 1/ Virtuoso 9

It's all about spells and how you use them.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Go Bard 9/ Virtuoso 1/ Sublime Cord 1/ Virtuoso 9

It's all about spells and how you use them.

It's 8/2/2/8, the song you get at Sublime Chord 2 is better than the one at Bard 9.

[Irk]

take arcane flourish, arcane accompaniment and doomseak then get a harmonizing weapon. Now your opponent has to deal with -10 pretty much everything for 2+cha modifier rounds.

[Anium]

Well looking at your helpfull advice i'll try this build(still accepting changes).

Talked with my dm and said no dragon magazine and no cohorts(of any kind, including familiars) either. As i can only have 1 clas and one prestige class i'll go directly to Sublime chord. So here comes the build:

Silverbrow human: Savage bard
Str 13
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 14
Wis 10
Cha 16

Traded: Bardick knack, healing hymn.
Feats: Dragonfire inspiration, Jack of all trades, Extra music(to be retrained after a few levels) and Melodic casting.

Skills maxed:
Balance
Bluff
Proffesion(pirate)
Perform (wich one would be good for a pirate)
Diplomacy
Sense motive
Knowledge nobility

[Tim Proctor]

It's 8/2/2/8, the song you get at Sublime Chord 2 is better than the one at Bard 9.

I've never seen either to make a difference, you're looking at casting 9th level spells.

However, another option is Bard 10/Sublime Cord 10, with Nature Bard (UA, p 58) grabbing a Dire Tortoise from the Sandstorm book, and then you have a tank for days, however a Bloodstriker MM3 is also really good while you blast people with spells.

The key is Sublime Cord allows for for the increase in Tier from I think 3 to 1st.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Profession (sailor) should be more than sufficient: it actually applies to a whole range of skills, so it's probably the superior option.

Perform (Talk like a Pirate) is my preferred skill on this kind of character.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Perform (Talk like a Pirate) is my preferred skill on this kind of character.

You are a pirate! (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=you+are+a+pirate&oq=you+are+a+pirate&gs_l=youtube.3..0l10.617.2592.0.2824.16.13.0.3.3.0 .171.1542.4j9.13.0...0.0...1ac.1.11.youtube.GKgLgh 1tayI)

[Talya]

The key is Sublime Cord allows for for the increase in Tier from I think 3 to 1st.

3rd to 2nd. It's a bit weaker than straight sorcerer.



Talked with my dm and said no dragon magazine and no cohorts(of any kind, including familiars) either. As i can only have 1 clas and one prestige class i'll go directly to Sublime chord.

It's never a bad choice to go to sublime chord. I won't advise against it, just be aware you'll be completely changing your focus after level 10, and your class won't play anything like it did prior to that. You will no longer melee, you will no longer advance inspire courage. You will instead bend the universe to your will with your personality, like a sorcerer.

Sublime Chord advances Bardic Knowledge. Try to convince your DM that this means it should also advance Bardic Knack (which replaces Bardic Knowledge.) It's a reasonable rule, but it is not clear that this works.

[Juntao112]

I'm starting a new game from level 1 with a bard. My stats are generic at 16,14,14,13,12,10. Books forbidden are BoeD, ToB and any psionics.

We are playing in a pirate campaing
I was looking at two flaws, human silverbrow with dragonfire, and snowflake dance at level 3. Might go stormsinger just for the lore. Need to be usable at all levels as we take forever to level up.

I have an alternate proposal. (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?327699-Shiver-Me-Timbers-It-s-Black-Jack-Wellesley!)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

This trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) will help you get around the limited number of spells known, though it requires a good alignment.

[Talya]

This trick (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=267805#4) will help you get around the limited number of spells known, though it requires a good alignment.

BoED is on his no-no list.