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View Full Version : Bard Rewrite (Tier 1? You Decide) (In-Progress; Could Use Assistance)



Ziegander
2013-10-17, 06:00 PM
http://images.ados.fr/1/galerie-personnages-masculins/photo/hd/8587278858/1616260105/galerie-personnages-masculins-sorcier-bleu-big.jpg

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: 1d8

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Songs of Power|0th|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th

1st|+0|+1|+1|+2|Bard's College, Bardic Knack, Bardic Knowledge, Songs of Power|
2|3|0|—|—|—|—|—

2nd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Spellcasting Dilettante|
3|3|1+1|—|—|—|—|

3rd|+2|+2|+2|+3|Force of Personality|
3|4|1+1|—|—|—|—|—

4th|+3|+2|+2|+4|Cunning Performer (1st)|
4|4|2+1|0|—|—|—|—

5th|+3|+3|+3|+4||
4|4|2+1|1+1|—|—|—|—

6th|+4|+3|+3|+5|Independent Study|
5|4|2+1|1+1|—|—|—|—

7th|+5|+3|+3|+5||
5|4|2+1|2+1|0|—|—|—

8th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+6|Cunning Performer (2nd)|
6|4|3+1|2+1|1+1|—|—|—

9th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+6||
6|4|3+1|2+1|1+1|—|—|—

10th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+7|Reproachful Mien|
7|4|3+1|2+1|2+1|0|—|—

11th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+7||
7|4|3+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|—|—

12th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+8|Cunning Performer (3rd)|
8|4|3+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|—|—

13th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+8|Slippery Mind|
8|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|0|—

14th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+9||
9|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|—

15th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+9||
9|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|1+1|—

16th|+12/+7/+2|+7|+7|+10|Cunning Performer (4th)|
10|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|0

17th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+10||
10|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|1+1

18th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+11||
11|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1

19th|+14/+9/+4|+8|+8|+11|Grace of the Glib|
11|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|2+1

20th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+12|Cunning Performer (5th)|
12|4|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1|3+1
[/table]

Class Skills (6 + Int modifier): All skills are considered class skills for the Bard.

Weapons and Armor Proficiency
A bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are proficient with light armor and shields (except tower shields). A bard can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. However, like any other arcane spellcaster, a bard wearing medium or heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component (most do). A multiclass bard still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.

Spells
A Bard casts either arcane or divine spells, and sometimes both, depending on his choice of College and the choices he makes as he gains levels. Many of these spells are drawn from the spell list assigned to his Bard's College (see below). A Bard is not restricted by his alignment when casting spells with an alignment descriptor, such as Evil or Good. A Bard does not need to prepare spells from the spell list assigned to his Bard's College, but as he gains levels, he gains the ability to cast other spells. These spells must be prepared (see Spellcasting Dilettante, below).

To prepare or cast an arcane spell, the Bard must have an Intelligence score equal to at least 10 + the spell level; to prepare or cast a divine spell, he must have a Wisdom score at least as high. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Bard's spell is 10 + the spell level + the Bard’s Charisma modifier.

Like other spellcasters, a Bard can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given in the table above. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

When casting spells from the spell list assigned to his Bard's College, the Bard casts spontaneously, the same way a Sorcerer might, but when casting other spells, he must prepare them from memory (see Spellcasting Dilettante, below).

Bard's College
At 1st level, a Bard chooses from among the following Bard's Colleges:

The College of Boundless Lore
The College of Martial Puissance
The College of Masterful Subterfuge
The College of Nature's Glory
The College of Resounding Harmony
The College of Soaring Oratory

This choice determines the Bard's core spell list (see below). The Bard knows all spells on the assigned spell list up to the level he is able to cast and casts these spells spontaneously without needing to prepare them ahead of time.

Bardic Knack (Ex): When making any skill check, a Bard can use 1/2 his class level (Rounded up) in place of the number of ranks he has in the skill (even if that number is 0).

A Bard cannot take 10 or take 20 on checks when using this feature (to take 10 you have to use your actual ranks). If the skill doesn't allow untrained checks, the Bard must have at least 1 actual rank to attempt the check.

Bardic Knowledge (Ex): A Bard may make a special check with a bonus equal to his class level + his Intelligence modifier to see whether he knows some relevant information about local notable people, legendary items, or noteworthy places. (If the Bard has 5 or more ranks in Knowledge (history), he gains a +2 bonus on this check.)

A successful check will not reveal the powers of a magic item but may give a hint as to its general function. A Bard may not take 10 or take 20 on this check; this sort of knowledge is essentially random.

{table=head]DC|Type of Knowledge

10|Common, known by at least a substantial minority of the local population.

20|Uncommon but available, possibly legend, known by only a few people.

25|Obscure, known by few, hard to come by.

30|Extremely obscure, known by very few, possibly forgotten by most who once knew it, possibly known only by those who don’t understand the significance of the knowledge.
[/table]

Songs of Power (Sp/Su): A Bard is trained to use the Perform skill (of any variety, not just Singing or Music) to create magical effects in the world around him. For a number of rounds each day equal to two times the total of his Charisma modifier + his class level, he may produce a variety of effects, based on the number of Songs he knows. A Bard may only have a single Song of Power active at one time, but may end any Song as a free action.

Activating a Song of Power is usually a standard action which provokes attacks of opportunity when starting the ability, but it is maintained (or ended) as a free action each round. A Song of Power does not require the Bard to be able to complete verbal and somatic gestures, but he suffers a -5 penalty to his Perform check for each type of gesture he is incapable of performing. Though a Song of Power cannot be disrupted like spells can, it will automatically end anytime the Bard is made incapable of taking a free action to maintain it each round.

Songs of Power are not language-dependent, but a deaf Bard does have a 30% chance to fail when attempting a Song of Power. This failure chance applies when he begins a Song and each round he tries to maintain the effect.

Spellcasting Dilettante (Su): Starting at 2nd level, a Bard learns to harness a universal font of magical power allowing him to cast spells not on the spell list assigned to his Bard's College. Once per day, after 8 hours of rest, the Bard may spend 1 hour preparing one spell of every level he is able to cast from the spell list of any base class. He can only cast each such spell once per day, using the spell slots after the "+" sign shown in the above table.

Force of Personality (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a Bard adds his Charisma modifier to his Will saving throws as well as to all Intelligence and Wisdom based skill or ability checks.

Cunning Performer (Ex): At 4th level, a Bard takes his performances to new heights, learning to mimic the abilities of other adventurers with ease. Once per day, after 8 hours of rest, the Bard may choose any single class feature from another base class up to 2nd level. He may choose a new feature each day.

At 8th level, the Bard may choose a second class feature, this one up to 6th level; at 12th, the Bard may choose a third class feature, up to 10th level; at 16th, the Bard may choose a fourth class feature, up to 14th level; at 20th, the Bard may choose a fifth class feature, up to 18th level.

The class features chosen in this way use the Bard's class level in place of the class they were originally written for, but abilities such as Rage, Wild Shape, Smite, or Sneak Attack do not automatically improve to higher level versions. They do grant additional uses per day, when appropriate.

Independent Study (Ex): Starting at 6th level, the Bard may add a spell chosen from the Cleric, Druid, or Wizard spell lists to the spell list assigned to his Bard's College at each new class level. The spells added in this way must be of a level he is able to cast.

Reproachful Mien (Ex): A 10th-level Bard adds his Charisma modifier to his AC against attacks made by intelligent creatures.

Slippery Mind (Ex): Starting at 13th level, even when a Bard fails a Will save against a Mind-Afflicting effect that effect ends at the end of his next turn.

Grace of the Glib (Ex): A 19th level Bard does not fail saving throws on a roll of 1, and adds his Charisma modifier to Fortitude and Reflex saving throws.

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 06:01 PM
Reserved for Bard's Colleges.

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 06:02 PM
Reserved for Songs of Power.

The effect of any given Song of Power becomes more potent, even evolves, based on the magnitude of the associated Perform check. I've got a whole swath of these things hashed out below, but certainly there is room for more of them.

Countersong - Counter sound-based magic, eventually any magic.
Fascinate - Your performance fascinates targets.
Inspire Courage - Grant bonuses to attack and damage, remove fear.
Inspire Competence - Grant bonuses to ability/skill checks.
Inspire Greatness - Grant AC bonus, temp HP.
Song of Freedom - Grant movement, ignore movement-related penalties.
Inspire Heroism - Grant bonus feats.
Inspire Defiance - Grant bonuses to saving throws.
Phantasmal Song - Your performance produces unsettling illusions.
Soothing Voice - Your performance calms targets.
Song of Command - Your performance compels targets to act.
Healing Hymn - Your performance restores hit points.
Hymn of Fortification - Grant bonuses vs aligned creatures.
Inspire Awe - Penalize attack and damage, cause fear.
Inspire Hatred - Your performance sows mistrust/hatred.
Song of Mirrors - Create sounds, images.
Planar Dissonance -
Planar Discordance -
Spellbreaker Song - Force casters to make Concentration check or lose spells.
Inspire Arcana - Grant bonus to caster level.
Loresong - Substitute perform check for Knowledge check.
Words of Creation - Create things from nothing.
Enchanting Song - Charm monsters.
Misleading Song - Your performance makes appearances deceiving.
Inspire Resilience - Grant bonus to Fort saves, DR.
Chord of Distraction - Cause enemies to be flat-footed, flanked, etc.
Epic of the Lost King - Remove negative conditions.
Sound of Silence - Deafen your foes.
Warning Shout - Grant bonus to Ref saves, Uncanny Dodge.
Bolstering Cry - Grant bonus to Will saves, Mettle.
Dragonsong - Add elemental damage to allies' attacks.
Haunting Melody - Your performance affects/calls spirits.
Music of Growth - Your performance affects/calls plants.
Doomspeak - Curse your foes.
Persuasive Song - Substitute perform check for Diplomacy check.
Sound and Fury - Your performance inspires Rage.
Dirge of Revealing - Your performance shows things that are hidden.
Hymn of Fire - Cause fire damage in area.
Words of Destruction - Destroy constructed things.
Dirge of Frozen Tragedy - Cause cold damage in area.
Anthem of Thunder - Cause electricity damage in area.
Chorus of Caustic Agony - Cause acid damage in area.
Aria of Everywhere - Shift allies in and out of astral plane.
Choral Cacophony - Cause sonic damage in area.
Song of Solitude - Send outsiders back where they belong.
Song of Arcane Power - Grant bonuses to spell save DCs.
Song of Timelessness - Your performance stops time.
Inspire Dread - Penalize saving throws.
Inflame the Righteous - Shield allies in flame.
Dirge of the Dead - Speak to the dead.
Lullaby - Your performance puts creatures to sleep.
Apple of Dischord - Your performance causes confusion.
Sharp Note - Improve allies' weapons.

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 06:24 PM
Now, then, what I really need help with is coming up with the spell lists of the Bard's Colleges. There needs to be a hell of a lot of spells in each College, and there are a hell of a lot of books to pour through to select spells of any given theme. Help me!!!

PairO'Dice Lost
2013-10-17, 06:36 PM
I like what you have so far. One minor stylistic concern: the College names don't all match in tone, so I'd suggest different, more evocative names:
The College of Boundless Lore
The College of Nature's Glory
The College of Resounding Harmony
The College of Soaring Oratory
The College of Masterful Subterfuge
The College of Martial Puissance

Or, if you prefer more utilitarian names:
The College of Lore
The College of Nature
The College of Music
The College of Oratory
The College of Subterfuge
The College of Warfare


Now, then, what I really need help with is coming up with the spell lists of the Bard's Colleges. There needs to be a hell of a lot of spells in each College, and there are a hell of a lot of books to pour through to select spells of any given theme. Help me!!!

The original idea I had for the colleges was for each of them to be a set of selection criteria rather than a set list, so that you wouldn't have to go through all 2000+ spells and pick them; the sneaking-related college would be "Illusion spells, Conjuration (Teleportation) spells, spells that provide a bonus to one or more of [list of sneaky skills], spells that change a creature's form in such a way as to hide its original identity, [blah blah blah]," and so forth.

For actual lists, though, this site (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/) has a mostly-complete list of spells, and it wouldn't take too long for me to go through them all and sort them into one of six colleges since we're only dealing with 6 spell levels. I could probably get a good chunk of that done this weekend.

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 07:25 PM
I like what you have so far. One minor stylistic concern: the College names don't all match in tone, so I'd suggest different, more evocative names:
The College of Boundless Lore
The College of Nature's Glory
The College of Resounding Harmony
The College of Soaring Oratory
The College of Masterful Subterfuge
The College of Martial Puissance

These are much better, thank you.


For actual lists, though, this site (http://www.imarvintpa.com/dndlive/) has a mostly-complete list of spells, and it wouldn't take too long for me to go through them all and sort them into one of six colleges since we're only dealing with 6 spell levels.

Ah, good, I'll take a look ASAP.


I could probably get a good chunk of that done this weekend.

You've already helped a great deal! Start wherever, whenever you'd like, I would much appreciate it.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-10-17, 08:52 PM
My first thought is that it looks... redundant. I really like the idea of Songs of Power, and I'd love to see a mechanism like that be the focus of the bard-- it seems much more... I don't know, bard-y than simple spellcasting, while accomplishing the same general effect.

But... "while accomplishing the same general effect."

If spells and songs do the same things, why have both?

The rest of the class is pretty reminiscent of the Factotum-- Cha to many things, class feature mimicry, skill stuff...

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 09:23 PM
My first thought is that it looks... redundant.

What about it, specifically?


I really like the idea of Songs of Power, and I'd love to see a mechanism like that be the focus of the bard-- it seems much more... I don't know, bard-y than simple spellcasting, while accomplishing the same general effect.

I agree, I would rather do a full rewrite with a fully fleshed out, and unique Songs of Power system. This is just easier.


But... "while accomplishing the same general effect."

If spells and songs do the same things, why have both?

Well, in concept, the spells and songs can produce similar effects, sure, but mechanically the Songs of Power work inherently different and produce measurably different results. A Bard that performs a Hymn of Fire is not casting Fireball or Fire Storm. He's producing a unique magical effect, Bard-style. More on that when I get to doing the full write-ups. I can successfully pull off skill-based "casting," which is what the Songs will end up being. Perhaps, with a little ingenuity I will eventually get rid of the spells altogether, but somehow I doubt it.

One utilitarian purpose for this "redundancy" is that it lets the Bard spend his spell slots for effects that his Songs can't reasonably replicate.


The rest of the class is pretty reminiscent of the Factotum-- Cha to many things, class feature mimicry, skill stuff...

Sure, sure, sure. The Bard has always been a jack-of-all-trades, so borrowing conceptually from the Factotum, the by-design jack, is intentional.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-10-17, 09:38 PM
What about it, specifically?
That you have two independent systems producing the same effect. It's like a theurge.

If you want to have access to unique, spell-only abilities, I'd keep Spellcasting Dilettante, but drop the rest of the casting. Strip-mind new Songs from any bard-only spells you'd miss.


I agree, I would rather do a full rewrite with a fully fleshed out, and unique Songs of Power system. This is just easier.
I mean... you're going to have to produce a working system eventually...

Ziegander
2013-10-17, 09:45 PM
I mean... you're going to have to produce a working system eventually...

The Songs of Power system I've fleshed out this thread already pales in comparison to what I would like to design if I stripped the class entirely of spellcasting. It would utilize Spellchords as well as Truespeech to create Songs of Power with interchangeable pieces and effects. I could totally see it being able to go Tier 1, but it would be an exhausting amount of effort.

Morph Bark
2013-10-18, 06:04 AM
The Songs of Power system I've fleshed out this thread already pales in comparison to what I would like to design if I stripped the class entirely of spellcasting. It would utilize Spellchords as well as Truespeech to create Songs of Power with interchangeable pieces and effects. I could totally see it being able to go Tier 1, but it would be an exhausting amount of effort.

Save it for a holiday, when you got time, and enlist others to help along as with the Deeds? :smallwink: