Fochlucan Lyrist, help needed, reward paid in cookies.

[Beltariat]

I'm going to play a fochlucan lyrist, and I have scoured the web for help figuring out a build. I don't seem to be able to find one that both fits my requirements and seems fun to play (ie. has both power and fluff for RP).

The reqs:
ECL 15.
Lvl 1 has to be wizard.
Only 3.5 and no obscure books, no dragon mags. (no green whisperer :/ )
Must qualify for the PrC with bard, druid and rogue, for bardic knowledge, druidic and evasion.
A dragonlance-setting race.
None of this is negotiable.

I would love not to get too far behind on spellcasting, but at the same time I would hate to completely shed the feeling of versatility that the PrC offers. I bruteforced a build but it's vulgar and seems wasteful, so I would love to get new suggestions and/or improvements. So far it looks like this:

Lvl 1. Wizard
Lvl 2. Wizard
Lvl 3. Wizard
Lvl 4. Druid
Lvl 5. Druid
Lvl 6. Druid
Lvl 7. Rogue
Lvl 8. Rogue
Lvl 9. Arcane Hierophant
Lvl 10. Bard
Lvl 11.-15. FL

I would choose Human simply because with the character I have in mind I need high ability-scores in everything but Con, and even there I don't want a lowering. So a neutral racial modification is fine, and so is the additional skillpoints and feat.

I have no idea about feats and would love any help on that front.

As an additional request I would love for people to suggest items to obtain for use with this character. I have 300k Gold to spend.

Is this even possible or am I dreaming of the impossible?

[Kuulvheysoon]

Hmm... if you could loosen your restrictions a bit, it could help.

For example, another build that qualifies is Rilkan Rogue 3/Druid 6/Suel Arcanamach 1/Fochulcan Lyrist 5.

The Rilkan Rogue Racial Sub level (@3rd) gives you Bardic Knowledge in exchange for Trap Sense.

This does, unfortunately, break the Wizard 1 rule, the bard rule and possibly the obscure book rule (does Magic of Incarnum count as obscure?). Since MoI isn't setting-specific, you should be able to work something out to place Rilkan in Krynn - maybe an island far to the East of the Minotaur Isles?

[AMFV]

http://coboard.wikia.com/wiki/Tools_for_Fochlucan_Lyrist_Builds

That has most of the qualifying tricks for the Fochlucan Lyrist that have been used for ages, many of which conform at least somewhat to your restrictions.

[LordBlades]

Just out of curiosity, why are you so keen on Bard, Druid and Rogue as specific sources for bardic knowledge, druidic and evasion respectively?

[Beltariat]

I'm really not keen on it, I would love to go some alternative interesting way about it, but my GM has ruled that the features have to be those exact features.

So bardic knowledge has to be that exact classfeature, not something else like "lore" or whatever else classfeatures out there that resemble it closely, it has to be exactly "bardic knowledge" and has to stack with the bardic knowledge of bards. All the sources I have found have tricksy way of getting this that do not fulfill this.

Similiarly druidic has to be learned in the intended way, by becoming a druid, not by bribing, coercing or some other way forcing a druid into teaching you, and not by taking some feat or classfeature or other deroute, it has to be the intended way.

Actually evasion is the least strict, it simply has to be evasion as a classfeature, so no rings of evasion or chakra or other subversion. If it does not say "Evasion" in the class-table it does not count, and I have not found a class that has evasion at first level which was from allowed sources, and of the allowed ones rogue is my favourite because of flavor and backstappy sneak attack.

The wizard at lvl 1 is a requirement of the campaign, we are part of the towers of high sorcery and it is a very strict requirement.

So thats why, the evasion part can be slacked but the others are quite strict and nonnegotiable.

The tools for building a FL are good, I looked them over early on, but none of the build in there live up to my needs, mostly because of the bardic knowledge and wizard at first level - stuff.

[fishyfishyfishy]

I'm really not keen on it, I would love to go some alternative interesting way about it, but my GM has ruled that the features have to be those exact features.

So bardic knowledge has to be that exact classfeature, not something else like "lore" or whatever else classfeatures out there that resemble it closely, it has to be exactly "bardic knowledge" and has to stack with the bardic knowledge of bards. All the sources I have found have tricksy way of getting this that do not fulfill this.

Similiarly druidic has to be learned in the intended way, by becoming a druid, not by bribing, coercing or some other way forcing a druid into teaching you, and not by taking some feat or classfeature or other deroute, it has to be the intended way.

Actually evasion is the least strict, it simply has to be evasion as a classfeature, so no rings of evasion or chakra or other subversion. If it does not say "Evasion" in the class-table it does not count, and I have not found a class that has evasion at first level which was from allowed sources, and of the allowed ones rogue is my favourite because of flavor and backstappy sneak attack.

The wizard at lvl 1 is a requirement of the campaign, we are part of the towers of high sorcery and it is a very strict requirement.

So thats why, the evasion part can be slacked but the others are quite strict and nonnegotiable.

The tools for building a FL are good, I looked them over early on, but none of the build in there live up to my needs, mostly because of the bardic knowledge and wizard at first level - stuff.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigeBard

A dip in prestige bard might be a better entry method, depending on how you do it. If such things are allowed of course.

[AMFV]

I'm really not keen on it, I would love to go some alternative interesting way about it, but my GM has ruled that the features have to be those exact features.

So bardic knowledge has to be that exact classfeature, not something else like "lore" or whatever else classfeatures out there that resemble it closely, it has to be exactly "bardic knowledge" and has to stack with the bardic knowledge of bards. All the sources I have found have tricksy way of getting this that do not fulfill this.

Similiarly druidic has to be learned in the intended way, by becoming a druid, not by bribing, coercing or some other way forcing a druid into teaching you, and not by taking some feat or classfeature or other deroute, it has to be the intended way.

Actually evasion is the least strict, it simply has to be evasion as a classfeature, so no rings of evasion or chakra or other subversion. If it does not say "Evasion" in the class-table it does not count, and I have not found a class that has evasion at first level which was from allowed sources, and of the allowed ones rogue is my favourite because of flavor and backstappy sneak attack.

The wizard at lvl 1 is a requirement of the campaign, we are part of the towers of high sorcery and it is a very strict requirement.

So thats why, the evasion part can be slacked but the others are quite strict and nonnegotiable.

The tools for building a FL are good, I looked them over early on, but none of the build in there live up to my needs, mostly because of the bardic knowledge and wizard at first level - stuff.

If you'll read the link I posted, you'll see that there are non-bard classes that actually get bardic knowledge explicitly. It's called Bardic Knowledge, and stacks, pretty nifty, right?

Also Combat Medic grants evasion and increases spellcasting, it's called evasion right there in the table.

[LordBlades]

If you'll read the link I posted, you'll see that there are non-bard classes that actually get bardic knowledge explicitly. It's called Bardic Knowledge, and stacks, pretty nifty, right?

Also Combat Medic grants evasion and increases spellcasting, it's called evasion right there in the table.

Also, you can qualify for Combat Medic as a wizard (and it advances arcane spellcasting as well via Arcane Disciple: Healing feat.

[AMFV]

Also, you can qualify for Combat Medic as a wizard (and it advances arcane spellcasting as well via Arcane Disciple: Healing feat.

Yep, it's the less sketchy way to do that.

Additionally here are all the classes that explicitely get "bardic knowledge," per the list of stuff.

Bardic Knowledge
Bard 1
Troubadour of Stars 1, ECL 9, Book of Exalted Deeds
Loredelver 1, ecl 8, Races of Destiny
Rogue 3, Rilkan racial substitution level, Magic of Incarnum
Harper Mage ?, Magic of Faerun
Harper Priest ?, Magic of Faerun


stacks with bard levels
Moonstar Agent, ecl 6, City of Splendors: Waterdeep (FR) - stacks with anything that functions like bardic knowledge
Sublime Chord, ecl 11, Complete Arcane
Fochlucan Lyrist, ecl 11, Complete Adventurer
Ollam, ecl 8, Complete Adventurer
Troubadour of Stars 1, ECL 9, Book of Exalted Deeds
Loredelver 1, ecl 8, Races of Destiny
Ardent Dilettante 1, ecl 6, Planar Handbook
Merchant Prince 1, ecl 6, Power of Faerun

At least some of those should be workable for that. And not terrible as a dip.

[Fouredged Sword]

So the best powered build I can come up with is

(Druid 1 / wizard 4) or (Druid 4 / wizard 1) / combat medic 4 (advancing wizard or druid, your choice) / PRC bard 1 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10.

You loose 2 levels of your primary casting, and 9 levels of your secondary, but that is enough for 9th level spells.

Another way would drop PRC bard and wizard and take bard 1 in it's place. You then focus on druid casting.

Druid 4 / bard 1 / Combat Medic 5 / Fochlucan Lyrist 10.

I like the second build the most. You play as a summoner who buffs and heals his summons once they are in place. Summon, sing, and heal. You will have lots of low level healing spells from a mix of druid and bard. Get reach, and or chain so you can spread the love around. Trade fascinate for Healing Hymn so your low level healing spells heal serious HP.

[dspeyer]

As a one-level dip, prestige bard is just bard with no spellcasting and difficult prereqs (8 ranks in perform before level 13 means finding a base class that has it, and there aren't many).

My inclination would be something like:

Wizard 5 / Druid 2 / Bard 1 / Rogue 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Fochlucan Lyrist X

Sublime Chord has some tough prereqs, but some of them overlap with FL and it brings your casting back up to full (and then some) on one side.

[Beltariat]

As a one-level dip, prestige bard is just bard with no spellcasting and difficult prereqs (8 ranks in perform before level 13 means finding a base class that has it, and there aren't many).

My inclination would be something like:

Wizard 5 / Druid 2 / Bard 1 / Rogue 2 / Sublime Chord 1 / Fochlucan Lyrist X

Sublime Chord has some tough prereqs, but some of them overlap with FL and it brings your casting back up to full (and then some) on one side.

This seems perfect, it's sad that I lose out on a level of FL but the reboot of arcane power is exactly what I was looking for. And it stays perfectly within the boundaries and intentions set out by my gm.

I looked at the combat medic for evasion, I liked the flavor of the class and it would fit perfectly with another theme I had in mind, but I read somewhere that most people take it for the fifth level heal-gain, and a fifth level would mean that i got left behind collectively (ie. in the totalling of arcane/divine magic) since it only advances one class. It also meant I would not get sneak attack which I was rather set on for at least some melee viability.

What did you guys/gals think about the choice of human for race? The argument being that not modifying anything is better than getting boosted in something and booted in something else when the character is one that needs so many different abilityscores.

And if it is not too much to ask, did anyone have thought about fitting or necessary items and feats? Obviously I need items to increase at least Charisma and Int, also perhaps Wisdom, but other than that I have no experience with this kind of multiple-focus itemization.

[Fouredged Sword]

If you have a little sneak attack, then consider craven for boosted damage. Then there are 3d6 worth of extra sneak attack damage enhancements out there if you look for them.

[dspeyer]

Human sounds like a good choice. The extra skill point and feat will help with prerequisites, and you may find yourself wanting able learner. Most other options involve LA or mental or con penalties, and you can't afford any of those. Gnome would be an option, since you've got a lot of d4 hit dice and arcane spell failure on the wizard casting, but it probably isn't worth it.

One thing you might consider is being old. If you don't plan on doing anything physical (without polymorphing), it's a big overall ability gain. It can be fun to roleplay too.