Dangers of City Living

[Tylorious]

Am I the only person here who would never live in a city due to the devestation a zombie apacolypse would cause to the area?

[Dallas-Dakota]

Yep, despite having around 120.000 inhabitants I'd feel pretty safe here.

Due to my city being on a island with only 5 ways of access, three bridges and two tunnels, it's pretty easy to barricade off any walkers.

[FinnLassie]

Yep, despite having around 120.000 inhabitants I'd feel pretty safe here.

Due to my city being on a island with only 5 ways of access, three bridges and two tunnels, it's pretty easy to barricade off any walkers.

But what if the infestation starts in your city?

[rs2excelsior]

I have lived in cities my whole life, albeit small ones.

The thing is, cities are fairly defensible (especially against zombies who won't be taking cover in the buildings) and have more supplies. Lay low for a bit, let the initial mobs pass, then either fort up or move as the situation dictates.

[Traab]

In this day and age, a zombie outbreak in a city is best case. Why? Lots of people who have watched way too many horror films just ITCHING for the time to arrive when they can go rambo on the undead. Sure it sucks in movie universes, but thats because genre savvy characters are rare and in general they tend to act like they have never even HEARD of zombies before, let alone what to do when they appear.

"Oh my god! What are these things!? Why arent they dying when I shoot them in the torso? Dont worry about that bite, we will tend your wounds later."

Meanwhile irl,

"ZOMBIES! Get yer guns and aim for the forehead!"

[KuReshtin]

There was a pretty good article on Cracked-com (I think) where they broke down the reasons why a Zombie breakout wouldn't be as bad as a lot of people seem to think.

Most of it deals with the fact that the zombies themselves would be very suboptimal at 'surviving' in the real world and the way of transmitting the infection (biting) isn't a very efficient way of doing it.

I'd just sit tight, board up the place and keep some golf clubs handy for if they managed to get through the barricades.

[Morgarion]

Am I the only person here who would never live in a city due to the devestation a zombie apacolypse would cause to the area?

Maybe. I'm sure that there are other people around here who are much more unreasonable than you, but they may be so about different things.


In this day and age, a zombie outbreak in a city is best case. Why? Lots of people who have watched way too many horror films just ITCHING for the time to arrive when they can go rambo on the undead.

No.

[valadil]

My inlaws live in the country. A good snowstorm will put their power out for a week. This happens two or three times per winter. Take the low probability high risk chance of a zombie outbreak over the high probability high nuisance chance of now power any day.

Plus I'm not convinced I'd be safer out in the hills. Sure the zombies won't get me, but some survivalist will probably shoot me, either thinking I'm a zombie or I'm carrying supplies. I can outrun zombies, but not bullets.

[warty goblin]

Personally I'd far rather be in the country in case of zombie outbreak. Were I home, the population density is much lower, many people have significant stores of preserved food, and generators to run the well pumps. In the event that fails, we can always boil water from the creek on the gas stove, although that would be extremely inconvenient. Were it winter, we can heat our house using only a woodstove in the country, while in a city I'd be in real trouble if the power went down.

Plus the country place's got most of the necessary zombie killing supplies. Chainmail, shotgun and a machete should be a pretty good kit for defending the home against undead.

[Traab]

Maybe. I'm sure that there are other people around here who are much more unreasonable than you, but they may be so about different things.



No.

Yes. Im not saying it wouldnt be chaotic, it would. Im just saying it wouldnt be a total massacre on the side of the living. The attackers being zombies would be quickly figured out, and considering the number of armed individuals there are, head shots would quickly become the norm. It would be a blood bath, depending on what type of zombie we are talking about, and how the outbreak starts. Patient 0 is a total nonstarter. Wouldnt even make it out of the hospital before being ended. Dead rising from the graves, every grave, at the same time? That could cause a mess, but only if they are fast. A slow zombie mass rising would be so stupid and quickly shut down that it would boggle our zombie movie soaked brains. It would ruin the genre forever.

[Morgarion]

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not disputing your position on the city versus country in case of a zombie outbreak. I'm just telling you that there are in fact not 'a lot of people... just ITCHING for the time to arrive when they can go rambo on the undead'.

[Brother Oni]

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not disputing your position on the city versus country in case of a zombie outbreak. I'm just telling you that there are in fact not 'a lot of people... just ITCHING for the time to arrive when they can go rambo on the undead'.

You'd be surprised.

There are a few playgrounders here who are serving in the military and one of their habits during downtime is making plans for anything or everything that might happen, up to and including zombie virus outbreaks.

[Morgarion]

I'm not saying there aren't any. But they are simply a dangerous, flamboyant minority. And even then, they aren't looking forward to it.

[Juggling Goth]

I love the city. All my stuff's here.

Anyway, what about a Mira-Grant-style zombie apocalypse, where any mammal of a decent size can reanimate as a zombie? I'm saying away from the cows and sheep!

[Mutant Sheep]

I love the city. All my stuff's here.

Anyway, what about a Mira-Grant-style zombie apocalypse, where any mammal of a decent size can reanimate as a zombie? I'm saying away from the cows and sheep!
baaaaaaaah-braiiiiiiiiins...:smalltongue:

Something I never really got about non-graveyard-rising outbreaks is how so many fictional people suck at killing just one zombie. Get one zombie, you broke even. Considering how pathetic the average walker is, and how packs of hundreds don't keep each other in arms reach to protect each other from a smashed face, humanity ever getting into a situation where they're so drastically outnumbered always felt ridiculous to me. I accept it as the plot's premise, but assuming incompetence and hysteria on the parts of almost everybody is a bit much.

[Tyndmyr]

Am I the only person here who would never live in a city due to the devestation a zombie apacolypse would cause to the area?

Doesn't bother me in the slightest. A zombie apocalypse is the scenarion in which problems can be solved by bullets. Basically any other disaster is more troublesome.

Additionally, as I prefer a strategy of taking on the zombies rather directly, being in a higher population area is preferable. Target rich environment. More efficient that way. Shots would lure additional ones in.

Seriously, it's an enemy armed only with a single really close range melee weapon, who is literally unintelligent. If that were a problem for humans, we'd never have made it out of the jungle.

[Worira]

Yeah, something that can be stopped by a couple of hungry crows is not exactly the ultimate disasterror.

Also they're fictional.

[Tylorious]

I love the city. All my stuff's here.

Anyway, what about a Mira-Grant-style zombie apocalypse, where any mammal of a decent size can reanimate as a zombie? I'm saying away from the cows and sheep!

A zombie cow would be absolutely horrifying...

[Cristo Meyers]

A zombie cow would be absolutely horrifying...

Well, it's less horrifying and more "oh dear god why did they do this?", but there's an old 80s cop flick called Dead Heat that features a re-animated butchered cow carcass attacking someone.

Moviebob did a show on it for his Tuesday show on The Escapist. It's...something else :smallbiggrin:

[GM.Casper]

Meh. Its only americam sub-urban houses that have thin doors and panoramic windows. Most city apartments are quite zombie proof. Just bolt the door and lay low for a while.

[Traab]

Well, it's less horrifying and more "oh dear god why did they do this?", but there's an old 80s cop flick called Dead Heat that features a re-animated butchered cow carcass attacking someone.

Moviebob did a show on it for his Tuesday show on The Escapist. It's...something else :smallbiggrin:

A Lee Martinez had zombie cows in his book Gil's All Fright Diner.

[Elemental]

Seriously, it's an enemy armed only with a single really close range melee weapon, who is literally unintelligent. If that were a problem for humans, we'd never have made it out of the jungle.

And a very ineffective close range weapon at that. A rabid house cat is probably more dangerous.

As for the matter of being in a city or the country, either or, makes no difference. I'd just fort up in my house, or with one of the neighbours so we can pool our food reserves and save on our electricity bills at the same time, and wait for the military to deal with it.

[Topus]

The city should provide more supplies, more weapons, more buildings. And, ok, more dead walking bodies. However, if we are talking about the classic fictional zombie outbreak, thus intending a social breakdown and lack of government, I think the most dangerous threat is posed by crazy scavenging humans patrols rather than slow stupid zombies.

[KuReshtin]

Couldn't link to the article with the scientific reasons a zombie apocalypse is doomed to fail when I first mentioned it since I was at work, and then I forgot about it until now.

Anyway. Here it is. (http://www.cracked.com/article_18683_7-scientific-reasons-zombie-outbreak-would-fail-quickly.html)

[Pokonic]

A zombie cow would be absolutely horrifying...

I would be really scared if a sort of cross-species outbreak occured. One reason why:

Zombiephants.

[GolemsVoice]

I actually think that in case of a Zombie attack, zombified rats would be the most dangerous, if they were driven to seek out the living. They can get into almost any building, are small, thus easily overlooked, and there are many. And one bite and you're done.

[Cealocanth]

I actually think that in case of a Zombie attack, zombified rats would be the most dangerous, if they were driven to seek out the living. They can get into almost any building, are small, thus easily overlooked, and there are many. And one bite and you're done.

Well, we live with and around zombified rats every day. (toxoplasmosis, anyone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toxoplasma_gondii)?) The danger comes when the virus the rats are carrying begins to become deadly for humans, rather than cause the barely noticeable symptoms that it causes today.

[Topus]

I actually think that in case of a Zombie attack, zombified rats would be the most dangerous, if they were driven to seek out the living. They can get into almost any building, are small, thus easily overlooked, and there are many. And one bite and you're done.

We had a good example of their effectiveness with the plague that wiped one third of european people during the middle ages. And they even weren't seeking for human brains :P

[Traab]

We had a good example of their effectiveness with the plague that wiped one third of european people during the middle ages. And they even weren't seeking for human brains :P

That was more the fleas on the rats than the rats themselves wasnt it? The rats werent biting people, they were carrying plagued fleas which would jump off in peoples homes, nibble on them, and bam, black death. Zombie rats would truly be terrifying. Especially if they formed swarms.

[Tyndmyr]

Zombie Mosquitos.

That's gonna end badly.

[Topus]

That was more the fleas on the rats than the rats themselves wasnt it? The rats werent biting people, they were carrying plagued fleas which would jump off in peoples homes, nibble on them, and bam, black death. Zombie rats would truly be terrifying. Especially if they formed swarms.
Yes, it was more of a side comment. They were the vehicle for parasites infested by plague bacterium and being the rats omnipresent around human activities made them a very effective mean of infestation.
Should they be zombified, thus lacking sense of fear, they would represent the ultimate nightmare.

[Jon_Dahl]

Zombie apocalypse is impossible, unless we are talking figuratively. There's nothing to worry about.

[Topus]

Zombie apocalypse is impossible, unless we are talking figuratively.
Of course we are.:smallsmile:

[Tyndmyr]

Zombie apocalypse is impossible, unless we are talking figuratively. There's nothing to worry about.

That kind of attitude will have you munchin' brains in no time!

[Jon_Dahl]

Of course we are.:smallsmile:

I just don't understand what the "Zombie Apocalypse" stands for. What is the actual subject here?

[Coidzor]

I would be really scared if a sort of cross-species outbreak occured. One reason why:

Zombiephants.

Thankfully I'm not in India or Africa, and thus there are no elephants except for ones that would tear themselves up getting out of their zoo enclosures and even those are far away. Hmm. On the other hand, I don't think human teeth can scratch, let alone penetrate the skin of an elephant, so they might not be able to infect it.


That was more the fleas on the rats than the rats themselves wasnt it? The rats werent biting people, they were carrying plagued fleas which would jump off in peoples homes, nibble on them, and bam, black death. Zombie rats would truly be terrifying. Especially if they formed swarms.

On the other hand, unless they're the kind that stays fast and agile forever, they're going to burn out even faster than human zombies.


Zombie Mosquitos.

That's gonna end badly.

Indeed, a bit too lethal even for the zombie movie scenario of a small party of survivors with everyone else dead or zombies.

[noparlpf]

I would hate living in a city regardless of zombies. But yeah, in case of zombies I'd rather a sub-suburb. (What do you call the thing between a suburb (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Brisbane_seen_from_air,_suburb.jpg) and a rural area? For example, here's my old house (http://i1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb416/noparlpf/danburyct_zps15db2154.jpg). We could see our neighbors, but we're not all packed densely and the houses all have big yards. Even up the hill houses had some space between them.) Easier to move around without running into zombies because there are fewer zombies. I have a supermarket, a Target, a Best Buy, and a Home Depot all in a cluster just two miles away (by road). Depending on the condition of the roads, I could just drive there (and there's a gas station just outside the Target lot, though that might be looted early), or I might have to bike and rig an easily-released wagon to the back of the bike to carry stuff. Then I just hole up for a while with my heavy bludgeoning weapons on hand and homemade land mines outside.

[Topus]

I just don't understand what the "Zombie Apocalypse" stands for. What is the actual subject here?
Speculative talking. You must suspend your disbelief about the outbreak being successful and start speculating "what about?".
I think you can swap zombie apocalypse with post-nuclear apocalypse and have quite the same speculations (in fact i prefer this scenario).

[noparlpf]

Speculative talking. You must suspend your disbelief about the outbreak being successful and start speculating "what about?".
I think you can swap zombie apocalypse with post-nuclear apocalypse and have quite the same speculations (in fact i prefer this scenario).

Post-nuclear? For that, I'd definitely prefer rural, preferably in the far southern hemisphere. Most of the countries likely to nuke each other to smithereens are in the north.

[Topus]

I don't know, should my country be destroyed by atomic explosions I would like to be here (and survive of course), to contemplate the destruction and to search for cultural treasures to save for future generations.

Anyway, assuming you don't get directly caught by nuclear bombing so you can survive, the real problem, more than radioactive fallout, is the social breakdown due to the lack of government.

[Milo v3]

Me and one of my future housemates started a making a zombie plan, because of we'd be in a city and we're weird.
Somehow she convinced me to not kill her if she "starts" to turn.... So I'm probably gonna be dead if a zombie apocalypse happens. :smalltongue:

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Zombie apocalypse is impossible, unless we are talking figuratively. There's nothing to worry about.

I am so very tired of the zombie obsession...

[Tylorious]

I live on the second floor of an apartment complex, so for me survival will be as simple as destroying some stairs and using a rope ladder off my balcony.

[Traab]

I am so very tired of the zombie obsession...

Bah, zombies are fun, even if they could never actually work. The best part about them is that unless you have sprinters, they are the kind of "apocalypse" that anyone could feel capable of fighting in. I would be TERRIBLE at dealing with a robot uprising, or an incoming meteor. But zombies? Yeah, I could fight that.

[noparlpf]

Bah, zombies are fun, even if they could never actually work. The best part about them is that unless you have sprinters, they are the kind of "apocalypse" that anyone could feel capable of fighting in. I would be TERRIBLE at dealing with a robot uprising, or an incoming meteor. But zombies? Yeah, I could fight that.

Your classic rotting q23wo
yu78\]2iimuhjyyyyyyyyjuuuuuukzxsdd``````[/cat] shamblers shouldn't be a huge problem. Sprinters and whatnot would be. Robots would be. Cyborg zombies would be.

Robots would be most likely, I think. Which is why I keep saying my mum should let me build some EMP devices.

[Traab]

Your classic rotting q23wo
yu78\]2iimuhjyyyyyyyyjuuuuuukzxsdd``````[/cat] shamblers shouldn't be a huge problem. Sprinters and whatnot would be. Robots would be. Cyborg zombies would be.

Robots would be most likely, I think. Which is why I keep saying my mum should let me build some EMP devices.

Sprinters would be an initial problem. If you can survive the surge and get to a safe location, the danger starts to drop in a genre savvy world like ours.

[Maeglin_Dubh]

Bah, zombies are fun, even if they could never actually work. The best part about them is that unless you have sprinters, they are the kind of "apocalypse" that anyone could feel capable of fighting in. I would be TERRIBLE at dealing with a robot uprising, or an incoming meteor. But zombies? Yeah, I could fight that.

This is actually (and you might find this surprising) entirely incorrect.

I'm not saying this to be mean or a jerk, and I have reasoning, so I'll explain where I'm coming from.

TL:DR - Helped an international professor of arms hold a combat course on zombie self-defense, and everyone failed.

So here we are, at a geek event in New Jersey. The schedule has on it a presentation on zombie self-defense by a particular professor of arms, and he approaches my friends and I to help him, since we've worked with him in the past and get along pretty well with his crew.

So he give a 45-minute presentation on how to fight zombies, using various hand weapons. Axe, machete, bat, and crowbar were among the weapons covered. Emphasis was on the idea that a zombie shambling towards you with arms extended has one aim, that being to grab you and pull you in for eating. To fight properly and avoid death or biting, you have to evade that threat zone while counter-attacking. For those of us with some semblance of martial training (which doesn't just mean having done some martial arts, I have a different personal standard when it comes to martial training, but that's another story), this is second nature, because when fighting with knife, saber, bayonet, whatever, you ensure the threat is neutralized either before or as you make your own attack.

The problem is that without that training, you resort to the direct line of attack. "I'm different" you might think, but at a geek event full of people who are undoubtedly genre-savvy, nobody was different. Not even the black-belt karate instructor (who I personally 'bit' by making contact with the painted rubber teeth wired to my fencing mask as he lay under another dead zombie). So what would happen is people would approach the zombies directly and aggressively, make a 12 o' clock headshot that -MIGHT- damage or destroy the brain, but the human skull is very hard for a reason. We gave them the benefit and assumed that a headshot was a kill, but now you have deadweight zombie falling towards you with arms outstretched, and you are in his threat zone. Everyone, and I mean everyone, approached the zombies like they had the hammer in Smash Brothers and went down under corpses until a shambler finished them off.

And that was with us only sending two zombies in at a time.

So no, I don't personally think that 'everyone' or even 'almost everyone' could handle a purely theoretical zombie apocalypse without unlimited ammunition.

[Jay R]

A zombie cow would be absolutely horrifying...

The second or third Howard the Duck comic book story involved a vampire cow.

--------------

A zombie apocalypse is not a big problem. Just stockpile a good supply of brains, and make sure you pick the winning side.

[noparlpf]

This is actually (and you might find this surprising) entirely incorrect.

I'm not saying this to be mean or a jerk, and I have reasoning, so I'll explain where I'm coming from.

TL:DR - Helped an international professor of arms hold a combat course on zombie self-defense, and everyone failed.

So here we are, at a geek event in New Jersey. The schedule has on it a presentation on zombie self-defense by a particular professor of arms, and he approaches my friends and I to help him, since we've worked with him in the past and get along pretty well with his crew.

So he give a 45-minute presentation on how to fight zombies, using various hand weapons. Axe, machete, bat, and crowbar were among the weapons covered. Emphasis was on the idea that a zombie shambling towards you with arms extended has one aim, that being to grab you and pull you in for eating. To fight properly and avoid death or biting, you have to evade that threat zone while counter-attacking. For those of us with some semblance of martial training (which doesn't just mean having done some martial arts, I have a different personal standard when it comes to martial training, but that's another story), this is second nature, because when fighting with knife, saber, bayonet, whatever, you ensure the threat is neutralized either before or as you make your own attack.

The problem is that without that training, you resort to the direct line of attack. "I'm different" you might think, but at a geek event full of people who are undoubtedly genre-savvy, nobody was different. Not even the black-belt karate instructor (who I personally 'bit' by making contact with the painted rubber teeth wired to my fencing mask as he lay under another dead zombie). So what would happen is people would approach the zombies directly and aggressively, make a 12 o' clock headshot that -MIGHT- damage or destroy the brain, but the human skull is very hard for a reason. We gave them the benefit and assumed that a headshot was a kill, but now you have deadweight zombie falling towards you with arms outstretched, and you are in his threat zone. Everyone, and I mean everyone, approached the zombies like they had the hammer in Smash Brothers and went down under corpses until a shambler finished them off.

And that was with us only sending two zombies in at a time.

So no, I don't personally think that 'everyone' or even 'almost everyone' could handle a purely theoretical zombie apocalypse without unlimited ammunition.

I think I'd probably go for the arms first just out of the habit of batting away projecting objects coming in my direction. Then a good sideways swing at the head and either moving away or kicking it away.

Maybe next time I get to my old school I'll try to arrange a boffing-zombie game and see how it goes. Like a modified version of zombie tag, with weapons.

[warty goblin]

This is actually (and you might find this surprising) entirely incorrect.

I'm not saying this to be mean or a jerk, and I have reasoning, so I'll explain where I'm coming from.

TL:DR - Helped an international professor of arms hold a combat course on zombie self-defense, and everyone failed.

So here we are, at a geek event in New Jersey. The schedule has on it a presentation on zombie self-defense by a particular professor of arms, and he approaches my friends and I to help him, since we've worked with him in the past and get along pretty well with his crew.

So he give a 45-minute presentation on how to fight zombies, using various hand weapons. Axe, machete, bat, and crowbar were among the weapons covered. Emphasis was on the idea that a zombie shambling towards you with arms extended has one aim, that being to grab you and pull you in for eating. To fight properly and avoid death or biting, you have to evade that threat zone while counter-attacking. For those of us with some semblance of martial training (which doesn't just mean having done some martial arts, I have a different personal standard when it comes to martial training, but that's another story), this is second nature, because when fighting with knife, saber, bayonet, whatever, you ensure the threat is neutralized either before or as you make your own attack.

The problem is that without that training, you resort to the direct line of attack. "I'm different" you might think, but at a geek event full of people who are undoubtedly genre-savvy, nobody was different. Not even the black-belt karate instructor (who I personally 'bit' by making contact with the painted rubber teeth wired to my fencing mask as he lay under another dead zombie). So what would happen is people would approach the zombies directly and aggressively, make a 12 o' clock headshot that -MIGHT- damage or destroy the brain, but the human skull is very hard for a reason. We gave them the benefit and assumed that a headshot was a kill, but now you have deadweight zombie falling towards you with arms outstretched, and you are in his threat zone. Everyone, and I mean everyone, approached the zombies like they had the hammer in Smash Brothers and went down under corpses until a shambler finished them off.

And that was with us only sending two zombies in at a time.

So no, I don't personally think that 'everyone' or even 'almost everyone' could handle a purely theoretical zombie apocalypse without unlimited ammunition.

Interesting. Maybe the better solution is to tag-team the things. One person fixes them in the chest with a pitchfork, the other goes for the kill with a striking weapon from the flank. The human skull is tough, but a nine pound splitting maul hits very hard when swung with a bit of conviction.

[noparlpf]

Interesting. Maybe the better solution is to tag-team the things. One person fixes them in the chest with a pitchfork, the other goes for the kill with a striking weapon from the flank. The human skull is tough, but a nine pound splitting maul hits very hard when swung with a bit of conviction.

That's once you meet up with other survivors. Loads of us think we'd be fine solo.

[warty goblin]

That's once you meet up with other survivors. Loads of us think we'd be fine solo.

Yeah, that seems unlikely. Surviving solo even in an environment where a significant portion of the biomass isn't trying to eat your face is extraordinarily difficult; I know exactly enough about the subject to know I couldn't do it. Add the zombies and the hordes of genre-savvy nerds just itching to get their survivalist fantasies on and with no clue about actually using weapons or survival gear, and it'll be even harder. Fortunately inside a week most of the second group will have died of dehydration or else been turned into much less dangerous zombies.

So my plan? If I'm at school; fill the bathtub and all other available containers with water, bake bread nonstop until the power goes out, stack the furniture against the door, and hope the army shows up before the supplies give out.

If I'm home in the country, my family and I can probably survive without outside contact for several weeks at least. Between the canned food, garden produce if its summer, generator, solar panels, livestock and the bit where the population density is vastly lower, there's just a lot fewer threats to contend with. Plus we know most of the neighbors, and there's plenty of tools available for improvised weapons to save on ammo.

[Tylorious]

Just one rule guys. Never forget that a crowbar never needs to be reloaded.

[noparlpf]

Just one rule guys. Never forget that a crowbar never needs to be reloaded.

Or that it's a bit awkward to swing. An axe is easier to swing and is designed to break through hard things.

[Tylorious]

Or that it's a bit awkward to swing. An axe is easier to swing and is designed to break through hard things.

Yeah but axes will break after hitting enough things. Crowbars definitely won't.

[noparlpf]

Yeah but axes will break after hitting enough things. Crowbars definitely won't.

An axe will last a really long time. My dad's plastic-handled axe has lasted...probably close to ten years with this handle, and he uses it every fall/winter to chop wood. (He also uses the chainsaw and maul for some things, of course.)
Edit: Of course it does help to maintain the blade, but you don't have to sharpen it super-often.

[Tylorious]

An axe will last a really long time. My dad's plastic-handled axe has lasted...probably close to ten years with this handle, and he uses it every fall/winter to chop wood. (He also uses the chainsaw and maul for some things, of course.)
Edit: Of course it does help to maintain the blade, but you don't have to sharpen it super-often.

hmmm, that's assuming you will always and forever hit everything directly with the head of the axe. Impossible when swinging it horizontally at moving things. It will eventually break, and also can't be used as a tool while not in combat.

[Giggling Ghast]

If insects can transmit the zombie virus, you might as well just lay down and die. Don't worry, it won't last long.

[warty goblin]

Or that it's a bit awkward to swing. An axe is easier to swing and is designed to break through hard things.

Every crowbar I've ever used has been considerably easier to manage than most wood axes. They're also better designed for breaking things; an axe is meant for cutting and that's really it. Your standard crowbar works well for everything from wrenching things apart to smashing 2x4s into kindling through blunt force alone.

Now if you happen to have a tomahawk or other fighting/multipurpose axe, it's a different story. The standard felling axe you can buy in a hardware store would not be my first choice of weapon for soloing zombies. Even if the first swing dropped the first zombie, and the blade didn't become hopelessly mired in the head, the thing does not recover quickly.

[Traab]

Fighting zombies in hand to hand is desperation time anyways. You really really dont want to do it. Ideally, you dont "fight" zombies at all. If you must kill them, do it from range in a place of safety. The window of your second story apartment for example, with a rifle. Yeah its fun to talk about going Conan on the zombie hordes, your authentic replica sword of Anduril flashing in the sun as you cleave zombie heads, picturing yourself at the end standing on top of a pile of decapitated zombies yelling out how you are a sexy shoeless god of war, but its just not a good idea. And for more reasons than your cheap pot metal sword not being able to cut the mustard, let alone the neck or skull of a human without tearing out of the hilt, or snapping in half.

1) Wielding a weapon, ANY weapon capable of breaking a skull or decapitating a head with enough force to do that is tiring. Even if you have the ability to do it without getting bit, you will get tired fast.

2) What Mae said

3) They have no ranged ability, so why would you WANT to get in reach of their only weapon?

[noparlpf]

1) Wielding a weapon, ANY weapon capable of breaking a skull or decapitating a head with enough force to do that is tiring. Even if you have the ability to do it without getting bit, you will get tired fast.

2) What Mae said

3) They have no ranged ability, so why would you WANT to get in reach of their only weapon?

I've chopped wood for an entire day before and it's doable if a pain. But ideally you'd be moving carefully and not encountering whole hordes, just a few at a time at most. Anyway, how do I find a ranged weapon if I don't go outside? The closest to a ranged weapon I have here is my flatmate—I send him outside to fight for me.

[Metahuman1]

I don't know if this applies in other country's, but,

Citys have people, supplies, and weapons, in abundance. I like my odds grouping up with other armed people who have access to food, shelter, communications supplies, transportation and other helpful things facing down a hoard better then I do trying to solo it.

[Traab]

I've chopped wood for an entire day before and it's doable if a pain. But ideally you'd be moving carefully and not encountering whole hordes, just a few at a time at most. Anyway, how do I find a ranged weapon if I don't go outside? The closest to a ranged weapon I have here is my flatmate—I send him outside to fight for me.

To get guns and ammo, all I can say is first you need speed (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0GdQyIm7DU)

Get a bike, a good old fashioned mountain bike or whatever. Plan out your route and at least 3 detours just in case. You cant afford to stop and think while making the sprint to the nearest gun and ammo shop. Shamblers are easy to avoid, assuming they havent formed the city sized mob yet. Sprinters are going to be rough, but on a bike you can outpace them, and if you are lucky and careful, you can avoid them.

As for swinging an axe all day, yes, standing still, making the same motion, chopping wood, you can do it just fine. But I dont think even a mighty lumberjack like you would be able to maintain a frantic pace for very long cleaving skulls. Dont forget the danger of missing. If you dont strike square on the skull, you might just glance off and now he is in your personal space.

[noparlpf]

As for swinging an axe all day, yes, standing still, making the same motion, chopping wood, you can do it just fine. But I dont think even a mighty lumberjack like you would be able to maintain a frantic pace for very long cleaving skulls. Dont forget the danger of missing. If you dont strike square on the skull, you might just glance off and now he is in your personal space.

I've also been in faux combat and there're usually breaks in between skirmishes. The world won't be covered in a uniformly distributed sheet of zombies.

[Traab]

I've also been in faux combat and there're usually breaks in between skirmishes. The world won't be covered in a uniformly distributed sheet of zombies.

True, but in this case, unless you already have friends, every enemy combatant in the area will come directly after you until they eat you or you run out of people to kill. And while against humans a wound can work for breathing space, no such luck here. It had better be one hit, one kill, or you will get swarmed under. So your aim had better be perfect every time, or you are going to die. As the saying goes, you have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once. A glancing blow, an arm gets in the way enough to keep it from smashing the skull, hell, your axe gets hung up for a second or two too long in a zombie skull. There are a lot of ways to die trying to fight in hand to hand.

[warty goblin]

True, but in this case, unless you already have friends, every enemy combatant in the area will come directly after you until they eat you or you run out of people to kill. And while against humans a wound can work for breathing space, no such luck here. It had better be one hit, one kill, or you will get swarmed under. So your aim had better be perfect every time, or you are going to die. As the saying goes, you have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once. A glancing blow, an arm gets in the way enough to keep it from smashing the skull, hell, your axe gets hung up for a second or two too long in a zombie skull. There are a lot of ways to die trying to fight in hand to hand.

If they're coming at you that fast, you're screwed even if you're packing serious heat. Unless you live at the gun range, you aren't going to be putting bullets between zombie eyes with every shot. And you'd better hope you brought enough filled magazines, because have fun reloading if you run out.

[Metahuman1]

True, but in this case, unless you already have friends, every enemy combatant in the area will come directly after you until they eat you or you run out of people to kill. And while against humans a wound can work for breathing space, no such luck here. It had better be one hit, one kill, or you will get swarmed under. So your aim had better be perfect every time, or you are going to die. As the saying goes, you have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once. A glancing blow, an arm gets in the way enough to keep it from smashing the skull, hell, your axe gets hung up for a second or two too long in a zombie skull. There are a lot of ways to die trying to fight in hand to hand.

Not quite, a strike with blunt force trauma to certain parts of the body will by necessity of the laws of kinetic energy force a zombie to stop it's forward advancement/stumble back some.

For example, kick him in the pelvic girdle and he'll be forced back a couple of steps. Take a step back or two yourself, and boom, room to breath, take aim and swing again at the head.

[Milo v3]

Main worry with fighting zombies is that there are basically no firearms in australia. So melee weapons and running are the only options if zombies arise.

Add that with the fact that if your within range of a zombie horde your probably going to be dead rather quickly and your screwed.

[banthesun]

From the title of htis thread I presumed it was going to be about muggings or similar crimes. Now I'm left feeling silly :smallsigh:

[noparlpf]

True, but in this case, unless you already have friends, every enemy combatant in the area will come directly after you until they eat you or you run out of people to kill. And while against humans a wound can work for breathing space, no such luck here. It had better be one hit, one kill, or you will get swarmed under. So your aim had better be perfect every time, or you are going to die. As the saying goes, you have to be lucky every time, they only have to be lucky once. A glancing blow, an arm gets in the way enough to keep it from smashing the skull, hell, your axe gets hung up for a second or two too long in a zombie skull. There are a lot of ways to die trying to fight in hand to hand.

If there are that many zombies then I'm screwed no matter what and I'm not going to be outside anyway. Assuming zombies have to rely on human senses, unaffected by decay (give them the best scenario), your best bet is stealth, and you shouldn't run into literal hordes of zombies.

[Juggling Goth]

I've been thinking about how I'd look after my chickens during the zombie apocalypse, because that's just how my brain works. First I'd have to successfully argue with the other survivors that an animal that makes eggs and high-quality garden manure every day is more valuable alive than dead. Then I think I'd have to feed them on grass, weeds, slugs and snails (with the snail shells for the calcium).

[Cristo Meyers]

I've been thinking about how I'd look after my chickens during the zombie apocalypse, because that's just how my brain works. First I'd have to successfully argue with the other survivors that an animal that makes eggs and high-quality garden manure every day is more valuable alive than dead. Then I think I'd have to feed them on grass, weeds, slugs and snails (with the snail shells for the calcium).

What about the pest bugs from the garden? You're going to need some way to keep them out without pesticides. Keeps the plants free of pests and the chickens fed.

[Traab]

Main worry with fighting zombies is that there are basically no firearms in australia. So melee weapons and running are the only options if zombies arise.

Add that with the fact that if your within range of a zombie horde your probably going to be dead rather quickly and your screwed.

Bah, its AUSTRALIA. The zombies would be wiped out the moment they start heading north. :smalltongue:

[Sabeki]

Even worse: Zombie germs. In the air you can breathe in. Can't see them. Can't kill them. All you can do is wait. And hope. And then die.

[Karoht]

There are precisely two reasons why I'm not looking forward to a Zombie outbreak scenario. I'm not worried about it, but I'm not looking forward to it. Here's why:

1-In a city, stores are going to be ransacked immediately for supplies. Now I like to think I have a good stockpile, but you never no how poorly prepared you are until something bad happens. However, there is one trick I will share with everyone.
The place that is most likely to still have food and the least likely to be ransacked thoroughly is... The Pet Store.
No seriously. Pet food is non-perishable (in cans or dry feed), if you look at the ingredients it has a lot of what you need. You wouldn't want to be on it long term, but in a pinch it is still better than starving to death, and probably better for you than beans and beef jerky.
Still, I'm not exactly looking forward to having my supplies run out and stopping to consider investigating the local pet store. That is definitely not something I would want to do.

2-Shooting zombies or people. I don't like hurting people. I'm sure I wouldn't want to hurt a bunch of zombies unless it was life or death. I'm still going to fight to survive, I just doubt that it's going to be something fun. Sure, maybe that one time I pick up a machine gun and mow down a pack of walkers will feel incredible, but I know I'll feel bad about it later.
And real people? Well, I want to shoot them even less. Honestly, in a zombie outbreak, I'm more afraid of running into real people and having to deal with the possibility of shooting someone, because they will shoot me for that can of beans that MIGHT be in my backpack. Sure, I'm willing to share, I'm willing to talk to people to solve problems. I'm reasonable. Disasters do things to people, make them unreasonable, make them unable to solve problems by talking things out. Some feel justified in shooting first and asking questions later.

So for those reason, my plan A is get out of town and head to places I know which are remote. If you live near a ski hill I recommend it, as very few people will think to go there. Logging roads are a good choice as well if you have the kind of vehicle that can handle it.
Plan B is stay in town, find a place that is high and quiet, but have a white flag raised high and clear.

[4here4]

I'm not worried about a zombie outbreak, because if it happens, I'm going to find myself woefully unprepared no matter what. And, if I do become infected, I don't think I'm going to care that much.http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g68/Cats_Are_Aliens/Banners/Zombie.png

[Jay R]

I've been thinking about how I'd look after my chickens during the zombie apocalypse, because that's just how my brain works. First I'd have to successfully argue with the other survivors that an animal that makes eggs and high-quality garden manure every day is more valuable alive than dead. Then I think I'd have to feed them on grass, weeds, slugs and snails (with the snail shells for the calcium).

Just wait 'til the second day, and then feed them brains.

[Milo v3]

Bah, its AUSTRALIA. The zombies would be wiped out the moment they start heading north. :smalltongue:

The greatest weapon of Australia is that everything from a snake to grass to some rocks are poisonous, pretty zombies don't care about poison. :smalltongue:

[Coidzor]

Even worse: Zombie germs. In the air you can breathe in. Can't see them. Can't kill them. All you can do is wait. And hope. And then die.

If it's airborne and virulent for any real length of time greater than any other disease then it's just rocks fall, everyone dies.

[Isamu Dyson]

I'd be more worried about Paranoid Maxine with her AR-15 variant than a typical shambler...

[TuggyNE]

One thing I'd be interested in trying in a zombie attack is suiting up in full plate or similar full-body armor and going out with a decent-ish weapon to whack at them. That'd remove nearly all the risk of zombies, since without specialized weapons, absurdly superhuman strength, or a good bit of manual dexterity and smarts, there's essentially no way you can kill someone in full plate. Of course, it might be pretty claustrophobic if you get surrounded for a while, and it's possible the effort of moving and whacking would tire you out something fierce. Still, an interesting idea.

Bonus if you use some sort of high-impact plastic for the helmet's faceplate, removing the "stick through the bars" tactic from workability.

[Traab]

One thing I'd be interested in trying in a zombie attack is suiting up in full plate or similar full-body armor and going out with a decent-ish weapon to whack at them. That'd remove nearly all the risk of zombies, since without specialized weapons, absurdly superhuman strength, or a good bit of manual dexterity and smarts, there's essentially no way you can kill someone in full plate. Of course, it might be pretty claustrophobic if you get surrounded for a while, and it's possible the effort of moving and whacking would tire you out something fierce. Still, an interesting idea.

Bonus if you use some sort of high-impact plastic for the helmet's faceplate, removing the "stick through the bars" tactic from workability.

The problem with this is stamina loss and being immobilized. While it would work fine on small groups, against large numbers you would be dog piled eventually. And trying to run around in 60 pounds of articulated steel or whatever would tire you out faster, making it harder to dodge or otherwise avoid incoming zombies. And once flat on your back under a pile of undead, eventually something is going to give way.

[TuggyNE]

The problem with this is stamina loss and being immobilized. While it would work fine on small groups, against large numbers you would be dog piled eventually. And trying to run around in 60 pounds of articulated steel or whatever would tire you out faster, making it harder to dodge or otherwise avoid incoming zombies. And once flat on your back under a pile of undead, eventually something is going to give way.

Yeah, it works best if you have a good means of retreat. There's no way you can tank all the zombies ever, but you can certainly give a good accounting.

Now, an actual tank would be still better, since as long as you have fuel you can get stuff done.

[Juggling Goth]

Now, an actual tank would be still better, since as long as you have fuel you can get stuff done.

Tank Girl Vs Zombies. I need to see this. Anyone got Alan Martin's contact details?

I suspect that in real life, the problem with using a tank in a zombie-infested city is that all the roads would be blocked. Tanks are big. Someone needs to invent the armoured bicycle.

[Traab]

Tank Girl Vs Zombies. I need to see this. Anyone got Alan Martin's contact details?

I suspect that in real life, the problem with using a tank in a zombie-infested city is that all the roads would be blocked. Tanks are big. Someone needs to invent the armoured bicycle.

So what we really need is a tank on Bigfoot wheels. Roads are blocked? Who cares?! We have tires bigger than entire vehicles with treads thicker than my arm. Go straight over them.

As for an armored bike, the problem with that is, the advantage of a bike is that its light quiet and fast. Add armor to it and its no longer any of those things.

[rs2excelsior]

I've always thought the best bet for survival would be going by boat. Most zombie incarnations don't seem to be able to swim. Unfortunately I don't live on the coast, but a deep river should at least help some.

Oh, and regarding plate armor or some such, it would be very tiring, and soon a zombie would get lucky and manage to get a piece loose. Then you die.

[Traab]

I've always thought the best bet for survival would be going by boat. Most zombie incarnations don't seem to be able to swim. Unfortunately I don't live on the coast, but a deep river should at least help some.

Oh, and regarding plate armor or some such, it would be very tiring, and soon a zombie would get lucky and manage to get a piece loose. Then you die.

Boats arent perfect. Zombies are human bodies, and human bodies are pretty buoyant. Not sure how long it would take them to get waterlogged and sink, but at least staying in water 10 feet deep or more could work. I dont think they would be especially effective while floating, and if you are 10 feet above the bottom of the water, they cant reach up and grab you or your boat. Biggest issue might be floaters caught in a current going past you and latching onto your ride. Or reaching a section of river/lake bottom shallow enough for them to grab you.

[Karoht]

Rail is a pretty decent method of travel when it comes to zombies. Crushes just about anything in it's path, even the odd car that ends up on the tracks. The cars are pretty sturdy, and easily barricaded at the entrances. Windows are easily boarded up or barred or barricaded as well.
Also, the tracks are not necessarily all going to run through populated areas, some railway lines completely dodge whole towns. So you have very long distances which will likely be zombie free.

Threats:
-Barricade or rock slide on the tracks. Ranging from a multi-car pile-up at a train intersection, to an intentional barricade set by humans, to railcars just left on the tracks and abandoned. Clearing said obstacles will make you and the train vulnerable. Some such obstacles might not be removeable, so now you're stuck out in the middle of no where, forced to proceed on foot.
-Train cars are pretty noisy. You might attract trouble. Now sure, that trouble might never catch you, or you might plow right over/through it.
-Rail yards are often inside major city centers. And chances are high you will have to change tracks or adjust in some manner when you get there.
-Stopping inside a tunnel is NOT an option. Ever. It just isn't. If you do, you're probably dead.

More Good News:
-Most railway lines terminate at seaport shipping yards. Which means you could potentially go from rail to boat in relatively short order.
-Rail cars can carry large amounts of supplies. Including whole cars, even a boat.

[noparlpf]

Rail is a pretty decent method of travel when it comes to zombies. Crushes just about anything in it's path, even the odd car that ends up on the tracks. The cars are pretty sturdy, and easily barricaded at the entrances. Windows are easily boarded up or barred or barricaded as well.
Also, the tracks are not necessarily all going to run through populated areas, some railway lines completely dodge whole towns. So you have very long distances which will likely be zombie free.

Threats:
-Barricade or rock slide on the tracks. Ranging from a multi-car pile-up at a train intersection, to an intentional barricade set by humans, to railcars just left on the tracks and abandoned. Clearing said obstacles will make you and the train vulnerable. Some such obstacles might not be removeable, so now you're stuck out in the middle of no where, forced to proceed on foot.
-Train cars are pretty noisy. You might attract trouble. Now sure, that trouble might never catch you, or you might plow right over/through it.
-Rail yards are often inside major city centers. And chances are high you will have to change tracks or adjust in some manner when you get there.
-Stopping inside a tunnel is NOT an option. Ever. It just isn't. If you do, you're probably dead.

More Good News:
-Most railway lines terminate at seaport shipping yards. Which means you could potentially go from rail to boat in relatively short order.
-Rail cars can carry large amounts of supplies. Including whole cars, even a boat.

More bad news: Most trains these days are powered by electricity.

[Karoht]

More bad news: Most trains these days are powered by electricity.Inside a city? Yes. Inbetween cities? I thought those were mostly diesel now.

[noparlpf]

Inside a city? Yes. Inbetween cities? I thought those were mostly diesel now.

I think most of the Metro North lines in NY have overhead cables. Wouldn't know about anywhere else.

[Astral Avenger]

Inside a city? Yes. Inbetween cities? I thought those were mostly diesel now.

I believe they're primarily diesel-electric now, so as long as they have a full fuel tank to begin with, you can probably go coast to coast in the US without stopping to refuel (that being said, I don't know the mpg or fuel tank volume of typical trains)

[Topus]

I was wondering how many time will pass before electric power lines collapse, and before the web collapses.

[Traab]

Trains would be hella dangerous once they stop. Do you remember how much noise they make when they stop?! Every zombie within a couple miles of the station will likely start heading your way as soon as you stop moving. Better make your track switch and refuel fast and efficient, and pray there arent many already at the station to deal with first. Also, you mentioned blockades and such, you are aware that trains dont stop fast right? If there is a blockade of some sort, chances are you and everyone on the train will die because you wont be able to stop before hitting it and that will knock the entire train off the tracks.

[Cristo Meyers]

I was wondering how many time will pass before electric power lines collapse, and before the web collapses.

Can't imagine it would be long, especially in areas with primarily above-ground power lines. All if would take would be one good storm to knock over a power line, and with no one to maintain them that'd pretty much be it. Though whether the power plants themselves would even be operating would be debatable.

[JustSomeGuy]

Guys, you do know that almost all main battle tanks can go straight over cars and vans, right?

[Karoht]

Trains would be hella dangerous once they stop. Do you remember how much noise they make when they stop?! Every zombie within a couple miles of the station will likely start heading your way as soon as you stop moving. Better make your track switch and refuel fast and efficient, and pray there arent many already at the station to deal with first. Also, you mentioned blockades and such, you are aware that trains dont stop fast right? If there is a blockade of some sort, chances are you and everyone on the train will die because you wont be able to stop before hitting it and that will knock the entire train off the tracks.
Two points:
1-If I am going to drive a train anywhere, I'm going to take it slow and steady in the first place. Particularly for the reasoning of such barricades being likely. Also, mass being a factor in stopping distance, I'm going to use as few cars as possible.
2-For pulling into a station/rail yard, I would do my best to coast in, rather than slam on brakes, mostly for the reasons of minimizing noise. Still going to produce noise though, but less is good.

[Wardog]

I don't know if this applies in other country's, but,

Citys have people, supplies, and weapons, in abundance.

That probably depends on the nation. Assuming you mean firearms, I expect that in the UK you'll probably have an easier time finding weapons (or someone who knows where to find them) in the countryside. (Unless you have blackmarket contacts).

[sktarq]

shouldn't this be the "Dangers of city unliving" thread now?

[Tylorious]

shouldn't this be the "Dangers of city unliving" thread now?

I would say yes :smalltongue: