Setting brainstorming

[Talya]

I have had an idea buzzing around my head for some time and two or three people who like the idea, but it has never solidified into something solid. It's quite hazy...

My intention is to someday play on online (PbP or chat) adult oriented sandbox game. By "Adult Oriented," I mean a few things. Mature, certainly. I don't mean people going around doing things specifically for teenage shock value, but I do mean anything goes. Evil could be as evil as it wanted to be. Sex is a part of life, it would be in the game. Nothing would be off limits. Of course, such a setting requires people comfortable with each other and with a certain level of maturity and storytelling/dramatic flair. That's all fine.

What I haven't yet been able to decide is the setting.

I'm considering abandoning my usual desert/jungle/tropical places in favor of a more nordic setting, savage, where the weather itself is unforgiving for 8 months of the year. I do like D&D's kitchen-sink high fantasy approach, and would probably use pathfinder with a few additions to build it. But I have had some kind of brain block thinking of anything appealling to me for the concept.

I guess i'm just looking for ideas, more than anything. Plot concepts, setting ideas. They can be small ideas that would integrate into another setting, or large grandiose ideas that an entire setting would key off of. I want to hijack your imaginations for my own inspiration, if you'll allow it.

[Ortesk]

Sounds like the world im gonna run soon. Largely Unsettled, harsh frigid frsts, scorching deserts to the south, snow topped peaks to the utter north, prone to avalanches. Food is scarce, people get strong or die. Giants roam the landscape, people are largely self governed due to fear of leaving the safety of there homesteads. Is that along the lines you have in mind?

[Talya]

Sounds like the world im gonna run soon. Largely Unsettled, harsh frigid frsts, scorching deserts to the south, snow topped peaks to the utter north, prone to avalanches. Food is scarce, people get strong or die. Giants roam the landscape, people are largely self governed due to fear of leaving the safety of there homesteads. Is that along the lines you have in mind?

Perhaps, although there needs to be a large central social hub, a city of sorts. Social intrigue will definitely be a part of the game, as well as urban crime. (It needs everything.) It's just that the wilderness outside of it will be brutal and unforgivingly cold and wild and untamed.

(See, even your post was useful aready. I didn't even have that idea solidified in my mind until right now.)

[Red Fel]

Perhaps, although there needs to be a large central social hub, a city of sorts. Social intrigue will definitely be a part of the game, as well as urban crime. (It needs everything.) It's just that the wilderness outside of it will be brutal and unforgivingly cold and wild and untamed.

(See, even your post was useful aready. I didn't even have that idea solidified in my mind until right now.)

My advice? Step one is to close your eyes. Visualize what you'd like to see your characters doing. When you see them acting, zoom out. Look around. Where are they? This is starting to sound like a deodorant commercial.

Build from that organic point. If they are in a building, what kind of building? Describe the people around them. The furnishings. The architecture. Are there windows? How's the weather outside? Snowing? Sunny? Are torches lit? What's the time of day? Describe the roads outside. Are they paved, dirt, cobblestone, covered in snow, rain, leaves? Look across the street at the outside of the buildings. Are they stone, wood, metal? Lavish, simple, manors, huts? Carved into a rock face or cut from a living tree? From there, build the entire town/city/etc.

If they're not in a building, where are they? A campsite? A glade? By a river? In a cave? Expand from there.

It sounds like you already have an idea of what kind of game you want to have your characters playing. You have a vision. Just zoom out and I think you'll get a pretty good idea of what your vision looks like.

EDIT: And I just realized you're looking for plot ideas, not just setting. Well, depending on how your city is built, obviously it will have to be urban-focused, particularly if the weather keeps people indoors for long periods. Trade will be vital, because inhospitable lands must either rely on trade for raw goods or find ways to grow crops indoors. (Feel like eating cave fungus?) Mysteries could be fun, but powerful divinations take the fun out of those in a hurry. Diplomacy games are actually quite effective when played online, as they require little combat and allow you to really paint vivid pictures of personalities between posts.

[Ortesk]

Perhaps, although there needs to be a large central social hub, a city of sorts. Social intrigue will definitely be a part of the game, as well as urban crime. (It needs everything.) It's just that the wilderness outside of it will be brutal and unforgivingly cold and wild and untamed.

(See, even your post was useful aready. I didn't even have that idea solidified in my mind until right now.)

My players will have to do alot of RP to unite the scattered keeps against a threat coming, by making deals which may or may not be in there best interest. You can naturally say your people have adapted to the harsh landscape, using alot of frostburn aid. I had to figure out how can people live without much in the way of good trees for fire. So i made the houses halfway buried for extra insulation, also side sources of heat, such as you guessed it cow patties, were actually harvested for heat, along with animal fat. In a world this harsh, things are scarce and killing even an animal is a way to make money and connections. This also lets you throw the dnd world off its tracks and make bartering a very real alternative to gold. How good is gold when the city needs meat but lacks the warriors to bring down the game?

[Tim Proctor]

Sounds like game of thrones to me.

I would imagine that you could get a good setting from the Frostburn, Stromwrack, and Core books easily.

Then have 4 major kingdoms based on medival England, Celtic, Nordic and Russian cultures. This would make raiding warfare a more realistic scenario instead of armies, allow for the harsh environments of water and cold, and distances and wilderness to be the focal point. Also gives large cities and such for games of court.

So I would roll randomly for alliances and trade agreements and such.

Also put that 2 of the kingdoms share the same religion and two have independant, giving churches, paladins, etc lots of motivation for reaching out and touching people.

The expansions of cities for the Celts could be a big issue if their populous was ranger/druids and that would create tensions with their southern city folk.

[Ortesk]

One reality is that one keep, one nation, may have taken the best hunting grounds and such and may not be really kind about giving what they shed blood for. Enter down trodden lands needing aid in collapsing the land from the inside, and will name the players heros or give them some awe inspiring relic for there trouble. Now players must play double agents, which should give you so much RP hooks that even the fighters would be into it

[Talya]

This is good stuff.

@Red - Nice approach. I'll think more about it.
@Tim - you're absolutely right. I hadn't made the connection to Game of Thrones in my mind, but ... yes. I don't want that setting, but that's precisely the feel i'm going for.

@Ortesk - I did have this idea in my mind that this stronghold might be the last bastion of civilization in the land, holding out against some barbarian/orcish/demonic/undead/{insert miscellaneous baddies here} threat and forming a bulwark against it protecting the small hamlets that are on the other side, all while maintaining a veneer of high society. But I'm not adamant about that.

[Palanan]

Allow me to suggest something else--rather than the standard Nordic mountains-and-dark-forests approach, try something closer to the Siberian tundra, with immense reaches of open landscape, pocked by countless lakes and bogs, with stretches of evergreens on long ridges of higher ground.

I read a book about the Graf Zeppelin last year, which described their progress over Siberia and the incredible landscape of forests, bogs, lakes and tundra they passed over, with a rare tendril of smoke rising from an isolated hut. It's ancient, wild, a landscape stretching beyond all ordinary concepts of distance, with chill rivers winding on and on.

And beyond this--Siberia is the home of classic shamanism, especially with a bird motif, and you could really take off from there.

.

[Tim Proctor]

Well with a GoT environment, I'd go E6 setting, to allow for more death.

I'd limit the books, to strive to a more wilderness/martial theme... how to do that specifically would be another issue.

As far as plot goes I'd try to keep it to under 10 major organizations, and keep them spread apart with a few exceptions like churches, massive trade organizations, etc. I'd figure that you'd have 4 major Cities/Capitals and everything else would be smaller hamlets and such. Three major churches (limiting Clerics to those domains, which will limit clerics a lot). Then 2 economically focused organizations.

I think that a Viking/Iron Isles type kingdom would be awesome, something where people make their living from harsh farming but mostly raiding. I'd have them very remote in an archipelago of frozen craggy rocks, which keeps them mostly safe from the retaliation of the other Kingdoms. I'd limit the races to those listed on SW p 43. These people would probably have their own god/religion I'd probably go with Nordic because that's fleshed out in the Deities and Demigods book.

I also think that a Russian, Ivan the Terrible, Kingdom would be cool, something also harsh and unforgiving surrounded by the massive ice floes, mountains, and tundra wastelands. I would put them on the largest of the island/continents but have most of it barren and most the cities towards the coasts and areas towards the capital. I would have these people worship the traditional Pantheon. I'd probably limit them to the races on FB p 32.

I think an English style Kingdom would be awesome, in better suited farming lands and such, but have them on a smaller Island (but still large), and in the middle of all of them. I'd probably make this the most core out of all the areas, however I would split them from their northern neighbors based on what classes they chose.

A Celtic collection of tribes close by but on a separate island to the English kingdom would have the majority of barbarians, rangers, entirety of druids, etc. and other like classes. I would have them also have an alternate religious system, probably all nature aspects or something.

I would have the Core church be just like described, the Nordic church like describe, and the Druidic religion be its own thing also. With all of them fighting against the spread of others. The Core would want to spread, have Paladins burn churches/temples of the others, forcibly convert towns on smaller islands, burn people at the stake, etc. The Nordic would be, well what they are, and raid, kill, have fun, etc. The Druidic would destroy settlements larger than a few hundred as atrocities to nature, etc. Should create enough tension there.

For economic organizations I'd have a trade organization similar to the East India Company, it conducts trade between the four nations, doesn't get involved in church affairs, but does try to stir up trouble in the relations between the kingdoms and churches so that they can maximize on trade and ensure a military industrial complex. I'd assume that they dislike the Celtic nations because they make trade the hardest and stirring up tensions between the other two and the celtic tribes would be one of their main goals.

I'd also have a criminal organization, a collection of mob bosses in the city and pirates on the ocean, and brigands in the wilderness. Basically a loose treaty between them over turf, interests, information sharing, etc. I would have them be non-denominational meaning doesn't matter what kingdom/religion people are from, but what they do for the organization and to keep the kingdoms out of their affairs. These guys would be the main adversary of the company above.

Throw in corrupt and crooked officials in kingdoms, churches, spies, traitors, etc. and you got a fairly filled out setting.

[dascarletm]

As far as your plot, since it is a sandbox game I'd wait until you get a feel of what your players want to do before you generate too much of a plot. Suppose you have 4 "theaters" where the players could end up spending the majority of their time: The large city/capital urban theater, the frozen Russia like continent theater, the Nordic isles theater, and the English kingdoms theater.

I'd make a general outline/storyboard for each theater. Then track the progression of major events as they would occur barring the characters influence. Then think of a few obvious things the players could do to change these events in each step, and build another tree from there. Don't go too crazy unless you want to spend your whole weekend at it :smallwink:. Then when you find out what areas they want to play in, go more in detail, and see if anything they can do there will change the flow of the other plot progressions. You now can have news coming in from around the world of other major events happening. It may inspire them to move theaters.

(PS your post inspired me. Thanks):smallbiggrin:

[Tim Proctor]

Oh BTW if this is a PbP game I'm totally in.

[Segev]

Probably not helpful here, but you did ask for snippets of ideas. One thing I've toyed with but never been able to write a story around, and had even more difficulty thinking of how to mechanically handle, is a "cost to spellcasting" mechanic.

I'm sure you've seen in some fictions the concept of magic "consuming your life force." It's the limiting factor that's supposed to keep most people from abusing it, and often is portrayed in those who abuse it anyway as rapid aging. i.e., use magic, and you get older faster than normal.

But what if that was reversed? What if the "life force" you consume is something you build up as you get older, and that built-up energy is what makes you more mature? An excess of it eventually wears you down; hence you die of old age. Spellcasting, then, actually makes you YOUNGER.

It seems, on the surface, a pure blessing. Not only do I get to use powers beyond the ken of mortals, but I get to be young and energetic as a consequence? But stop and think about it. There's a definite lower bound on how young you can get. And even before then, do you REALLY want to be a teen again? A pre-teen? A child? When you've burned your magic out to that degree, how long do you go without using it before you're happy with your age? How much do you control yourself? Do you use it but lightly, so you age more slowly and remain "weak" longer? Or do you use it not at all so that you age at the same rate as anybody else?


Still, both "aging" and "youthening" as a cost for spellcasting is hard to build into a game mechanic for a playable game.

[Ortesk]

Probably not helpful here, but you did ask for snippets of ideas. One thing I've toyed with but never been able to write a story around, and had even more difficulty thinking of how to mechanically handle, is a "cost to spellcasting" mechanic.

I'm sure you've seen in some fictions the concept of magic "consuming your life force." It's the limiting factor that's supposed to keep most people from abusing it, and often is portrayed in those who abuse it anyway as rapid aging. i.e., use magic, and you get older faster than normal.

But what if that was reversed? What if the "life force" you consume is something you build up as you get older, and that built-up energy is what makes you more mature? An excess of it eventually wears you down; hence you die of old age. Spellcasting, then, actually makes you YOUNGER.

It seems, on the surface, a pure blessing. Not only do I get to use powers beyond the ken of mortals, but I get to be young and energetic as a consequence? But stop and think about it. There's a definite lower bound on how young you can get. And even before then, do you REALLY want to be a teen again? A pre-teen? A child? When you've burned your magic out to that degree, how long do you go without using it before you're happy with your age? How much do you control yourself? Do you use it but lightly, so you age more slowly and remain "weak" longer? Or do you use it not at all so that you age at the same rate as anybody else?


Still, both "aging" and "youthening" as a cost for spellcasting is hard to build into a game mechanic for a playable game.

Theres a spell which does that, allow you to become younger when you cast it. In my games ive added non lethal damage on spell casters, to dissuade the nova thing

[Segev]

Theres a spell which does that, allow you to become younger when you cast it. In my games ive added non lethal damage on spell casters, to dissuade the nova thing

There's a difference between a spell that "allows" you to become younger, and having the whole of the magic system have "become younger" as a cost of doing magic. The former is a boon, worth casting in its own right. You regain your youth! You obviously won't use it too often, but it doesn't interfere with anything else you want to do. The latter is a boon in the sense that, as a spellcaster, you likely won't ever die of old age. However, it's a legitimate cost, limiting how much magic you can use overall before having to wait a while. Use magic with casual frequency, and you're likely going to slowly drift downwards in age.

[Talya]

@ Segev: While that totally doesn't fit into my idea, the implications of it are fascinating.

(1) It explains the fairy-tale/fantasy moral that "magic is not something to be used lightly." The sorcerer's apprentice shouldn't use it to clean up the room because that's wasteful on a trivial item.

(2) Powerful Wizards are always old. Age is an asset. Once they hit a certain age, they probably cast just enough magic to stay there, but they do try to stay old, because that represents the potential to do more magic in an emergency... A young wizard is not powerful because they simply don't have enough years yet to get away with a lot of spellcasting.

I love it. It'd be awesome to use in a story.


(Just not this campaign.)

[nedz]

You need to think about the Geography first perhaps ?

Going with the Nordic thing, some options.

Norwegian Fjord.
Mountains all around, farms up and down the sides, most travel is by boat.
You could have a larger fishing port near the mouth, strange rocky islands off the coast.
Plenty of forest, mountains and sea.

Remote Island
Similar to the above, but ships come and go. You could even have them sail off into the blue.

Swedish Forest
Endless trees and lakes interconnected with rivers. Town by the lake.

Danish Flatlands
Quite boring, which is why the Viking left.

[Talya]

Home from work, time for some serious replies.


Allow me to suggest something else--rather than the standard Nordic mountains-and-dark-forests approach, try something closer to the Siberian tundra, with immense reaches of open landscape, pocked by countless lakes and bogs, with stretches of evergreens on long ridges of higher ground.

I read a book about the Graf Zeppelin last year, which described their progress over Siberia and the incredible landscape of forests, bogs, lakes and tundra they passed over, with a rare tendril of smoke rising from an isolated hut. It's ancient, wild, a landscape stretching beyond all ordinary concepts of distance, with chill rivers winding on and on.

And beyond this--Siberia is the home of classic shamanism, especially with a bird motif, and you could really take off from there.

.

Something I wouldn't have considered. I'm not keen on making it the only area of the setting, but it works for variety to make a similar area and culture part of the setting.



Well with a GoT environment, I'd go E6 setting, to allow for more death.

It'd be a modified P6, if I did that. (I have a few minor issues with PF, but generally prefer it to 3.5 these days.)



I'd limit the books, to strive to a more wilderness/martial theme... how to do that specifically would be another issue.

There are certainly elements of www.d20pfsrd.com that I'd make unavailable as "setting inappropriate."



As far as plot goes I'd try to keep it to under 10 major organizations, and keep them spread apart with a few exceptions like churches, massive trade organizations, etc. I'd figure that you'd have 4 major Cities/Capitals and everything else would be smaller hamlets and such. Three major churches (limiting Clerics to those domains, which will limit clerics a lot). Then 2 economically focused organizations.

With polytheistic pantheons, one church supports a lot of domains. I actually have an idea of making one of the religious groups monotheistic and violently intolerant to many things.

Hey...what if the advancing threat that this city was the last bastion against was a bunch of monotheistic crusaders setting all the infidels to the torch?



I think that a Viking/Iron Isles type kingdom would be awesome, something where people make their living from harsh farming but mostly raiding. I'd have them very remote in an archipelago of frozen craggy rocks, which keeps them mostly safe from the retaliation of the other Kingdoms. I'd limit the races to those listed on SW p 43. These people would probably have their own god/religion I'd probably go with Nordic because that's fleshed out in the Deities and Demigods book.

I also think that a Russian, Ivan the Terrible, Kingdom would be cool, something also harsh and unforgiving surrounded by the massive ice floes, mountains, and tundra wastelands. I would put them on the largest of the island/continents but have most of it barren and most the cities towards the coasts and areas towards the capital. I would have these people worship the traditional Pantheon. I'd probably limit them to the races on FB p 32.

I understand Norse culture well, and love it. I definitely would use aspects of it in some of the natives. Russians, I know far less about. Which isn't to say it's not a great idea...I have plenty of time. Perhaps I'll research it.



I think an English style Kingdom would be awesome, in better suited farming lands and such, but have them on a smaller Island (but still large), and in the middle of all of them. I'd probably make this the most core out of all the areas, however I would split them from their northern neighbors based on what classes they chose.

A Celtic collection of tribes close by but on a separate island to the English kingdom would have the majority of barbarians, rangers, entirety of druids, etc. and other like classes. I would have them also have an alternate religious system, probably all nature aspects or something.

Absolutely on both counts. Being Irish-Canadian myself (my parents are both from Belfast, actually), I have a bit of a soft spot for all things Gaelic.



I would have the Core church be just like described, the Nordic church like describe, and the Druidic religion be its own thing also. With all of them fighting against the spread of others. The Core would want to spread, have Paladins burn churches/temples of the others, forcibly convert towns on smaller islands, burn people at the stake, etc. The Nordic would be, well what they are, and raid, kill, have fun, etc. The Druidic would destroy settlements larger than a few hundred as atrocities to nature, etc. Should create enough tension there.

If I built a culture closely related to ancient pre-Christian Ireland, the Druids would be very different, actually.



For economic organizations I'd have a trade organization similar to the East India Company, it conducts trade between the four nations, doesn't get involved in church affairs, but does try to stir up trouble in the relations between the kingdoms and churches so that they can maximize on trade and ensure a military industrial complex. I'd assume that they dislike the Celtic nations because they make trade the hardest and stirring up tensions between the other two and the celtic tribes would be one of their main goals.

I'd also have a criminal organization, a collection of mob bosses in the city and pirates on the ocean, and brigands in the wilderness. Basically a loose treaty between them over turf, interests, information sharing, etc. I would have them be non-denominational meaning doesn't matter what kingdom/religion people are from, but what they do for the organization and to keep the kingdoms out of their affairs. These guys would be the main adversary of the company above.

I like it. I do have to be careful. I'm running a Forgotten Realms based Piratical campaign involving at least a couple of the potential participants in this. Flavorwise, I'd like to keep Piracy to a minimum, just to avoid repetition.



Throw in corrupt and crooked officials in kingdoms, churches, spies, traitors, etc. and you got a fairly filled out setting.

No good organizations. Lots of shades of gray, morality isn't easy. This is not a setting for paladins to take lightly.


As far as your plot, since it is a sandbox game I'd wait until you get a feel of what your players want to do before you generate too much of a plot. Suppose you have 4 "theaters" where the players could end up spending the majority of their time: The large city/capital urban theater, the frozen Russia like continent theater, the Nordic isles theater, and the English kingdoms theater.

I'd make a general outline/storyboard for each theater. Then track the progression of major events as they would occur barring the characters influence. Then think of a few obvious things the players could do to change these events in each step, and build another tree from there. Don't go too crazy unless you want to spend your whole weekend at it :smallwink:. Then when you find out what areas they want to play in, go more in detail, and see if anything they can do there will change the flow of the other plot progressions. You now can have news coming in from around the world of other major events happening. It may inspire them to move theaters.

(PS your post inspired me. Thanks):smallbiggrin:

I need to be careful not to make the world feel too big. The advancing enemy has taken most of it, the hub city would be the only major power unconquered, a last bastion of resistance.


Oh BTW if this is a PbP game I'm totally in.

It probably would be. I'll keep you in mind, though I have learned with PbP I have to keep the number of participants to a low/manageable level.


You need to think about the Geography first perhaps ?

Going with the Nordic thing, some options.

Norwegian Fjord.
Mountains all around, farms up and down the sides, most travel is by boat.
You could have a larger fishing port near the mouth, strange rocky islands off the coast.
Plenty of forest, mountains and sea.

Remote Island
Similar to the above, but ships come and go. You could even have them sail off into the blue.

Swedish Forest
Endless trees and lakes interconnected with rivers. Town by the lake.

Danish Flatlands
Quite boring, which is why the Viking left.

I'm one quarter Norwegian blood, my grandmother was born in Oslo. Even thinking about this is fun.

I'd likely have to amalgamate cultural influences I like, to keep the world small. The capital could be some fusion of Anglo/Germanic/Nordic/Russian culture. There would be purely Nordic Viking raiders, and some Siberian and Celtic dependant wilderness areas/villages...

[Tim Proctor]

With polytheistic pantheons, one church supports a lot of domains. I actually have an idea of making one of the religious groups monotheistic and violently intolerant to many things.

Hey...what if the advancing threat that this city was the last bastion against was a bunch of monotheistic crusaders setting all the infidels to the torch?
Totally, I think this is genius, I'd actually base it off the ancient Ottoman Empire during the Crusades. OR something like the Mongol Horde, I think Vikings vs. Mongols would be fun.

You could actually then differentiate the English/Russian based cultures to be separate religiously about who they believe to be the more holy, basically Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox style. So ones believes that the high priest of Pelor is the key and the other believes a lot more in the ritual of religion as the key. Minor differences but enough to create bad feelings, and such.

[Talya]

Totally, I think this is genius, I'd actually base it off the ancient Ottoman Empire during the Crusades. OR something like the Mongol Horde, I think Vikings vs. Mongols would be fun.

You could actually then differentiate the English/Russian based cultures to be separate religiously about who they believe to be the more holy, basically Roman Catholic, and Eastern Orthodox style. So ones believes that the high priest of Pelor is the key and the other believes a lot more in the ritual of religion as the key. Minor differences but enough to create bad feelings, and such.

Trying to research pre-Christian Russian culture is difficult...the Slavs apparently had no written language prior to conversion, so much like the Irish, a lot has been lost. They do appear to have worshipped a feminine "mother earth" (Mat Zemlya) type of deity above all others. This shouldn't surprise me, with Russia being one of the few nationalities that refers to their country as a "motherland."

I suppose that's irrelevant, here. I believe that the Witch class in pathfinder draws some of its ideas from Slavic mythology, but really, the walking hut thing is just too ridiculous for me to ever use.