Thinaun?

[Nexahs]

I've heard several references to a material called Thinaun, which supposedly has the ability to destroy souls. (I'm currently playing a demon hunter, so this interests me a great deal.) However, I haven't managed to find any of its specifics online or in any of the books I own. Can anyone tell me where to find it?

[rockdeworld]

Complete Warrior. It's "Thinuan". My source was wrong, it is thinaun.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Doesn't Tinaun trap the souls?

[Werephilosopher]

Doesn't Tinaun trap the souls?

Yep, it just traps them inside the weapon. Destroying the weapon may destroy the soul, however.

[Psyren]

Yep, it just traps them inside the weapon. Destroying the weapon may destroy the soul, however.

No, destroying the weapon frees the soul. In addition, if anyone new is trapped in the weapon the older soul is released to the afterlife.

[Pickford]

Yep, it just traps them inside the weapon. Destroying the weapon may destroy the soul, however.

Actually it's just a temporary harboring. If the weapon is destroyed or a new soul is sucked in, the soul that 'was' held is released. (edit: bah, immediate actioned)

The primary purpose appears to be making it easier to resurrect ones self...though I could see a scenario where you gift a thinaun dagger to someone that you've arcane marked, knowing they will die soon. Then you dwamij;s summons it to recover the soul and resurrect the person.

Great for faking ones own death with an accomplice.

[Psyren]

Actually it's just a temporary harboring. If the weapon is destroyed or a new soul is sucked in, the soul that 'was' held is released.

The primary purpose appears to be making it easier to resurrect ones self...though I could see a scenario where you gift a thinaun dagger to someone that you've arcane marked, knowing they will die soon. Then you dwamij;s summons it to recover the soul and resurrect the person.

Great for faking ones own death with an accomplice.

You still need the body though unless you're using TR; having the soul at hand makes it cheaper but doesn't remove that requirement.

[Ortesk]

As noted before, it merely traps the soul. However, it renders resurection unusable do to in large the fact your soul can not leave the blade unless it is broken or a new life is claimed. If you want to destroy a demon perma, which if your playing a pali speak to dm about because destrooying even a demons soul is inherintly evil, you must go to the abyss and kill them there. Killing them elsewhere results in they go to abyss, get slapped around, maybe demoted, then sent back to earth. You must travel to the abyss and deal with the root of the issue (Abyssal lords if based off stat block are easily killed and beaten, IMO) the real issue is going to deep in the abyss and start seeing the real bad guys (Once tried going to layer 66, instead went to 666. Not a fun time)

[Aharon]

The idea is making the weapon thinaun, kill something, and then change it to another material. The rules don't define what happens in that case, and it can be argued that this means the soul vanishes.

[Rubik]

Note that there are several different uses for souls, such as incarnum and as spell components. It's easier to collect souls with thinaun, since all you need to do is kill something with a weapon made of such.

I also think that the forces of Good should destroy unrepentant fiendish souls, since allowing said souls to return to the outer planes makes capital-E Evil stronger and weakens the forces of Good in the multiverse. The idea that destroying souls is unmitigateably evil is demonstrably crap. Just like almost anything else, it's how and why you do so that determines its alignment.

[Psyren]

The idea is making the weapon thinaun, kill something, and then change it to another material. The rules don't define what happens in that case, and it can be argued that this means the soul vanishes.

You could also argue:

- It's not Thinaun anymore, and only Thinaun can hold souls, so the soul is released.
- The act of transmutation is effectively destroying the old existence and making the new one, so the blade counts as destroyed and the soul is released.
- The soul is simply still inside and one only has to turn it back into Thinaun to gain access.

Every one of these interpretations including yours is up to the DM.


As noted before, it merely traps the soul. However, it renders resurection unusable do to in large the fact your soul can not leave the blade unless it is broken or a new life is claimed.

Not quite true - if the caster of the resurrection effect has the blade in their possession, even unbroken, they can raise the individual. The blade doesn't always have to be broken.

[Ortesk]

Note that there are several different uses for souls, such as incarnum and as spell components. It's easier to collect souls with thinuan, since all you need to do is kill something with a weapon made of such.

I also think that the forces of Good should destroy unrepentant fiendish souls, since allowing said souls to return to the outer planes makes capital-E Evil stronger and weakens the forces of Good in the multiverse. The idea that destroying souls is unmitigateably evil is demonstrably crap. Just like almost anything else, it's how and why you do so that determines its alignment.

Which is my stance on it as well but again, ask a DM. Dnd says it is evil, pure and simple. But that is a discussion for another time, i think everyone knows how pitiful the llignment system is

[Pickford]

You still need the body though unless you're using TR; having the soul at hand makes it cheaper but doesn't remove that requirement.

Hrm, less useful then.

[Rubik]

I used it on my monk build to help single-handedly take down the elder evils from Elder Evils. Wear a thinaun ring on the hand I use to fist them to death to entrap their souls, using an allied spellcaster to destroy them via soul-as-spell-component to prevent them from ever being brought back through any means.

Note that most of these things simply retreat when you destroy their avatars, but if you kill their avatars, it pulls their souls into the metal, and allows them to be destroyed even though killing them off for good is nigh impossible otherwise.

Zargon in particular is annoying, since his body regenerates until his horn is destroyed in a way similar to The One Ring. But once his soul is destroyed, it doesn't matter if his body regenerates, because it'll be comatose and useless to anything but a Magic Jar spell. But if you then stuff the horn in a bag of holding and puncture it, the body is forever lost and can't come back then anyway. So nyah.

[Psyren]

Thinaun Rings won't work - the weapon must be made of the stuff.

"If a thinaun melee weapon is touching a creature when it dies..."

"The soul remains in the thinaun weapon until the weapon is destroyed..."

"Only melee weapons made primarily of metal can be crafted as thinaun weapons."

You could make Thinaun Knuckles though.

[Rubik]

Thinaun Rings won't work - the weapon must be made of the stuff.

"If a thinaun melee weapon is touching a creature when it dies..."

"The soul remains in the thinaun weapon until the weapon is destroyed..."

"Only melee weapons made primarily of metal can be crafted as thinaun weapons."

You could make Thinaun Knuckles though.Ah, but there's a ring in Dragon Compendium that doubles as a weapon for poison-delivery which deals +1 damage when you strike something with it. So there's that.

[Emperor Tippy]

Thinaun Rings won't work - the weapon must be made of the stuff.

"If a thinaun melee weapon is touching a creature when it dies..."

"The soul remains in the thinaun weapon until the weapon is destroyed..."

"Only melee weapons made primarily of metal can be crafted as thinaun weapons."

You could make Thinaun Knuckles though.

There is a ring that is a weapon, from Arms and Equipment Guide iirc (might also be from Dragon). It does 1 point of damage and is made for stealthily poisoning someone.

[Rubik]

There is a ring that is a weapon, from Arms and Equipment Guide iirc (might also be from Dragon). It does 1 point of damage and is made for stealthily poisoning someone.My Contingent Synchronicity beat your Contingent Synchronicity.

[Aharon]

You could also argue:

- It's not Thinaun anymore, and only Thinaun can hold souls, so the soul is released.
- The act of transmutation is effectively destroying the old existence and making the new one, so the blade counts as destroyed and the soul is released.
- The soul is simply still inside and one only has to turn it back into Thinaun to gain access.

Every one of these interpretations including yours is up to the DM.



Yes, you are quite right. OP wanted to know there the supposed ability to destroy souls come from, the rules interpretation I gave is the source of this claim, afaik. Ohter interpretations are also valid, of course.

[Coidzor]

Doesn't it inherently allow you to transfer the soul to a gem from the thinuan weapon as well?

[unseenmage]

Just dropping by with my tale of Thinaun.

Animate Objects on a sizable lump of Thinaun created with True Creation.

The resultant Construct's Slam Attacks are a Thinaun Melee weapon. Always amused me.

[Radar]

There are other ways to prevent resurrection. Probably the most renown is to use Flesh to Stone on the target and then get rid of the statue without destroying it. You can for example use Polymorph Any Object to change the target into mud, which you then dillute and cast Purify Water on the puddle. Good luck finding any remnants of the statue to cast Stone to Flesh on. The best part? The target isn't dead, so resurrection is impossible. A Wish or Miracle still might be able to undo the vanishing, but it's outside of the explicitly written clauses.

On the other hand, having a collection of demon-filled gems is a cool concept - just don't let any uptight bureaucrat shut down your containment unit (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vxEimC3HME).

[Jormengand]

- The soul is simply still inside and one only has to turn it back into Thinaun to gain access.

RAW, this is probably closest. The main argument for this is that rules as written, the soul is not released until the thinaun weapon has been destroyed. Transmutation is not destruction (or polymorph any object would be quite an annoying spell), and the steel longsword is not the thinaun longsword, so you use a truenamer to make it into thinaun, kill someone, wait for it to turn back, then throw the steel weapon into a handy volcano.

None of this, RAW, releases the soul - you have transmuted the thinaun weapon - which doesn't release the soul - and destroyed the steel weapon - which, you guessed it, doesn't release the soul. And the only way to get the soul back is to forge a steel sword from the volcano, and the sword just so happens to have the soul trapped in it, then you turn the sword back into thinaun. You can then resurrect them from the sword in your hand, or smash it there and then.

Of course, rule 0 is also RAW, so your DM may have something to say about this.

[unseenmage]

RAW, this is probably closest. The main argument for this is that rules as written, the soul is not released until the thinaun weapon has been destroyed. Transmutation is not destruction (or polymorph any object would be quite an annoying spell), and the steel longsword is not the thinaun longsword, so you use a truenamer to make it into thinaun, kill someone, wait for it to turn back, then throw the steel weapon into a handy volcano.

None of this, RAW, releases the soul - you have transmuted the thinaun weapon - which doesn't release the soul - and destroyed the steel weapon - which, you guessed it, doesn't release the soul. And the only way to get the soul back is to forge a steel sword from the volcano, and the sword just so happens to have the soul trapped in it, then you turn the sword back into thinaun. You can then resurrect them from the sword in your hand, or smash it there and then.

Of course, rule 0 is also RAW, so your DM may have something to say about this.

Makes me wonder what happens when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into a Magic Item.
Or worse, and Intelligent or Cursed Magic Item.

Or when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into an Animated Object.

By RAW are these all just Transmutations?

[Jormengand]

Makes me wonder what happens when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into a Magic Item.
Or worse, and Intelligent or Cursed Magic Item.

Or when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into an Animated Object.

By RAW are these all just Transmutations?

Inasmuch as none of them release the trapped soul, yes.

[Ortesk]

Makes me wonder what happens when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into a Magic Item.
Or worse, and Intelligent or Cursed Magic Item.

Or when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into an Animated Object.

By RAW are these all just Transmutations?

I've had PC's turn a MW sword into an item familiar, without them knowing a solar angel died from the blade. The sword was polymorphed into steel, and was once thinuan. Awesome times ensued when the Paladin of Slaughter waded into combat against the Church of Pelor, only to find himself in a daze as his sword landed blow on blow at the party.....they gave up the feat afterwards and swore not to use it again

[Chronos]

That sounds to me like you should have just said "Item familiars are not allowed". It's rather rude to allow something just to say "Screw you" to the party.

[Psyren]

Ah, but there's a ring in Dragon Compendium that doubles as a weapon for poison-delivery which deals +1 damage when you strike something with it. So there's that.

Hmm... I suppose punching someone with that ring on your finger would count as them "being in contact." Just don't finish them off with a Snap Kick or headbutt or something.


RAW, this is probably closest.

There is no RAW, so picking one of the DM rulings and saying "this is closest to RAW" makes no sense to me.


Transmutation is not destruction (or polymorph any object would be quite an annoying spell)

PAO isn't, but that's because it's permanent in duration and thus layered on top of the existing object - a dispel can strip it away and restore the original. An instantaneous change however could be argued.

[Coidzor]

I've had PC's turn a MW sword into an item familiar, without them knowing a solar angel died from the blade. The sword was polymorphed into steel, and was once thinuan. Awesome times ensued when the Paladin of Slaughter waded into combat against the Church of Pelor, only to find himself in a daze as his sword landed blow on blow at the party.....they gave up the feat afterwards and swore not to use it again

Well, that's certainly an interesting, if convoluted way to ban a feat you don't like, I suppose. :smallconfused:

I'm mildly surprised they didn't instead learn to always make their items themselves, or at least have the items made new, in order to limit the potential to be screwed.


Makes me wonder what happens when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into a Magic Item.
Or worse, and Intelligent or Cursed Magic Item.

Or when a Thinaun sword with a soul trapped in it is turned into an Animated Object.

By RAW are these all just Transmutations?

A lot of non-interaction under RAW, so stuff like Animated Object works normally, it just has a soul trapped inside the Thinaun. Both sets of effects should just work normally without the DM deciding to pull shenanigans, and you could write volumes about DM Fiat shenanigans.


RAW, this is probably closest. The main argument for this is that rules as written, the soul is not released until the thinaun weapon has been destroyed. Transmutation is not destruction (or polymorph any object would be quite an annoying spell), and the steel longsword is not the thinaun longsword, so you use a truenamer to make it into thinaun, kill someone, wait for it to turn back, then throw the steel weapon into a handy volcano.

You have something to back up the argument that you've created a different object rather than merely transmuting the substance that the object is made out of?