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Zancloufer
2013-10-18, 02:59 PM
Okay, so essentially I'm working on an Antagonist/Major NPC for a Gestalt game I'm running. He's essentially Mundane badass with a pile of Martial Adept levels. Total levels are (Unarmed) Swordsage 20 / Monk 1 / Crusader 4 // Warblade 20 / Master of Nine 5
[Using This Monk (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150122) as IMO jiriku did such a good job at fixing the Monk without really rewriting it)

I'm not anticipating the party really fighting him off pre level 9 spells. Still need something like 9 Maneuvers and 3 stances. This is what He's got so far:
Martial Adept Schools : ALL
Maneuvers and Stances Known(54/14)(26 Ready/3 Stances Active): Note : DC is 10+Manuver level + Relevant ability Mod.
1) Blood in the Water [Stance] - +1 Hit/Damage per Crit. Sudden Leap [Boost] – Jump as a swift action. Flame's Blessing [Stance] – Immunity to Fire. Burning Blade [Boost] – Attacks deal 1d6+20 extra fire damage. Counter Charge [Counter] – Counter a charge to redirect them. Leading the Attack - Allies get +4 to hit against an enemy you hit. Martial Spirit [Stance] Recover 2 HP per successful attack.
2) Disarming Strike – Attack can also Disarm. Emerald Razor – Melee attack is considered touch attack. Mirtheral Tornado – Whirlwind attack with +2 to hit. Cloak of Deception [Boost] – Gain Greater Invisibility for 1 round. Drain Vitality – DC 19 Fort Save or take 2 points Con damage. Shadow Jaunt – Teleport 50ft. Battle leader's Charge – Charge attack with +10 damage, does not provoke AoO.
3) Iron Heart Surge – Remove Deliberating Condition. Zephyr Dance [Counter] Gain +4 AC vs an attack. Strength Draining Strike – Deal 4 Strength damage, DC 19 Fort save for half. Covering Strike [Boost] – Enemies hit can't use AoO for the next 3 rounds. Lion's Roar [Boost] – After downing enemy, allies get +5 hit/damage for one round. Tactics of the Wolf [Stance] – Target you flank, allies get +10 hit/damage against them. Thicket of Blades [Stance] – 5ft steps provoke AoOs.
4) Death From above – Jump check for leap attack +4d6 dmg. Lightning Recovery [Boost] – Reroll missed attack with +2 to hit. Rapid Counter [Counter] – Make melee attack against enemy provoking AoO. Absolute Steel stance [Stance] - +10ft to movement and +2 AC for 1 round after moving. Comet Throw – Touch and trip an enemy, to throw them up to 2ft away, deals 4d6 damage. Strike of the Broken Shield - +4d6 damage, successful attack makes target flatfooted. Hand of Death – DC 20 Fort save or Paralyzed for 1d3 rounds. White Raven Strike - +4d6 damage, target is flatfooted for a round.
5) Dancing Blade Form [Stance] - +5ft Reach. Disrupting Blow – Successful attack stops enemy from acting next round. Leaping Flame [Counter] – Teleport next to attacking enemy that's within 100ft. Hearing the Air [Stance] – Gain Blind sense 30ft. Bloodletting Strike – Deals 4 Con damage, DC 22 Fort for half damage. Flanking Maneuver – Allies that can see you get a free attack against your Target. Law Bearer – If target Chaotic, +8 hit, +5d6 damage and gain +5 to saves/AC.
6) Manticore Party [Counter] – Roll against enemy attack, if successful redirect to adjacent target. Desert Tempest – Move at full speed, make attack against each enemy you pass. Ring of Fire – Move up to double movement speed across ground, if a complete circuit is made, all enemies within take 12d6 fire damage, DC 22 Ref for half. Ballistic Throw – Touch and trip an enemy successfully, get to throw them in a 60ft line, dealing 6d6 damage. Order Forged from Chaos – All allies gain a free move action. Rallying Strike – If enemy not same alignment, allies heal 3d6+15 damage it attack hits.
7) Finishing Move – Deals extra damage to weaken targets (+4d6 Full, +6d6 Hurt, +14d6 @>50% HP) Death in the Dark – Sneak attack against target for +15d6 damage, or 5d6 with DC 24 Fort Save. Shadow Blink – Teleport as Swift Action. Clarion Call [Boost] – Down an enemy, all allies gain free attack or 5ft step. Swarming Assault – Strike Foe, any ally they threaten can be attacked by that ally. Inferno Blade [Boost] – For 1 round attacks deal 3d6+25 extra fire damage. Salamander Charge – Charge at 2x base speed, leave 5ft thick wall of fire in path for 5 rounds, 6d6 damage. Aura of Perfect Order [Stance] – Take 11 on 2 d20 roll per round. Devastating Strike – If Target not same alignment, take +8d6, Enemies within 50ft take 5d6, damage and DC 32 Fort save or take -2 to d20 rolls 1 minute.
8) Wolf Pack Tactics [Stance] – Move 5ft with each successful attack. Diamond Defense [Boost] – Initiator level to Saving throw. Lightning Throw – Throw weapon in 30ft line, +12d6 damage, targets allow Ref for half (DC = Attack roll). Rising Phoenix [Stance] – Levitation/Flight 10ft off ground on top of a flaming tornado. Deals 3d6 Fire damage to adjacent creatures. Fool's Strike [Counter] – Redirect enemy's attack back with an opposing attack roll. Ghostly Defense [Stance] – Gain 50% concealment, missed attacks can hit nearby enemies. Balance on the Sky [Stance] – Air walk with at least one free hand. Enervating Shadow Strike – DC 26 Fort save, or take 1d4 negative levels.
9)Time Stands – Full attack Twice. Strike of Perfect Clarity - +100 damage on an attack. Warmaster's Charge - Charge an enemy, all allies within reach can also make a charge attack, get +50 damage, allies get +25, and everyone gets +2 to hit per ally involved in the charge. Mountain Tombstone Strike – Deal 2d6 con damage, DC 19. Strike of Righteous Vitality – Successful hit, you or ally within 10ft gain benefit of Heal spell.
(Think the DCs might not all be right, have to fix that later)

So, any ideas?

rockdeworld
2013-10-18, 08:18 PM
Drop Warmaster's Charge and every ally-boosting maneuver, then drop every non-situational stance except Stance of Alacrity (and take Stance of Alacrity). Badasss do not need helpers to get their jobs done, and so he shouldn't get too much use out of the maneuvers that benefit allies. Stance of Alacrity is the stance you want to be in all the time, except when you need to do something specific, like walk on air.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-10-18, 10:10 PM
So, ah... what's the question? Do you want optimization advice? Help simplifying?

Zancloufer
2013-10-19, 11:04 AM
Okay, I'd admit maybe I was a bit brief.

This game is the first one where we as a group are seriously using Tome of Battle, and I'm not 100% certain on the best maneuvers/stances, or even which ones work better than advertised.

Essentially we have a Epic level Martial Adept, who not only is generally a bad-ass with no weapons/armour, but he is also a General for this Empire. So that's why he has so much White Raven. While he's most definitely got much of his authority via ass-kicking (just that good of a solider) he also has to be somewhat of an accomplished tactician (IIRC I even gave him Ranks in Knowledge Tactics or something fluffly like that).

So yeah, I could use some help not only picking ~54 Manuevers and 14 stances for him, but which ones you think would be most useful for him to have prepared on a general basis (though with adaptive style changing his entire set up takes like 6 seconds). I think I chose some pretty good ones, but I'm not 100% certain.

Also on a RAW/RAI rules matter, since he has all three martial adept classes, doesn't that mean he can use any/all of the classes recovery mechanics? Also would he have more than 3 Stances ready at a time? Almost seems to imply that each martial adept class let's you have a stance active (or more in the case of Warblade Capstone, and Master of Nine class abilities).

Red Fel
2013-10-19, 11:16 AM
Also on a RAW/RAI rules matter, since he has all three martial adept classes, doesn't that mean he can use any/all of the classes recovery mechanics? Also would he have more than 3 Stances ready at a time? Almost seems to imply that each martial adept class let's you have a stance active (or more in the case of Warblade Capstone, and Master of Nine class abilities).

You can use the recovery mechanics only for those maneuvers you got from that class, or from a PrC that advances that class.

For example, if you have a Crusader 5/ Swordsage 6, the Crusader's recovery mechanic applies to his Devoted Spirit maneuvers, and the Swordsage's mechanic to his Setting Sun maneuvers. If this became Crusader 5/ Swordsage 6/ Bloodclaw Master 3, with BCM advancing Swordsage initiating, you would use Swordsage mechanics for maneuvers acquired through BCM. Needless to say, with a whole bunch of initiator classes, this can get very confusing.

With regard to stances, the general rule is that you can have one stance active at a time. The Warblade capstone increases that to two. The Mo9 RAW is a bit ambiguous - on the one hand, it seems to imply you can take another stance without losing your previous one, which would suggest you could take a third (temporarily); on the other, it explicitly says "You can use this ability to gain the benefits of two stances", which suggests to me that it does not stack with the Warblade capstone. I would rule that Warblade allows you to maintain two stances at once, but that's the limit.

Having other initiator classes does not grant you extra stances at a time, merely access to additional stances.

Note, however, that all stances you know are ready; they need not be readied like normal maneuvers.

Scow2
2013-10-19, 11:25 AM
With regard to stances, the general rule is that you can have one stance active at a time. The Warblade capstone increases that to two. The Mo9 RAW is a bit ambiguous - on the one hand, it seems to imply you can take another stance without losing your previous one, which would suggest you could take a third (temporarily); on the other, it explicitly says "You can use this ability to gain the benefits of two stances", which suggests to me that it does not stack with the Warblade capstone. I would rule that Warblade allows you to maintain two stances at once, but that's the limit.

Having other initiator classes does not grant you extra stances at a time, merely access to additional stances.

Note, however, that all stances you know are ready; they need not be readied like normal maneuvers.
While I'd rule that the "You can use this ability to gain the benefits of two stances" was written under the assumption that the character in question doesn't have the Warblade Capston, and would grant a third. The context of the rule and casual tone the ToB uses imply that it's a clarification text, and is not supposed to be a hard limit.


But yes, you do need to keep track of what stances/maneuvers are known from each class for the purpose of recovery.

Fouredged Sword
2013-10-19, 03:41 PM
I would personally cut out crusader as unneeded. It really clutters up the progressions and you can get everything you want from crusader from master of nine.

Print out two sets of the maneuver cards.

Without crusader you just have two piles of cards. One for warblade and one for swordsage. What you care about is that the warblade pile resets every time he doesn't use he uses a standard action or full action to attack and doesn't use a maneuver that round. The swordsage pile resets every time he takes a full round to reset.

This way you can just lay out both set as hands behind your screen and flip cards over when he uses them. Much simpler than trying to keep up with the rotating abilities of a crusader on top of everything else.

Shining Wrath
2013-10-19, 05:09 PM
Possibly the best maneuver at any level for a solo baddass:

Adamantine Hurricane, Iron Heart 8. Attack everyone adjacent to you twice, with a +4 to hit. Imagine your general in the middle of a melee and tossing that off while surrounded.

And when you have 20 Warblade levels, you SHOULD be surrounded, because you have Improved Uncanny Dodge and they can't flank you.

Watch out for all those Desert Sun fire based maneuvers, because Resist Energy is an easy thing for druids and clerics to grant.

Consider some defensive maneuvers: Iron Heart Focus (level 5) lets you reroll a save, and Diamond Defense (level 8) lets you add your initiator level to any save you make. Your IL, BTW, is usually around 37: 20 (Warblade or SS) + 10 (other one of WB or SS divided by 2) + 5 (Master of 9) + 2 (Crusader / 2). Adding 37 to a SR is pretty close to "Save = YES".

And if you don't take Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw level 5), hobbits will mock you. Seriously, how can a guy who is a Leader of Men NOT want Pounce? Move full move, hit them with full attack = WIN.

Scow2
2013-10-19, 05:17 PM
Consider some defensive maneuvers: Iron Heart Focus (level 5) lets you reroll a save, and Diamond Defense (level 8) lets you add your initiator level to any save you make. Your IL, BTW, is usually around 37: 20 (Warblade or SS) + 10 (other one of WB or SS divided by 2) + 5 (Master of 9) + 2 (Crusader / 2). Adding 37 to a SR is pretty close to "Save = YES".Initiator Level should only be level 25 (Warblade+Master of Nine), because with Gestalt, the half-initiator granted by the other classes on the other side of the Gestalt is overriden by the Full Initiator Level each level-up.


And if you don't take Pouncing Charge (Tiger Claw level 5), hobbits will mock you. Seriously, how can a guy who is a Leader of Men NOT want Pounce? Move full move, hit them with full attack = WIN.He has other maneuvers used as a standard action, and thus incompatible with Pouncing Charge... though it's nice for single-target damage if he can get a straight line to a target. However, the only time he wouldn't be using a maneuver is when he's recovering his other ones.

Phaederkiel
2013-10-19, 05:40 PM
look that your guy is able to use his actions well. Which means: have a good measure of counters, or rather: an overwhelming measure of counters if you have stance of alacrity.

If you have the ability to drop 2 Counters per round, have a lot of counters.

I can give you a list I used for a warblade 20 / Iaijutsu master 10:



Manveuvers readied:
greater Insightful strike (2x concentration in dmg)
Diamond nightmare blade (4x dmg)
White raven hammer
moment of perfect mind
Action before thought
Mind over body
Manticore parry (redirect opponents attack)
Lightning Recovery (reroll missed attack with +2)


Stances:
Stance of alacricity ( 1 counter pro runde verbraucht keine immedieate)
Dancing blade form (during your turn +5 reach)



Diamond Nightmare blade is in there for its synergy with big iaijutsu-strikes,
Iron heart surge is missing cuz i banned it in the campaign.

Baffling defense and some of the teleports are valuable additions Swordsage could make.

Crusader adds aura of perfect order, some more white raven goodness (as for example: Order forged from chaos and white rave tactics), shield counter, and the two monstrous gamebreakers: the stance immortal fortitude and strike of righteous vitality.

If you are having alacrity, immortal fortidude and a good selection of counters and the aforementioned healing strikes, opponents will be having a good hard time bringing you down.