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Coidzor
2013-10-19, 05:53 PM
So I'm going to be playing in a game soon(ish), where there's going to be two bards, one focusing on Inspire Courage, and the other PrCing out into Troubadour (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=222125)(admittedly, this is not up to date), a homebrew class focused on healing and having a unicorn mount, ASAP. The current version of Troubadour dumps inspire courage like a bad lover, so the current ban on dragonfire inspiration(because it has anything to do with dragons) doesn't cause as much friction between the two as it could.

They're both almost completely new to D&D though, so I figure that since I'm taking advantage of the free LA+1 on my character I should at least try to point them towards something that'll be good for them, especially after I pointed the (melee) Rogue towards the LA+1 Dark Template. I'd recommend an LA+1 race(or even combining the LA+0 Feytouched with the 1 level Savage Progression for Feytouched>Half-Fey as an LA+1, since having them on a slightly higher footing to start wouldn't be terrible and so there'd at least be some chance the DM'd approve it), but right now they're both fairly set upon humans, uless I could find a bard-friendly Unicorn(My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic) race and get it approved for the setting, probably as some kind of planar castaway/freak accident/mage's experiment.

The one bard seems like he doesn't really want to do anything in combat besides play music, he didn't particularly like the idea of using a ranged weapon or mixing music and melee, and he wasn't particularly interested in casting spells while playing music either. So I've been having a bit of trouble advising him, especially because he's playing an instrument-based bard which always frustrate me as to what they're supposed to be doing in combat unless they just stop playing after the initial round they activate their bardic music. His ears seemed to perk up when I mentioned things like Doomspeak(sadly shot down by the DM who decided that since it used a use of bardic music it couldn't be used while bardic music was in use) which would potentially be usable while he was playing and Haunting Melody which definitely be usable while he was using bardic music, so I pointed him towards Inspire Awe, and I believe the Mantle Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551) is going to be going for Intimidate-locking so there's some synergy there, especially before he gets Imperious Command and Never Outnumbered. I think he might be the one more interested in going Bardic Knack if two bards with full bardic knowledge would be too much overlap?

The other bard's player doesn't seem to really want to have her character do much in the way of the Face role or fight in combat as a ranged or melee combatant. She's firm that she wants to play a support role, and she's been directed towards how to optimize inspire courage, though no DFI, for better or worse. She'll probably be some variant of Exalted and taking words of creation though, so there's that. Other than optimizing IC, I'm not sure what to point her towards, though she wants to focus on support and using illusions as a caster, so I figure the "standard" Bard>Virtuoso>Sublime Chord>More Virtuouso is probably where she'll end up, though I'm not sure what to recommend she do for the first few levels when she doesn't really have the spells per day to use in fights(maybe some SLAs from a template would help there).

I've already pointed both of them towards the various bard handbooks out there and have tried with mixed success to talk to them about what they want their characters to do, though I don't think either one is all that comfortable with me yet, since I'm pretty new to them, plus they're pretty new to learning the game.

We're playing 3.5 with things adopted in from Homebrew and PF on a case-by-case basis, as far as sourcing goes most everything's on the table, but Fey, Dragons, and such are different/hiding because of the setting. I was thinking of bumping up Magic-Blooded to be fully LA+1, but wasn't quite sure what would be good to add to that, especially since I'd have the potential to tailor something for each of them before passing it on to the DM for approval. I figure some kind of bonus to their effective level for bardic knowledge/knack would be a good minor bonus for the template, maybe something along the lines of the 2 level half-fey savage progression's first level SLA progression for giving them more bard spells per day via SLA or more versatility, and/or maybe giving melodic casting or something like it as a freebie could be pursued.

tl;dr: Any good LA+1 templates for a bard or templates that would be a good basis for tweaking into a template for a bard? If so, any recommended tweaks?

Fax Celestis
2013-10-19, 06:26 PM
Half-fey is one of my favorites, and it comes with a fantastic Cha bonus. However, it's +2. You could probably cut it to +1 simply by removing the flight.

Also-rans (and assuming that your group is okay with 3rd party since they're okay with homebrew):
Goodman Games' Book of Templates has Fey-Kissed, which boils down to:

Cha +2
3/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st.
Other SLAs (all 1/d):
{table=head]Level|Spell-Like Abilities
1–2|disguise self
3–4|alter self
5–6|speak with animals
7–8|pass without trace
9–10| speak with plants[/table]
Low-Light Vision
Melancholy (Ex): A fey-kissed that has left the fey realm is occasionally prone to fits of melancholy. Every week, it must make a Will save (DC 25 minus its own Hit Dice, minimum DC 5) or be struck by ennui for 1d4 days. During this time, the fey-kissed creature takes a –2 penalty on Wisdom-based rolls.
Slow Aging (Ex): A fey-kissed is forever touched by the agelessness of the fey realms. In mortal realms, the creature ages half as quickly as a normal counterpart.
+1 racial to Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Perform
Gain Sylvan as known languages
LA +1


...and Dragon-Blooded:

+2 Str, +2 Cha
Natural armor +1
Darkvision 60'
Dragonblooded
Low-Light Vision
5+1/2 HD resistance to acid, cold, electricity, or fire (dependent on heritage)
+4 on saves vs. sleep and paralysis
Favored class becomes sorcerer
LA +1

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-10-19, 06:29 PM
One level of Half-Fey (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) would be good, you never have to get the second level of it (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

Maybe use Quasilycanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (scroll to the bottom) and walk around with cat or fox ears/tail if that's what they're into.

A single level in the Half-Water Elemental template class from Dragon 326 page 86 gives Wis +2, Cha +2, the Outsider creature type, and Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, and Water Breathing each 1/day at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level. The Wis bonus can offset the penalty from Magic-Blooded.

The Draconic Creature template gives a Cha bonus with some combat-oriented bonuses, though if using point buy it can help him to not have a penalty to physical stats without spending any points on them. However, this will exclude him from being able to dip a level in Dragon Devotee from Races of the Dragon, which is extremely beneficial.

Coidzor
2013-10-19, 07:41 PM
One level of Half-Fey (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a) would be good, you never have to get the second level of it (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a).

Maybe use Quasilycanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (scroll to the bottom) and walk around with cat or fox ears/tail if that's what they're into.

A single level in the Half-Water Elemental template class from Dragon 326 page 86 gives Wis +2, Cha +2, the Outsider creature type, and Obscuring Mist, Fog Cloud, and Water Breathing each 1/day at 1st, 3rd, and 5th level. The Wis bonus can offset the penalty from Magic-Blooded.

The Draconic Creature template gives a Cha bonus with some combat-oriented bonuses, though if using point buy it can help him to not have a penalty to physical stats without spending any points on them. However, this will exclude him from being able to dip a level in Dragon Devotee from Races of the Dragon, which is extremely beneficial.

I hadn't considered that approach. Which is kind of funny considering I'd thought about using the Feytouched to nab Half-Fey in its entirety as LA+1. I'll be running that one by them and the DM.

I think the DM's a bit shy about that much DR at early levels, but maybe. If I could sell the DM on Were-icorns or Were-horses that might cinch it.

That does sound like a fairly nifty combo. Thanks for the heads up on half-water elemental.

No on Draconic, I actually looked into it myself, mostly for the claws and access to draconic soulmelds on my totemist. I don't think there's any dragons native to the plane, or even dragon-kin, aside from Kobolds.


Half-fey is one of my favorites, and it comes with a fantastic Cha bonus. However, it's +2. You could probably cut it to +1 simply by removing the flight.

I'll check into that, then.


Also-rans (and assuming that your group is okay with 3rd party since they're okay with homebrew):
Goodman Games' Book of Templates has Fey-Kissed, which boils down to:

Cha +2
3/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st.
Other SLAs (all 1/d):
{table=head]Level|Spell-Like Abilities
1–2|disguise self
3–4|alter self
5–6|speak with animals
7–8|pass without trace
9–10| speak with plants[/table]
Low-Light Vision
Melancholy (Ex): A fey-kissed that has left the fey realm is occasionally prone to fits of melancholy. Every week, it must make a Will save (DC 25 minus its own Hit Dice, minimum DC 5) or be struck by ennui for 1d4 days. During this time, the fey-kissed creature takes a –2 penalty on Wisdom-based rolls.
Slow Aging (Ex): A fey-kissed is forever touched by the agelessness of the fey realms. In mortal realms, the creature ages half as quickly as a normal counterpart.
+1 racial to Bluff, Hide, Move Silently, Perform
Gain Sylvan as known languages
LA +1


...and Dragon-Blooded:

+2 Str, +2 Cha
Natural armor +1
Darkvision 60'
Dragonblooded
Low-Light Vision
5+1/2 HD resistance to acid, cold, electricity, or fire (dependent on heritage)
+4 on saves vs. sleep and paralysis
Favored class becomes sorcerer
LA +1


Sadly Dragon-Blooded's no good because dragon-derived things are basically secret/not accessible to players.

What's the flavor on Fey-Kissed? People who've been taken by the Fey into a fey realm or mound of some sort and have been changed as a result? More Rip Van Winkle than that? More like the grown up people who changelings are switched for?

Thank you for the heads up on them.

Fax Celestis
2013-10-20, 12:23 AM
Fey-kissed creatures are usually taken away as lovers by fey such as dryads or nymphs. Others are stolen as children or even at birth, spirited away to fairy woods or into hollow hills. Blessed by the lavish attentions of the fey, the fey-kissed have emerged from the realm of the fey with some nature-related powers and a longing in their hearts. A few fey-kissed creatures dwell near magical areas and are true races, not just creatures altered by the touch of the fey.

Appearance Changes
Fey-kissed rarely differ in appearance from their mundane counterparts. They may appear more beautiful or have stronger personalities, but these signs of fey meddling aren’t always reliable.
That's the short version. I could probably quote the whole thing (its OGL), but it'd be super long.

Red Fel
2013-10-20, 12:49 AM
Does it have to be +1?

Unseelie Fey is +0, gets you bonuses to Dex and Cha (and penalties to Str and Con), plus vision, flight, some skill boosts, and a really neat seasonal power of your choice.

It does get you an iron vulnerability - a problem if you use metal weapons - but later it nets you DR/Cold Iron.

You could always stack Unseelie on something else if you wanted, I suppose...

Alternatively, you could pick a Minor Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), and simply take the Bloodline Level upfront as your LA. Amusingly, Minor Devil Bloodline gets you +1 Cha at level 12, as do Doppelganger and Fey. On the one hand, it's a bit weak for a +1 LA; on the other, you could parley it into one of the Intermediate or even Major Bloodlines, and simply take the first level upfront rather than putting it off.

Coidzor
2013-10-20, 01:04 PM
Does it have to be +1?

Unseelie Fey is +0, gets you bonuses to Dex and Cha (and penalties to Str and Con), plus vision, flight, some skill boosts, and a really neat seasonal power of your choice.

It does get you an iron vulnerability - a problem if you use metal weapons - but later it nets you DR/Cold Iron.

You could always stack Unseelie on something else if you wanted, I suppose...

Alternatively, you could pick a Minor Bloodline (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm), and simply take the Bloodline Level upfront as your LA. Amusingly, Minor Devil Bloodline gets you +1 Cha at level 12, as do Doppelganger and Fey. On the one hand, it's a bit weak for a +1 LA; on the other, you could parley it into one of the Intermediate or even Major Bloodlines, and simply take the first level upfront rather than putting it off.

Doesn't have to be, but the free LA+1 is on the table, and they're both new so the power buff would be nice.

With the way he's altering the Fey for his setting (I think it's 5 planes, one main Fey realm and then 4 smaller planes for each season's court), partially taking from the Dresden Files, I'm not sure how much Unseelie Fey would have to be altered, at least fluff-wise, to fit, since like an association with dragons, association with certain aspects of the Fey might lead to a character being NPC-only.

If it does fly, then weapons aren't likely to be an issue between gloves and the fact that neither are all that interested in fighting with weapons, though I did get one of them to look at nets/lassos as something cheap that'd allow them to do something before their schtick took off.

Seems interesting, though I'm not sure if throwing on bloodlines on top of everything else is a good idea, since there's multiple ways that they could be interpreted, last I checked. I suppose we'll see though when I mention it. First I'll have to dig up that handbook or explanation of bloodlines and the main interpretations of them. I recall there's at least two, one where it's like an LA you buy during play and the other that it's like a virtual level you take in lieu of leveling up and it increases skill points and the like, but doesn't count against ECL for XP purposes.


That's the short version. I could probably quote the whole thing (its OGL), but it'd be super long.

That should be enough, thank you, just wanted to make sure I had a fairly clear picture of what it was.