FR Paladin of Helm Questions

[Grinch]

Hello, forum. I'm new, and I've got a question.

I've never played tabletop D&D in my life. I'm pretty conversant with the various iterations of it from playing games like Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter Nights, but the only tabletop RPG I've ever actually sat down and played is Shadowrun, and that was way, way back in middle school. Nevertheless, I've been roped into the group my girlfriend plays with now that they've lost some folks to moving and having kids and the like. It's a 3.5 Forgotten Realms campaign.

I've settled on a paladin, and I was going to go with Helm as his deity, but the internet's made me second-guess myself. The DM of the campaign and I are in agreement that Lawful Good need not necessarily be Lawful Nice, and that there's plenty of room for grim-minded, pragmatic paladins within the strictures of the Code, so Helm seemed like a pretty good choice for someone going a little more Black Templars than Knights of the Round Table.

However, all the internet discussion I've come across on paladins of Helm seems to indicate that Helm's...passive, for lack of a better word. Not much of the crusade type. That the "protection" aspect of his portfolio is meant in a very strict sense - you don't protect by going out and defeating evil before it has a chance to strike, you just keep near what you're guarding.

If that's true, what's a better option? Torm seems basically like chivalry defined, which...eh. Tyr would just feel a bit too much like playing a policeman. Etc.

[Yora]

Helm is the god of Guardians. So it would make the most sense that clerics and paladins chose to protect and guard something specific rather than traveling the world, looking for things that need to be guarded.
But that doesn't mean that they have to pick a specific temple or castle and spend all their time guarding the main gate against instruders. They could also dedicate themselves to guard the borders of the duchy or guard the roads that connect the local settlements. Which would of course require them to travel around a lot. And even as guardians of a city or temple, guarding it means not only defending the walls and gates, but also to search for conspiracies and traitors.
And paladins also are not really priests of their god, but paladins first and chose a god to worship. Their adventuring doesn't really have to be work in the deities name.

But generally speaking, playing a cleric or paladin of Helm means it's probably a good idea to check with the GM what would be a good thing for the character to dedicate himself to. Wouldn't be much help if the character dedicates himself to protecting a city when the group leaves for another country soon on a quest that doesn't have anything to do with the cities protection. If the campaign is going to be about fighting an enemy of the local lord, then it wouldn't be much of a stretch for a paladin to travel even to distant places to end the threat before it can reach the capital city.

[Averis Vol]

If you want something a little more grim, I've always been partial of the Hellbred Paladin of Kelemvor; the god of death and the judge of souls.

Obligatory link (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Kelemvor)

He makes for a good hunter of the treacherous type paladin, meeting out justice with a well balanced hand, devotees of Kelemvor tend to take swift justice upon those deemed guilty; the greatest offender of interplanar crime being undead monstrosities.

[Grinch]

And paladins also are not really priests of their god, but paladins first and chose a god to worship. Their adventuring doesn't really have to be work in the deities name.
I'd always understood it as the god chooses the paladin, not the other way around. I may well be wrong, though.

[Yora]

Paladins are always strange. They are chosen to be paladins by destiny, but gods somehow don't really have much of a say in it.

[Grinch]

Kelemvor seems suitably grim, but he also seems rather undead-focused. I don't know enough to know if that's ALL his paladins focus on, or what.

[Renegade Paladin]

The Red Knight is the demideity of strategy, lawful neutral, and being basically a war god (that gets around Tempus via technicality) can be quite grim.

[jedipotter]

However, all the internet discussion I've come across on paladins of Helm seems to indicate that Helm's...passive, for lack of a better word. Not much of the crusade type.

Helm is the worst crusader type in the Realms. Helm is the patron god of the Golden Legion, as in the legion that invaded and destroied the 'new world'(Think Cortez vs the Inca)

With religion, you can make anything anything. So you can say the Ye Old ''the best defense is a good offense''. So they would have folks of Helm attacking 'bad guys' first. You can really justify anything with religion. Like ''we are taking control of this area to make it guarded and safe.''

[Averis Vol]

Kelemvor seems suitably grim, but he also seems rather undead-focused. I don't know enough to know if that's ALL his paladins focus on, or what.

While it is a kelemvorites duty to destroy any undead that comes within his sight, He is ultimately the arbiter of souls; undead are just the worst persecutor of his legal system. He is pretty undead focused, but if they are not around, it's up to his paladins to play judge jury and executioner for the forces of darkness.

I will though, second red knight; she even has a cool feat specific to her church that trades HP for damage.

[Grinch]

Helm is the worst crusader type in the Realms. Helm is the patron god of the Golden Legion, as in the legion that invaded and destroied the 'new world'(Think Cortez vs the Inca)

With religion, you can make anything anything. So you can say the Ye Old ''the best defense is a good offense''. So they would have folks of Helm attacking 'bad guys' first. You can really justify anything with religion. Like ''we are taking control of this area to make it guarded and safe.''
Interesting. Are there any splat books that cover that whole thing in more detail? I've heard it mentioned before, but I don't know a lot about it.

And yes, that was essentially my thinking with Helm; he's Lawful Neutral, unlike most other options, which to my mind would suggest he - and by extent his paladins, though they of course must remain LG - are less concerned with healing the sick and feeding the poor than they are with taking direct measures to protect them. I'd just gotten concerned with the fact that the internet seems to have concluded that paladins of Helm sit around guarding towers all day rather than actively prosecuting campaigns against evil.

[Lactantius]

One thing to note:
in the FR, you may be Lawful Neutral as Paladin, even if the class must be Lawful Good, normally.
The campaign trumps the PHB rule by saying that Lawful Neutral is totally legal if it is equal to the god's alignment.

Same goes for the Ruby Paladins of Sune. The can even have the chaotic part of the alignment.

A historical note: in the times of trouble 1358, only Helm was left das god. He kinda protected what was left over from all godly domains while the god's avatars walked on Toril.

[jedipotter]

Helm Dogma: "He also serves who stands and waits and watches carefully" and "Careful planning always defeats rushed actions in the end" are popular sayings of Helm's faithful. Novices of Helm are charged to be vigilant and to he fair and diligent in the conduct of their orders. They must protect the weak, the unpopular, the injured, and the young and not sacrifice them for others. They must anticipate attacks and he ready, know their foes, and care carefully for their weapons so that their weapons" can perform their duties properly when called upon.

"Never betray your trust" is the guiding phrase for faithful of Helm. This philosophy extends to thinking about how best to guard and protect, both in terms of weapons and the deployment of guardians, and to anticipating what attacks may come and having a practiced plan ready to deal with such threats. The faithful and the priests of Helm train and exercise so as to always be able to carry out their duties as best they can.


There is no 'rule books' on Helm's history. You can read the Mazitica Novels or look in lore heavy 2E.