Jade Pheonix Mage Handbook?

[ZhanStrider]

I've seen a lot of "___" handbooks on giantitp but none for jade pheonix Mage or ruby knight vindicator or dragon disciple or a couple of other things. Did I miss them and my googlefu is weak?

[Amphetryon]

Handbooks for PrCs are considerably less common than for base Classes or other aspects of the game (Spells or Equipment selection, for instance). Generally that's because they're not a starting point in most Characters - although they may well be a goal to aim for from the start.

Did you have specific questions about the JPM?

[AMFV]

http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1308021

First hit on "Jade Pheonix Mage Handbook" in google.

[ZhanStrider]

Handbooks for PrCs are considerably less common than for base Classes or other aspects of the game (Spells or Equipment selection, for instance). Generally that's because they're not a starting point in most Characters - although they may well be a goal to aim for from the start.

Did you have specific questions about the JPM?

Not so much specific questions, but the handbooks usually present ideas I haven't considered, or explain failings of spells/feats that had gone over my head. It's just useful is all.

[Pluto!]

Since we already have a link and this thread's probably just going to turn into squabbles over JPM issues, throwing ideas around, etc., I kind of just want to cut to the chase and throw out some topics for discussion/disagreement/brainstorming.

There are a few questions that I think are really worth kicking around, which I kind of want to stir the pot by introducing, trying to make an argument for a side, seeing if we can get some idea-inspiring discussion going.

Those questions are:

Best entry method: Warblade, Crusader, Swordsage or Martial Study?
Best filler for that awkward level at ECL 6, when you typically have all the prereqs filled except that last skill rank?
Dip a ToB class at ECL 1 or at ECL 5?


Best entry method?
I think the best JPMs are Crusader/Wizards, that Warblade is a deceptive byt suboptimal placeholder, and that the recovery mechanics of Swordsage and Martial Study are just too poor to consider.

The advantages of Crusader over Warblade are:

Free action maneuver recovery. This is the big one. Through spells and class features, JPMs have stuff to do with their swift actions. Especially with some of the staple gish feats like Quicken Spell and Minor Shapeshift. The interaction of PrCs and the Crusader maneuver recovery mechanic even minimize the negative elements of randomized maneuver access.
Devoted Spirit access. This both lets the JPM knock out prerequisites early and bee-line straight into the gooey higher-leveled maneuvers once in JPM, and gives the sort of absurd low-level stamina that lets a gish actually consider melee combat at low levels.
More comprehensive proficiencies. This isn't always relevant, but there are builds that want to dip Spellsword, and my personal favorite JPM setups dip Runesmith at level 6.
Steely Resolve. This ability plays like a +5 to Concentration checks vs. Damage-based spell interrupts, which makes one of the few ways of actually interfering with a spellcaster that extra bit less effective.

The ability-consolidating features that I often see attributed to Wizard/Warblades is minimal. And by minimal, I mean half of the Lightning Reflexes feat, since Battle Alacrity is capped to the character's Warblade class level.

Best level filler for that awkward ECL 6 spot?

I don't see a lot of appealing options here, but the frontloaded casting levels I can imagine considering here are:

Wizard level 5: A feat or a domain ability plus casting does set a relatively high bar.
Runesmith level 1: Personally my favorite - heavy-armored casting, casting and a very powerful ability every odd-numbered level, which is sometimes enough to compete with Abjurant Champion levels later on in the build.
Mindbender level 1: Telepathy is useful, though requiring Enchantment access and neutral alignments can leave things kind of narrow.
Urban Savant level 1: Light armored casting without losing a caster level, but the skill requirements are killers.
Geometer level 1: It's not flashy and it's not sexy, but saving scribed pages can save an appreciable amount of gp in the mid-game. I'd pretty much only consider it in a one-shot adventure around levels 8-10.


And I also kind of like Arachnomancer dips, but I'll just acknowledge upfront that it isn't powerful and requires the "Ebony Phoenix Mage" adaptation.

[The-Mage-King]

I actually disagree on the best caster half.


Wu-Jen is far better for JPM than you might expect. It gets niche spells that are QUITE nice for a gish, after all. Scarves, Body Outside Body, et all.


And, of course, the "Yeah, I'm immune to you for this fight" 1/week combo of Transcend Mortality+Emerald Immolation.