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Alberic Strein
2013-10-20, 05:45 PM
Or, more accurately, spells, class features, enhancements, etc, which could be balanced, and might be, looking at the numbers alone, but come off as completeley and utterly broken in terms of power... Because of the way the game is played, campaigns are designed... Well, because of (what I call) the metagame, really.

So, anything allowing you to quicken spells is sure to come off on the list, actually, due to fairly few encounters per day in an average campaign, spells could (just barely) be an example.

What have you found that sounded perfectly reasonable until a game actually rolled in and you saw the implications?

I just played a game in which, after a very, very bad day (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305367) I rolled with some better spells for my cleric while still deciding to prepare Holy Storm. A simple level 3 cleric spell creating a 20ft zone centered around you that rains holy water, undead take 2d6, fiends 2d6*2 and one of them per round takes the equivalent of 9d6. For caster levels/rounds. No SR. No saving throws. The zone doesn't move and the spell, in itself is extremely, extremely circumstantial. Until you ask yourself just how many of the BBEG are fiends. When you get the spell, still relatively few fiends pull out teleports and planar escapes, and if you manage to pin the foe in the AoE the damage adds up fast and without you doing anything.

The spell is highly, highly situational. But the "situational" part is not about finding a fiend up to no good each of your adventuring days (that's simple), the situational is preventing him to escape the zone. Of you manage that, then ooooh boy do you ever get "rains of castamere" on his poor sorry arse...

So, what feature did you find pretty nice and then discovered to be completely overpowered in the context of an average adventuring day?

Captnq
2013-10-20, 05:54 PM
You use that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Metagame means you game the game. For example:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html

That is metagaming. When you roll the dice and go, "Hey, the DM asked me to make a spot check and I rolled a 2. There must be something around here." In the game you have no reason to know you failed to spot something, but as the player being asked to make a spot check, you "know" there is something to spot, you just failed.

Karnith
2013-10-20, 05:57 PM
You use that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.
No, the term "metagame" is commonly used and accepted in this manner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metagaming#Adaptation_to_a_specific_gaming_environ ment), albeit typically in regards to competitive games such as Warhammer 40,000, Magic: the Gathering, or many video games (e.g. fighting games, RTSes, and MOBAs).

Alberic Strein
2013-10-20, 06:36 PM
Karnith nailed it quite perfectly.

Well, I didn't think my enjoyment of competitive games affected my vocabulary so much!

What term should I use so it is clear I use it in its "gaming trend" sense and causes no confusion with the... Tabletop RPG originated term...?

Story
2013-10-20, 06:44 PM
Playstyle induced?

I think the worst case I've seen was a PF Alchemist in a campaign where we rarely had more than one encounter a day and the enemies tended to be high on defenses that Alchemists don't care about.

It got to the point where every fight was just 'haste the Alchemist so he kills everyone faster'.

Alberic Strein
2013-10-20, 06:50 PM
True. Thread name changed form Metagame Induced Power to Playstyle/Campaign Induced Overwhelming Power. (As you can pretty much see right now, but we never know, I might end up changing it again!)

Your story about the Alchemist... Is pretty damn awful actually. The DM never came around to adapting his encounters? I know mine is, after the double Holy Storm, one DMM'd into Extend, that I pulled last game...

Squirrel_Dude
2013-10-20, 06:55 PM
Hmm....

Probably when a DM didn't think about the ramifications of letting one of his players, a fey-blooded sorcerer (PF), become a vampire (without forcing him to be evil). Initially it was kind of fun because he had been enslaved, but the command was "You can not harm me," so he could still hang around with us.

What quickly followed, in this urban/intrigue setting, was every social encounter turning into a refrain of "Dominate, dominate, dominate, dominate, dominate, dominate, dominate"