IS ninja good for any performed build?

[CyberThread]

just curious, but is ninja good for ANY sort of build, that isn't better with a rogue or skirmisher

[Urpriest]

I've seen it recommended for Crossbow builds. The loss of sneak attack on a flank doesn't matter much at range, and the occasional invisibility is quite useful.

[Jack_Simth]

just curious, but is ninja good for ANY sort of build, that isn't better with a rogue or skirmisher
It makes a nice two level dip for the 'passive' side of a wis-based gestalt.

[Renegade Paladin]

3.5 or Pathfinder ninja? The responses seem to assume the former, but the OP doesn't say and the answers for the two are very different.

[tyckspoon]

3.5 Ninja gets 2 noteworthy things: low-level access to a form of invisibility that is not broken by attacking, and at higher levels it can strike from the Ethereal to the Material. If your build is not attempting to leverage one of those things, you are probably better off with a different class.

I'm not familiar enough with whatever Pathfinder attached the Ninja label to say anything about that one.

[Story]

Someone in my current group is playing some sort of Ninja/Rogue/Fighter/Master Thrower thing (not sure of the exact build) and he does massive amounts of damage. He uses the invisibility to ensure sneak attacks.

He seems to know a lot about optimization, so it's probably a good build too.

[Snowbluff]

Cyberdrag, I think you've started enough threads for me to say you should have your own avatar by now. :smalltongue:


Someone in my current group is playing some sort of Ninja/Rogue/Fighter/Master Thrower thing (not sure of the exact build) and he does massive amounts of damage. He uses the invisibility to ensure sneak attacks.

He seems to know a lot about optimization, so it's probably a good build too.

Sounds about right. Turn invisible and shuriken from ninja, sneak attack from rogue, fighter for filler feats and BaB, and master thrower to throw 2 at once.

[Renegade Paladin]

3.5 Ninja gets 2 noteworthy things: low-level access to a form of invisibility that is not broken by attacking, and at higher levels it can strike from the Ethereal to the Material. If your build is not attempting to leverage one of those things, you are probably better off with a different class.

I'm not familiar enough with whatever Pathfinder attached the Ninja label to say anything about that one.
Pathfinder ninja retains sneak attack (none of this sudden strike nonsense), has a ki pool like a (Pathfinder) monk and similar to a 3.5 ninja (though keyed off Charisma), and invisibility can be selected as a ninja trick (which work like Pathfinder rogue talents) as early as level 2, though it isn't unbreakable by attacking until after 10th level. It is, however, longer duration at one round per ninja level.

[lsfreak]

3.5 Ninja gets 2 noteworthy things: low-level access to a form of invisibility that is not broken by attacking, and at higher levels it can strike from the Ethereal to the Material. If your build is not attempting to leverage one of those things, you are probably better off with a different class.

Even on that, I'd wager the majority of the time 2 levels in Invisible Fist monk is going to do better at the invisibility thing. Two levels of ninja gets you invisibility as a swift action 1+Wis times per day, while two levels of invisible fist gets it as an immediate action 1/3 rounds. It's otherwise 1d6 of sudden strike, trapfinding, and 2 extra skill points, versus two higher saves, two bonus feats, and flurry.

[CyberThread]

Cyberdrag, I think you've started enough threads for me to say you should have your own avatar by now. :smalltongue:



I did once, had a orc wearing a tutu, and was told am not allowed to modify images.

[Snowbluff]

I did once, had a orc wearing a tutu, and was told am not allowed to modify images.

o.0 Wait what.

Either way, getting on the avatar thread or talk to Ceika. I don't think the Mods have a problem with you using avatars you would have the expressed permission on...

[tyckspoon]

o.0 Wait what.

Either way, getting on the avatar thread or talk to Ceika. I don't think the Mods have a problem with you using avatars you would have the expressed permission on...

Modifying the Giant's artwork is forbidden. That obviously includes any actual Order of the Stick comic images, but it also covers the default avatar selection.

[CyberThread]

grr is that better ?

[Snowbluff]

I don't think animated avatars are allowed.

[CyberThread]

damnit...then why is it a upload option..they should edit the page so it doesn't say you can upload gifs <-<

[Snowbluff]

Not all GIFs are animated. :smalltongue:

[CyberThread]

Well how about this for the gif-ing season

[Urpriest]

Well how about this for the gif-ing season

An avvie with dignity. I approve.

[Psyren]

Pathfinder ninja retains sneak attack (none of this sudden strike nonsense), has a ki pool like a (Pathfinder) monk and similar to a 3.5 ninja (though keyed off Charisma), and invisibility can be selected as a ninja trick (which work like Pathfinder rogue talents) as early as level 2, though it isn't unbreakable by attacking until after 10th level. It is, however, longer duration at one round per ninja level.

PF Ninjas also get mirror image (shadow clone) and acrobatic master, both of which make tumbling around the battlefield to get into position a breeze. The ki pool lets you boost your speed (a great help to small-sized sneaks and tumblers) as well as gain a bonus to stealth and even an extra attack that stacks with haste.

My favorite race for PF Ninja is the Ifrit - their Firesight feat combos extremely well with your smoke bomb, as well as other sources of smoke like Smokesticks and eversmoking bottles. Drop one of those in your square to gain total concealment while still seeing your foes perfectly, and let the shuriken fly.

[Chronos]

The 3.5 ninja can also be used in a divine skillmonkey build, like human ninja 1/cloistered cleric X with Able Learner. Yeah, you could use any skillmonkey class there, but at only one level it doesn't make much difference, and the wis to AC is nice.

[XmonkTad]

It can get into "Avenging Executioner" because it instantly meets the prerequisite "Must have been tragically wronged". It could make an interesting fear build with thar PrC.

Ninja is really only worth a dip otherwise. It suffers from the same unfocused class features that monk did, and why "sudden strike" exists at all is beyond me. That second level invisibility is the best thing it has, and makes 2 levels of it good for a low op campaign.