Stuck on epic levels

[AzureKnight]

I have been playing and dming for many years now and have been lucky enought to have had 2 dms other than myself switch off as to allow us all to play. The problem is our epic level dm has moved off to another state and the group has asked that I now run the epic campaign. The problem here is i am used to taking players from levels 10 to 20 but never beyond that. Our former dm was very masterful in his campaign designs and monster choices. They asked me to run the epic characters but am at a loss. he allowed any race and class as long as it was in a wizards of the coast publishing. The current group are very much overpowered for a normal game with attack bonuses in the 90s for fighter classes and ac scores in the low 100 range. what can i do to give the guys a challenge with that sort of power without being a jerk and infusing an antimagic world if you will. Any help would be greatly appriciated. The champaign if for 4 level 30 ecl pcs.

[Tvtyrant]

If you really feel like continuing the campaign, I would suggest focusing on having monsters that go first and pack a magical wallop. Stuff with no saves, no SR, and no hit are going to be the best. Here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?action=printpage;topic=9207.0)is a good start.

Of particular interest is the Fog line of spells, as the later ones offer cover, slow enemies, and do damage.

[Devronq]

I think you will need yo describe their builds in detail to properly answer a question. For example AC can be easily passed by by killing them or threntening them in different way.

[Ssin]

My advice would be to have a look at the Paragaron template (epic lvl handbook if I am not mistaken) depending on the power of your party you could add it to Pit Fiends / Balors or grab the stats from deities (maybe minus some divine abilities) and to present them as normal encounters. (i.e. not that the party is actually fighting nerull, just use it's stats and name it something else)

[AzureKnight]

The pcs are as thus and all are paragons to my dismay... Pardon me if my spelling is off a bit.

1. Himatula demon elc 30. class fighter
2. Fire Giant Rager Barbarian elc 30
3. Rakshasha sorcerer elc 30
4. Human swashbuckler rouge gestalt lvl 30
5. Mind Flayer spellfire channeler psionic gestault elc 30
6. Sand Giant fighter ranger gestault specialist in 2 weapon fighting took the feat large to huge and used oversized two weapon fighting and an everdancing huge size great sword.

that is the basic rundown of the party they want me to run.

[Tvtyrant]

What about a 50 HD Balor? 30 Balor HD to make it huge, 20 levels of DMM Persist Cleric. It persists Righteous Might on itself to become gargantuan, Surge of Fortune to auto-crit whenever it wants, and it has taken automatic quicken spell 3 times so it can throw out quickened high level spells along with its heightened spell-like blasphemies, which the party auto-fails against.

Less of a complete murder machine? Same thing without any levels in Cleric still gets heightened death blasphemies and can use quicken spell-like to do it twice a round, while also going first by cranking dexterity, having a wand of nerve skitter in its sword, and having superior initiative. It goes first, speaks unutterable blasphemies against the very cosmos, and then mops up.

Another hilarious one would be a Ruby Knight Vindicator with Automatic Quicken Spell to cast an entire list of spells in a turn. This could very easily be over 13 high level spells in the first turn, which means the fight is over. Oh epic D&D, truly thou art a broken exploitable mess of a game.

[AzureKnight]

What about a 50 HD Balor? 30 Balor HD to make it huge, 20 levels of DMM Persist Cleric. It persists Righteous Might on itself to become gargantuan, Surge of Fortune to auto-crit whenever it wants, and it has taken automatic quicken spell 3 times so it can throw out quickened high level spells along with its heightened spell-like blasphemies, which the party auto-fails against.

Less of a complete murder machine? Same thing without any levels in Cleric still gets heightened death blasphemies and can use quicken spell-like to do it twice a round, while also going first by cranking dexterity, having a wand of nerve skitter in its sword, and having superior initiative. It goes first, speaks unutterable blasphemies against the very cosmos, and then mops up.

sick and sadistic ideas I think we can be good friends thank you.

[Devronq]

What about a 50 HD Balor? 30 Balor HD to make it huge, 20 levels of DMM Persist Cleric. It persists Righteous Might on itself to become gargantuan, Surge of Fortune to auto-crit whenever it wants, and it has taken automatic quicken spell 3 times so it can throw out quickened high level spells along with its heightened spell-like blasphemies, which the party auto-fails against.

Less of a complete murder machine? Same thing without any levels in Cleric still gets heightened death blasphemies and can use quicken spell-like to do it twice a round, while also going first by cranking dexterity, having a wand of nerve skitter in its sword, and having superior initiative. It goes first, speaks unutterable blasphemies against the very cosmos, and then mops up.

Another hilarious one would be a Ruby Knight Vindicator with Automatic Quicken Spell to cast an entire list of spells in a turn. This could very easily be over 13 high level spells in the first turn, which means the fight is over. Oh epic D&D, truly thou art a broken exploitable mess of a game.

I'm not familiar with ruby knight vindicator can you explain this cast 13spells in one turn trick?

[Seer_of_Heart]

I'm not familiar with ruby knight vindicator can you explain this cast 13spells in one turn trick?

Rkv gives you an ability to convert turn undead attempts into swift actions and automatic quicken spell means you can make every spell a quickened (and therefore swift action) spell.

[Tvtyrant]

I'm not familiar with ruby knight vindicator can you explain this cast 13spells in one turn trick?

Ruby knight vindicator has the ability to burn turn undead attempts for extra swift actions. With automatic quicken spell and a lot of turn undead attempts you can cast as many spells in one turn as your turn attempts. With a high charisma this can be easily 10+ spells.

[Devronq]

Ruby knight vindicator has the ability to burn turn undead attempts for extra swift actions. With automatic quicken spell and a lot of turn undead attempts you can cast as many spells in one turn as your turn attempts. With a high charisma this can be easily 10+ spells.

Looks it up~

Man it only costs one use of turn undead as well geez that's not broken as hell :P

[Tvtyrant]

Looks it up~

Man it only costs one use of turn undead as well geez that's not broken as hell :P

There is a reason that it is commonly called the "windicator."

Also there are soooo many uses for turn attempts that in a normal game they tend to detract from each other IME. Persisting spells costs a lot, vindicating costs a lot, the devoted feats cost a lot.