New wizards and instant knowledge problem...

[MonkeySage]

As once pointed out by Elan, when a player takes a level as a wizard, they instantly gain knowledge they never had before.
One of my players has expressed interest in multiclassing as a wizard(she's an elven rogue), but I am uncomfortable with just giving her the level in wizard, especially since she has no one to learn from in the party. She has 14 intelligence, so likely wouldn't take very many levels as a wizard... But I'm wondering if there's anything I might be able to do so that her multiclassing doesn't seem unnatural ingame?

Some background info: Her character comes from a noble family, and grew up under pressure to study magic. Feeling she had no control over her own life, she rejected this and instead took to more shady practices, but recently is starting to see how it might behoove her to become a wizard.

[Epsilon Rose]

Out of curiosity, would you make such a requirement of a non-magical class? Keep in mind that every class requires specialized skills, if not heritage.

Beyond that, it could be that she got forced into enough training as a child that as an adult, who's finally interested in the subject, she has the ability to work out the basics on her own or with the help of a few books. Also keep in mind that as an level 14 adventurer she's probably interacted with a few magic users on both sides of things, that might have also helped her pick up some information. This is doubly true if she's had to take apart any magical traps.


Edit: Why did I think she was level 14?

[Gadora]

You could also suggest that, since this seems a planned thing and not a spontaneous choice, maybe she should seek out a teacher the next time there's some downtime?

[MonkeySage]

I suppose my main thing is how the player might rationalize it.. This is actually very early in the game, they're all level 2(save the drow), so at this point a lot can change. What you've said makes sense though, i could let her know this.

[Psyren]

Elan's joke doesn't really apply here because he had neither the mental faculties nor background for wizardry. Your player appears to have both, so multiclassing should be easily permissible.

In other words, your player didn't so much "peek over another wizard's shoulder as she leveled." Rather she "was shown the fundamentals while growing up, but only now in her adult life has she begun to appreciate how it might be used." It's a very common trope really.

[Thrudd]

This is the same question you must ask of all multiclassing, regardless of what class is chosen. How do you explain this in-game? Most people retroactively declare that the character has been dabbling and studying books or with a teacher and practicing new skills in the time prior to leveling up. It's not that much different than taking skill points in a skill your character hasn't used yet and didn't start with. How did they learn to appraise or hide in shadows or use rope? They must have been practicing when nobody was watching...
If making retcons and retroactive statements about a character's actions bothers you, you could make it a rule in your campaign that all intents to multiclass must be declared at least one level prior to being able to actually gain the new class, so that the character has had some amount of time to study and practice. A new level 1 character can multiclass on level 2 if they declare their intended second class at the start of the game.
If you want to be really simulationist and you track of the passage of time strictly, you could simply put an in-game time requirement on multiclassing...a character must have spent at least X number of weeks or months studying either with another PC or NPC or practicing in their off time before they would be allowed to take level 1 in any class. So if there is no in-game downtime between leveling, there will be no multiclassing for anyone, or it may take several levels before enough in-game time has passed to level in the new class.

[MonkeySage]

Great points made.. I've figured out how i'm gonna handle it. At level 1 her character was dead set against wizardry, so level 2 she advanced as a rogue, and gained interest in magic. She didn't go straight to wizard because she had such strong feelings before, but this could mark a change in mindset. Next level she may pick up on it, remember what her parents taught her, etc.


In related topic, Clerics get metamagic in complete divine, wizards too, and even dragons get metabreath... is there anything along these lines for bards in any of the supplements? Our bard is unable to find any feats he feels would be useful.

[Juntao112]

Great points made.. I've figured out how i'm gonna handle it. At level 1 her character was dead set against wizardry, so level 2 she advanced as a rogue, and gained interest in magic. She didn't go straight to wizard because she had such strong feelings before, but this could mark a change in mindset. Next level she may pick up on it, remember what her parents taught her, etc.

Do keep in mind that Rogues get UMD, so they do study magic to some degree.

[Spore]

In related topic, Clerics get metamagic in complete divine, wizards too, and even dragons get metabreath... is there anything along these lines for bards in any of the supplements? Our bard is unable to find any feats he feels would be useful.

Bards are as general a class as it can get. Could you try and explain his (combat) roles?

There are many options: Pick up archery, improve or extend the performances, even such nifty things as exotic weapon prof.: whips along with combat expertise and improved trip.

As for the rogue -> wizard: My DM gave me a teacher and several weeks to relearn magic from the basics my rogue learned as a youth. He studied the fine arts of magic with the money his mother made from owning a brothel so that he hadn't have to live a life like hers and fled the city after stealing a rare artifact from the local thieves guild.

Still, you should consider taking an "adventure break" for that. This isn't sorcery which just "shows up".

[Socratov]

Great points made.. I've figured out how i'm gonna handle it. At level 1 her character was dead set against wizardry, so level 2 she advanced as a rogue, and gained interest in magic. She didn't go straight to wizard because she had such strong feelings before, but this could mark a change in mindset. Next level she may pick up on it, remember what her parents taught her, etc.


In related topic, Clerics get metamagic in complete divine, wizards too, and even dragons get metabreath... is there anything along these lines for bards in any of the supplements? Our bard is unable to find any feats he feels would be useful.

Metamagic Song (RoS p142) is what you are looking for

[KillianHawkeye]

Bards can use metamagic just as well as any spellcaster. :smallconfused:

[Mnemnosyne]

This problem is most egregious with any class whose fluff implies requiring a long period of study before even being able to grasp the basics - Wizard is pretty much the poster boy of such classes, but others exist; most study-based arcane classes are implied to be this way, the Archivist, and even martial classes have a level of this, since it takes lots and lots of training to know awesome kung fu.

The idea that a character was trained in the past can work, if that character's story is amenable to such an explanation, but sometimes it simply isn't plausible. Perhaps the character grew up in a place where such training could not possibly have occurred, perhaps the character specifically did not have such training in their backstory and the player does not want to considerably change the history of the character in order to accommodate this. There are a lot of reasons why that explanation doesn't work.

A lot of these problems can be solved by asking/demanding that players give you a full character plan, all the way up to the level that you intend the campaign to run for, beforehand. Personally, I have a houserule about this:

Build Plan: Characters can advance in planned character classes without the need for external training or lengthy training periods. It is assumed that they are practicing the skills and abilities needed to achieve their pre-planned build. Deviating from the pre-planned build requires additional time for training and practice. With a trainer, this requires one month per hit die of the character (including the new level just being gained). Without a trainer, this requires five months per hit die of the character, with the time primarily devoted to training. Without a trainer, and without being able to devote the majority of the day to training, it requires ten months per hit die to advance into a new, unplanned character class. This replaces the Gaining Class Benefits rule on 198 DMG.

Depending on the in-character pace of the game, 'month' can be 'week' or 'day'. In fast-paced games where months of downtime would be incongruous to the story, I tend to allow that to be sped up, but I tend to prefer to run games where it makes complete sense that the adventurers might take several months or years between adventures.