2e AD&D Rulebook Confusion [First Time DM Seeking Help/Advice: Optional Rules?]

[GoodBadNoobs]

Hello everyone!

I'm going to be starting a 2nd Edition AD&D campaign with a few friends of mine next month and I'm experiencing a lot of confusion with the rulebooks.

It's not hard to grasp the basics, but when I look for details I can't seem to find answers. For example regarding two weapon fighting the player handbook states:

"When attacking, all characters but rangers suffer penalties to their attack rolls. Attacksmade with the main weapon suffer a -2 penalty, and attacks made with the secondweapon suffer a -4 penalty. The character's Reaction Adjustment (based on his Dexterity,see Table 2) modifies this penalty. A low Dexterity score will worsen the character'schance to hit with each attack. A high Dexterity can negate this particular penalty,although it cannotresult in a positive modifier on the attack rolls for either weapon (i.e., the Reaction Adjustment can, at best, raise the attack roll penalties to 0).

Now my friend who wants to be a fighter rolled a low dex score, so it's understandable that he'd have the penalty. The thing that confuses me is that in the fighter handbook it states that there are "Fighting Styles" and they allow you to put weapon proff points into them to lower your penalties.

"If you devote a weapon proficiency slot to style specialization with Two- Weapon Style, you get two important benefits. First, your attack penalty drops; before, it was a –2 with your primary weapon and –4 with your secondary, but with Specialization in Two Weapon Style it becomes 0 with your primary weapon and a –2 with your secondary weapon. (If you're already ambidextrous, as per "Off- Hand Weapons Use," abov e, that penalty is 0 with primary weapon and 0 with secondary weapon.) Second, you're allowed to use weapons of the same length in each hand, so you can, for example, wield two long
swords."

I couldn't find anything in the player handbook talking about fighting styles. I can't tell if I'm missing something, or if half the stuff i'm reading is optional. If it is optional, which books do you guys recommend I use? I have 0 experience with ad&d 2e thus far.

Thanks!

PS. I might have a few more questions to add to this thread throughout this week. Just trying to get a good grasp on it before I start next month. :)

[Rhynn]

Fighting styles are an optional rule introduced in different variations by different supplements (at least The Complete Fighter's Handbook, Player's Option: Skills & Powers and Player's Option: Combat & Tactics).

I recommend using only the PHB and DMG (and any monster books you want) and whatever setting books you want or need. If you and/or your players are dying for more rules for characters, use the Completes. (If you're dying for psionics, the Skills & Powers version is mechanically superior, but the Complete Psionics Handbook version is cooler...)

[WinWin]

There is a lot of optional material spread throughout the various handbooks. Keeping track of it all can be a pain.

I suggest that you keep a spreadsheet of reference pages. I used to keep a list of optional rules and page references, handwritten on a page in my binder, simply to speed up the process of referencing rules in play. I had a couple of tables (Saving throws and THAC0) on a DM screen as well.

Most of the players using special rules kept a reference on their character sheet somewhere. One guy used post-it notes as bookmarks for his favourite spells.

[GoodBadNoobs]

Thank you so much for the replies. I'm starting to understand it better now.

I have just a few more questions regarding balance.

For a fighter/wizard half elf character, who wants to dual wield scimitars, when do you reckon I should give him the ability to get two weapon fighting and ambidexterity. Should it be from the very start? I'm not sure what would be balanced seeing as he's multi classing.

These were his rolls for stats, which I let him assign anywhere. 10,9,11,11,15,15

Using the method in the player handbook with the reaction adjustment seems like it'll really have a harsh effect on his character.

[Erock]

You should let him get them whenever he wants. Taking ambidexterity, two weapon fighting and scimitar proficencies is going to hurt him in the early game more than it'll help. Despite his multi-class, he's taking away his flexibility as a fighter if he sucks up his weapon proficency, and having both hands full will take away his ability to cast certain spells.

[GoodBadNoobs]

He says he'll just drop his weapons when he needs to cast. As for the flexibility you mentioned though, he's going for scimitar prof, two weapon, ambidex, and 1 more. It's only 1 prof slot for each if i'm not mistaking, right? Will it hurt him that much?

[Telok]

Well it certainly means that he won't have Dagger, Morning Star, Long Bow, and Pike proficency.

He's limiting himself to only being skilled in two weapons and a fighting style. If he faces skeletons or stirges he'll have problems without the appropriate weapons (people almost never carry weapons they aren't proficent in) and if he wants to stab something at the bottom of a 10 foot deep hole he will have to climb in with it.

Let him do it, the decision is not overpowered. Plus his unarmored butt will be a tempting target for goblin archers when he bends over to pick his scimitars up off of the ground.

[Jay R]

A 1st level fighter should have a bludgeoning weapon as well, since skeletons are a likely encounter. And he needs a missile weapon.

[GoodBadNoobs]

Sounds good. It makes sense. He'll have an even harder time as well since his character is hiding his magical abilities haha. As for bludgeoning/missile weapon, he has a boomerang, if that counts.

Thanks again for the replies.

[Thrysierius]

Sounds good. It makes sense. He'll have an even harder time as well since his character is hiding his magical abilities haha. As for bludgeoning/missile weapon, he has a boomerang, if that counts.

Thanks again for the replies.

Something else to note, and for spell casters this is important, he cannot wear armor above cloth. Leather armor and above will negate his ability to cast spells. If he wants to be able to use any magic at all, he's limited to cloth, despite the fact that he multi-classed into fighter.

[JadedDM]

Something else to note, and for spell casters this is important, he cannot wear armor above cloth. Leather armor and above will negate his ability to cast spells. If he wants to be able to use any magic at all, he's limited to cloth, despite the fact that he multi-classed into fighter.

Which is why, if he's smart, he'll learn and frequently use the Armor spell. It gives him AC equivalent for chain mail, doesn't interfere with spellcasting, and lasts until you take a specific amount of damage over time.

[Lord Torath]

Which is why, if he's smart, he'll learn and frequently use the Armor spell. It gives him AC equivalent for chain mail, doesn't interfere with spellcasting, and lasts until you take a specific amount of damage over time.Scale mail, actually. The Armor spell gives AC:6. Chainmail is AC:5 If he carries a shield (not the Shield spell) he can get AC:5, but then he can't dual-wield his standard-issue scimitars.

[Matthew]

Fighters only have a two point penalty using weapons with which they are not proficient; overall, using two weapons is almost always going to be a net advantage. The best way to limit it is to ensure that bonuses are not applied twice [e.g. damage from strength is divided between weapons, rather than applied to both], otherwise you could end up in the rather undesirable position of having a two-handed weapon doing 1d10+2 and two scimitars doing 1d8+2/1d8+2.

[Toofey]

I played that build forever (with a better stat spread mind you)

I'd say make him take ambidex and 2 web at the start, it will narrow down his fighter options, but he's also a mage anyway.

If he wants to be able to use magic, and take a highly specialized fighting style there's bound to be trade offs.

In fact really most RPGs are all about trade offs, as the DM you need to stat looking for where the players make these trade offs and embrace them.

no one can have everything if you could everyone would just have everything.

[GoodBadNoobs]

This is really late actually, but i'm about to start DMing this campaign tomorrow and I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies. I completely forgot to check in again, admittedly :(.

I'm going to allow him to use both anyways. I think it should be a good trade off like you guys suggest.

As for not being able to cast his spells, he insists on stripping down from his armor mid combat. We'll see what happens there..

[Rhynn]

As for not being able to cast his spells, he insists on stripping down from his armor mid combat. We'll see what happens there..

That takes a full round (AD&D 2E PHB Revised, page 101, under "Getting Into and Out of Armor"), or 1d4+1 rounds for "piece armor" (plate mail and better, basically). Is the player aware of this?

[GoodBadNoobs]

Yep, haha. I tried to encourage story > character power so he just found a way to work with it. He may learn some more useful spells in future as well, for now I think he managed to learn spider climb, jump, and wall of fog.