OOTS #925 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Trillium]

Yay! Some epic action!

Miron's pretty hurt right now, and Laurin must've wasted a ton of power points.


EDIT! Yay, first comment! O_O

[Don Ohnic]

Wormholes are cheating... Exciting stuff.

Counting down to allosaurus death: 3...2...

[Phase]

It strikes me, once again, how truly massive that is for an Allosaurus.

[Mordae]

You spin me right round... :smallbiggrin:

[talkamancer]

Never updated whilst I was on before. Thanks Giant.

And what was that shield thing that deflected the arrow from Miron's head ?

[Kymme]

Not lookin' good for the Order. :smalleek:

[Shale]

And here we go. Laurin has a lot of options for that wormhole power....

[Mike Havran]

Hoo, some nasty action ahead. Bring it on!

EDIT: Why are Haley's boots glowing?

[mistformsquirrl]

... now I want a dinosaur mount. < . .> Damn.

[Istari]

Hopefully, she'll run out of PP eventually, otherwise its going to be hard to get out of this one.

[Gi01]

Following since December 2003, finally registered.

This is becoming even more epic!

[Seerow]

I'm kind of wondering if that wormhole thing is something she's sustaining and able to move, or if she's seriously blowing a 9th level power worth of PP every round to keep up with the Order. If the latter, she's probably going to burn out quickly.

[Wolv90]

Yay, I love getting surprised by a new comic. Great use of worm hole can't wait to see how the Order figures a way out of this. Quick question though, what if someone shot three arrows at Tarquin?

[Wamyen]

First time I've ever commented on the first page... Anyway. This is starting not to look good. I don't like the odds of a banged up Order versus team Tarquin. And seriously... Mr. Snatch Arrow is starting to get annoying :smallmad:

[Saph]

So Miron's a full caster as well?

That's . . . very bad for the Order.

[Reddish Mage]

That's the first I noticed that Haley's boots glow lime green when she is hasted. I wonder if that occurred in past strips.

[The Guardian]

I really don't know much about psionics, how much power do these wormholes take? And any idea what Haley was hit with?

Also what is that disc blocking the critical hit for Miron?

[Selphares]

Certainly love the Psionic class. :)
And also wonder how that combat will end. Would be quite some etasing if they get at elast one close to the rift again but than not end up in it anyway.:smallbiggrin:

[Mike Havran]

That's the first I noticed that Haley's boots glow lime green when she is hasted. I wonder if that occurred in past strips.I dont think it ever happened before. But why is she hasted, did V cast it?

[joosy]

Hmm.. so Miron can cast Greater Dispell Magic. Hopefully he can only cast it once today otherwise Durkon may be in trouble - but then he can reapply it from the staff, hopefully.

The fastest way to corner the Order is to disable their Allosaurus which means disabling Belkar. :( I can't imagine the Order without him. Alas. Perhaps Durkon can pick up the slack as the evil foil on the team.

Love the lime green haste effect from the boots!

Boots of Speed: As a free action, the wearer can click her boot heels together, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds.

[Pronounceable]

I'm preemptively enjoying the gnashing of teeth from gamers on Laurin's dramatic wasting of power points and how she could've killed them all with X power instead. It's as good as comic itself.

[Crusher]

Hmm, what can we tell about Miron from this?

[Barstro]

I dont think it ever happened before. But why is she hasted, did V cast it?

Pretty sure it's one of the boots' powers. The lime green glow made it through the dyeing process.


EDIT: swordsaged (with a better explanation) by Joosy

[Eldest]

I gotta say, the blue caster (Miron?) being annoyed at being shot in the heart is pretty much my favorite part of this. Just... "Ow. Dangit."

[Shining Wrath]

And it's SO ON.

Order proved Team Tarquin is not invulnerable. I don't know exactly what Laurin did to Haley but I doubt Haley has been one-shot out of the battle.

Laurin is burning through the power points.

And next comic: dino-on-dino action! Tarquin-Roy! Chekov's whip (except, of course, Tarquin has had a chance to re-equip when he went back and equipped himself with an army).

[Forikroder]

things are really heating up

[Boogastreehouse]

I think it looks nice with a little space


I think V caught Haley (who was stunned, maybe?) by hand, and Blackwing caught her bow.


I think it looks nice with a little space

[luc258]

Any explanation what the spell/power was that was cast on Haley?

[Bedinsis]

Speculation:

I think it's about time for Elan to cast an illusion of an Allosaurus with a halfling, a vampire dwarf, a swordsman and a bard with his hand out reached towards himself riding in another direction then the one they're going in.

[RustyVenture]

So Miron is indeed a caster of some kind. Cool.

I hope we get to see what other tricks Malack's staff may have other than the protection from daylight spell. The action is just getting good!

[Hippie_Viking]

I'm kind of wondering if that wormhole thing is something she's sustaining and able to move, or if she's seriously blowing a 9th level power worth of PP every round to keep up with the Order. If the latter, she's probably going to burn out quickly.

Well if she hasnt done anything else with her pp today, at level 20 she should have 343 pp and one level 9 power costs 17 so that is over 20 times she can cast it, so I don't think she is in any danger of running out soon...

[Shining Wrath]

Yay, I love getting surprised by a new comic. Great use of worm hole can't wait to see how the Order figures a way out of this. Quick question though, what if someone shot three arrows at Tarquin?

He'd catch the 3rd one in his teeth. He is, after all, the Magnificent Tarquin.

This being a family friendly strip you don't want to know how he stops a fourth one.

[Yuki Akuma]

I dont think it ever happened before. But why is she hasted, did V cast it?

She's wearing Boots of Speed.

[Qaanol]

Teleporting triceratopses!

...also, based on the comic title "Catching Up with Family" I totally expected them to come across Ian.

[Saph]

Well if she hasnt done anything else with her pp today, at level 20 she should have 343 pp and one level 9 power costs 17 so that is over 20 times she can cast it, so I don't think she is in any danger of running out soon...

Yeah. Trust me, "run the 20th-level psion out of power points" is not a good combat strategy. You'll be dead long before she hits zero.

[Trillium]

Speculation:

I think it's about time for Elan to cast an illusion of an Allosaurus with a halfling, a vampire dwarf, a swordsman and a bard with his hand out reached towards himself riding in another direction then the one they're going in.

Wanted to remind about V knowing Invisibility Sphere (and possibly Mass Invisibility), but remembered that Tarq has Ring of True Seeing.

So, no illusions.

[Mike Havran]

I gotta say, the blue caster (Miron?) being annoyed at being shot in the heart is pretty much my favorite part of this. Just... "Ow. Dangit."Miron is a miser. He's got heart of stone :smalltongue:

[Reddish Mage]

I dont think it ever happened before. But why is she hasted, did V cast it?

Haley mentions having boots of haste that were lime green, I think that was potentially in OTOoPCs. There is a reference here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0675.html).

Edit: The boots also appear here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0608.html). Notice Crystal complements the boots. Haley hates the boots color.

[Story]

Actually the first reference was in 0003 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0003.html).

[Gift Jeraff]

So it turns out she can't avoid the boots being lime green. :smalltongue:

[Bedinsis]

Wanted to remind about V knowing Invisibility Sphere (and possibly Mass Invisibility), but remembered that Tarq has Ring of True Seeing.

So, no illusions.

Darn it. So much for hoping the person with the least expended abilities to be able to use those.

[Reddish Mage]

So it turns out she can't avoid the boots being lime green. :smalltongue:

Only when they are activated, and they now color coordinate with her arrows :smallcool:

[Scifne]

What a strange father Tarquin is.

Great comic.

[Shining Wrath]

Hmm, what can we tell about Miron from this?

He can take two of Haley's arrows and survive.
He's got some sort of arrow blocker up but it's far from perfect.
He cast this:

Dispel Magic, Greater
Abjuration
Level: Brd 5, Clr 6, Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 6

This spell functions like dispel magic, except that the maximum caster level on your dispel check is +20 instead of +10.

Additionally, greater dispel magic has a chance to dispel any effect that remove curse can remove, even if dispel magic can’t dispel that effect.
Based on attire he's not a cleric and lack of animal companion argues against druid, so that makes him a bard (unlikely as I think Tarquin would have mentioned that in his bard conversations with Elan) or a Sorcerer or a Wizard.

Guessing sorcerer. The arrow blocker might be as simple a thing as mage armor or shield - or it might be something Laurin did on Miron's behalf, although the usual glowing stuff from her head isn't shown.

[Orm-Embar]

Thanks Giant!

Hm, what kind of protection spell did Miron use that only stops one arrow at a time?

Can't wait to see what Roy comes up with next. Tarquin Amalgamated Corp. is making a dino-on-dino battle look unavoidable.

[Lossoth]

I guess I'm the only one that assumed the dye on Haley's boots was magic dye, that got dispelled by Miron. Thanks for setting me straight forums.

[Benthesquid]

Wanted to remind about V knowing Invisibility Sphere (and possibly Mass Invisibility), but remembered that Tarq has Ring of True Seeing.

So, no illusions.

You know who probably doesn't have a Ring of True Seeing? The Triceratops. Time for a sexy lady Triceratops illusion, methinks.

Edit: Best guess on Miron's invisible disc- it's the Shield Spell, which creates an invisible disc that hovers in front of you, offering protection. It provides a flat AC bonus, which is why it was only capable of stopping some of the arrows. It's also one of the few things that blocks Magic Missile, so that's handy.

[Trillium]

He can take two of Haley's arrows and survive.
He's got some sort of arrow blocker up but it's far from perfect.
He cast this:

Based on attire he's not a cleric and lack of animal companion argues against druid, so that makes him a bard (unlikely as I think Tarquin would have mentioned that in his bard conversations with Elan) or a Sorcerer or a Wizard.

Guessing sorcerer. The arrow blocker might be as simple a thing as mage armor or shield - or it might be something Laurin did on Miron's behalf, although the usual glowing stuff from her head isn't shown.

It's brown in color, so it's Miron's. Most likely Shield, since it manifests as a disc of force.

[Fitzclowningham]

Darn it. So much for hoping the person with the least expended abilities to be able to use those.

He might be able to fool the triceratops, though.

Edit: Ninja'd!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh great. Here's hoping they can hold them of until dusk--it can't be long now!

I really do think Tarquin will survive to next book though, or at least I hope so. Why would Rich introduce a new side and then remove that side in the same book?

[Shining Wrath]

Just noticed: Blackwing grabbed Haley's bow in "V's got her, Elan" panel. Familiars - is there any problem they can't solve?

[Ezekiel]

Laurin looks angry, I think she just needs a hug....from Durkula :smallbiggrin:

Great strip Giant!

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[sengmeng]

Awesome! You can barely make out (or maybe it's just me since I'm looking at it from a mobile device) that Blackwing caught Haley's bow!

Aww, ninja'ed.

[lordyoshi01]

Hm, what kind of protection spell did Miron use that only stops one arrow at a time?


I'm pretty sure there isn't a spell designed to stop only one arrow at a time, at least in core. It's likely he's just using a normal bonus AC spell such as Shield and or Mage Armor and the one arrow aimed at his head didn't beat his AC while the other two did.

[nephilia]

He can take two of Haley's arrows and survive.
He's got some sort of arrow blocker up but it's far from perfect.


I don't think that those arrows could qualify for a sneak attack since they were well aware of the threat and seems haley is far more distant than 9mt (distance to qualify for SA on ranged weapond if I remember well) anyway... so, assuming no crit, they inflict just 1d8+5 from long bow +1d6 cold damage while in case of critical it would be 1d8+5 x 3, 1d6 cold and 1d10cold !

Maybe the protection was just a deflection bonus on AC who helped him on a low haley's roll while didn't on 2 high haley's roll?

What about Miron being a Cancer Mage? :D
With that bandana covering a rotten mouth or something similar? :D

[Shining Wrath]

It's brown in color, so it's Miron's. Most likely Shield, since it manifests as a disc of force.

Yeah, a +4 to AC would account for stopping only one arrow, that's nice but hardly impressive armor, and the sort of thing a high-level caster would have on 7x24. Wake up in the morning, cast Shield.

BTW, did you matriculate at Miskatonic University?

[Traab]

Meh, had a third arrow been shot at tarq, it likely would have bounced off his armor or otherwise not hurt him. I get the feeling he has some pretty massive ac being a warlord and all. As for running the psion out of power, like was said, unlikely, However, it IS possible that this is going to be a Pyrrhic victory for team tarq in that it will require the use of so much magic that they will then be weakened enough for a coup at home or some such thing. Right now I am picturing the standard left for dead ending to the fight, team tarq teleports home to recuperate from a surprisingly tough fight, (I bet V alone could make them burn quite a few spells to wear him/her down) only to walk into an ambush from the various background enemies of the empire of blood or whatever its called.

[Cynric]

Oooh! Here comes the crunch!
I haven't been this excited by a T-Rex/Triceratops fight since I was nine years old.:smallsmile:

[Trillium]

BTW, did you matriculate at Miskatonic University?

Why, of course!

[Grey Watcher]

Never updated whilst I was on before. Thanks Giant.

And what was that shield thing that deflected the arrow from Miron's head ?

I think it's meant to represent some kind of typed bonus to AC from a magical effect (maybe a Shield spell or something that grants a deflection bonus (although I seem to recall that being denoted with just a "deflect!" sound effect at some point). Which is why, unlike Protection from Arrows, it only manages to block one of the three arrows. (Of course, I don't think Protection from Arrows works against magical arrows anyway.)

[Joe the Rat]

Now they're thinking with portals!

Taking down the Trike would slow them down, but that's not exactly an easy task. This is gonna be a tricky one.

Also note that Tarquin is not going for the dramatic chase scene. Dead serious, he is. Sadly, he's going for the nigh-unstoppable force vs. rag-tag bunch of misfits at the end of their ropes. It's almost like he wants to fail.

[oonker]

And how can a beat up, quasi-magicless, bloodless and hurt order defeat Team Tarquin? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

[i6uuaq]

My first concern was for Haley's bow.

Then I saw that Blackwing caught it.

I love the little details.

[talkamancer]

And how can a beat up, quasi-magicless, bloodless and hurt order defeat Team Tarquin? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

With Awesumness !

[Shining Wrath]

And how can a beat up, quasi-magicless, bloodless and hurt order defeat Team Tarquin? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

It's called morale ... or, sometimes, "Hope". (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0891.html)

[drazen]

Well, that's not good.

I suspect we're about to see Ian soon. I just had a wild and crazy thought this morning: if Ian "knew a place," Tarquin's theory of conservation of detail would strongly imply that the place he was heading to was almost certainly Windy Canyon. He was worried about Tarquin finding him, so Windy Canyon would be his best protection against scrying, save a Cloister, which wasn't available.

And, as a redhead, maybe he was somehow part of Girard's family after all: he was in the anti-magic cells, which I am speculating could have shielded him from Familicide -- and, by extension, his offspring/relatives (because I think the author specifically said it's a chained effect hopping from point to point, and he definitely drew it that way). I imagine we will also discover exactly what Miron wrote to Ian to get him to race off to the Western Continent, which will probably lead to this revelation. I suspect V may well find out she nearly accidentally killed her best friend in her rage-vengeance, and just got INCREDIBLY lucky... and that fluke may well fill her with so much more guilt, that she doesn't want to tell Roy anything more than she already did.

Of course, all that assumes they live through what is their deadliest encounter since facing Xykon.

[Proud Tortoise]

What a cheater! :smallmad:

[Dandria]

Man, he just can't let it go.

[Da'Shain]

... Tarquin just caught two arrows ... so far as I know, you can't do that pre-Epic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection). Is this finally confirmation that he's epic? And has a whopping 25 Dex?

[Faldrath]

Wouldn't disintegrating the triceratops be a better tactic here?

[illyahr]

I really don't know much about psionics, how much power do these wormholes take? And any idea what Haley was hit with?

Also what is that disc blocking the critical hit for Miron?

I'm guessing Haley was hit with a standard Mind Thrust power. Only takes 1 PP to used for 1d10 damage with an addional 1d10 for every extra PP you put into it and DC raised by 1 for every 2 PP you put into it. Spending 5 PP would then cause 5d10 damage or 3d10 with a +1 DC, etc. Will Save negates.

[super dark33]

Aha! Miron's a warlock!

He used Eldritch Warding on panel 6.

[Lvl45DM!]

Badass. Seriously Badass. But if they keep it at a distance Tarquin is useless while Durkula can lay some annoying hurt

[AstralFire]

Wouldn't disintegrating the triceratops be a better tactic here?

Only if a party with two caster in it decided not buffing their mount was a good idea. Which is possible, but unlikely.

[BadAndyMk3]

Oh, THAT Miron! :smallsmile:

[Zancloufer]

I'm guessing Haley was hit with a standard Mind Thrust power. Only takes 1 PP to used for 1d10 damage with an addional 1d10 for every extra PP you put into it and DC raised by 1 for every 2 PP you put into it. Spending 5 PP would then cause 5d10 damage or 3d10 with a +1 DC, etc. Will Save negates.

It would be 5d10 and +2 to save DC. 99% of powers that you can augment damage for automatically scale to higher DCs. It's like heighten power meta-magic, except always on when you augment them.

Also, I'm almost disappointing with the pacing of these updates. They are GOOD updates and are not that slow, but I think it being in the middle of a battle near the perceived end of an arc make the updates seem slower somehow.

[Bulldog Psion]

Tarquin is such a jerk. Reminds me Elan's jerk speech to Nale, actually. "The jerkiest jerk of all!" :smallbiggrin:

I love the detail of Blackwing grabbing and carrying the bow.

[Oko and Qailee]

THE HERBIVORES ARE ATTACKING!!!

At least Laurain is using spells on wormhole instead of all of them on blowing people up.

[CoolWind]

So basically Tarquin can catch any arrow(s) shot at him? :smallconfused:

[innk]

So...... V wins initiative and her choice is... hold monster?

Can´t say I'm not disappointed :smallfrown:

[AstralFire]

Badass. Seriously Badass. But if they keep it at a distance Tarquin is useless while Durkula can lay some annoying hurt

Tarquin's psion by herself has demonstrated herself more powerful than Durkon or Vaarsuvius. Wouldn't be surprised if Miron's the same way. Elan isn't quite enough to even the odds - while I give him more credit than most do, "at a distance atop a mount" is not the ideal place for a melee bard build to contribute. I'm not saying that the Order won't come up with some way to abuse distance, but I think a ranged chase favors Team Tarquin.

[SterlingAvenger]

Fun times Giant!

[juicycaboose]

Aha! Miron's a warlock!

He used Eldritch Warding on panel 6.

while it could be Entropic Warding, i don't think so seeing as the description for Entropic Shield (which the invocation emulates) is something like "a magical field surrounds you glowing chaotically in bursts of multicoloured hues" which that really doesn't look like.

[Joe the Rat]

Aha! Miron's a warlock!

He used Eldritch Warding on panel 6.Given the Greater Dispel Magic, he's got at least 11 levels in a full caster class. Part Warlock, maybe, but he's mostly a real boy caster.

[Everyl]

A psion is doing psion-ey things to Haley's head! I wonder exactly what?

[luc258]

So...... V wins initiative and her choice is... hold monster?

Can´t say I'm not disappointed :smallfrown:

He traded a Hold Monster for a wormgate and a Greater Dispel Magic.
Looks like a good trade, probably not good enough though given how powerful her opponents are.

[illyahr]

Aha! Miron's a warlock!

He used Eldritch Warding on panel 6.

Warlocks can use Dispel Magic so it could be possible. Hadn't considered that option, but since Laurin isn't using core...


It would be 5d10 and +2 to save DC. 99% of powers that you can augment damage for automatically scale to higher DCs. It's like heighten power meta-magic, except always on when you augment them.

Also, I'm almost disappointing with the pacing of these updates. They are GOOD updates and are not that slow, but I think it being in the middle of a battle near the perceived end of an arc make the updates seem slower somehow.

By RAW yes, that's true. We always used an either/or ruling on augmenting powers so a power like Mind Thrust wouldn't overshadow higher-level powers.

[HendoJay]

And how can a beat up, quasi-magicless, bloodless and hurt order defeat Team Tarquin? :smalleek::smalleek::smalleek:

It's highly likely that if Tarquin is neutralized (not killed) Miron and Laurin will abandon the fight.

Laurin seems to be only interested in maintaining their position of power.

Miron will stop if the profit margin drops. Also, the favor says nothing about successfully killing Roy. The call-in was based only on Miron accompanying, which he's done.

If they kill Tarquin however, I'm pretty sure Laurin will go berserk.

[sengmeng]

I'm pretty sure there isn't a spell designed to stop only one arrow at a time, at least in core. It's likely he's just using a normal bonus AC spell such as Shield and or Mage Armor and the one arrow aimed at his head didn't beat his AC while the other two did.

That could be, but since it only protected his face, I interpreted it as some sort of crit negating item or spell. It also could be a spell or effect that DOES completely and totally stop a single attack per round, but the shield spell makes the most sense since its description mentions a disc of force.

[Shining Wrath]

So...... V wins initiative and her choice is... hold monster?

Can´t say I'm not disappointed :smallfrown:

Escaping is the Order's order of business. They don't want this fight.

[Snails]

Is this the first time Haley has used her Boots of Speed (Haste)?

[Zancloufer]

Warlocks can use Dispel Magic so it could be possible. Hadn't considered that option, but since Laurin isn't using core...


Could just be as simple as he is a wizard and researched a wizard's version of entrophic shield. Researching Powers/Spells is technically core iic. Also the Warlock's dispel magic is called something else, not dispel magic.



By RAW yes, that's true. We always used an either/or ruling on augmenting powers so a power like Mind Thrust wouldn't overshadow higher-level powers.

I don't see how it does though. You can make a will save for 0 damage. Higher level powers do more damage (in a larger area) for less relative Power Points anyway.

[Kaulguard]

Stupid teleporting herbivores.

This whole frying pan to fire to lava to hell thing you have going on is working well, I think. Thanks G!

[Ermete]

Any explanation what the spell/power was that was cast on Haley?

maybe maybe an augmented Psionic Blast

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicBlast.htm

[RMS Oceanic]

So it was Team Tarquin that fled into a rift! :smallbiggrin:

Sadly I see Big Guy going down next comic. On a wider scale, this is where Elan may finally step up with that plan. Tarquin's doing all this for him, so I think it will be his actions that save the Order.

[Pvednes]

Do we know what Haley's expensive arrows are?

[Lordchoculla]

New comic is up.

Looks like it'll be a cool battle ... again.Thanks :smallsmile:.

[AKA_Bait]

maybe maybe an augmented Psionic Blast

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psionicBlast.htm

Looks too targeted for that. The psionic blast is a cone shaped effect with a 30 ft. cone. This looks more like a line effect.

[Greatmoustache]

i'm really getting tired of all this long (i mean LONG) climax-ey stuff since lg first showed up on pyramid's airspace.

both story-wise (the order's been fighting for their lives since then, no quarter given. i mean give the guys a break.) and reader-wise (whoa cool fight, oh this is just unfair, yay they did it, oh this is just unfair, yeah they did it again, oh COME ON, yay they did it AGAIN, ok now they're dead, repeat.)

i dunno, it's probably just me. just wanted to get it out of my chest.

also, i think miron has some kind of protection against criticals, seeing how the arrow that would poke him in the head was deflected. (not really that into d&d rules but that's my guess anyway.)

[Oko and Qailee]

She's wearing Boots of Speed.

They even glow in the panel!! Nice touch by Rich IMO

[Oko and Qailee]

i'm really getting tired of all this long (i mean LONG) climax-ey stuff since lg first showed up on pyramid's airspace.


I agree, I think we had a few too many fights and its beginning to feel a bit odious. The feeling of "oh no will the Order live?!" has been going on for a while, and its not just because of release rate.

It's still good, and all this stuff has to happen, it just doesn't feel that good.

[Lettuce]

Eeek, this looks like a nasty battle coming up. I hope Haley's not completely out of commission yet.

And ow, Mirion got the worst of it even though he's got two meat shields riding in front of him... That and his Dispell Magic confirm he's a light weight clothie caster. (I'm guessing not a wizard; he doesn't seem particularly studied, from his earlier comments and laid-back attitude.) Interesting that the arrow aimed at his head didn't land; some kind of magic item? I'm pretty sure that there's only one attack roll made for all of the arrows, so it's not like one arrow didn't pass his AC--but then again, I don't know for sure how 3e Manyshot works.

On a related note, I like Tarquin's double arrow snatch. Very classy! :smallbiggrin:

[AstralFire]

i'm really getting tired of all this long (i mean LONG) climax-ey stuff since lg first showed up on pyramid's airspace.

both story-wise (the order's been fighting for their lives since then, no quarter given. i mean give the guys a break.) and reader-wise (whoa cool fight, oh this is just unfair, yay they did it, oh this is just unfair, yeah they did it again, oh COME ON, yay they did it AGAIN, ok now they're dead, repeat.)

i dunno, it's probably just me. just wanted to get it out of my chest.

also, i think miron has some kind of protection against criticals, seeing how the arrow that would poke him in the head was deflected. (not really that into d&d rules but that's my guess anyway.)

It's happened before, it'll happen again. Things read differently in books rather than on an irregular webcomic update schedule.

[DigoDragon]

Reminds me of combat railroading. PCs trying to escape? Nope!

[Marlowe]

Also the Warlock's dispel magic is called something else, not dispel magic.


Voracious Dispelling. Or Devour Magic.

I'm a bit scared of Laurin here. She's got a real Nanoha look to her party face. Something you never want to see in an opponent.

[AKA_Bait]

I'm pretty sure that there's only one attack roll made for all of the arrows, so it's not like one arrow didn't pass his AC--but then again, I don't know for sure how 3e Manyshot works.


There is one attack roll made, but for each shot past the second there is an attack penalty. So, it's entirely possible that one of the five would be at a low enough bonus to miss when two others hit.

Also, your avatar is quite nice.

[juicycaboose]

Warlocks can use Dispel Magic so it could be possible.


Warlocks don't get Greater Dispel Magic though. They get Voracious Dispelling et al.

[Doug Lampert]

Reminds me of combat railroading. PCs trying to escape? Nope!

Trying to run from a level 17+ full caster specialized in movement and it not working is not railroading. It's the system working as expected.

Now if they disable L and suddenly something ELSE stops them from running accusations of being like railroading might have some basis, but this is the OpFor using their KNOWN and established resources in a fairly simple and straightforward way.

[TengYt]

Hey, look at Durkon in the last panel. It seems like he's casting something...Nice detail!

[davidbofinger]

He traded a Hold Monster for a wormgate and a Greater Dispel Magic.
Looks like a good trade

Considering the vampire-killing potential of Greater Dispel Magic, it might have been a very good trade.

It might be worth remembering that Miron probably doesn't care all that much if he fights smart or efficient. As long as he fights he can cross off the favour and the rest is Tarquin's problem. So if Miron wastes a powerful spell on a job that didn't really need it, well, no big deal. Unless Miron gets killed, anyway.

[Greatmoustache]

It's happened before, it'll happen again. Things read differently in books rather than on an irregular webcomic update schedule.

yeah you're right, for example the battle for azure city was tough. followed by dstp. which was as dark as it could get. but still, i kinda feel like it was more fun to read somehow. and didn't make me feel this hopeless. i think.

i'm not sure if it's just that i'm bored of this long conflict, or fear for the order, or both. i just want it to be over and the order to rest.

[Sir_Leorik]

And it's on! The Order of the Stick (plus "borrowed" Allosaurus) vs. half of Team Tarquin (plus legally registered Triceratops)!

Comments (and answers to questions raised on the first page that will no doubt be brought up again) below!


... what was that shield thing that deflected the arrow from Miron's head ?




Also what is that disc blocking the critical hit for Miron?


Most likely the spell Shield (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shield.htm).


I really don't know much about psionics, how much power do these wormholes take?

Your guess is as good as mine. It's a 2E Psionic Science from the Discipline of Psychoportation, not a 3.X Psion or Nomad Power. (Yeah, Psionics in D&D has always been weird. The terminology is always changing from edition to edition.) The a short rundown of the 3.5 Psionics Rules added to the SRD can be found here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowersOverview.htm).


I'm kind of wondering if that wormhole thing is something she's sustaining and able to move, or if she's seriously blowing a 9th level power worth of PP every round to keep up with the Order. If the latter, she's probably going to burn out quickly.

I think the latter. As I said, Wormhole isn't a 3.X Power, it was something Laurin clearly had houseruled from her days as a 2E Psionicist, so there's no telling what she can do with it. But if it's treated as a 9th level Power, she probably can't Augment it much without using Overchanneling or another means of raising her Manifester level.


So Miron's a full caster as well?

That's . . . very bad for the Order.

Yeah, and we can now officially rule out Warlock as an option for Miron's class. He could still be either a Wizard or Sorcerer; the jury's still out on that.


And any idea what Haley was hit with?

A Psionic power. Since we don't know Laurin's Discipline, it could have been a lot of things, but seeing how Haley looks Dazed or Stunned, I'm guessing it was something Mind-Affecting.


I'm preemptively enjoying the gnashing of teeth from gamers on Laurin's dramatic wasting of power points and how she could've killed them all with X power instead. It's as good as comic itself.

Don't encourage them! Seriously, I'm having plenty of fun trying to determine which Spells and Powers Miron and Laurin use, without the CharOp Police showing up to shut the party down! :smalltongue:


Hmm, what can we tell about Miron from this?

He's not a Warlock, and his AC isn't that great. His Shield spell only prevented one of Haley's arrows from perforating him (besides the two that Tarquin Snatched; pretty bad-ass by the way!), and that arrow was probably the one with the lowest attack bonus of the five. (I assume Tarquin Snatched the first two he was able to, which would have had the highest attack bonuses).


I think V caught Haley (who was stunned, maybe?) by hand, and Blackwing caught her bow.

Nice catch (pardon the pun) Boogastreehouse! I didn't notice that till I saw you mention it! Blackwing is definitely a full member of the Order, even if they mostly ignore him!

[Zancloufer]

There is one attack roll made, but for each shot past the second there is an attack penalty. So, it's entirely possible that one of the five would be at a low enough bonus to miss when two others hit.


(Improved) Rapid Shot gives +1 arrow. Since Haley's Green Boots of Haste seem active that's +1 attack, and iirc she has at least 11 BAB giving her a base of 3 attacks on a full attack. It's quite possible for her to have 5+ attacks, but the 4th and 5th would be at -5 and -10 so they could miss where the other 3 would hit. Plus each attack would be a separate attack roll. If she was Manyshotting also you would see 8-10 arrows flying forth.



I think the latter. As I said, Wormhole isn't a 3.X Power, it was something Laurin clearly had houseruled from her days as a 2E Psionicist, so there's no telling what she can do with it. But if it's treated as a 9th level Power, she probably can't Augment it much without using Overchanneling or another means of raising her Manifester level.


A 9th level power cost 17 PP. It Lauren is 20th level she can dump up to 20 PP before Manifester level buffs. It's also possible since it's homeruled/custom power, she might be able to move it as a concentration check, and keep it open for 1 Round /ML.

[tulebast]

Teleporting triceratopses!

...also, based on the comic title "Catching Up with Family" I totally expected them to come across Ian.

Me too, I am a little disappointed to not see him popping up here. At least with the army o' mooks off panel now we might get updates a little more frequently... :smallsmile:

[tulebast]

I agree, I think we had a few too many fights and its beginning to feel a bit odious. The feeling of "oh no will the Order live?!" has been going on for a while, and its not just because of release rate.

It's still good, and all this stuff has to happen, it just doesn't feel that good.

Yeah, kinda reminds me of reading successive Michael Crichton chapters.

[Roland Itiative]

So, I guess the Order has absolutely no way out. Which means either a Deus Ex Machina, or Tarquin's Team won't come out on top.

Looking forward for more.

[Taojnhy]

I don't know enough (read: at all) about D&D classes to definitively say one way or another, but is it possible that Laurin blocked that arrow that was attempting to rendezvous with Miron's forehead?

Notice in that panel that instead of three orbs, there's only two (green and yellow/orange) and that small disc shield, then in the next panel we see the third orb (red) hovering in close proximity to where the disc was in the previous panel.

[factotum]

I don't know enough (read: at all) about D&D classes to definitively say one way or another, but is it possible that Laurin blocked that arrow that was attempting to rendezvous with Miron's forehead?

That's immediately what I thought had happened, to be honest--the little circular shield the arrow bounced off looked completely different to the usual "Protection from Arrows" thing, and also Laurin's eyes were already glowing yellow in that panel, *before* she attacked Haley.

[wolfdreams01]

Laurin just one-shotted Haley? Wow, things are looking increasingly bad for the Order. My assessment of their ability to get out of this through combat are dropping steadily.

I have to wonder though... what would happen if Elan jumped in front of the Triceratops? Or even better, deliberately impaled himself on its horn and died?

Tarquin has no reason to hurt his friends if Elan is no longer around. After all, the only reason he was fighting the Order is to make Elan the lone hero. With Elan dead, there's no way he can do that. After all, Elan's soul can refuse to be resurrected by anyone other than Durkon. (Remember that Durkon has enough diamond dust for one more Resurrection...?)

In other words, the ONLY way Tarquin could get his wish to have Elan dethrone him is to let the Order live so that they can Resurrect Elan and he will come back for Tarquin at some future time. Otherwise, Tarquin will have killed both his sons FOR NOTHING. And he doesn't seem like the kind of person who would want to do that.

It would probably infuriate and gratify him in equal measure that one of his sons was able to get the best of him, but that "painful fatherly affection" is part of what makes Tarquin such an interesting character.

[Ermete]

Looks too targeted for that. The psionic blast is a cone shaped effect with a 30 ft. cone. This looks more like a line effect.

Yeah...too bad..I was checking (quickly) the list of psionic power but I haven't identified a valid alternative candidate...I was going to say "maybe some metamagic feat allows you to shift from cone to ray"...but I have only find a feat that does the opposite... :smallfrown:

any other idea?

Or maybe it is a OoST modified version :smallbiggrin:

[AKA_Bait]

So, I guess the Order has absolutely no way out. Which means either a Deus Ex Machina, or Tarquin's Team won't come out on top.

Looking forward for more.

There's also the possibility that Tarquin's Team does come out on top, but spares every member of the order except Roy. Remember that Tarquin's only goal here is to be sure that Elan is the main hero by offing the current team leader.

[Da'Shain]

I don't know enough (read: at all) about D&D classes to definitively say one way or another, but is it possible that Laurin blocked that arrow that was attempting to rendezvous with Miron's forehead?

Notice in that panel that instead of three orbs, there's only two (green and yellow/orange) and that small disc shield, then in the next panel we see the third orb (red) hovering in close proximity to where the disc was in the previous panel.You can actually see the third orb hovering in front of her head in that panel -- follow the line of her angry brow up a little and it's covering some of her hair.

[1337Noooob]

Hoo, some nasty action ahead. Bring it on!

EDIT: Why are Haley's boots glowing?

Probably answered already, but Haley asked the tailor guy who Elan tried to haggle with to paint her Boots of Speed (which were lime green, so she never used them) to a colour that would work for her. I guess that she used the Haste ability from the boots and the magic made them turn green

EDIT: Did Miron cast Greater Dispel Magic on the triceratops or was it the mass version? Haley and V aren't falling all of a sudden, so I'm confused as to why Miron would remove the buffs on his mount?

EDIT: I understand now that V cast Hold Monster and Miron dispelled it.

[innk]

Escaping is the Order's order of business. They don't want this fight.

Of course, but why not prismatic spray the whole bunch, simply disintegrate the dinosaur, force cage it, or whatever else in order to actually eliminate it from the pursuit? Looked like she was saving spells slots or something..

[Lettuce]

So...... V wins initiative and her choice is... hold monster?

Can´t say I'm not disappointed :smallfrown:

I actually loved this touch. It slows down the entire group of baddies following them one with spell, without hurting any innocents. V specifically avoided attacking the dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), too.

I'd say that this is part of his character growth.

Alternatively, if you have a certain specific amount of spells prepared and one is Hold Monster, and there's a situation where that spell would be useful--I'd go for it. Offensive spells are more wildly applicable to any later conflict; Hold Monster is a bit more niche to use effectively.


There is one attack roll made, but for each shot past the second there is an attack penalty. So, it's entirely possible that one of the five would be at a low enough bonus to miss when two others hit.

Also, your avatar is quite nice.

Ahh, okay. Thanks for the correction. :smallredface: And the compliment! *redhead fistbump*


(Improved) Rapid Shot gives +1 arrow. Since Haley's Green Boots of Haste seem active that's +1 attack, and iirc she has at least 11 BAB giving her a base of 3 attacks on a full attack. It's quite possible for her to have 5+ attacks, but the 4th and 5th would be at -5 and -10 so they could miss where the other 3 would hit. Plus each attack would be a separate attack roll. If she was Manyshotting also you would see 8-10 arrows flying forth.

Thank you, too, Zancloufer! You guys are all really knowledgeable about this stuff. :smallbiggrin:

[Taojnhy]

You can actually see the third orb hovering in front of her head in that panel -- follow the line of her angry brow up a little and it's covering some of her hair.

Ah, I stand corrected.

[Diadem]

Tarquin catching 2 arrows at once while riding a dinosaur? Damn, that guy continues to be double plus epic.

He's probably going to die soon since he's not the main antagonist of the story, and his plots seems to be wrapping up. That was of course always what was going to happen to a bad guy like him, but I am still going to miss him.

Keep up the good work Giant!

[innk]

I actually loved this touch. It slows down the entire group of baddies following them one with spell, without hurting any innocents. V specifically avoided attacking the dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), too.

I'd say that this is part of his character growth.

Alternatively, if you have a certain specific amount of spells prepared and one is Hold Monster, and there's a situation where that spell would be useful--I'd go for it. Offensive spells are more wildly applicable to any later conflict; Hold Monster is a bit more niche to use effectively.



This actually is a very nice point of view!

Indeed if you had a hold monster already prepared what the hell right?

I think I was just really expecting to see a prismatic spray or some other high level spell if she had initiative, since there was an imminent threat of getting 1 shot killed if the enemies managed to cast before V.. gladly it didn't happen, I think!
:)


edit: however, she absolutely didn't avoided attacking dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html).. I think the scene you suggested just happened because it was a chain lightning, hitting specific targets instead of aoeing them

[Ermete]

I hope it is not this one:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm

on failed safe the effect are quite brutal..

[Menas]

If I was V I'd fireball the Triceratops. There'd be less chance of TT countering the spell since it wouldn't be directed at them and they wouldn't be expecting it. It could immobilize the Triceratops stopping TT from pursuing effectively and potentially negate its attack, or at least disorient it long enough for the Allosaurus to pull along the side and bite down sideways. Also, TT would need to save against damage from the fireball, and damage from being thrown/blown from the Triceratops, and potential fire damage, and they'd all likely lose a round of attack while doing so.

[Lettuce]

This actually is a very nice point of view!

Indeed if you had a hold monster already prepared what the hell right?

I think I was just really expecting to see a prismatic spray or some other high level spell if she had initiative, since there was an imminent threat of getting 1 shot killed if the enemies managed to cast before V.. gladly it didn't happen, I think!
:)

edit: however, she absolutely didn't avoided attacking dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html).. I think the scene you suggested just happened because it was a chain lightning, hitting specific targets instead of aoeing them

Well, I think I remember a discussion that, stats-wise, s/he could have easily hit at least some of the other dinos with chain-lightning if s/he so chose.

Your link is a good point, though. Oh well. :smallsigh:

[Doug Lampert]

Of course, but why not prismatic spray the whole bunch, simply disintegrate the dinosaur, force cage it, or whatever else in order to actually eliminate it from the pursuit? Looked like she was saving spells slots or something..

Disintigrate is a lousy idea, it won't scratch the paint on the Triceratops.

Forcecage is LESS effective than hold monster, as Laurin can just wormhole out without needing the greater dispell.

Prismatic Spray is depending on luck, as many of the powers are simply small amounts of damage with a save for half and they ALL have too many HP to be blinded and most of the other effects are just modest amounts of damage.

It's really hard to come up with a better power than "make two higher level casters waste powers and actions with a single spell". Hold monster was fine.

[t209]

Oh No! They're about to get rammed.

[weezaard]

Man, I don't know what's going to happen. Very excited for every update at the present.

Dinosaur action!

[Doug Lampert]

If I was V I'd fireball the Triceratops. There'd be less chance of TT countering the spell since it wouldn't be directed at them and they wouldn't be expecting it. It could immobilize the Triceratops stopping TT from pursuing effectively and potentially negate its attack, or at least disorient it long enough for the Allosaurus to pull along the side and bite down sideways. Also, TT would need to save against damage from the fireball, and damage from being thrown/blown from the Triceratops, and potential fire damage, and they'd all likely lose a round of attack while doing so.

How does a fireball stop a Triceratops? 10d6 fire damage vs. it's 196 HP?

Triceratops stats are in the SRD. The generic non-advanced model has 196 HP, you can get double that without advancing in size, if you do advance in size it gets silly as the Con goes up even further.

[Breccia]

Lame herbivore, heh.

Also, Tarquin snatched two arrows at once. That's pretty hefty stuff...especially since it also means he's guiding a freaking triceratops WITH HIS KNEES. Props for skill ranks.

EDIT: Diadem beat me to that punch.

[Menas]

How does a fireball stop a Triceratops? 10d6 fire damage vs. it's 196 HP?

Triceratops stats are in the SRD. The generic non-advanced model has 196 HP, you can get double that without advancing in size, if you do advance in size it gets silly as the Con goes up even further.

Well, if you're going to take actual real life mechanics and reactions by creatures from getting shot in the face with a giant fireball and potentially being on fire into account, which my campaigns do, then it would stop/slow/disorient the Triceratops plenty, even if the creature weren't killed by the blast.

And like I said, it would also generate collateral damage to TT and probably disorient them for a round if they're thrown from the mount.



It's really hard to come up with a better power than "make two higher level casters waste powers and actions with a single spell". Hold monster was fine.

I agree on this point.

[zimmerwald1915]

edit: however, she absolutely didn't avoided attacking dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html).. I think the scene you suggested just happened because it was a chain lightning, hitting specific targets instead of aoeing them
The dinosaurs in 923 were proved and ongoing impediments to Pistachios' ability to keep Roy, Durkon, Elan and Belkar away from Tarquin. The raptor was latched on to Pistachios' leg and would have slowed him down had he remained so. The other allosaur had already slowed Pistachios down long enough for the latter to start making attacks against it, and would have kept distracting Pistachios. The pterosaurs, meanwhile, were really in no position to stop Haley, Elan and V from getting where they were going without riders.

And hey, you know a set of V's actions has got to be excusable if I'm defending it, right? :smallamused:

[Adeptus]

Excellent! We haven't seen a high level dust-up for a while. TT are a scary bunch, but the Order are tough as well these days. I won't even try to predict what happens, but I'm rather worried for Big Guy.

[Adeptus]

I wonder if Laurin could be a Wilder?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/wilder.htm

[Benthesquid]

Laurin just one-shotted Haley? Wow, things are looking increasingly bad for the Order. My assessment of their ability to get out of this through combat are dropping steadily.


Well, Laurin just knocked Haley out of the sky. Without knowing much about psionics, offhand that could mean

A) Some sort of mindboggling effect that removes her ability to control her direction.
B) Something that stunned her for one round.
C) Something that just removed her ability to fly (Psionic Dispel or whatever).
D) Something that dramatically increased the effect of gravity on Haley (probably not since V is able to catch her and Blackwing is able to catch the bow)
E) Something that teleported Haley to the Elemental Plane of Limes, and instantly replaced her with an evil doppelganger of some manner, since TT's rogue/assassin isn't handy for this fight.

[Manji]

Hey, look at Durkon in the last panel. It seems like he's casting something...Nice detail!

more like he's climbing down the dino, I wonder what will he do?

can he dominate the triceratops?

[AKA_Bait]

I hope it is not this one:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm

on failed safe the effect are quite brutal..

Yikes. That seems to be a better fit that the other suggestions I've seen though.

[innk]

more like he's climbing down the dino, I wonder what will he do?

can he dominate the triceratops?

It is just the same scene from panel 1 but flipped on the other direction...

[Knight.Anon]

I can't see the Order getting out of this one without some third party coming into play. Maybe Ian is around? Wandering Monster anyone?

I still think that Tarquin's crew are second edition.

[zimmerwald1915]

It is just the same scene from panel 1 but flipped on the other direction...
Not really. The Order's expressions are all different between the first panel and the last, Durkon is visible in the first panel but obscured in the last, different landforms are behind the dinosaurs in the first and last panels, Pistachios' mouth is open wider in the last panel than it is in the first, Pistachios and the triceratops are closer together in the last panel than they are in the first...

[Sir_Leorik]

Do we know what Haley's expensive arrows are?

Normal arrows fired with a +5 Icy Burst Longbow (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0615.html). In 3.5 and 4E enhancement bonuses to arrows do not stack with enhancement bonuses to bows. Haley's bow gives it's magical properties to the normal arrows she's firing. The only time we've seen Haley fire magical arrows, they had special properties (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0517.html) her bow didn't have.


It's happened before, it'll happen again. Things read differently in books rather than on an irregular webcomic update schedule.

Irregular Webcomic! (http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/) is updating? :smallconfused: Haven't they been on reruns for years? :smallwink:



Reminds me of combat railroading. PCs trying to escape? Nope!

Pretty much. Laurin is forcing Elan to deal with his daddy issues (and the rest of the Order to deal with their "being murdered by Elan's Daddy" issues). :smalltongue:


Considering the vampire-killing potential of Greater Dispel Magic, it might have been a very good trade.

It might be worth remembering that Miron probably doesn't care all that much if he fights smart or efficient. As long as he fights he can cross off the favour and the rest is Tarquin's problem. So if Miron wastes a powerful spell on a job that didn't really need it, well, no big deal. Unless Miron gets killed, anyway.

Unless Miron's a Sorcerer. Then he can cast as many Greater Dispel Magics as he has 6th level slots remaining.


That's immediately what I thought had happened, to be honest--the little circular shield the arrow bounced off looked completely different to the usual "Protection from Arrows" thing, and also Laurin's eyes were already glowing yellow in that panel, *before* she attacked Haley.

Protection from Arrows provides DR 10/Magic against any missile weapon. Haley's bow is magic, therefore Protection from Arrows would not work on her arrows.


I actually loved this touch. It slows down the entire group of baddies following them one with spell, without hurting any innocents. V specifically avoided attacking the dinos here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0921.html), too.

I'd say that this is part of his character growth.

Alternatively, if you have a certain specific amount of spells prepared and one is Hold Monster, and there's a situation where that spell would be useful--I'd go for it. Offensive spells are more wildly applicable to any later conflict; Hold Monster is a bit more niche to use effectively.

I like both explanations; V is trying not to use flashy magic, and Hold Monster keeps the Triceratops parked until the magic is dispelled. The fact that Miron could do so in the same round merely means that Miron's action was wasted on getting the Triceratops moving again, rather than casting a high level spell. In addition, Triceratops (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#triceratops) have a Will save of only +6, while their Fort Save is +19. Any spell that requires a Will save is a much better choice than Disintegrate. :smallamused:

[zimmerwald1915]

Unless Miron's a Sorcerer. Then he can cast as many Greater Dispel Magics as he has 6th level slots remaining.
And level 7 slots. And level 8 slots. And level 9 slots.

[Kevka Palazzo]

First thing I thought when I read this was:

"Keep turning around! Laurin will keep wasting PP on wormhole!"

[Shining Wrath]

Of course, but why not prismatic spray the whole bunch, simply disintegrate the dinosaur, force cage it, or whatever else in order to actually eliminate it from the pursuit? Looked like she was saving spells slots or something..

Rule of story, or not certain what would / would not work on Team Tarquin (known to be high level).

Disintegrate does ~ 30d6 for a 15th level caster, or 105 pts. A standard triceratops has about 196. I'm willing to wager a shiny new nickle that Tarquin's mount is a little (or a lot) better than standard.

Prismatic spray is going to hit each member of TT with a ray (or, if you're lucky, 2). Each ray gives a save. The "warmer" 3 rays will be relatively small amounts of damage, probably halved by Reflex. The "colder" 2 rays are negated by Will which all of TT will probably make. The only hope for a decisive victory is to hit a caster with Green and hope they fail their Fort save.

[Gift Jeraff]

Laurin just one-shotted Haley? Wow, things are looking increasingly bad for the Order. My assessment of their ability to get out of this through combat are dropping steadily.

I have to wonder though... what would happen if Elan jumped in front of the Triceratops? Or even better, deliberately impaled himself on its horn and died?

Tarquin has no reason to hurt his friends if Elan is no longer around. After all, the only reason he was fighting the Order is to make Elan the lone hero. With Elan dead, there's no way he can do that. After all, Elan's soul can refuse to be resurrected by anyone other than Durkon. (Remember that Durkon has enough diamond dust for one more Resurrection...?)

In other words, the ONLY way Tarquin could get his wish to have Elan dethrone him is to let the Order live so that they can Resurrect Elan and he will come back for Tarquin at some future time. Otherwise, Tarquin will have killed both his sons FOR NOTHING. And he doesn't seem like the kind of person who would want to do that.

It would probably infuriate and gratify him in equal measure that one of his sons was able to get the best of him, but that "painful fatherly affection" is part of what makes Tarquin such an interesting character.

Only Durkon needs to survive for that to happen. Don't see how it helps Roy, Belkar, or V.

[AstralFire]

yeah you're right, for example the battle for azure city was tough. followed by dstp. which was as dark as it could get. but still, i kinda feel like it was more fun to read somehow. and didn't make me feel this hopeless. i think.

i'm not sure if it's just that i'm bored of this long conflict, or fear for the order, or both. i just want it to be over and the order to rest.

For what it's worth, I feel the same way, it's just an unavoidable consequence of the format. I just don't visit here with regularity when I'm getting that feeling, and put it out of my mind, so when I come back it feels fresh.

[Lombard]

Reading up on some of this psionic stuff.. what their powers do, how many power points those powers cost, and of course how many power points a psion is likely to have lol. I'm kinda like wow that's stupidly OP hello?? :smallconfused:

[Skull the Troll]

I'm preemptively enjoying the gnashing of teeth from gamers on Laurin's dramatic wasting of power points and how she could've killed them all with X power instead. It's as good as comic itself.

This is exactly why I never read past page 8 of the threads anymore. All rational discussion has ceased by then. :)

I wonder a couple things about one. First is Miron has to be hurting with an arrow to the chest like that. I surprised to see him just yank it out. The second is "Where did Haley's 5th arrow go?" Excellent comic, I feel like the pacing and the writing has just been superb.

[innk]

Not really. The Order's expressions are all different between the first panel and the last, Durkon is visible in the first panel but obscured in the last, different landforms are behind the dinosaurs in the first and last panels, Pistachios' mouth is open wider in the last panel than it is in the first, Pistachios and the triceratops are closer together in the last panel than they are in the first...

What I mean is that Durkon is siting on the right side of the dino, going this direction:

------>

He is still siting on the same place he was before, but the dino is running on that direction:

<------


On the 1st panel we were seeing the right side of the dino, on the last panel we are seeing the left side. :smallbiggrin:

[zimmerwald1915]

Reading up on some of this psionic stuff.. what their powers do, how many power points those powers cost, and of course how many power points a psion is likely to have lol. I'm kinda like wow that's stupidly OP hello?? :smallconfused:
Welcome to Tier 1. Please enjoy your heroes feast and pay no attention to the thought bottles behind the curtain.


On the 1st panel we were seeing the right side of the dino, on the last panel we are seeing the left side. :smallbiggrin:
Ah. I thought you were saying that the panel had simply been flipped.

[AKA_Bait]

"Where did Haley's 5th arrow go?" Excellent comic, I feel like the pacing and the writing has just been superb.

Tarquin caught 2, 2 hit Miron, and one got "dinked" from Miron. Am I missing something?

[Lombard]

"Where did Haley's 5th arrow go?"

Tarquin caught two, one in Miron's chest, one in Miron's leg, one bounced off Miron's head.

edit ss'd :roy:

[Sir_Leorik]

I still think that Tarquin's crew are second edition.

Snatch Arrows is a 3rd Edition feat. Greater Dispel Magic is a 3rd Edition spell. Team Tarquin updated to the new editions, but they got certain goodies houseruled into the game that break the rules. Some of these goodies may date as far back as 1985, since Tarquin makes references to Unearthed Arcana. But the upsides of updating beat the downsides.

Tarquin gets more hit points as a 20 the level 3.X Fighter than as a 20th level 1E/2E Fighter. He gets access to Skill Points, Feats, Fighter Bonus Feats, and Prestige Classes, while losing access to Weapon Proficiencies, Non-Weapon Proficiencies and Kits.

Miron gets more hit points as a 3.X 20th level Arcane caster than a 20th level 1E/2E Magic-User. In 3.X Miron gets to be either a Wizard or a Sorcerer, with different benefits and drawbacks to both, but either way he gets more spells per day, Skill Points, Feats and access to Full Caster Prestige Classes. As a 3.5 Wizard, Miron gets Scribe Scroll, Wizard Bonus Feats, and the ability to add as many spells as his Spellcraft checks (and time and money) allow vs. a limited number of spells in a spellbook based on a chart in the 1E/2E PHB. As a Sorcerer, Miron would know fewer spells than a Wizard of his level, but that number would probably be about the same as a 1E/2E of his level, he wouldn't need a spellbook and could cast spells spontaneously.

Laurin gets a lower hit die as a 3.5 Psion than a 2E Psionicist, but she would still have a higher hit point total, since she gets 20 hit dice vs. 10. She would get more Powers known in 3.5 vs. Devotions and Sciences known in 2E. She would be able to regain all of her Power Points after an 8 hour rest, vs. needing days of rest to regain her Psionic Strength Points in 2E. She would able to Augment powers she manifests, which makes up for the lower number of Powers known vs. a 3.5 Wizard's spells in a spellbook, and she gets all the cool stuff in the Expanded Psionics Handbook that were undreamed of in PHBR5: Complete Psionics Handbook.

So why exactly wouldn't they upgrade to 3.5? Especially when we already know that Malack did?

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Wait, how can Tarquin catch two arrows at the same time?

Surely, one of his hands is non-dominant.

And don't say he has John Stockton-level skills; ain't nobody has John Stockton-level skills.

[Knight.Anon]

Durkon could mist in and grapple, drain one of the casters.

Could Tarquin's arrow snatching be a magic item instead of a feat?

Miron's brown spell aura worries me what kind of character would have that?

I went back and checked the old strips and it is a little bit darker than it was before, so the day is getting close to being over.

[Cerlis]

Everything is better with portals.

[zimmerwald1915]

Miron's brown spell aura worries me what kind of character would have that?
A number of the hobgoblin browncloaks have brown dweomers.

[Sir_Leorik]

And level 7 slots. And level 8 slots. And level 9 slots.

That's true, but I'm trying not to confuse any of the newbies with this stuff. :smallwink:

[zimmerwald1915]

That's true, but I'm trying not to confuse any of the newbies with this stuff. :smallwink:
From confusion springs learning. :smallsmile:

[Sir_Leorik]

Durkon could mist in and grapple, drain one of the casters.

Could Tarquin's arrow snatching be a magic item instead of a feat?

Miron's brown spell aura worries me what kind of character would have that?

I went back and checked the old strips and it is a little bit darker than it was before, so the day is getting close to being over.


A number of the hobgoblin browncloaks have brown dweomers.

The spell auras are color-coded for your convenience, so you know who's casting which spell.

[F.Harr]

Yeah, V's just going to flatten everyone. Wizards are overpowered.

On a non-sarcastic note: AAAAAA! Laurien's really EARNING her favor. Yikes! Dimentional ancher everyone? Eh, it probably won't work.

[Breccia]

From confusion springs learning.

Variable-speed corn muffins?

[Sir_Leorik]

From confusion springs learning. :smallsmile:

In my experience that's only true when they ask a question. And remember the answer on the test.

(The test in this case being the game itself, and a failing grade is a TPK.)

[Shale]

Dimentional ancher everyone? Eh, it probably won't work.

There's no save against it, it requires only a ranged touch attack (on a Huge/Colossal creature) and at the very least it would force Miron to waste more Dispel castings. If timed properly it would also lead to more of Wile E. Coyote's laws of physics.

Sounds like a great idea to me.

[Cerlis]

Any explanation what the spell/power was that was cast on Haley?

Something psionic.

Seriously

There are like... a few score powers in psionics that attack a person's mind.

------------------------
Also Haley's Boots of Speed are called thus because of their Haste...

Mirion was scolded for "not casting" before.

Teleport is only a 5th lvl spell, This power is weaker than that, basically a suped up version of dimension door. Probably a 4th lvl power. (or 5th lvl if you trade in more area for higher lvl)

So casting 3 of em is not "wasting" anything.

Also she cast a power (portal) then cast another power that as far as we can tell completely disabled the most prominent physical member of the team, then the Order was out of most power ranged...

So why wouldn't she close the distance (you know, instead of cast at something that isnt there)?

[Sir_Leorik]

Something psionic.

Seriously

There are like... a few score powers in psionics that attack a person's mind.

------------------------
Also Haley's Boots of Speed are called thus because of their Haste...

Mirion was scolded for "not casting" before.

Teleport is only a 5th lvl spell, This power is weaker than that, basically a suped up version of dimension door. Probably a 4th lvl power. (or 5th lvl if you trade in more area for higher lvl)

So casting 3 of em is not "wasting" anything.

Wormhole isn't a 3rd Edition Psionic Power. It's a 2E Psionic Science that Laurin has mysteriously been allowed to keep using in 3E form. It also allows her to transport entire armies, which could be an Augmented use of the Power, or not. Since we don't know the level or game mechanics of Wormhole, there's no point in debating what the best way to counter it is. Suffice to say that Wormhole is forcing the Order into a confrontation they don't want, but that Tarquin does. So it's basically Railroading. :smallamused:

[Silva Stormrage]

My guess on the power that hit Haley would be Ego Whip. Its a good somewhat well known power (For people who play 3.5 and know psionics anyway) that would daze Haley without dealing any visible damage. We can't see if she is unconscious or not right now.

Other powers from the SRD that target the mind that don't have visible damage. (Assuming psychic damage from powers like mindthrust aren't visible)

Decerebrate: I hope not but Haley would have a bit longer to live assuming Durkon could just use greater restoration on her.
Psionic Blast: I think the blast would it V too.
Mental Disruption: Somewhat weak and not really threatening.
Microcosm: Unlikely due to Haley still being at full hit points. If Laurin can one shot Haley with that she can probably one shot V, Belkar, and Elan with it as well which would be incredibly problematic for the OOTS.

Also my bet is on Mirmon being a sorcerer

[zimmerwald1915]

Teleport is only a 5th lvl spell, This power is weaker than that, basically a suped up version of dimension door. Probably a 4th lvl power. (or 5th lvl if you trade in more area for higher lvl)
Wormhole can transport hundreds of people hundreds of miles in a single manifesting. It is comparable to the level 9 arcane spells teleportation circle, gate and wish, and the level 9 divine spells miracle and gate as far as what it is able to accomplish. That Laurin is using it now as an arcane caster might use dimension door doesn't mean it's not a potent and high-level power. It means Laurin is underutilizing it the same way just about every arcane and divine caster in The Order of the Stick underutilizes their powers, and for pretty much the same reasons.

[Sir_Leorik]

Wormhole can transport hundreds of people hundreds of miles in a single manifesting. It is comparable to the level 9 arcane spells teleportation circle and wish, and the level 9 divine spell miracle as far as what it is able to accomplish. That Laurin is using it now as an arcane caster might use dimension door doesn't mean it's not a potent and high-level power. It means Laurin is underutilizing it the same way just about every arcane and divine caster in The Order of the Stick underutilizes their powers.

Or Wormhole can be augmented to allow it to transport armies hundreds of miles, but unaugmented it only transports a dozen or so targets a lesser distance.

[talkamancer]

Only if a party with two caster in it decided not buffing their mount was a good idea. Which is possible, but unlikely.

Didn't miron cast greater dispel magic on it ?

[AKA_Bait]

So why exactly wouldn't they upgrade to 3.5? Especially when we already know that Malack did?

Also, I don't think characters have a choice about upgrading when the world changes edition. The world upgrades, they go with it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)

[Shale]

Given Tarquin's love of magic items, any buffs on the triceratops are more likely to come from the harness than offscreen spellcasting (and when would that casting have happened, anyway? We see everything they do between getting onto the dino and appearing in front of the Order).

[zimmerwald1915]

Or Wormhole can be augmented to allow it to transport armies hundreds of miles, but unaugmented it only transports a dozen or so targets a lesser distance.
Well yes, being augmentable is a property of all psionic powers.

[Jolly Giant]

Yeah, a +4 to AC would account for stopping only one arrow, that's nice but hardly impressive armor, and the sort of thing a high-level caster would have on 7x24. Wake up in the morning, cast Shield.

Shield is one of the standard defensive spells of wizards and sorcerers, especially since it's a level 1 spell. It's weakness is that it only lasts for 1 minute per casterlevel, so you can't realistically have it on 24/7.

[chronoreverse]

Shield is one of the standard defensive spells of wizards and sorcerers, especially since it's a level 1 spell. It's weakness is that it only lasts for 1 minute per casterlevel, so you can't realistically have it on 24/7.

You could use Persist Spell although I'm not sure it's worth it.

[Sir_Leorik]

Also, I don't think characters have a choice about upgrading when the world changes edition. The world upgrades, they go with it. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html)

Or they stay behind, as more and more souls convert and adapt to the new Edition Dimension, till there's no one around to quest with! (http://www.giantitp.com/GIPOTSDr.html)

Of course that's for PC classes. Monsters don't get a choice; some of them are never upgraded by WotC, and languish without new stats. But they have to go somewhere (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0055.html), even if it's only to Cliffport for brunch (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0444.html). :smallbiggrin:

[Lordchoculla]

Hey, look at Durkon in the last panel. It seems like he's casting something...Nice detail!

Durkon? Casting something? Can't see that, really. What precisely can you see that I cannot? Not denying you are right, but it escapes my sight entirely. Please elaborate.

[King of Nowhere]

It's intersting to see the face of laurin. she's smiling until the point where myron is wounded, then she becomes angry. Likely she only cares for her friends and their wereabouts, so she only became emotionally engaged in this fight the moment on of them took some arrows.

[St Fan]

I gotta say, the blue caster (Miron?) being annoyed at being shot in the heart is pretty much my favorite part of this. Just... "Ow. Dangit."

The heart isn't positioned there. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeartInTheWrongPlace)

[zimmerwald1915]

The heart isn't positioned there. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeartInTheWrongPlace)
Of course it isn't. It's in the leg. Where Miron was shot.

[Knight.Anon]

Yeah, Tarquin's party couldn't be 2e now because the world has moved on. I suppose they were 2e at one time, 2.5, 3.0, and finally 3.5. I suppose they were converted the same way the order was when the world went 3.5. It wouldn't put it past Team Tarquin to try to exploit the hell out of it and get the best of both worlds.

It bothers me that Tarquin has way more skills than he should and, the Laurins's portal power seems to overpowered, but it does make the strip more interesting. I hate to see a uber-party come in and curbstomp the Order. So far it looks like they are being toyed with.

[eilandesq]

Disintigrate is a lousy idea, it won't scratch the paint on the Triceratops.



Yep, even if the triceratops managed to fail its +19 Fort Save vs. the disintegrate (probably only 20-25% likely given the spell's probable DC for V's estimated INT), it would only lose a bit over half its HP on average. Of course, using it to dig a pit right in the path of the charging critter might have worked well--hard to throw up a wormhole fast enough to avoid that.

[tomandtish]

... Tarquin just caught two arrows ... so far as I know, you can't do that pre-Epic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection). Is this finally confirmation that he's epic? And has a whopping 25 Dex?


Tarquin catching 2 arrows at once while riding a dinosaur? Damn, that guy continues to be double plus epic.


Could Tarquin's arrow snatching be a magic item instead of a feat?



Yes it could. Gloves of Arrow Snaring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#glovesofArrowSnaring)allow you to do this twice a day. Nothing in the description says the twice can't be at the same time.

So Tarquin snatching two arrows at the same time is not proof that he is epic level. (Not saying he isn't, just saying that this isn't proof since it can be duplicated by non-epic means).

[zimmerwald1915]

Yes it could. Gloves of Arrow Snaring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#glovesofArrowSnaring)allow you to do this twice a day. Nothing in the description says the twice can't be at the same time.

So Tarquin snatching two arrows at the same time is not proof that he is epic level. (Not saying he isn't, just saying that this isn't proof since it can be duplicated by non-epic means).
Does he have multiple pairs, then? Because he's caught four arrows so far today: one on the roof of the pyramid, one in the pyramid, and two now.

[Shale]

He's already caught arrows today, though. And the gloves only let you act as if you have the feat - the feat specifies once per round.

[AKA_Bait]

Yes it could. Gloves of Arrow Snaring (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#glovesofArrowSnaring)allow you to do this twice a day. Nothing in the description says the twice can't be at the same time.

So Tarquin snatching two arrows at the same time is not proof that he is epic level. (Not saying he isn't, just saying that this isn't proof since it can be duplicated by non-epic means).

I don't think that you are interpreting the Gloves of Arrow Snaring correctly. The gloves give the wearer the ability to act as if they have the Snatch Arrows feat 2x per day. However, Snatch Arrows is limited by its prerequisite feat on the skill chain, Deflect Arrows. Deflect Arrows can only be used once per round. In other words, although the gloves allow you to snatch an arrow as if you had the feat twice per day, they cannot let you snatch two in the same round, as Tarquin is doing here.

[Person_Man]

So Miron's a full caster as well?

That's . . . very bad for the Order.

In theory he could be a half-caster or gish of some kind. It wouldn't be that hard to get Greater Dispel Magic by ECL 15-20ish from multiple different builds.

Having said that, it would make sense for him to be a Wizard or something close to it, since he's not wearing any armor, and their evil party already has a Fighter/Tarquin, Psion/Laurin, Rogue/Catgirl, Cleric/Malak, plus whatever shoulder pad guy is.

[Klytus]

Interesting that the arrow aimed at his head didn't land; some kind of magic item? I'm pretty sure that there's only one attack roll made for all of the arrows, so it's not like one arrow didn't pass his AC--but then again, I don't know for sure how 3e Manyshot works.


I'm guessing this is the visual FX of Fortification in action. In the context of the game, a Critical Hit is usually portrayed as a head-shot, or something equally gruesome. Ergo, a head-shot being deflected means an item of Fortification turned a Crit into a simple hit.

[Menarker]

Funny that while Haley normally beats her "flying skanks" opponents (which make up the majority of everyone she fights as she lampshaded), when she BECOMES one, she loses just as easily. =P

[Breccia]

I'm guessing this is the visual FX of Fortification in action. In the context of the game, a Critical Hit is usually portrayed as a head-shot, or something equally gruesome. Ergo, a head-shot being deflected means an item of Fortification turned a Crit into a simple hit.

I, for one, didn't associate "dink" with a normal hit. Belkar's been shot in the head with a "dink" and didn't even flinch. But it's impossible to tell: he's reeling from being shot several times, the third shot might or might not add physical impact but we can't be sure.

[Tyrrell]

Here's my guess as to how the party escapes. It is a guess about how the plot develops, I can't see a way to make it happen from a practical perspective.
Elan finds a way to ensure that he dies with Roy. If Roy dies Elan dies. This not only makes killing Roy counterproductive to Tarquin it also makes Elan the hero.

[Yoyoyo]

I don't think that you are interpreting the Gloves of Arrow Snaring correctly. The gloves give the wearer the ability to act as if they have the Snatch Arrows feat 2x per day. However, Snatch Arrows is limited by its prerequisite feat on the skill chain, Deflect Arrows. Deflect Arrows can only be used once per round. In other words, although the gloves allow you to snatch an arrow as if you had the feat twice per day, they cannot let you snatch two in the same round, as Tarquin is doing here.

So does that mean multiple pairs of gloves? Or were his earlier catches his regular skill feat? Or is Tarquin cheating? I'm confused.

And I thought the Order would have been in trouble to fight RC and Xykon. Team Tarquin looks even more powerful.

[konradknox]

He'd catch the 3rd one in his teeth. He is, after all, the Magnificent Tarquin.

This being a family friendly strip you don't want to know how he stops a fourth one.

The fourth and fifth ones he catches under his armpits, the sixth one he catches with the bend of his knee.

It's the SEVENTH one we don't tell kids about. :smallbiggrin:

[Living Oxymoron]

Roy shouldn't command Durkon to release Spiky (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0923.html). He would help a lot now.

It is the fourth Wormhole that Laurin casts until now and the last one was a cunning use of it... she is really dangerous. :smalleek:

Miron is able to cast Greater Dispel Magic, which is a 6th level spell for sorcerers/wizards. I'm still placing my bets that he is a Factotum because he did cast a spell within the limits of this class (max. 7th level sor/wiz spells). If he casts a spell of a superior level without the help of magic items, then I would say he is a Sorcerer or some other class.

That thing of magic items reminds me that he is able to use wands (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0757.html) and Haley got a lot of wands from Zz'dtri's body (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0910.html)... I can see a Harry Potter duel coming... :smallbiggrin:

I don't know if he can assume Tarquin is Epic just because he snatched two arrows... yeah, I know that the normal rules of Deflect Arrows state that you can do that only once per round, but this is Mr. Burlew's comics and he can say that with two hands free one can deflect two missiles. So, unless Haley or someone shots three or more projectiles against him, I don't think we could tell anything about this. (also, the prerequisite is quite restrict: dex 25 is not something any character could have, even an epic level one)

About Miron again, it would be very bad if he used Greater Dispel Magic on Durkon... I don't think he is able to use that Protection from Daylight spell since he didn't research the spell like his former master. Actually, it's unlikely that Durkon is able to do anything with that staff without knowing what it is capable of doing.

Finally, IMO, the Order is screwed.

[zimmerwald1915]

(also, the prerequisite is quite restrict: dex 25 is not something any character could have, even an epic level one)
25 Dex is easily within the reach of an Epic character. 18 base + 5 from levels + 6 enhancement + 5 inherent = 34.

But Tarquin has probably not put everything he possibly can into Dex. Something more reasonable might look like 14 base + 6 enhancement + 5 inherent = 25. Incidentally, the enhancement item for Dex goes on the Hands slot, so boosting Dex in order to get Epic Snatch Arrows is mutually exclusive from using gloves of arrow snatching unless Tarquin put the enhancement bonus on a non-standard item like Elan did with his belt.

[AKA_Bait]

I don't know if he can assume Tarquin is Epic just because he snatched two arrows... yeah, I know that the normal rules of Deflect Arrows state that you can do that only once per round, but this is Mr. Burlew's comics and he can say that with two hands free one can deflect two missiles. So, unless Haley or someone shots three or more projectiles against him, I don't think we could tell anything about this. (also, the prerequisite is quite restrict: dex 25 is not something any character could have, even an epic level one)

Not saying this proves epic level, just saying that the gloves don't do the trick under RAW. Absent an "oops/who cares?" from the Giant all we have to go on is the evidence we see in panel. "The Giant can change/ignore the rules if he wants" is certainly true but, absent a comment from him, not a useful argument as it could apply to literally any action taken in the comic.


Actually, it's unlikely that Durkon is able to do anything with that staff without knowing what it is capable of doing.

Durkon knows that the spell is in the staff.

[Sir_Leorik]

Yeah, Tarquin's party couldn't be 2e now because the world has moved on. I suppose they were 2e at one time, 2.5, 3.0, and finally 3.5.

There was no "2.5E"; it's a common mistake made by people who confuse the Player's Options splatbooks for actual rules changes. In practice the PO series was as optional as any other 2E splatbook from the PHBR series, the Historical Reference series, or any of the others. While many of the rules in Player's Option: Combat & Tactics laid the groundwork for the 3.0 combat system, it and Player's Option: Skills & Powers and Player's Option: Spells & Magic were just splatbooks. The same year those three were released (1995) TSR released a new imprint of the 2E PHB, DMG and Monstrous Manual, containing eratta to all three, but the rules remained unchanged, unlike in the 3.5 upgrade.

The irony is that in hindsight, maybe if TSR had actually launched a new edition in 1995 they might not have gone bankrupt. Of course they would have needed to get Lorraine to stop wasting the company's money on trivial acquisitions, like paying a licensing fee to her family for the right to publish poorly selling "Buck Rogers" games. :smallbiggrin:


I suppose they were converted the same way the order was when the world went 3.5. It wouldn't put it past Team Tarquin to try to exploit the hell out of it and get the best of both worlds.

Technically, Tarquin and Co. were around since at least 1E, since he remembers the release of Unearthed Arcana back in 1985. So he and his team have been through five rules sets: first in 1E; second when UA released; third when 2E launched; fourth when 3.0 released, and fifth when 3.5 released. By contrast, the Order has been through only two rules sets. Some characters, like Xykon and the Order of the Scribble, did not come into existence until 3.0 launched, and then existed retroactively into the past. (Xykon, a Sorcerer, couldn't exist until the 3.0 rules set launched. Neither could Lirian, a Neutral Good Elf Druid, Kraagor, a Dwarf Barbarian or Girard Draketooth, a Chaotic Neutral Human Ranger/Sorcerer)


It bothers me that Tarquin has way more skills than he should and, the Laurins's portal power seems to overpowered, but it does make the strip more interesting. I hate to see a uber-party come in and curbstomp the Order. So far it looks like they are being toyed with.

Team Tarquin is at least 20th level, if not Epic Level. Malack's Racial Hit Dice and hefty Level Adjustment kept his Class level lower, but his ECL would probably be 21+.


So does that mean multiple pairs of gloves? Or were his earlier catches his regular skill feat? Or is Tarquin cheating? I'm confused.

Based on the feats in the SRD, Tarquin can't do that, but he may have another feat or a PrC ability that is non-Core, that allows him to, provided both his hands are free.

[sengmeng]

Of course, but why not prismatic spray the whole bunch, simply disintegrate the dinosaur, force cage it, or whatever else in order to actually eliminate it from the pursuit? Looked like she was saving spells slots or something..

Or buying time with a low level spell that Miron had to address and therefore waste his action.

[Menas]

I like both explanations; V is trying not to use flashy magic, and Hold Monster keeps the Triceratops parked until the magic is dispelled. The fact that Miron could do so in the same round merely means that Miron's action was wasted on getting the Triceratops moving again, rather than casting a high level spell. In addition, Triceratops (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#triceratops) have a Will save of only +6, while their Fort Save is +19. Any spell that requires a Will save is a much better choice than Disintegrate. :smallamused:

And a Reflex save for the Triceratops (using this template) would be +9, so spells requiring a Reflex save wouldn't necessarily be a bad choice either.



Disintegrate does ~ 30d6 for a 15th level caster, or 105 pts. A standard triceratops has about 196. I'm willing to wager a shiny new nickle that Tarquin's mount is a little (or a lot) better than standard.


Has it been established that this is indeed Tarquin's mount or just some mount he commandeered from the army?


Durkon could mist in and grapple, drain one of the casters.


If they have to close for combat I think this would be a great idea but the rest of the party would need to cover Durkon while this is going on and if the caster already has protection against drain it would need to be dispelled.


Didn't miron cast greater dispel magic on it ?

This is a great point, if OotS chooses to attack TT's mount, there's no longer a reason to believe it has any protection spells on it if it did previously.


Given Tarquin's love of magic items, any buffs on the triceratops are more likely to come from the harness...

Again, has it been established that this is Tarquin's personal mount? This would be a pretty expensive magic item to invest in otherwise. If the Triceratops does have a magic harness, it didn't help the creature against the Hold Monster spell (which means the creature is susceptible to spells that require Will saves).


Yep, even if the triceratops managed to fail its +19 Fort Save vs. the disintegrate (probably only 20-25% likely given the spell's probable DC for V's estimated INT), it would only lose a bit over half its HP on average. Of course, using it to dig a pit right in the path of the charging critter might have worked well--hard to throw up a wormhole fast enough to avoid that.

Attacking the ground which has no saves to obstruct the path directly in front of a charging triceratops? Interesting idea.

[JT]

Finally, IMO, the Order is screwed.

Well, we can be reasonably confident that they will emerge at least successfully and relatively intact, if not actually victorious. I have serious doubts that any member of the Order will be killed in this fight, with that possible exception of Belkar. (Personally, I doubt he will die now, but it's possible that he could.)

There are two more books after this one is completed. There is an upcoming confrontation with Team Evil. There is an upcoming "something" with the Snarl, or whatever is actually on the other side of the rifts. And the Order of the Stick is the ensemble cast who will be there.


I agree that the Order appears to be screwed. I trust that Rich has a reasonable way for them to survive this encounter, in order that the story may continue.

[Torvaun]

... Tarquin just caught two arrows ... so far as I know, you can't do that pre-Epic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection). Is this finally confirmation that he's epic? And has a whopping 25 Dex?

Or he's wearing Gloves of Arrow Snaring, which function twice per day.

[zimmerwald1915]

Or he's wearing Gloves of Arrow Snaring, which function twice per day.
As has been explained upthread (or perhaps in a different but similar thread, they all kind of blend together after a while), gloves of arrow snatching allow the wearer to catch one arrow per round. So either Tarquin is doing something else, or the Giant has decided to houserule how Snatch Arrows (the feat gloves of arrow snatching replicate) works. The theory that Tarquin is using gloves of arrow snatching also requires that he have at least two pairs on his person, since they only work twice per day, and he's caught four arrows so far.

[Menas]

Well, we can be reasonably confident that they will emerge at least successfully and relatively intact, if not actually victorious. I have serious doubts that any member of the Order will be killed in this fight, with that possible exception of Belkar. (Personally, I doubt he will die now, but it's possible that he could.)

There are two more books after this one is completed. There is an upcoming confrontation with Team Evil. There is an upcoming "something" with the Snarl, or whatever is actually on the other side of the rifts. And the Order of the Stick is the ensemble cast who will be there.

I agree that the Order appears to be screwed. I trust that Rich has a reasonable way for them to survive this encounter, in order that the story may continue.

Really good points imo. It 'appears' that the OotS is screwed or in trouble at the very least, which creates good dramatic tension in the story. But we also expect the story to continue for a good while to a conclusion where the OotS faces off against Xykon and co. without losing our beloved main characters in the meantime. So I expect Rich has some well-written story twists in our near future. Plus, it's awesome to see your heroes overcome adversity and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.


Or he's wearing Gloves of Arrow Snaring, which function twice per day.

Or he has some home-brewed magic item that does something similar for a similar amount of attempts.

Or what zimmerwald just said:


As has been explained upthread (or perhaps in a different but similar thread, they all kind of blend together after a while), gloves of arrow snatching allow the wearer to catch one arrow per round. So either Tarquin is doing something else, or the Giant has decided to houserule how Snatch Arrows (the feat gloves of arrow snatching replicate) works. The theory that Tarquin is using gloves of arrow snatching also requires that he have at least two pairs on his person, since they only work twice per day, and he's caught four arrows so far.

[Killer Angel]

Finally, IMO, the Order is screwed.

Why "finally"? It seems you would be satisfied... :smallconfused:

[Porthos]

The problem I have with the running idea of either Roy or Elan dying to get out of this jam is two fold. One, unless it's for the sake of a gag, Rich has been trying to get away from the Death is Cheap idea that runs rampant throughout D&D. If either Roy or Elan die, I tend to think it will have long lasting consequences.

But even if Roy or Elan die here to get the Wrath of Tarquin off their back, Tarquin knows just how plentiful resurrection magic is. It'll be a hard sell to him to convince him that they won't resurrect Elan unless he gives up the chase.

I'm not saying it will be an impossible sell. But it's gonna have to be set up in such a way that Tarquin becomes convinced that Elan will A) only come back to life if, say, Durkon calls him back and B) Tarquin can't force Durkon to cast it without retreating.

Hmmmm.....

Could work. But it's a very tight needle to thread.

I think I'll spoil this, given the level of detail:

Of the two, it has to be Elan. If Roy dies here, Laurin does the Disintegrate/Gust of Wind combo that Rich loves to play.

Bye bye Roy for the story.

If it is Elan, then we have a dramatic Test of Wills to see who blinks first.

Tarquin would, understandably, want Elan back at all costs. Tarquin needs Elan alive. It's about his legacy and all that.

If Team OotS refuses to raise him, Tarquin then threatens to destroy Team OotS and get a random Cleric to raise him himself.

Durkon then counters that Elan has told him that he'll only come back to life if Durkon calls for him.

Tarquin then counters that he'll just force Durkon to do it.

Durkon then counters that he can't be mind controlled anymore. You know, vampire.

Tarquin then counters that he'll kill all of Durkon's teammates if he doesn't agree.

Durkon then says, "Go ahead. I'll just raise them tomorrow." Or maybe he'll imply that now that he's evil he doesn't care whether or not they die <<Ooooo. Is Durkon bluffing or not? FUTURE PLOT POINT>>. Or perhaps he'll say that if he kills all of the party, then Durkon will never do what Tarquin wants. It'll be their sacrifice and he won't ignore it. <<Ooooo. Is Durkon less evil than is thought? FUTURE PLOT POINT>>

Tarquin then counters that they need Elan to deal with this Zlyaphone character who is threatening the world or something.

Haley then counters that they'll just be able find a random Bard at the next tavern they stay at. That's how these stories work, isn't it?

Tarquin then counters that you obviously love Elan too much to see him dead.

Haley then counters that she loves Elan enough not to reject his sacrifice.

Tarquin then counters that there is no way she'll actually go through with it.

Haley then counters "Why not? I'm lower class scum, aren't I? That's what someone of my stock would do." <<MAXED OUT BLUFF FTW!>>

Tarquin is now near checkmate. He desperately seeks an out, but doesn't see it. He needs to kill Team OotS, but he needs to bring Elan back to life. But the board is set so the only winning move he has is to disengage and play another day.

It'll be an exceedingly tough trap to spring. And one that would require everything to play out just right. Not just that, but it is an exceedingly high stakes bluff. And it'll all come down to: Does Tarquin want Elan alive so he can fulfill his destiny more than he wants him to fulfill his destiny the right way.

It works on one level because it brings MANY strings together. Tarquin's own faith in narrative tropes. The pre-established conversation between Elan and Durkon (NOTE: That conversation didn't have to be about THIS plan - just that Elan and Durkon were seen conspiring at various points). The fact that it was shown earlier that dead people won't come back if they don't want to. And the antipathy between Tarquin and Haley. And since it is tying up enough narrative strings, Rich might decide that is worth overlooking the Death is Cheap dodge of D&D. In fact, he'd be using that very complaint as a weapon against Tarquin.

The more I think about this, the more I actually can see it happening. Which is a bit of a surprise since at the beginning of this post I was dead set against the idea. It's a The Only Winning Move Is Not To Play gambit with huge stakes. Elan removes himself from the board and dares Tarquin to act against his nature.

But, as I said at the top, this'll be an EXCEEDINGLY tough needle to thread. And therefore perhaps not the route Rich chooses to take.

On the plus side, this does neatly solve the idea of how Team OotS can beat an (near) Epic Level party. They do it not by battle tactics and might but by using their opponents own weakness against them

And it lets Tarquin fans rejoice because it keeps him around as a potential enemy. :smalltongue: Then again if Rich wants to off Tarquin, that might be the very reason he doesn't do it. :smallwink:

Still.... Maybe. I can see the path at least, even if it isn't taken.

[Shale]

Again, has it been established that this is Tarquin's personal mount? This would be a pretty expensive magic item to invest in otherwise.

If he had the time and resources to get that entire regiment ready to march, arrange the transportation with Laurin, etc., I don't see why we should draw that line at "arranged for his preferred mount to be deployed too," or "got an enchanted harness from the armory before heading out."

[Ridureyu]

They were waaaaay more "screwed" in the Battle of Azure City.

And Roy's already died in a big fight once. Reusing that would be silly. Plus, we had Durkon vampirized - there's a possibility that Belkar might buy it, but that's probably it.

[eilandesq]

25 Dex is easily within the reach of an Epic character. 18 base + 5 from levels + 6 enhancement + 5 inherent = 34.

But Tarquin has probably not put everything he possibly can into Dex. Something more reasonable might look like 14 base + 6 enhancement + 5 inherent = 25. Incidentally, the enhancement item for Dex goes on the Hands slot, so boosting Dex in order to get Epic Snatch Arrows is mutually exclusive from using gloves of arrow snatching unless Tarquin put the enhancement bonus on a non-standard item like Elan did with his belt.

Tarquin has been seen to not sweat overspending on items much, so I would expect for him to have one of those belts that enhances all three physical stats to +6, or even paying an additional premium to put an items that does the same thing elsewhere on his body.

[Ramien]

I think Roy's going to do something in the next strip just based on the last panel. Belkar's looking suprised, Elan's looking scared, and Roy's... looking very angry/determined.

I don't think Durkon's casting anything at the moment - that's just the background around his head.

[Ridureyu]

I agree, I think we had a few too many fights and its beginning to feel a bit odious. The feeling of "oh no will the Order live?!" has been going on for a while, and its not just because of release rate.

It's still good, and all this stuff has to happen, it just doesn't feel that good.


I think the main issue is that the pacing per strip feels like it has slowed down (has it really, or is this just perception?). Before in epic battles, once the action started, things MOVED, even if it took large strips - so even if the fight took real-life months, stuff happened. Lately, it's been like we see one move on a chess board every week.

[holywhippet]

... Tarquin just caught two arrows ... so far as I know, you can't do that pre-Epic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#infiniteDeflection). Is this finally confirmation that he's epic? And has a whopping 25 Dex?

My guess would be yes. Inifinite Deflection + Snatch Arrows. I'd guess the order would have to have levels in the middle teens by now so a veteran adventurer like Tarquin would likely be epic level in comparison. Considering how easily he has fended everyone off when fighting them he'd need a really large advantage like epic levels and the equipment and enhancements that come with it. 25 DEX would be quite possible, a manual of Quickness of Action +5 could get him most of the way there depending on his starting dex score.

[rodneyAnonymous]

Has it been established that this is indeed Tarquin's mount or just some mount he commandeered from the army?

He is riding it when we first see the army. Perhaps he commandeered it before they left, but it's his mount for today at least.

[Iruka]

I like where this is going. :smallbiggrin:

[Menas]

If he had the time and resources to get that entire regiment ready to march, arrange the transportation with Laurin, etc., I don't see why we should draw that line at "arranged for his preferred mount to be deployed too," or "got an enchanted harness from the armory before heading out."

I'm not saying the line should be drawn there or that what you're saying is impossible.

But unless Tarquin spends a lot of time with the military himself, I'm not sure how much money he'd want to spend on stuff like this unless he's swimming in it. Tarquin may just use his army conventionally and not invest any extra time/money on their equipment apart from standard fare. If something comes along that the army can't handle because of level/magic/whatever, Tarquin could always deal with the threat personally (like he is now).

If that's the case, then I'd expect something like a magical harness to be improbable. However, if Tarquin is indeed the kind of dictator where he leads his evil army into battle to conquer other empires, then I wouldn't think what you're saying is improbable at all. From the backstory we've seen so far, however, that doesn't seem to be the case (Tarquin and his company seem to operate discreetly behind the scenes). This is the first part of the story where we've ever seen him very involved with the army or riding a military mount.


He is riding it when we first see the army. Perhaps he commandeered it before they left, but it's his mount for today at least.

It sounds like you're saying it's not conclusive whether or not this is Tarquin's personal mount at this point. Which I agree with, I haven't seen anything to indicate strongly one way or the other at this point.

[Shale]

Given that Tarquin has extra Rings of Regeneration, I would indeed characterize him as "swimming in it."

Also, given that he's officially the general of the country, it would be weird for him not to be involved in warmaking. What's more suspicious - a general who leads the army to victory in battle and is celebrated and gains political power for it, or a general who never does anything related to battle but seems to have a ton of control over the civil government anyway?

[zimmerwald1915]

Given that Tarquin has extra Rings of Regeneration, I would indeed characterize him as "swimming in it."
To be fair, one of those was a birthday gift.

EDIT: never mind, I was thinking of the ring of true seeing :smallredface:

[Menas]

Given that Tarquin has extra Rings of Regeneration, I would indeed characterize him as "swimming in it."

That's fine, we can agree to disagree. Even if Tarquin is as rich as you suggest that doesn't mean he's going to spend it on the army rather than himself (still don't know if this mount was his before he stole it from the army or not).

If I were in the fight right now I'd be optimistic that the triceratops didn't have this kind of equipment and gear my initial attacks to include that assumption. 'Hold Monster' worked just fine. I'm betting other will or reflex save attacks from the OotS will work just fine also, if they decide to go that way.

[Torvaun]

PredictionThe OotS will approach TPK, and Belkar will request vampirism from Durkon to be able to help. We've seen two spells from that staff, Protection from Daylight, and the one to cause a vampire to rise immediately. And Belkar is going to take his last breath, ever, pretty soon, which doesn't mean that he's going to stop helping.

[Ramien]

I'm not saying the line should be drawn there or that what you're saying is impossible.

But unless Tarquin spends a lot of time with the military himself, I'm not sure how much money he'd want to spend on stuff like this unless he's swimming in it. Tarquin may just use his army conventionally and not invest any extra time/money on their equipment apart from standard fare. If something comes along that the army can't handle because of level/magic/whatever, Tarquin could always deal with the threat personally (like he is now).

If that's the case, then I'd expect something like a magical harness to be improbable. However, if Tarquin is indeed the kind of dictator where he leads his evil army into battle to conquer other empires, then I wouldn't think what you're saying is improbable at all. From the backstory we've seen so far, however, that doesn't seem to be the case (Tarquin and his company seem to operate discreetly behind the scenes). This is the first part of the story where we've ever seen him very involved with the army or riding a military mount.



It sounds like you're saying it's not conclusive whether or not this is Tarquin's personal mount at this point. Which I agree with, I haven't seen anything to indicate strongly one way or the other at this point.

You do realize that Tarquin is the General of the Army, right? He's the war leader for the entire Empire, not the actual dictator (in public, anyways). We've also seen plenty of flashback panels of him leading the army or mentions of him conquering a territory. He might not always be on the field, but he's on it often enough to make having his own personal mount very likely, preferably one that won't get routinely shot out from underneath him.

[Menas]

You do realize that Tarquin is the General of the Army, right? He's the war leader for the entire Empire, not the actual dictator (in public, anyways). We've also seen plenty of flashback panels of him leading the army or mentions of him conquering a territory. He might not always be on the field, but he's on it often enough to make having his own personal mount very likely, preferably one that won't get routinely shot out from underneath him.

I do know he's the proclaimed general of the empire, and pulling the strings. As you said, he's truly the dictator but not the dictator to the general public; but no-one else knows that except himself and his party. And the other people that have discovered the truth, like OotS.

As for this part:

"We've also seen plenty of flashback panels of him leading the army or mentions of him conquering a territory"

I honestly don't remember much of that but it may be because I'm one of the more casual readers on these forums. I thought that was all done under the guise of the Empress, and am not sure of Tarquin's level of involvement. If you have a strip that conclusively proves me wrong, by all means dig it up if you wish. That would shed more light on this discussion anyway, and make it more likely that Tarquin's current mount is truly his personal mount.

[David Argall]

Well, we can be reasonably confident that they will emerge at least successfully and relatively intact, if not actually victorious.

I agree that the Order appears to be screwed. I trust that Rich has a reasonable way for them to survive this encounter, in order that the story may continue.
They will look even more screwed shortly [tho the lack of posters saying the Order is going to beat up TT brings up the chance the next strip will show the party doing rather well. However, the strip after that...]
As to how the party will win, my bet is on Elan, tho since Haley is now out of the fight, the possibility of her coming out of stun just in time to surprize/sneak attack TT is now open.

[Giggling Ghast]

My feeling is that Roy will have Belkar stop the allosaurus and jump off to face Tarquin. He'll be quickly defeated, necessitating Elan to break out his secret weapon.

[Vinsfeld]

I don't know how Psions' "spells" works. Can someone enlighten me?

I mean, number of spells per day and spell level....


EDIT: Thank you all

[Kish]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/index.htm

[Sir_Leorik]

I don't know how Psions' "spells" works. Can someone enlighten me?

I mean, number of spells per day and spell level....

Here ya go. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicRacesClassesSkillsSpells.htm)

Here's some more. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicFeats.htm)

And yet more. (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowersOverview.htm)

You do realize there's going to be a test on this, right? (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowers.htm)

:smallcool:

[RMS Oceanic]

I don't know how Psions' "spells" works. Can someone enlighten me?

I mean, number of spells per day and spell level....

Instead of Vancian Spellcasting or Spell slots in general, they get Power Points, which are like MP from Final Fantasy. The more powerful their powers, the more points they cost. They could spend it all on twenty castings of a level 9 power or 300 castings of a level 1 power. And some powers are augmentable: By spending more power points on them, you enhance their effects.

[Doug Lampert]

Welcome to Tier 1. Please enjoy your heroes feast and pay no attention to the thought bottles behind the curtain.

Huh? Psions are tier 2. They don't begin to be tier 1.

[AstralFire]

I don't know how Psions' "spells" works. Can someone enlighten me?

I mean, number of spells per day and spell level....

Think "Magic/Mana Points."

[Sir_Leorik]

Instead of Vancian Spellcasting or Spell slots in general, they get Power Points, which are like MP from Final Fantasy. The more powerful their powers, the more points they cost. They could spend it all on twenty castings of a level 9 power or 300 castings of a level 1 power. And some powers are augmentable: By spending more power points on them, you enhance their effects.


Think "Magic/Mana Points."

I liked my explanation better. :smalltongue:

[Dalek Kommander]

That's fine, we can agree to disagree. Even if Tarquin is as rich as you suggest that doesn't mean he's going to spend it on the army rather than himself (still don't know if this mount was his before he stole it from the army or not).

Before he "stole" it from his own personal army? The one is so obviously tailored to suit his every whim that they're specially trained for plot revelations? He could probably slap a saddle on any one of his troops and ride THEM as a mount if he wanted. He owns the entire army, never mind one triceratops!

[AstralFire]

I liked my explanation better. :smalltongue:

I try to go with the shortest possible explanation about D&D questions since I assume anyone asking on the comic doesn't need more than the broad strokes.

[Menas]

Before he "stole" it from his own personal army? The one is so obviously tailored to suit his every whim that they're specially trained for plot revelations? He could probably slap a saddle on any one of his troops and ride THEM as a mount if he wanted. He owns the entire army, never mind one triceratops!

Right, their loyalty is not in question. What I'm questioning is their equipment and how much he might be willing to spend on it.

It's just speculation, and the only reason I was going down this path was to try to apply this knowledge towards how much sense it makes to attack the triceratops if the OotS wanted to do so.

But whether it has a magic item on it or not, it's already shown that it's susceptible to will save attacks, so like I said, if I was fighting them and wanted to attack the triceratops I'd risk using attacks that require will or reflex saves.

[Matt620]

Soo...anyone think Miron and Laurin have a thing going on like Dorukan and Lirian? She was pissed when Haley shot him

[Coldwind]

Nice action strip, this is tense!
I believe V will save the day somehow.

[Lord Shardok]

Soo...anyone think Miron and Laurin have a thing going on like Dorukan and Lirian? She was pissed when Haley shot him

I wouldn't doubt it, but right now it seems like they're only temporary antagonists, so I don't think Rich is going to go into it in the near future.

[Shale]

Laurin was also furious at Nale when she found out he burned Malack to ash. Maybe she just....*gasp*...likes her friends?

[BrometheusJones]

i'm really getting tired of all this long (i mean LONG) climax-ey stuff since lg first showed up on pyramid's airspace.

both story-wise (the order's been fighting for their lives since then, no quarter given. i mean give the guys a break.) and reader-wise (whoa cool fight, oh this is just unfair, yay they did it, oh this is just unfair, yeah they did it again, oh COME ON, yay they did it AGAIN, ok now they're dead, repeat.)

i dunno, it's probably just me. just wanted to get it out of my chest.

Not just you.

My suspension of disbelief has waned, and full on "yeah, like that would ever happen :smallsigh:" has come in its stead.

Now I know OOTS is super heavy into cliches, but Im hoping that its not going to go down the road where its really obvious the "good guys" are completely immune to any and all lasting damage, and are obviously going to win every time due to multiple highly unlikely events all occurring in sequence which has now become common place and should be expected to happen all the time because they are apparently divinely ordained to win and the laws of everything bend or break to make that win happen.

The invulnerable hero/s story archtype is just boring to me.

[Waymage]

I think we are seeing a group of people who have enjoyed a profitable working relationship and have some degree of fondness for each other (probably due in part to their successes). Much like any number of people involved in a group dynamic like that, some individuals had deeper friendships with specific members than others.

[zimmerwald1915]

The invulnerable hero/s story archtype is just boring to me.
How are the heroes "invulnerable" when one of them is at the mercy of the powers of Hell, another has been killed and then raised as a vampire, and all six have yet to really work through the implications of said changes?

[karkus]

Goddamn Psions. :smallannoyed: That's why they shouldn't be allowed in our campaign settings.

[ti'esar]

And the main character was dead for over 200 strips, though I'll admit that coming back may offset that.

[DolGrenn]

Laurin was also furious at Nale when she found out he burned Malack to ash. Maybe she just....*gasp*...likes her friends?

Blasphemy. She works with Tarquin. :smalltongue: