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Ralcos
2013-10-21, 10:35 AM
I have an idea for a build, but don't know if I could make him a viable melee combatant. I'm not necessarily looking for optimization, just a way to make the build work.

Race: Desert Kobold
Class & Levels: Fighter 5/Soulknife 10/???

Maybe focus on Concentration and get Psionic Weapon at 1st level, to add d6's to the damage (as well as taking the time to enchant the mind blade with Psychokinetic powers, dealing another d4)? I took fighter levels to get weapon focus and specialization with the mind blade (levels are not in order of when I take them).

What do you guys think?

dysprosium
2013-10-21, 12:00 PM
Fighter 5 does nothing for you -- no bonus feats which is why people take Fighter levels. You should either proceed to 6 or jump out at 4.

Soulknife also gives you Weapon Focus (mind blade) so you don't need to take your Fighter feats for Weapon Focus, unless you plan on specializaiton in something other than your mind blade.

I would also make sure you take Soulknife first if for no other reason than getting (4 + int)*4 skill points at first level rather than (2 + int)*4 with Fighter levels.

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 12:07 PM
Fighter 5 does nothing for you -- no bonus feats which is why people take Fighter levels. You should either proceed to 6 or jump out at 4.

Soulknife also gives you Weapon Focus (mind blade) so you don't need to take your Fighter feats for Weapon Focus, unless you plan on specializaiton in something other than your mind blade.

I would also make sure you take Soulknife first if for no other reason than getting (4 + int)*4 skill points at first level rather than (2 + int)*4 with Fighter levels.

Okay.
How's Soulknife 3/Fighter 4/Soulknife 7?

Edit: You need to be fighter 4 to get specialization in any weapon

eggynack
2013-10-21, 12:08 PM
This build doesn't really work all that well. What are you actually trying to do in combat? Is it just a lot of damage, or some particular style, or what? You should probably just go with a psychic warrior, because psychic warriors are cool. Ditching the weapon focus line is in your best interest, because it's not good, and desert kobold is probably a bad idea as well, though that's less important. If you do go psychic warrior, and if you're seeking out something like a mind blade, soulbound weapon is the way to go (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a). So, yeah. That stuff.

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 12:10 PM
This build doesn't really work all that well. What are you actually trying to do in combat? Is it just a lot of damage, or some particular style, or what? You should probably just go with a psychic warrior, because psychic warriors are cool. Ditching the weapon focus line is in your best interest, because it's not good, and desert kobold is probably a bad idea as well, though that's less important. If you do go psychic warrior, and if you're seeking out something like a mind blade, soulbound weapon is the way to go (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a). So, yeah. That stuff.

I just like to have a kobold (my favorite race) become a viable melee combatant. I do like your suggestion, though.

Edit: Do you have to choose a weapon you're proficient in for the Soulbound Weapon? The wording's kind of vague...

Flickerdart
2013-10-21, 12:20 PM
I would recommend asking your DM about using the 3.0 Soulknife. It's...a lot less awful. Like, really kind of decent.

eggynack
2013-10-21, 12:27 PM
I just like to have a kobold (my favorite race) become a viable melee combatant. I do like your suggestion, though.

Edit: Do you have to choose a weapon you're proficient in for the Soulbound Weapon? The wording's kind of vague...
Neither soulbound weapon itself, nor the power call weaponry gives you proficiency with the weapon. There doesn't seem to be a restriction that says that you can only summon weapons with which you're proficient, though calling non-proficient weapons seems inadvisable. Psychic warriors get martial weapon proficiency though, so that's sufficient for most purposes. Just pick up a guisarme if you want some cool tactical uses for your weapon, or a greatsword if you just want damage. I'd advise the former. As for kobolds, they're pretty bad in general, but it's not a build crippling issue. The lack of strength is tricky on any build that's trying to do actual damage, and wisdom is your secondary stat, because of the bonus power points thing, so that hurts too. It's a pretty important factor at early levels, and a less important factor later on.

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 12:30 PM
Neither soulbound weapon itself, nor the power call weaponry gives you proficiency with the weapon. There doesn't seem to be a restriction that says that you can only summon weapons with which you're proficient, though calling non-proficient weapons seems inadvisable. Psychic warriors get martial weapon proficiency though, so that's sufficient for most purposes. Just pick up a guisarme if you want some cool tactical uses for your weapon, or a greatsword if you just want damage. I'd advise the former. As for kobolds, they're pretty bad in general, but it's not a build crippling issue. The lack of strength is tricky on any build that's trying to do actual damage, and wisdom is your secondary stat, because of the bonus power points thing, so that hurts too. It's a pretty important factor at early levels, and a less important factor later on.

Thanks for the clarafication. Got confused over that for a second.
Calling a small-sized longsword deals 1d6 damage, so I could stick with that (and give it psychokinetic as an early enchantment)

mabriss lethe
2013-10-21, 12:33 PM
Alright.

I'd ditch any significant investment into soulknife. It just doesn't work all that well in most builds. However, it does make a decent entry path into Pyrokeneticist and its web enhancement variants. They can be pretty decent combat classes and their damage output isn't as wholely reliant upon size as other combat styles, fitting a small race fairly well. (Sonokineticist and the Acetokineticist are my favorites.)

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 12:39 PM
Alright.

I'd ditch any significant investment into soulknife. It just doesn't work all that well in most builds. However, it does make a decent entry path into Pyrokeneticist and its web enhancement variants. They can be pretty decent combat classes and their damage output isn't as wholely reliant upon size as other combat styles, fitting a small race fairly well. (Sonokineticist and the Acetokineticist are my favorites.)

So maybe something like Soulknife 2/Psychic Warrior 5/(?)Kineticist ?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2013-10-21, 12:55 PM
If you're going to make a melee Kobold, use the expanded Kobold traits (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), which includes gaining two claws and a bite as natural weapons. It also gives you the Slight Build trait, which allows you to be considered one size category smaller (Tiny size) whenever it would be beneficial.

Take the feat Confound the Big Folk in Races of the Wild. This allows you to gain a significant combat advantage over any creature Medium size or larger whose square you move into. Be sure to get max ranks in Tumble (any class that gets Ride as a class skill can get Tumble instead (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) and remember that you can't use Tumble if you're slowed down by armor or encumbrance. The feat Acrobatic Strike in Player's Handbook II could also be useful on this character.

There's honestly no reason to even consider taking Soulknife unless you're going into Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2), which does not make a good melee character.

mabriss lethe
2013-10-21, 03:05 PM
So maybe something like Soulknife 2/Psychic Warrior 5/(?)Kineticist ?

I should have been more specific. If you're starting out from the premise of a somewhat mundane hit-it-until-it's-dead character, Pyro can give you a decent boost to your damage dealing potential. However, it doesn't really offer anything to a class that already possesses any significant amount of manifesting.

If you're set on being a soulknife, it's a decent way to mount some useful abilities onto a rather bad class. It pretty much gift-wraps all of the Pyro's entry requirements and hands them to you. It won't do much else for it, though. Most of the other melee classes can also shoehorn their way into Pyro with a little more effort. (also, If you are dead set on soulknife and not interested in Soulbow, try to take both of the Minds Eye ACFs for the class. It still won't be great, but it will be...better.)

If you're already planning on taking Psychic warrior, don't bother at all with the SK levels, and probably don't worry with Pyro either. It doesn't offer much that you can't get from your own manifesting.

Red Fel
2013-10-21, 03:31 PM
I just like to have a kobold (my favorite race) become a viable melee combatant. I do like your suggestion, though.

Edit: Do you have to choose a weapon you're proficient in for the Soulbound Weapon? The wording's kind of vague...

Is it that you want your Kobold to become a viable melee combatant, or specifically to become a viable Soulknife or other Psionic melee?

There are a number of ways to go melee that may or may not involve psionics. What is it you want?

Also, in before Dragonwrought.

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 07:00 PM
Is it that you want your Kobold to become a viable melee combatant, or specifically to become a viable Soulknife or other Psionic melee?

There are a number of ways to go melee that may or may not involve psionics. What is it you want?

Also, in before Dragonwrought.

I wanted to make a kobold that was a viable melee combatant. Any suggestions are good, but I started with psionics as a starting point.

Edit: and NO, I don't want to make Pun-Pun.

Red Fel
2013-10-21, 07:30 PM
Well, you haven't suggested any book limitations, so as always, when someone says, "Melee!" I respond, "Tome of Battle?"

ToB will be your friend when it comes to powerful, easy-to-use, ready-out-of-the-box melee classes. Given the fact that a Kobold has roughly the constitution of tissue paper, I would avoid the Crusader (a tanking class if ever oh ever a tank there was), and suggest either Warblade (full BAB, medium armor, Int-based class features) or Swordsage (3/4 BAB, light armor, Wis-based class features).

Given that your little guy will likely be fairly squishy starting out, I'd suggest focusing on maneuvers which increase your mobility, along with counters and boosts to offset your tiny reptilian lack-of-strength.

As a side note, if you wanted to go with Psionics, ToB can make a good base or a good dip. Maneuvers basically add a ton of viable options to any melee build.

Ralcos
2013-10-21, 09:33 PM
Well, you haven't suggested any book limitations, so as always, when someone says, "Melee!" I respond, "Tome of Battle?"

ToB will be your friend when it comes to powerful, easy-to-use, ready-out-of-the-box melee classes. Given the fact that a Kobold has roughly the constitution of tissue paper, I would avoid the Crusader (a tanking class if ever oh ever a tank there was), and suggest either Warblade (full BAB, medium armor, Int-based class features) or Swordsage (3/4 BAB, light armor, Wis-based class features).

Given that your little guy will likely be fairly squishy starting out, I'd suggest focusing on maneuvers which increase your mobility, along with counters and boosts to offset your tiny reptilian lack-of-strength.

As a side note, if you wanted to go with Psionics, ToB can make a good base or a good dip. Maneuvers basically add a ton of viable options to any melee build.

Thanks. I'll look into getting that book so I can look into it.